THERMODYNAMICS WILL NOT APPLY FOR A ALL MAGNET MOTOR

[tournamentdan]

Rare Earth magnets have a high resistance to demagnetization, unlike most other types of magnets. They will not lose their magnetization around other magnets or if dropped. They will however, begin to lose strength if they are heated above their maximum operating temperature, which is 176°F (80°C) for standard N grades.  They will completely lose their magnetization if heated above their Curie temperature, which is 590°F (310°C) for standard N grade. Rare Earth magnets will not use or lose energy if other magnets are close therefor the potential energy is in the resistance of the magnets pushing off of each other. The only energy in which a magnet motor will make is kinetic and it will not consume the kinetic energy.  What ever you intend to drive with the motor will use some of the kinetic energy.

[tournamentdan]

Look at magnetism as a form of potential energy. It has been used energy to magnetize the magnet. The magnet stays in that "position" permanently - or at least are demagnetized very slowly.

It is just like charging a capacitor. The voltage stays there for ever unless you decharge it.

I am sorry Q but you are way off on this line of thinking. Yes you put energy into a rare earth magnet to make it, but that magnet will not consume that energy to push another mag away. It only consumes energy so it can stay a magnet, and at a very slow rate, one percent per ten years. So the potential energy is not inside the magnet but it is the resistance between two or more rare earth magnets. That is also why a magnet motor will never be labled as a perpetual motion machine because it will eventually loose it's strength a couple hundred years down the line. Which is good enough for me.

[utilitarian]

                                                                                                                               I am sorry Q but you are way off on this line of thinking. Yes you put energy into a rare earth magnet to make it, but that magnet will not consume that energy to push another mag away. It only consumes energy so it can stay a magnet, and at a very slow rate, one percent per ten years. So the potential energy is not inside the magnet but it is the resistance between two or more rare earth magnets. That is also why a magnet motor will never be labled as a perpetual motion machine because it will eventually loose it's strength a couple hundred years down the line. Which is good enough for me.

No, you completely missed Low-Q's point.  He is not saying that by attracting a ferrous object, the magnet will lose magnetism.  He is saying that it is not possible to draw energy from a permanent magnet motor unless there is demagnetization of the permanent magnets.

[Liberty]

                                                                                                                               I am sorry Q but you are way off on this line of thinking. Yes you put energy into a rare earth magnet to make it, but that magnet will not consume that energy to push another mag away. It only consumes energy so it can stay a magnet, and at a very slow rate, one percent per ten years. So the potential energy is not inside the magnet but it is the resistance between two or more rare earth magnets. That is also why a magnet motor will never be labled as a perpetual motion machine because it will eventually loose it's strength a couple hundred years down the line. Which is good enough for me.

I can find no proof that when a magnet is created, that it retains a charge or any energy from an external source.  What occurs is the magnetic particles are aligned within the magnet, and the energy that was used to "magnetize" the magnet did not store within the magnet.  How do we know this?  Notice what magnetic poles are applied to the new magnet during the magnetization process.  Does the same pole form, or the opposite pole to allow a flux path and particle alignment?  I think you will find that the opposite pole forms.  Use a piece of iron and a permanent magnet and test it out.  If the same pole formed and stayed, it would be acting like a battery charging or a capacitor.  But this is clearly not the case.  Particle alignment occurred to create the magnet.  The magnet therefore can not demagnetize but only become misaligned.

[tournamentdan]

No, you completely missed Low-Q's point.  He is not saying that by attracting a ferrous object, the magnet will lose magnetism.  He is saying that it is not possible to draw energy from a permanent magnet motor unless there is demagnetization of the permanent magnets.

NO I get his and your point which no matter how you put it is completely wrong. Stop thinking that once you use energy to make the magnet you can some how tap into it and use it. Two magnets pushing away from each other will not consume any energy from both magnets, it will only create kinetic energy once they start moving, so the potential energy is not inside the magnet once it is a magnet,but it is in the Resistance of two or more magnets pushing away from each other.