Are Tommey Reed´s pulse motor circuits overunity ?

[gotoluc]

Hi powercat and everyone,

thanks for the invitation cat ... I read the topic from the beginning as I found Tommey's videos a little confusing ...from what I can see and understand at this time he is basically collecting the collapsing field in a cap from a coil that is being sharply turned on and off (basically next to no pulse duration) by DC from a battery using a MOSFET as switch. He mention Resonance in a few videos but somehow I don't get the feeling his coil goes into Resonance from the little I understand about Resonance. As mention in a few posts already we also need to know that using a DVM or AVM to measure Pulsed DC (hi speed on off) from a battery or even worse, from the coil side will not give an true reading.

I really admire Tommey Reed's dedication, sharing, enthusiasm and his understanding of the problems in our World. However I believe he maybe a little too much ahead on building a large prototype model based on meter measurements. If someone has a communication with him I would suggest a few very simple tests. One is to use 2 identical 12 volt automotive bulbs, one is connected is Series on one of the  battery leads and the other is connected in parallel to his collection capacitor. If the bulb is brighter at the capacitor then the battery then he may have something. He would now need to make the next test to determine for sure he has overunity. Use 2 identical capacitors of 30,000uf minimum, charge one capacitor with the battery and use it as feed instead of the battery and connect the other capacitor (drained) as collector cap but no load on it. Start his circuit and monitor the voltage of the collection cap. If the voltage exceeded the input cap voltage them he has Overunity.

Hope this helps.

Luc



   

[amigo]

Hi,

I agree, using digital or even analog multimeters for measuring currents and voltages in case of pulse motors or pulse circuits can be misleading indeed,  I already wrote this in the first page of this thread, in Reply #6.

It is ok that he uses electrolytic capacitor at the output in his pulse motor or in his pulse circuits shown in the last few days but the charging and discharging current shapes are surely far from a normal sinusoid waveforms where the multimeters are normally dependable.  He should use several stages of low-pass filters to "clean" the waveform or make a good DC-DC converter that receives the output from his device and makes a stabilized DC output from it and this DC output should be used at the place of his input batteries.  Member 'poynt' here already uploaded a schematic on a possible output-input looping with an indicator LED to show any self-running state.

rgds,  Gyula

Duh on me then, and I apologize for missing that post.

If the waveforms are truly complex, as they appear to be, then wouldn't a Fourier transformation be required to break the waveform up and collect all its elements?

It seems to me that would be the way to sum everything up ensuring nothing is missed out.

Regarding use of DC-DC converters or low-pass filters, wouldn't they introduce additional system losses that would have to be accounted for as well?

I'm sort of thinking in a different direction. Rather than using a meter between the power source (battery) and the circuit, I would replace the power source and not have any meters interfering with the circuit. The power source replacement would then be some "finite" energy source, perhaps a capacitor who's characteristics are well defined and known.

This capacitor would be charged with a finite amount of energy that could be quantified mathematically and physically before the experiment, then discharged into the circuit through an independent timing controller, for a determined duration of time.

Based on the pre-determined duration of time and the difference of the amount of energy discharged from the capacitor and the starting amount of charge, we could determine the amount of work performed by the capacitor and thus the power consumed by the input circuit.

Does this make sense, or am I just blabbering (late night) non-sense?

[Goat]

@ Amigo

Re: "This capacitor would be charged with a finite amount of energy that could be quantified mathematically and physically before the experiment, then discharged into the circuit through an independent timing controller, for a determined duration of time."

I think if you look(ed) at the 25W bulb video he is doing what you describe but it's through the battery as a "capacitor would be charged with a finite amount of energy".  So different rules apply in the maths but measuring the input from the battery isn't as tricky as the output because it's only feeding the driving circuit.

Let's say you run the 25W bulb experiment but with a properly measured Watt rating on the output compared to the input then you could tell.  So I think the problem is more on the output measurement side.

Just my 2 cents 

Regards,
Paul 

[powercat]

latest from Tommey
Power test with filters on the pulse generator
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izkQs9_Qj90&feature=channel_page
          
      cat
          

[gyulasun]

@amigo

Well,  I agree with you in case the energy source output power spectrum is very wideband, thus the harmonics also carry significant power, then low-pass filtering them surely kills our efforts towards any extra output gain.  This is especially so in case of the Stiffler oscillators. 

However, if someone wants to collect the energy of a flyback pulse which is created across a coil when you switch off the current flowing in it, then the main energy content of the collapsed field manifests in the huge voltage pulse, I believe, here the harmonics energy contents are quickly diminishing.  I think the reason for this is that the stray capacitance of the coil and that of the circuit the coil is embedded, forms a resonant circuit (selectivity) with the coil and most of the collapsed magnetic fields energy will be stored in this circuit and starts dissipating like in any lossy circuit if not taken care of otherwise like feeding this pulse into a storage capacitor via a diode.

Using a DC-DC converter that receives its input from such storage capacitors will not introduce significant loss because the energy already collected could be utilized with a >90% efficiency,  such converters are capable of working at that efficiency.
This is how I meant. 

Re on low pass filter: in case of pulsed circuits the input battery ought to feed the circuit in question via a low pass filter and current draw ought to be measured between the battery and the low pass filter, to get a meaningful input power measurements by multimeters.  At the output of a pulsed circuit, low-pass filter should be used with care of course, not to attenuate still collectable harmonic energy.

Notice: I understand there can be pulsed circuits, oscillators etc where the use of a low-pass filter should be designed into the circuit in advance, to make that particular circuit work correctly. It can happen that the working conditions of circuit simply changes when a low-pass filter is inserted into its supply wires.

What you propose, using a controlled amount of input power source makes sense. But it may involve further active circuits to use,  and a passive low-pass filter may be preferred, depending on the complexity.

The main problem is rather with measuring the output power of such pulsed or oscillator circuits, indeed as Goat just wrote above.  One has to consider the output power spectrum of the circuit she or he built and act accordingly, even selectively collect the main harmonic energies etc. Not a simple task for an hobby tinkerer.


rgds,  Gyula