Knitel's InfinityPump

[sushimoto]

stefan,

again i see you have avoided me.  have you read my post with the numbers yet?  even if you think i am full of s**t, please acknowledge.  what more do you want?
if i should rewrite my post, i will.  if you give me your sizes for the parts you use, i'll reference them.

as you know from my position in the E.L.S.A. thread, i am not a naysayer.  i am the first to be happy if something works.  this one just can not the way it is given.

TALK TO ME!!

tom

Hi Tom,
I already asked all these question one week ago (Friday 13th:).
Since then, i have not seen any serious calculations from Archimedes.

In the original Thread, were the original Idea came from Gravitator.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6660.30

Now, suddenly its "Knitel's pump" and this is the best place to get ignored by egocentric people.

Never mind, a good thing has been born and that is what counts.

best,
sushi

[wizkycho]

Hi Tom,
I already asked all these question one week ago (Friday 13th:).
Since then, i have not seen any serious calculations from Archimedes.

In the original Thread, were the original Idea came from Gravitator.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6660.30

Now, suddenly its "Knitel's pump" and this is the best place to get ignored by egocentric people.

Never mind, a good thing has been born and that is what counts.

best,
sushi

@all

Every now and then I gave bouyancy a tought as the mechanism that can do "it"...(haven't we all)  I allways stumboled on completing circle. Gravitrons idea has nothing to do with bouyancy and that is 60 to 70% of (50% path and 10% to 20% of defining properties of weight)..InfinityPump. So please call it Knitel's InfinityPump cause I made it as whole possible or call it Knitel-Gravitron's InfinityPump or Archimedes InfinityPump cause he is the guy that made it start in a first place.
Without Gravitron threre would be no sucction part... I added weight's lighter then water properties and let it do it's bouayncy and closed the circle...from this point of view anyone could have done it...(well except Tom and Hans)
but indeed I done it...and I still can not believe it is afterall that plain.

So it is called Knitel's InfinityPump...because 60%-70% and closing the loop is done by that fabulous, wonderfull, brilliant, careing, goodlooking, civilized, magicall, explorer, brain stormer, extraordinary mind, protector of weak, justfull, leader, strong carrisma,with prodigy, dexterity, agility,...what to say then perfect...

the very same Knitel Igor

Wiz

[tbird]

hi wiz,

my numbers are from -infinity to +infinity and that is range in which this device works

i understand this, but we first have to show 1 size working so it can be scaled from there.

You haven't given any real numbers or equations because, according to what you tried to explain pumping in any existing todays device is impossible.
You gave false numbers without diaemters, without density, without volumes

not true.  my post was full of numbers.  it's not that i think it can not pump using the weights, it's because if you have the weight volume large enough to float, there will not be any room left for a stroke (up & down).

]...please can you comment my last animation and picture with Many weights cause I commented your numbers allready three times...[/

if we make it work, that will be a clever way to scale it up.

I made this last picture cause you claim that weight and no matter of its ammount "suspended" in air can not make underpreassure and make water go up.

not true.  this can pump/syphon water as long as it has room to travel (stroke).

Allso with Your numbers you claimed that diameter of input pipe doesn't matter.
We eventually agreed that diameter counts...

you still seem to be confused here.  if the cylinder/piston diameter is the same size as the input tube diameter, then the weight of the piston/weight only has to be a little heavier than the weight of the water in the tube.  if you increase the area (diameter) of the cylinder/piston and leave the tube the same, then you have to add weight to the piston/weight.  for every square unit you add, you have to add the amount equal to the square unit of the tube.  from there you can increase the tube diameter (up to the cylinder/piston diameter) without adding more weight to the piston/weight.

so I lefted diameter constant and added 3 more weights and they can now be 3 times lighter (boyancy per each easier) and still be as whole heavier then initiall one and therefore more destin to be able to pump.

this is just scaling up.  but all parts of the added units have to use the same relationships as the first.  these extra assy don't change the over all design other than create more output.
just like when you add cylinders/pistons to you internal combustion engines.  these extra units don't effect the principle of the internal combustion engine.  one is enough to show how it works.

would be nice if you would take one picture and make some arrow on it to point where exactly do you see problem in operation.[/b

the problem that i point to is the fact the piston/weight has to displace so much water for its given size, it leaves no room for a stroke.  if it can't move, it can't work.


thanks for your patience and allowing me the chance to explain.

i'll be working on a "numbers" page for stefan.  maybe when posted, you will see the detail i'm trying to get across.

tom

[tbird]

hi stefan,

i think i found where you are going wrong.

So the weight must only be heavier than 15.7 Kg to suck up the water through the
pipe...

this is not a 100% true.  from your first set of givens, you said the tube would have 1 cm2 (not 1 cm diameter).  so for your above statement to be true, the swimmer can not exceed 6.369 cm2.  did that turn on a light?

the 100kg isn't applied to just the 1 cm2 of the tube unless the swimmer is only 1 cm2.  it is divided over the intire area evenly.  so if you have a 100 cm2 swimmer, your weight would have to be 100 x 15.7kg (tube area 1 cm2) = 1570 kg.  much more volume (and mass) than 100kg.

i'm sure you want to tell me i'm wrong here and i don't need to go on so i will stop.  but this point is what hans was trying to get you to learn by studying.

tom

[PhiScience]

Hi,

When working with hydraulics you must use the correct formulas to base your answers on.

5 meter of head = 0.499 871 996 66 kilogram-force/square centimeter.

This may help  http://www.onlineconversion.com/pressure.htm

Wayne