Joule Thief

[dasimpson]

ok here is my idea a joule thief running off an earth battery to power a pulse moter ok easy enogth i think you will say but how about using the motion of the pulse motor to turn a modified cdrom moter into a dynimo aka 3 phase generator as i see it this would give the higher amps needed for larg battery charging what you think i dont have a clue were to start this for any up for it

[jadaro2600]

ok here is my idea a joule thief running off an earth battery to power a pulse moter ok easy enogth i think you will say but how about using the motion of the pulse motor to turn a modified cdrom moter into a dynimo aka 3 phase generator as i see it this would give the higher amps needed for larg battery charging what you think i dont have a clue were to start this for any up for it

This is correct, a false reading is generated by pulse charging a battery - it only frees the charge in close proximity to the battery's internal electrodes.  It usually only provides breaking down of crystal formation on electrodes and though it may be be good for charging a battery it is good for reviving on that is old in such a way to make it charge better on another device.  Batteries generally require a relatively continuous current to charge.

The amp meter trick will short the battery and give you some idea of the sudden current available.

I think that there is more current available from a battery than is noted.  A 2500mAh battery is rated thus because over the course of one hour it will provide that many milliamps ..it doesn't just 'die' per se, there remains charge available, ... I think one of the things we do here with the Joule Thief is extract energy in shorts bursts of current and thus greatly prolong the expected life of the battery by dividing the current used and stretching it out as much as possible.

If you try to measure the current a JTC is using, you should always put a capacitor across the terminals of the amp meter, preferably an electrolytic.  This smooths out the spikes from current consumption and makes Digital meters more accurate.  There has been discussions on the best way to measure current, but smoothing it out and letting all of it flow through the meter seems most logical.  You would also have to know the leakage current of the capacitor to do a scientific measurement.

One thing to note is the 'peculiar nature of the battery' as I call it; in this way, there is voltage available and low current suitable for powering a simple harmonic oscillator such as the joule thief in resonant inductor-capacitor-resistor style circuits.  In these modes, powering, what I like to call 'voltage oriented' light sources such as LED's CFL, CCFL, Neons, etc. ... there needn't be large quantities of current used, as a result, a JTC can usually run until the voltage at the source is substantially lower that what is technically considered a dead battery ( 90% original voltage ).

I operated one on a 1.5v battery whose charge had fallen to 0.6v.  The selection of components is critical, as the transistors still need to be able to turn on ( therefore, it may be prudent to use special transistors which will cut on at very low voltages, even a MOSFET could be used with additional components to ensure this ).

I believe that the closed loop system may be possible but not yet exploited: the fact remains that such a live circuit may be sustained from some distant source oscillating at some harmonic of the resonance frequency of the closed loop system - this has been discussed on several other threads in/on the forum.

Sorry for the newbe question.... I haven't read all 908 pages in this thread   

My question/s
1: Is this just a step up transformer? I mean, like, does it simply just increase the volts at the sacrifice of amps?
2: If my first question is answered 'no', then why not loop the increased output back to the input thus creating a closed loop system?

see above; also, you can change the number of posts per page displayed in your account settings, ..this seems to make things easier for a lot of us.

The JTC is in fact a step up transformer, in this case, a blocking oscillator, but the many variant circuits demonstrate that very little current is needed in order to do this.  In other words, it is essentially a voltage oriented device.

[dasimpson]

so if we dumped the power from the joule thief thru a bridge rectifire into a capaciter could we then charge a battery i belive if we can get the same mpage out to that going in then popetual motion is acomplished but that fact is we wont ethern more output then input to be able to make use of this

i mean we put 10ma in and get 100ma out we have 90ma to play with something like lights a pulse motor to get grater output etc

This is correct, a false reading in generated by pulse charging a battery - it only frees the charge in close proximity to the battery's internal electrodes.  Batteries generally require a relatively continuous current to charge.

The amp meter trick will short the battery and give you some idea of the sudden current available.

I think that there is more current available from a battery than is noted.  A 2500mAh battery is rated thus because over the course of one hour it will provide that many milliamps ..it doesn't just 'die' per se, there remains charge available, ... I think one of the things we do here with the Joule Thief is extract energy in shorts bursts of current and thus greatly prolong the expected life of the battery by dividing the current used and stretching it out as much as possible

One thing to not is the 'peculiar nature of the battery' as I call it; in this way, there is voltage available and low current suitable for powering a simple harmonic oscillator such as the joule thief in resonant inductor-capacitor-resistor style circuits.  In these modes, powering, what I like to call 'voltage oriented' light sources such as LED's CFL, CCFL, Neons, etc. ... there needn't be large quantities of current used, as a result, a JTC can usually run until the voltage at the source is substantially lower that what is technically considered a dead battery ( 90% original voltage ).

I operated on on a 1.5v battery whose charge had fallen to 0.6v.  The selection of components is critical, as the transistors still need to be able to turn on ( therefore, it may be prudent to use special transistors which will cut on at very low voltages, even a MOSFET could be used with additional components to ensure this ).

I believe that the closed loop system may be possible but not yet exploited: the fact remains that such a live circuit may be sustained from some distant source oscillating at some harmonic of the resonance frequency of the closed loop system - this has been discussed on many threads on the forum.

see above; also, you can change the number of posts per page displayed in your account settings, ..this seems to make things easier for a lot of us.

The JTC is in fact a step up transformer, in this case, a blocking oscillator, but the many variant circuits demonstrate that very little current is needed in order to do this.  In other words, it is essentially a voltage oriented device.

[jadaro2600]

ok here is my idea a joule thief running off an earth battery to power a pulse moter ok easy enogth i think you will say but how about using the motion of the pulse motor to turn a modified cdrom moter into a dynimo aka 3 phase generator as i see it this would give the higher amps needed for larg battery charging what you think i dont have a clue were to start this for any up for it

If you hack up an old CD player, make sure you use a portable one. ..these have the locking mechanisms on their axis which makes it easy to mount a disk as a flywheel.  Also, those motors are usually brushless induction motors - I find these quite difficult to re-use because of the inferior ceramic/mush style magnetic components ( like PC fans ).  The best part of that is the locking mechanism which holds the CD.

If you get ahold of the eye, you can pop off the lens and shine light through it backwards, it creates a very pretty light dislay on the wall ( you'll see the projection of patterns from the glass, it looks like a cymatics diagram ).

so if we dumped the power from the joule thief thru a bridge rectifire into a capaciter could we then charge a battery i belive if we can get the same mpage out to that going in then popetual motion is acomplished but that fact is we wont ethern more output then input to be able to make use of this

i mean we put 10ma in and get 100ma out we have 90ma to play with something like lights a pulse motor to get grater output etc

gadgetmall has been working on this, he has circuits which do this ( they are arguable, but work in various fashions though ) ..his proposed methods are still being honed, check the applications for overunity section, you may find more information there.

[dasimpson]

well i was thinking of makeing a unit i have a floppy cd motor here that is 3phase now from my windmill investigations i can changhe the 3phase output to single phase the motor was just a idea as they are very flat and would well make easy baring and fly wheel points but i just thoght mabe a hd motor might do better but think the rpm of that moter to get out what would go in be to high i guess rewinding the stature for a les rpm might be best but that is beyond my knoladge
i come up with lots if ideas just no way to implerment and try them

[A author=jadaro2600 link=topic=6123.msg243290#msg243290 date=1275498344]
If you hack up an old CD player, make sure you use a portable one. ..these have the locking mechanisms on their axis which makes it easy to mount a disk as a flywheel.  Also, those motors are usually brushless induction motors - I find these quite difficult to re-use because of the inferior ceramic/mush style magnetic components ( like PC fans ).  The best part of that is the locking mechanism which holds the CD.
[/quote]