What makes Perpetual wheel attempts not work?

[mondrasek]

Grayone,

AB is covering the practical, so here is some simplified theory.

Gravity is an acceleration field (NOT a Force).  It is also highly uniform, meaning it is always in the same direction and magnitude, within a reasonable space.  This acceleration field acts upon mass to create a Force since Force = mass x acceleration (F = ma).  If you take any mass at a location close to the Earth's surface, the acceleration of gravity combines with it to produce a force.  This force will drive the object towards the center of the Earth's mass.  So objects fall if dropped or push down on whatever surface that supports them.  If we move that object to the left, right, up, or down, it experiences the same Force due to the acceleration of gravity.  (The last statement is only true for relatively small distances.  Moving away from the surface of the Earth to say the orbit of the moon does decrease the apparent acceleration due to gravity.  Also, moving left until you are on the other side of the Earth will give you a force in the opposite direction, but still towards the center of the Earth.  But for the purposes of building a gravity wheel of normal scale, the acceleration field is uniform in strength and direction.)

The simplest way to extract energy from the force of gravity acting on a mass is to allow the mass to accelerate towards the Earth.  That motion can do work, like lift another object through a pulley.  Or generate electricity by spinning a wheel.  But in each and every case the falling mass can generate only a specific amount of energy while falling, ie. turning with the wheel from the top of the wheel to the bottom.  That amount of energy is known as the Potential Energy and is directly related to the magnitude of the mass and the distance of the drop from top to bottom.  And that amount of energy that can be gained due to the acceleration of gravity is the same whether the mass falls straight down, turns on the path of a wheel, or takes any other path.  But once it has fallen, the mass has no potential energy.  The only way to get more energy out of it is to raise it back to the top of the wheel.  And raising it takes exactly the same amount of energy as it generated when falling the first time.  Again, the path (straight, circular, or any other) makes no difference.

A wheel with equal mass on both sides will not spin because the force on both sides is equal.  This generates zero Torque.  Torque = Force x distance (from center of the wheel to the center of every mass, horizontally only).  You add torques from all mass on a wheel to see if you have any left over by assigning a + or - sign to clockwise and counterclockwise.  So if we say clockwise is +, we add all the torques due to mass that want to make the wheel spin clockwise, and then subtract all the torques due to mass that make the wheel want to spin counterclockwise.  If a wheel does not spinning (and has no holding brake), the torque on it is zero.

So to get a gravity wheel to spin we need to have a total Torque due to mass that is not zero: one side must always have more Force due to gravity than the other.  Since F = ma, we only have three choices.  The mass must always be less on one side, the acceleration due to gravity must always be less on one side, or we need to introduce some other Force.  So far, modern man has not been able to do either of these first two things.  Adding another force is easy: just hook it up to a motor.  But that takes more energy than you produce and is not perpetual motion.

The question for gravity wheel builders is "How do I move a mass from the bottom of the wheel to the top using less force than F = ma?"  Without antigravity it would appear impossible.  But I personally question if it is impossible in light of the reports of Bessler.

Man has been using Gravity Wheels for many generations.  But they are not perpetual, per se.  A simple example is a water wheel, which works on the same basic principal as every modern hydroelectric power station.  Water falls from higher up to lower down due to the acceleration of gravity acting on its mass.  The water spins a wheel or turbine.  In this case the water is moved back up again by the energy input from the sun.  The sun heats and evaporates water that then becomes less dense than air, causing it to rise.  When it cools again, it will eventually fall back to Earth as rain or snow.  A portion of that rain and snow falls to Earth higher than the hydroelectric power station and will again fall through the turbine and repeat this cycle.

M.

[AB Hammer]

Grayone,

AB is covering the practical, so here is some simplified theory.

Gravity is an acceleration field (NOT a Force).  It is also highly uniform, meaning it is always in the same direction and magnitude, within a reasonable space.  This acceleration field acts upon mass to create a Force since Force = mass x acceleration (F = ma).  If you take any mass at a location close to the Earth's surface, the acceleration of gravity combines with it to produce a force.  This force will drive the object towards the center of the Earth's mass.  So objects fall if dropped or push down on whatever surface that supports them.  If we move that object to the left, right, up, or down, it experiences the same Force due to the acceleration of gravity.  (The last statement is only true for relatively small distances.  Moving away from the surface of the Earth to say the orbit of the moon does decrease the apparent acceleration due to gravity.  Also, moving left until you are on the other side of the Earth will give you a force in the opposite direction, but still towards the center of the Earth.  But for the purposes of building a gravity wheel of normal scale, the acceleration field is uniform in strength and direction.)

The simplest way to extract energy from the force of gravity acting on a mass is to allow the mass to accelerate towards the Earth.  That motion can do work, like lift another object through a pulley.  Or generate electricity by spinning a wheel.  But in each and every case the falling mass can generate only a specific amount of energy while falling, ie. turning with the wheel from the top of the wheel to the bottom.  That amount of energy is known as the Potential Energy and is directly related to the magnitude of the mass and the distance of the drop from top to bottom.  And that amount of energy that can be gained due to the acceleration of gravity is the same whether the mass falls straight down, turns on the path of a wheel, or takes any other path.  But once it has fallen, the mass has no potential energy.  The only way to get more energy out of it is to raise it back to the top of the wheel.  And raising it takes exactly the same amount of energy as it generated when falling the first time.  Again, the path (straight, circular, or any other) makes no difference.

A wheel with equal mass on both sides will not spin because the force on both sides is equal.  This generates zero Torque.  Torque = Force x distance (from center of the wheel to the center of every mass, horizontally only).  You add torques from all mass on a wheel to see if you have any left over by assigning a + or - sign to clockwise and counterclockwise.  So if we say clockwise is +, we add all the torques due to mass that want to make the wheel spin clockwise, and then subtract all the torques due to mass that make the wheel want to spin counterclockwise.  If a wheel does not spinning (and has no holding brake), the torque on it is zero.

So to get a gravity wheel to spin we need to have a total Torque due to mass that is not zero: one side must always have more Force due to gravity than the other.  Since F = ma, we only have three choices.  The mass must always be less on one side, the acceleration due to gravity must always be less on one side, or we need to introduce some other Force.  So far, modern man has not been able to do either of these first two things.  Adding another force is easy: just hook it up to a motor.  But that takes more energy than you produce and is not perpetual motion.

The question for gravity wheel builders is "How do I move a mass from the bottom of the wheel to the top using less force than F = ma?"  Without antigravity it would appear impossible.  But I personally question if it is impossible in light of the reports of Bessler.

Man has been using Gravity Wheels for many generations.  But they are not perpetual, per se.  A simple example is a water wheel, which works on the same basic principal as every modern hydroelectric power station.  Water falls from higher up to lower down due to the acceleration of gravity acting on its mass.  The water spins a wheel or turbine.  In this case the water is moved back up again by the energy input from the sun.  The sun heats and evaporates water that then becomes less dense than air, causing it to rise.  When it cools again, it will eventually fall back to Earth as rain or snow.  A portion of that rain and snow falls to Earth higher than the hydroelectric power station and will again fall through the turbine and repeat this cycle.

M.

mondrasek

I take my hat off to you. You have the gift of gab and a very good gift indeed. As a Blacksmith I tend to talk simple. And if I get this wheel working, that I am working on. I may need you for public speaking. If you can speak as good as you write, or help write my speeches for me. But you will have to compete with Fletcher who is also very gifted. 

[iacob alex]

        Hi Greyone!

  Don't worry,about the "correct direction" : if your first step,will be on the line of Newton's First Law (Inertia),everything will be allright.

  The second step can be,to play inertia in such a way,to realize an asymmetric action-reaction arrangement with regard to a vertical reference line through the fulcrum

  So,in two words: play inertia.

                                                                 All the Bests!  /  Alex 

[Yortuk Festrunk]

I will give you an important clue to making a working gravity engine.

It must use symmetry to attain asymmetry, then that asymmetry must return the system to it's original symmetry, though in the opposite orientation.

Then the cycle can continue from there.

I will soon share a totally new concept that uses this principal for a working system.

[hansvonlieven]

Man has been using Gravity Wheels for many generations.  But they are not perpetual, per se.  A simple example is a water wheel, which works on the same basic principal as every modern hydroelectric power station.  Water falls from higher up to lower down due to the acceleration of gravity acting on its mass.  The water spins a wheel or turbine.  In this case the water is moved back up again by the energy input from the sun.  The sun heats and evaporates water that then becomes less dense than air, causing it to rise.  When it cools again, it will eventually fall back to Earth as rain or snow.  A portion of that rain and snow falls to Earth higher than the hydroelectric power station and will again fall through the turbine and repeat this cycle.

M.

That makes a waterwheel a heat engine, not a gravity motor !

Gravity is only one of its components, the thing that makes it work is heat.

Hans von Lieven