I see an economic diasater coming...

[Temporal Visitor]

What bothers me the most are people clinging to the word democracy.  The devil is in the details of that word.

Here in the U.S. I was taught the rights of the individual.  Which means I can be as lazy, smart, trendy, athletic, entrepreneurial, religious, spiritual, etc. as I want, as long as I do no harm to anyone else.  That is at the heart of this republic or once great nation.  These were the rules and with those rules, people can become the best at whatever they choose to pursue.  There are a few still around that understand these principals and why when they are employed, make a nation worth fighting for.  But now...

Everyone wants democracy.  Also known as mob rule.  They take great comfort in numbers, able to push others around and force their will upon the minority.  They change the rules routinely to improve their odds and further their goals.  It's a big club and I'm not in it as George Carlin would say.  Everyone wants to be a winner and be a part of something bigger than themselves.  It's a world I barely comprehend and have little desire to be a part of.

I sometimes wonder what the founders such as Thomas Jefferson would say if he were alive today.  I think it would go something like this:

"We gave you a country where every individual had the right and obligation to become the very best they can at whatever they choose to seek out.  We gave you this and instead of cherishing and protecting it, the people of this country gave their unalienable rights away and decided the good of the majority outweigh the good of the few or the one.  It is such a sad sight to see, a pity on those that will witness their own destruction.  Many nations have fallen under the same trap, weary to recognize the error of their ways.  Let it be known we truly did all we knew at the time to create a beacon of light on this so desolate mountain."

So yes, I do believe the generations to come will never comprehend let alone reenact that which would have brought them virtue.  I'm a dying breed as are the few that recognize my words.  The majority will make their own nest and lie in the ruins that follow.  They will never know what they have lost, but at some point they will recognize everything is gone.

M@

Democracy ..... and the rest of it: Couldn't agree with you more as another of that dying breed.

An excerpt of my similar understanding:
"The factual beginnings of my beloved but chimerical America where put to paper in the Declaration of Independence as self evident truths that like all truth stand on their own for all time.

A revolution was fought and King George was outted. His "majesty's" Sovereignty devolved to the people of the colonies. Each Man and Woman previously referred to as a "subject" became an individual Sovereign, without any subjects and none to govern but them self.

Those were the days when men were men.

We had the Articles of Confederation and then memorialized our Constitution for the united States of America to establish a constitutional republic. A republic made up of several individual states in a confederacy with a very limited central or "federal" government with prescribed duties and proscriptions mandated, primarily to protect the individual rights of the people. The people who delegated a limited measure of their individual sovereign authority to create a government.

That constitution also specifically mandates the form of government established was to be "a republican form of government" and no where in it will you find mention of any "democracy". But don't believe me, go read it for yourself and then try to deny reality.

Enough of history, if you are still reading this I commend you because those that believe America or the United States are in fact a democracy may never understand what reality is.

It has been said that our refusal to learn from history dooms us to repeat it, and I sense the ring of Truth is in those words as well."
from - http://www.backgauges.com/Gen-E-Sys%20II/laws.html

A man can be shown the "law" but cannot be made to think.

"Democracy" is foreign and un American, mob rule is a very short lived "form of government" that self extinguishes.

[allcanadian]

A man can be shown the "law" but cannot be made to think.[/size]"Democracy" is foreign and un American, mob rule is a very short lived "form of government" that self extinguishes.

The Republican Form of government is one in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the people and are exercised by the people, either directly, or through representatives chosen by the people, to whom those powers are specially delegated. Unlike the democratic form of government, in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the whole body of free citizens, individuals retain sovereign prerogatives over their private property rights (absolute ownership) of their person, labor and property.


Obviously a republic, as in banana republic, is an ill conceived outdated notion that you are somehow separate from me and everyone else. You want absolute ownership of property which you would then pollute for profit which effects me. Then you would claim it is your sovereign right to do this and I have no right to stop you. In essence it is a way for immature people who lack empathy to do harm to others and never have to deal with the consequences of their own actions. Not to mention the fact that most also believe them doing harm to others is not the same as when others do the same harm to them which is obviously a sign of mental disorders which need to be addressed.


As I said you never really know someone until you tell them no... then they tend to lose all composure and we see the real person and not the one they were pretending to be. Not unlike the juvenile delinquent we know as Donald Trump.


I mean you loved democracy in the past when it worked in your favor didn't you?. However now that it isn't so much you have decided you want to change the rules. As most responsible adults know this is a clear sign of immaturity and it is not acceptable behavior for any adult. However this is what you intend to do don't you...change the rules?.


In any case a republic worked in the past because the population density was low, resources were abundant and pollution was manageable. This is not the case today and we the people of this planet have collectively decided that this stupidity needs to end. You do not have the right to continue to do harm to others and it will not be tolerated in the future. Sorry about your luck...deal with it.


AC

[Temporal Visitor]

Thank you for your opinions. They clearly show how little you actually know about me, as well as they show herd mentality in action.

The Republican Form of government is one in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the people and are exercised by the people, either directly, or through representatives chosen by the people, to whom those powers are specially delegated. Unlike the democratic form of government, in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the whole body of free citizens, individuals retain sovereign prerogatives over their private property rights (absolute ownership) of their person, labor and property.

A couple simple questions for you about "democracy": In a "democracy" without a "Declaration of Independence" like America's where do the "powers of sovereignty" flow from for YOU to claim you retain "sovereign prerogatives over their private property rights (absolute ownership) of their person, labor and property." as an INDIVIDUAL?

You write "(absolute ownership)": Will you be so kind as to explain how YOU alone can enforce your will to enjoy "absolute ownership" of anything against the will of the rest of the herd that has the will/force and collective POWER to take anything/everything you claim from YOU.

Obviously a republic, as in banana republic, is an ill conceived outdated notion that you are somehow separate from me and everyone else. You want absolute ownership of property which you would then pollute for profit which effects me. Then you would claim it is your sovereign right to do this and I have no right to stop you. In essence it is a way for immature people who lack empathy to do harm to others and never have to deal with the consequences of their own actions. Not to mention the fact that most also believe them doing harm to others is not the same as when others do the same harm to them which is obviously a sign of mental disorders which need to be addressed.

Get real: This is purely your opinion, one made from a position of having no personal knowledge about me.

As I said you never really know someone until you tell them no... then they tend to lose all composure and we see the real person and not the one they were pretending to be. Not unlike the juvenile delinquent we know as Donald Trump.


I mean you loved democracy in the past when it worked in your favor didn't you?. However now that it isn't so much you have decided you want to change the rules. As most responsible adults know this is a clear sign of immaturity and it is not acceptable behavior for any adult. However this is what you intend to do don't you...change the rules?.

NO, no, no! There has never been any love for "democracy" by this man. Only a deep respect for our "Rule of law." and none for the "rule of men" who refuse to follow the written law in OUR NATION OF LAW that was founded upon "self evident truths" I don't expect you to ascribe to.

In any case a republic worked in the past because the population density was low, resources were abundant and pollution was manageable. This is not the case today and we the people of this planet have collectively decided that this stupidity needs to end. You do not have the right to continue to do harm to others and it will not be tolerated in the future. Sorry about your luck...deal with it.

AC

"NO"again, although in part you are correct about population, resources, and pollution you completely miss the fact that the united states of America was based upon the necessity of a morally and spiritually upright population that understood right from wrong, which admittedly is diminishing too rapidly. - Yes there is/will be a price to pay, and it won't be cheap or pretty.

Sadly "NO" again: Your collective "we the people of this planet" making the decision to end what you deem "stupidity" will not solve the real cause of the troubles that are within you as well as many others; you think you are RIGHT.

No sir I cannot fix the stupidity of others but I am quite able to govern myself and do no harm to others as the Captain of my own ship sailing among fools on their very own sinking ship of fools.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhNl6wIkVs8

Not sure just how "sorry" you are but I kindly remind you as a fellow dweller on this wonderful Earth and "next door neighbor" come what may - you and yours most likely will be AFFECTED by the fallout.

Peace.
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"Have we forgotten we're all children?

Children from a family tree

that's longer than a centipede

started long ago when you and I

were only love"

[the_big_m_in_ok]

Temporal Visitor wrote:

"Not sure just how "sorry" you are but I kindly remind you as a fellow dweller on this wonderful Earth and "next door neighbor" come what may - you and yours most likely will be AFFECTED by the fallout.

Peace."
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Temporal Visitor,
       I agree with about everything you say, which I effectively 'snipped' with this response.   I think your answers are correct, in the main.   The subject of this thread is that the economy will in fact collapse and everyone except very rural 'mountain men' will be affected badly.   Even extremely badly.

       However, unless you have some way to live 'under the radar' or 'off the grid', your future is equal to anyone else's.   I have an escape plan already worked out.   I'll only say it has nothing to do with the usually envisioned ways of dealing with economic adversity and/or privation.   I'll keep the details to myself.

       I won't ask you 'why' and 'why is the ''why'', is so.   If you can avoid the coming, impending; onrushing economic calamity, then you deserve to survive.   Please take note:  My part-time job requires a high security clearance on mose than one level of sensitivity.
       An associate/supervisor, whom I answer to, has indicated that you can say the truth from a certain amount of your personal experience---and I know what that experience is.   I do have a security clearance and I know why you say what you do.   It's merely classified for me to make it public.   I have a similar situation that you have, and it's not so much difficult to describe, than it is to convince people that it can happen.   Most would say it's impossible for me to do.   These people don't have the resources I do have, though.
       My associates can indeed tell you about myself in detail, but would you be able to describe it to the Members or viewing public convincingly?   Make it sound like it was not impossible---or at least highly improbable?   I don't think so.   I can tell you this:  We work for the same 'outfit'.   Which one is that?   Classified.   My clearance.

       You're correct in you opinions as they were presented.   Additionally, there's this...

http://seekingalpha.com/article/4017426-sweat-election-next-crisis-already-baked-cake

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/a-crisis-in-european-banks-threatens-to-roil-global-markets-2016-09-28

       I could probably find more articles like these, but these are descriptive enough and time is short on this borrowed computer.   I'm not worried.   I have a way out of this worldwide mess that's coming.   Mostly,  people who treat money like a commodity will invariably lose control of that money valuation through their greed, and will eventually end up broke and/or starving sooner or later.   Especially later.

--Lee

[lancaIV]

                                                                        I see an economic diaet coming 
https://www.google.pt/search?q=jovoto+300+house&client=opera&hs=9BE&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjuzqjZ1onQAhUCaRQKHTd6By8QsAQIKw&biw=1366&bih=668


               https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTLgzxvsP2jbqEWx3HmMMSwOYtDcEeS9uERyOvI8rpadsIzIgxKrw
                                                                           interplanetary reengineering
                           
                                                           https://www.jovoto.com/projects/300house/ideas/12769
                                                                      great value,nice price estimation  
                                                                                         chapeu !


                                                        work area per capita,fertile ground : 750 sqm/2250sft ~ 1/6 "Tag werk"
                                                        wheat,fruit,vegetable,milk(wheat or animal)

                                                        aquaponding,perm(a)culture


                                                       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2mRA03dWUI