Timing and Hydrogen ICE fuel

[magifesq]

Here's what I've got right now on my Vehicle -
*Hydrogen Generator with PWM circuit / device.  I've had one on each of my 2 vehicles for the last year and I'm getting  0 - 10% increased fuel economy, sometimes losing fuel economy (presumably the combination of HHO and Gas being burned raises the exhaust temp and causes the computer to dump more fuel in the mix) 
As I develop this system I discover additional information such as retarding the timing to TDC.
My vehicle factory spec timing is around 16 degrees before TDC.  Right now I don't have the extra cash for a racing engineered timing control unit with in dash controller, so I think back to simple ICE dynamics - spark plug gap fine tunes igntion timing - smaller than oem gap - more advance than factory specs, bigger than oem gap - more timing retard than factory specs (because the spark takes longer to travel over the distance).
Here's the problem with doing this to a gasoline engine - too small of a gap and the timing is too far advanced and you run the risk of pre-ignition / detonation or not running at all.  Too big of a gap and the reverse happens - too inefficient of a burn or the engine will not run at all.  I could be wrong, but this is my general understanding.
I drive about 300 miles back and forth to work in any give week, so I'll post results of this improvement next week.
Others have added EIFE, MAP sensor and O2 sensor modifications.  My goal is 100% HHO / Water fueled engine, so in the end I won't be needing those sensors anyways I'll just need the computer to keep the engine running.

[Paul-R]

As I develop this system I discover additional information such as retarding the timing to TDC.

Hydroxy burns very rapidly indeed. Therefore correct ignition retarding is vital. Try this:
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter10.pdf
Paul.

[Creativity]

hmm it is many factors that play along.First of all type of ignition system.Spark plug gap is a very important factor in engine performance,fuel efficiency and behaviour over rpm's.Gap will have more influence on combustion process itself rather than timing.For example u cannot expect plug with smaller gap to fire(advance timing) before there is electricity supplied to it.What u can expect is that i will fire somehow faster because it needs now less voltage to ionize the gap.Just how much faster depends on the voltage rising curve on the output of ignitor.I would expect it to be unsubstantial difference from original gap setting.The same in the other direction(retarding) u cannot expect plug to fire when there is no electricity on it supplied from ignitor/

Smaller spark plug gap can cause pre-ignition or/and detonation leading to engine damage in hard cases(or the CPU will sense it by detonation sensor and will advance ignition timing leaving u with lower economy and worse performance).Advanced timing will cause ur sparkplug tips to get hotter,retarding to get cooler(so type of the plug will possibly have to be changed or it will wear off faster/clog with carbon residues) Too much gap can result in a higher rate of misfires noticeable loss of power and poor economy.Bigger spark gap needs higher voltage,that is especially true under high load and high rev's.Also higher voltage will get ur spark life decrease significantly.Bigger gap will put more problems with engine starting(so u need to spend more electricity to start it up->u will have to use extra fuel to recharge the battery).

Some of this statements are true for old cars with distributor ignitors,some of them won't stay true for electronic ignitors.Anyhow i won't to make u sensitive that spark plug is not the best place to search for timing adjustments,because u may end up with cancelling of all benefits u aim to achieve.If u want to have expected results u have to play it professional way,wen u will go full HHO nothing will save u from remapping.

Adjusting static timing is not even half of the way..The whole map of ignition has to be adjusted to the new conditions.Ok i don't want to rewrite what i wrote before in other posts around here:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4424.0


PS it is EFIE not EIFE.

[magifesq]

Good Reading.  I'm sure you're correct that these efi/ecu setups are more complicated to adapt than carburetor cdi setups.  I'll make a system to fit my Honda VT1100 and work the timing from the pulse coil to see how much the bike is affected by the HHO gas.  I know this - after the spark plug gap modification my truck will not start or run without the hydrogen, however when I unplug the fuel rail sub harness the whole truck dies.  Is there perhaps a safety device in the fuel system or the electronics that shuts the whole engine down if unplugged or if too much pressure is in the lines?

[Hydro-Cell]

hi guys

i have a generator that runs on pure hho. its timing is not far from the manufacturers setup due to the way i feed it the gas.

first off be aware that generators have no computer, sensors etc.

the generators i build have a basic electronic timing circuit, this allows me 360 degree control of the timing so i can literally make it spark whenever i want.
the gas is fed with an lpg carb, this carb basically opens a small valve when it gets good airflow, more airflow = more fuel.

by setting the pressure of the storage chamber to 30psi this gives me a very good pressure to the engine and allows for timing etc

the engine is fed a 15psi @ 12lpm this amount of gas works out to about an 80:1 air/fuel ratio.


this ratio allows the engine to remain cooler whilst keeping its near origional timing.

i am currently in the process of converting a smart car to run on hydrogen along the same concept as the generaor. i will be getting rid of the injectors and lambda sensor as they will be made redundant but the rest of the engine should remain active.

i can see no reason why a remap should have to be carried out as long as tweaked to each engine, i have figured that if you want to adapt an engine to run on hydrogen then use of compressed gas or lpg system is great.