Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant

[i_ron]

@i_ron,

Therefore, the question is irrelevant, as long as the classical mechanics equations are applied correctly. In other words you may question the model, the way the equations of classical mechanics are applied to make the predictions but not question the fact that classical mechanics, correctly applied, can predict the behavior of mechanical systems before an actual laboratory experiment.

Excellent rebuttal, points well taken.  Perhaps the bottom line
here then is... in the one month and two days that this list has been operational, and simulations have been stressed...
where is the answer as to whether the wheel works or not?

Kind regards,

Ron

[Omnibus]

Excellent rebuttal, points well taken.  Perhaps the bottom line
here then is... in the one month and two days that this list has been operational, and simulations have been stressed...
where is the answer as to whether the wheel works or not?

Kind regards,

Ron

Unfortunately, no answer yet. On my part one of the reasons is that I'm new to these simulations and have no experience with them whatsoever. I learned about wm2d just about a month ago and even sooner the revelation from @Jubjub came about that 3ds max reactor can do a 3D simulations. Unfortunately, this important research is left in the hands of inexperienced people like myself and the infrastructures whose job is to do them won't touch such simulations with a ten foot pole. Why? We all know why. A positive outcome from this will destroy them to the core. What we're doing is as much anti-business as it can get.

On a side note, wonder if you've heard about the Swedish pirate party which is gaining more and more political ground there. It's support has grown in the last months from close to zero to about 4% mainly among the young voters. One of the things they ask for is to have the patents on certain creations abolished. The area we're doing research in should be one of those where there should be no patents and expectations to get rich through exploiting society. Those who think that the outcome of this research can be turned into a profitable business are badly mistaken. These fellows, such as Sterling, may finagle to earn some crumbs now but in the long run, should this be proven to be real, it will revamp society in a way we can't even imagine now, leaving no grounds to continue to have some enrich themselves at the expense of others mainly through lies and manipulations. No wonder why this had been suppressed for so many centuries.

[mondrasek]

Excellent rebuttal, points well taken.  Perhaps the bottom line
here then is... in the one month and two days that this list has been operational, and simulations have been stressed...
where is the answer as to whether the wheel works or not?

With all due respect to Omnibus, I would say that the simulations show the Abeling wheel to be a non-runner.  The simulation of the designs as discovered from the video and later from the patent have failed to show a wheel that operates as described that produces useful torque.  In fact, most well constructed simulations behaved exactly like a balanced wheel, as can be predicted by both physics and the sims.  Several sims have shown unusual behavior, most having been shown due to improper modeling techniques, but none yet have shown anything close to a power generating ability.

Now there is still the possibility that something has been missed or purposefully withheld from the patent.  If so, I am confident that when those other elements are properly added to the sims they will again show a respectable representation of a real life device, either working or not.

One point with regards to the comments about simulations used in air/spacecraft design:  The equations that govern fluid dynamics (particle interactions) are much more complex than those of basic mechanics.  Many are unsolvable except by iteration, and as such, approximations must be used.  The actual wind tunnel and flight testing is used to verify real world operation as well as improve those necessary approximations.  That is not the case with basic mechanics where equations like F=ma and T=md are absolute.  Solving them gives exact and true results that do not then need to be verified by real world testing.  But even those equations do not take into account the minor real world effects of friction and air resistance encountered by a working mechanism than again are governed by much more complex equations.  So the real world build will be necessary to exactly understand those effects.  But the major interactions and performance can be correctly predicted by (good) simulations.

[Omnibus]

@mondrasek,

We really have to sort this out. I said it already but I'll repeat it here -- are we trying to determine whether or not such device is real in principle or we're doing these simulations just to satisfy the critics and prove through simulations that such devices are inherently non-working. If the latter is our goal and we're set to impose any conditions to achieve that, we can easily prove also that no machine whatsoever is working. I think, however, that our goal is the former and regarding the answer to that the jury is still out. Firstly, if we're talking about ideal devices whereby the friction is zero and only the construction and gravity are at play, I think we have definitively proven such devices are working. That you can't deny. Where's the limit to imposing friction on such devices so that they can be realistic is still to be determined. Like I said, our goal isn't to make them non-working at any rate (which we can do for any machine) but to find out the boundaries whereby a working ideal device becomes a real-life working device. There's more work to be done to reach the answer to that. Recall, I was suggesting that the best way to do that is to find out whether or not there can be analytical solutions at all. Simulations are second best choice for that purpose.

As for fluid dynamics, while it's true that it's more complex to model such systems there are certain firmly established laws and approaches which make the outcome physically predictable even prior to actual lab experiments in fluid dynamics too. Engineers use every day Stokes' law or Nusselt and Reynolds numbers, let alone the empirical formulae, to name a few in constructing their reactors on paper, the way civil engineers apply their set in stone mechanical formulae. Indeed, approximations are made but they are all within the framework of known, predictive physical laws. The approximations are to find out what, say, the coefficients in a formula describing a concrete physical situation are but are hardly yielding anything new in terms of new mechanical or physical laws. If something is found out in this way that contradicts the established laws of physics then it is counted as a discovery and not as just an engineering solution of a problem. This happens very rarely and is a noticeable event, not just a routine everyday engineering work.

[Omnibus]

@mondrasek,

Speaking of simulations, were you able to take a look at @Jubjub's 3D simulation using 3ds Max reactor? Your input would be very valuable.