Howard Johnson Replication Tube Claim

[TinselKoala]

Without commenting on the rest of this, I'm just wondering why otherwise seemingly intellegent people make statements about "newbie" status, number of posts, etc. as if that means _anything_ significant to any particular discussion?

From a psycological point of view, I'm guessing that it has something to do with or related to a sense of "status within a community" and/or pack-mentality and/or assumed pecking-order within the group (or something).  Or (in some cases) maybe just general paranioa ("hmm... I bet that's so-n-so, using a new account!") - which may or may not be warranted in any particular instance.

Since I'm a "newbie" as well, does that mean I was born yesterday?  That I probably don't have anything usefull to add?  That I'm probably lying about whatever it is I do say?  That my opinions are less valid than someone with "hero" status?  Seriously?  ~ baffling ~

Just for the record, the first time I viewed an OverUnity.com web page was a week (10 days?) or so ago.  At which time, I spent time reading this entire forum/threads related to the Mylow project.  So while I admittedly don't know the entire on-going history (drama) of all the players involved on the entire site and various other projects (both valid and false-claims), I did follow this particular project for a week or so before signing up to post my observation of the "potential" motive (ie. the "Shiloh Prophecy"), because it seemed like the next logical step was to wonder "why" he was faking results and noone had yet mentioned that aspect at the time.

Anyway, I'm not claiming any particular expertise/knowledge on my part - as I mentioned in a previous post, I'm basically just a casual/interested observer - I'm just baffled whenever someone plays the "newbie" card to discredit someone (noone's done it to me here, but it's been done multiple times to others in this thread).

It's a "street cred" kind of thing, nothing more really. Just a dig because so many noobs jump into a thread without putting their suits on, so to speak...
Like it doesn't matter how big and bad you are, if you are the new kid on the block you've got to kick some butt before anyone will pay attention to you.
Don't worry about it, keep posting, that's part of the initiation, I think.

[TinselKoala]

TK

From HJ, regarding the strength of poles and the Al bar experiment:

http://www.cheniere.org/books/HoJo/new_page_31.htm

Thanks.

"The north element (vortex) is dominant, and has proven to be the stronger vortex with higher gauss ratings." (sic)

Is there a peer-reviewed reference on this claim that I can look up and read, or are we depending on HJ's experimental methodology for this?

Take 4 identical magnets. Pair them off, stack them in tubes vertically and repusively. So 2 tubes each with 2 magnets. One pair N poles facing, the other pair S poles facing. Measure the separation. Pair the magnets the other ways (I get 4 possible combinations to test) and measure the separation. If the N pole is stronger than the S pole, the repulsion height for the N-N pairs should be greater than the height for the S-S pairs. Or v-v.

Shouldn't it?

[Psyclone]

It's a "street cred" kind of thing, nothing more really. Just a dig because so many noobs jump into a thread without putting their suits on, so to speak...
Like it doesn't matter how big and bad you are, if you are the new kid on the block you've got to kick some butt before anyone will pay attention to you.
Don't worry about it, keep posting, that's part of the initiation, I think.

I appreciate the honest response, but isn't it ironic that several members here, while touting the 'quality' of this site often invoke the "free speech!" card?  Does the free speech only apply to those with the "proper street cred" on this site? 

I think that goes directly to what the poster above was trying to point out - there's a fair amount of (unecessary) bullying that takes place here - not that other forums (every other existing forum/community) don't have the exact same issues, of course - but it's worth pointing out every now and then.

[jibbguy]

Welcome jfhoss.

This is perhaps not the best time to come i'm afraid. But it will likely calm down again soon.

Don't be discouraged, there is much to learn here despite the current situation!

To briefly summarize what happened and what the fuss is all about...

Back in early March "Mylow" posted You-Tube videos of a supposedly working Howard R. Johnson motor... Almost exactly 30 years after the April, 1979 awarding of the major and first HJ Patent for the design.

... But the "current" or "latest" (and presumably "last") version of the mylow motor was found to be operated by fishing line attached to a DC motor: A clear and obvious fake (once it was pointed out to everyone, anyway).

There is still some remaining controversy regarding the earliest "Stonehenge" model from March (which had "U"-shaped channel magnets on the rotor instead of flat bar magnets as the later ones did), which some are saying was actually "valid" ; and was then suppressed by the government who then supposedly forced mylow to deliberately falsify the later versions under their orders and threats. This also appears to be his story now (or at least his twin brother's).

This of course is highly speculative, as there is nothing to back it (and the 2 or 3 known serious replications of that first rotor channel magnet design done by people here did not work either; over a period of about 3 weeks of trying), and there is of course the conclusive proof of later fraud which frankly makes it rather hard for people to accept anything having to do with Mylow now. And of course no one was ever allowed to see the device working in person: Despite dozens here and other places calling loudly and repeatedly for independent verifications to happen.

... And BTW, this fakery would also makes it hard to accept any of the technical information disseminated; such as "magnetizing orientations" (in other words in the original design, how were the stator mags actually supposed to be magnetized, "front to back", or "side to side"?). None of that information is "trustworthy" now, and anyone who was attempting a channel mag "Stonehenge" replication in the future would need to try both to be sure, i suppose.

Unfortunately, there appear to be no "High Res" vids available for the early Stonehenge design videos, making it apparently impossible to determine if string was used there too, since they are too low in resolution to pick out very thin and translucent fishing line (...thus the continued controversy in the face of proofs of later fraud). Only after the "obviously faked" motor came out, did the High-Resolution videos become available. Many people are saying he faked those early ones too, perhaps using different methods, but that appears inconclusive as well at least so far (but it is the prevailing opinion at this point, as you may have noticed).

So again, like this entire exercise, we are left with "belief" lol... Could the government have "forced" the later fakes to discredit and suppress, or not? If it was all "fake", were mylow and his brother working alone... Or was it all an elaborate plan somehow, done by "agents unknown", possibly to discredit the Open Source community, or for some other, yet unseen reason?

Hopefully the lesson of independent verifications being ABSOLUTELY REQUIRED before moving ahead will remain as the legacy for this episode.

[TinselKoala]

I appreciate the honest response, but isn't it ironic that several members here, while touting the 'quality' of this site often invoke the "free speech!" card?  Does the free speech only apply to those with the "proper street cred" on this site? 

I think that goes directly to what the poster above was trying to point out - there's a fair amount of (unecessary) bullying that takes place here - not that other forums (every other existing forum/community) don't have the exact same issues, of course - but it's worth pointing out every now and then.

I agree, and just like with bullies on the street or in the office, if you are intimidated by them you lose. You've got to stand up and give as good as you get, without falling down into their mindset.
There have been some moderator deletions for ideological reasons and I strongly object to that. Edits for pure trollism or foulness I wholeheartedly endorse--after a specific warning so what's not tolerated is known clearly.
IMHO.