I see an economic diasater coming...

[d3adp00l]

appreciate the confidence Ex.

Ok back on topic.

An FYI does anyone know or understand who is involved with the g20, and g8?

In the g20 there are only 19 countries,
in the g8 there are 9 members.

guess who is the odd man out, its the central bank of Europe.

So let me get this straight, the countries sit down and have a meeting with the bank, it sounds like debt negotiation to me, with the bank giving orders.

The new unemployment numbers are up again, the real unemployment it close to 25-27%, what do you think this down spin in jobs will do?

The home foreclosure rate is up, and the sales supposedly came up a bit. Well sure thats what it looks like. As home foreclose they get sold at auction, which is still a sale.

The central valley in california, 1 million arces, is getting its water shut off.

Seriously how can you expect a recovery when the most basic forms of the economy is destroyed.

Lets establish a few things. ALL economy is based ultimately on agriculture. Second to that is construction, after that is manufacturing. Energy is a modifier to those industries.

A simple critical path method of econ analysis is all that is needed. Wallstreet can not fix this, government spending can not fix this. Increasing our true worth is the only way.

So as people limit their expenses, and the gov. and big biz. continue to siphon off their share, which reduces the amount of money flowing back into the economy.

This whole system is just a ponzy scheme, with the gov.s and big biz being the ones telling us that if we just play our part we could be like them, we could have the wealth they have.

Well here is the problem with that, money is a commodity according to this system right? So in order for it to have value there has to be a demand with a limited supply.

So if we could actually acquire some wealth, their wealth would be worth less, because we as a whole would desire their money less, because we have our own.

This is a classic scam, a Tom sawyer if you will. Make everyone desire what it is that you have, and keep them in wanting.

How to keep them in wanting, well make sure that most (90%) can never get there, put enough taxes, profit margins, indirect taxes, credit charges, interest rates, etc. So that if you don't start out with enough money to be on the inside, the likelyhood of you getting in the inside is slim.

Its just like the lotto system, "you can only win if you play" but if you play in this system you can only hope to break even. Every once in a while they have to let someone win, otherwise no one would play.

This system has to fail, its designed to do it. Any system that has interest on it will always fail. Its percentage of waste grows exponentially.

[the_big_m_in_ok]

d3adp00l said:

This system has to fail, its designed to do it. Any system that has interest on it will always fail. Its percentage of waste grows exponentially.

Yes, exactly.  Several original religious founders around the world had said the same thing.  Greed is its own punishment, as it were.

I read an Internet presentation in .PDF once(might be gone now) that indicated on the "Conclusions" page, last paragraph...
In effect, hunter/gatherer cultures had existed for 1,000,000 years until the last 8,000 years or so.  If there was a drought, earthquake, tidal wave, etc, the tribe could survive with some difficulty.
But when civilization was invented, the greedy religious/military/business class took control.  Famine and competition for food became a chronic feature in many societies.
People could often cope until then.  But not since then.
Another collapse is coming for the same reason the others happened.  "Business as usual."

--Lee

[exxcomm0n]

Damn, there goes d3 making sense again.

I think everyone is comfortable with the idea that most gov't economic systems are ponzi schemes that have run out of new investors to fleece.
It was a lot easier when there were plenty of raw materials to steal and exploit but population density has kind of killed that possibility.

So major questions are:
How long do you think it will be before the lack of economic growth is so prevalent that it will be hard to deny no matter what the news says causing a collapse or the announcement of military action on domestic soil to "keep the peace"?

How prepared are you?
If it happened tomorrow would you be ready?

What will be the major indicators that you will use to know that a very bad situation is SOON?

How long will you wait before you know it's time to either get out or batten down the hatches?

Can you feed you and yours until next harvest season?

Can you provide a fully balanced diet during that time?

How will you provide for your energy needs if the grid or gas station is unavailable?

How will you communicate? What will be your sources of news?

Can you organize, or be a part of a well rounded self sufficient community or will it all be DIY?

I really don't expect answers to each of these points from members of the forum, but I wanted to throw them out there to give you (and myself) some parameters of what will be necessary should the worst case scenario be realized.

Since it was recommended to me that I start a new thread, I believe I will, but I will choose a different subject than what was recommended.
It'll be questions like these that anyone else can use as a preparedness checklist to see how ready for self sufficiency they really are.

Again, I don't do this to scare anyone, but by the time most people think it's time to head for the hills, it's already too late.

[d3adp00l]

how prepared?
fair

tomorrow?
not as much as I would like to be, But I could make what I have work.

Bad situation?
As far as I am concerned, I don't like what I see already. And frankly I don't like knowing what I know about how it all works. So either way I want a change. But indicators, martial law declared anywhere in the US, any local catastrophies, certain laws being enforced, anyone coming and violating my rights in my home, or anyone I know.

How long?
after I see one of the above, its time to move and move fast. I figure 24hrs to a week at most. Batten down the hatches? not where I live.

Can I feed?
yes I believe I can

diet?
same as above

Power?
solar for now, a small grid, working on more, and biogas plant. As far as vehicle fuel, thats a situation no joy right now. Unless you count horses.
Working on establishing bio type fuels, and switching over vehicles to run it, veg oil and diesels.

Comm?
Local comm with short range radios, have the standard multiband windup radios for listening. Long range comm, looking into HAM, but I am not real familiar with it yet, and its not biggest on the list, finishing power is.

Community?
have a few that would go with, some are certain, some are maybes, most are see ya if the dust settles.

One question not asked, water?

I figure it this way, this system is built on everyone subscribing to it, if we stop doing that it gets weaker, and by negative relief, us stronger. So I am choosing to participate as little as is possible. I will vote with my dollar, or the lack of it. Am I choosing to be poor? I don't believe so. I am choosing to be in control of the transactions I participate in.

I am choosing not to make money from nothing. In my opinion people who want to do that are part of the problem.

[MasterPlaster]

OK guys. I know the economic collapsapse is near. I am in agreement with you but with causion. You are thinking of saving yourselves. It is an instively generated action. I think mankind has come to the point that must (by force if have to) realize that we are part of a same collective.

I don't know what is exactly facing us tomorrow but what ever it is, together we can over-come it for sure.

I know this is too idealistic but this will be the future.
The concept of every man for himself has brought us where we are today.