Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER

[Jack Noskills]

Did some tests with 3d version, not getting OU this time but made observation that verified my initial assumption. I got one primary coil, it was getting 220 V, in the center as described earlier and three secondary coils in the corners. Each coil showed about 60 V when unloaded.

Test 1: One secondary shorted, two other secondaries showed 72.5 V, increase on 12.5 V compared to unloaded case.
Test 2: Two secondaries put together and shorted, third one showed now 107 V, increase of 34.5 V (2.76 times) compared to test 1 and increase of 47 V compared to unloaded case.

Tests show nice upward scalability, back EMF of each new secondary gets amplified in rest of secondaries. The more secondaries you got the more they amplify each other and amplification factor seems to be more than linear. I wish I would have had fourth coil to play with. When I shorted the three coils together I started to get sparks which did not happen with 107 V.

I have couple of more tests in mind that I can do with this crap material I got. If I get anything usefull out of them I will post it here.

[Jack Noskills]

I like the idea of intermediate coil, it has the effect of reducing current taken from primary coil. I made few simple tests to verify this, when two cores were connected together using intermediate coils that is shorted, shorting the secondary made lights go dimmer in primary side.
When using normal trafo in this mode shorting the secondary makes light go brighter in primary side. Mode explanation about this effect can be found here: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6446.0

So, one solution is to combine this with two secondaries having alternate path I have been toying with, see picture below what I mean.

Important things to understand with this setup:
Note how 'green' flux has the same direction as 'blue' fluxes from secondary cores thus aiding primary coil. Energy taken does not take energy from primary or it reduces energy consumption in primary coil if this 'blue' flux is higher.
Note how the 'blue' flux is in same direction with purple flux thus adding flux seen by each secondary, Frolov/Thane effect. Energy taken gets amplified by secondaries.

I need to test if adding more secondaries in this single frame will get you more power increase. This I have verified with 3d version but in that secondaries where using separate cores. I dont think more secondaries in same core would work as it is shown in the MFT paper above.

This might not be the optimum setup for intermediate coil though. If coil is wound separately around grey cores then both cores would get a copy of the flux in primary: first wound in red core, then continue to one grey core and from there to second grey core then short back to start. So already in this phase energy creating flux would be doubled. This would need to be tested, I am not sure if I have enough scrap to play with.

Does anyone see a flaw with above explanation ?

I have dumped the 3d version for now. Problem with that is that it wastes material, it is easier to make those coils but waste of perm alloy it is not good. Permeability differences are not necessarily needed here as all fluxes are now aiding. The fall guy is the intermediate coil but we dont care as it comes for free lol.

But lets assume permeability increases when going from primary core to secondary core to tertiary core. Would the blue flux from secondaries be bigger than purple flux that created it ? If so then it would mean that current in primary would go down as more aiding flux would come back. Based on the experiment I made this might be the case, though I was using only iron plates with secondaries amplifying each other.

Easiest way to build this is to get some perm alloy stripes, they come in reels and are sold by their weight. For example 0.35 mm thick and 16 mm wide, weighs 0.05 kg/m. From that you can easily make whatever kind of core you need. I have requested a quote for one material, NiloMag77, its initial permeability is 60000 which is good enough for proto typing. If you can make heat treatment you can get more permeability, upto 300000. Problem is that I dont know for sure if heat treatment is required, I hope not so it would be easy to make a prototype.

I have one hypotethical question, this aiding flux that primary sees, if it is lets say two times bigger than what comes in from primary then what happens in the company meter ? Does it see energy getting pushed back and if so can the tick go in reverse direction ?

[Mavendex]

I like the idea of intermediate coil, it has the effect of reducing current taken from primary coil. I made few simple tests to verify this, when two cores were connected together using intermediate coils that is shorted, shorting the secondary made lights go dimmer in primary side.
When using normal trafo in this mode shorting the secondary makes light go brighter in primary side. Mode explanation about this effect can be found here: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6446.0

So, one solution is to combine this with two secondaries having alternate path I have been toying with, see picture below what I mean.

Important things to understand with this setup:
Note how 'green' flux has the same direction as 'blue' fluxes from secondary cores thus aiding primary coil. Energy taken does not take energy from primary or it reduces energy consumption in primary coil if this 'blue' flux is higher.
Note how the 'blue' flux is in same direction with purple flux thus adding flux seen by each secondary, Frolov/Thane effect. Energy taken gets amplified by secondaries.

I need to test if adding more secondaries in this single frame will get you more power increase. This I have verified with 3d version but in that secondaries where using separate cores. I dont think more secondaries in same core would work as it is shown in the MFT paper above.

This might not be the optimum setup for intermediate coil though. If coil is wound separately around grey cores then both cores would get a copy of the flux in primary: first wound in red core, then continue to one grey core and from there to second grey core then short back to start. So already in this phase energy creating flux would be doubled. This would need to be tested, I am not sure if I have enough scrap to play with.

Does anyone see a flaw with above explanation ?

I have dumped the 3d version for now. Problem with that is that it wastes material, it is easier to make those coils but waste of perm alloy it is not good. Permeability differences are not necessarily needed here as all fluxes are now aiding. The fall guy is the intermediate coil but we dont care as it comes for free lol.

But lets assume permeability increases when going from primary core to secondary core to tertiary core. Would the blue flux from secondaries be bigger than purple flux that created it ? If so then it would mean that current in primary would go down as more aiding flux would come back. Based on the experiment I made this might be the case, though I was using only iron plates with secondaries amplifying each other.

Easiest way to build this is to get some perm alloy stripes, they come in reels and are sold by their weight. For example 0.35 mm thick and 16 mm wide, weighs 0.05 kg/m. From that you can easily make whatever kind of core you need. I have requested a quote for one material, NiloMag77, its initial permeability is 60000 which is good enough for proto typing. If you can make heat treatment you can get more permeability, upto 300000. Problem is that I dont know for sure if heat treatment is required, I hope not so it would be easy to make a prototype.

I have one hypotethical question, this aiding flux that primary sees, if it is lets say two times bigger than what comes in from primary then what happens in the company meter ? Does it see energy getting pushed back and if so can the tick go in reverse direction ?

This Idea does work, the Intermediate as you call it or I call it a Primary driver will hold current if placed between two pieces of metal one where it gets the flux then dumps that flux into the next metal while the primary is also dumping flux, the cool part about this is that you have to use less amperage to make this and my device work or you can get it to really work well with the added flux for overall less power used.

Ive already tested it and have it setup on a triple core, although it does store flux it changes your values as far as your voltages and a couple other things, adding capacitance to the device seems to send power out in both directions and not just the reactive power im still testing but it seems to be working out like that.

oh and its way way simpler to get it to a pf of 0 basically if it where possible and I believe it is you get under 0 and not only are you giving everything back but now your giving a little more.

Primary driver for the win.

Just tried it again with my shell shorted to itself as well and it says thiers volts but when a load is applied the volts don't change or the load work..... very intresting...., anyway good luck on your intermediate, its a good idea! mabye drop a capacitor on that guy to slosh the energy around a bit.

[Jack Noskills]

Thanks Mav, nice to have guys around here who can do tests like this.

Yesterday I was able to do more testing and proved to myself that the concepts in the MFT paper do work, namely flux copying and intermediate coil. Also realised that the stuff going on the intermediate coil can be used to load something, or connected to output directly. However my intermediate coil was using 220 volts and my output coils were thicker and they put out only 23 volts so intermediate output did not mix in well. When I connected intermediate coil to output in wrong way primary started to drain more from source and when it was in the correct way primary used only two milliamps more. When I placed load on secondary primary used less power, actually it used less power than in its idle state. Idle state meaning that intermediate coil was not connected to anything. However, because my secondary coils were different connecting to output directly was not better than just shorting the intermediate coil. I did place the intermediate coil to run the electric saw and when pressed the start button lights on the load side went on. There was only 36 mA running in the intermediate coils (when shorted) so it was not enough to run it though. But power is still power even if it is small.

I did not compare this to normal trafo so no exact figures but I have tested normal trafo earlier and lamps on the primary side were brightly lit when lights on secondary side went on.

I have now obtained enough data to get me convinced and I have designed a transformer that combines all these principles, namely flux copying, intermediate coil and back EMF amplification in a single package. It uses minimum of four toroidal cores of same permeability, of course higher the better. Toroids can be small, for example M-088 from magnetec costs 30 Eur and has u of 80000, inner diameter 48 mm. At the moment they have only 2 cores available in stock and it might take weeks to get more. Their Magneperm material should have higher u but no info on that yet.

All cores are wound in the same way and then connected together, windings will be nonconventional. Toroids can be placed flat on a board or they can form a tube or there can be many tubes forming a big cylinder. All driven from single primary core. Additional output can be obtained using more output cores or more intermediate cores connected to more output cores. But always only single primary core.

This is difficult to explain so I need to make a paper about it that describes the principles and enough build details to make it happen. This will take several days so I will start immediately. Now I am thinking if I should build this myself first which will take some time mainly because of core lead time, or should I just post the paper before I get the items needed to build this. So how about it, are there any volunteers having four preferrably nanoperm toroids lying around with some spare Litz or figure 8 wire ?

[Mavendex]

don't forget metglas and fetite as well