New Magnetic Motor Principal?

[FatChance!!!]

I'm not here to contest negative perceived ideas.... or maybe some negative comments are good!

I'm not being negative. I just serve you some real world facts that are often overlooked when
trying to make an overunity motor. Knowledge is aways better than ignorance.
Without knowledge you will run into the same show stoppers as all OU inventors before you.
But if you have the advantage of magnetic knowledge you might find a way to reach your goal.
You must not fight or force your design into something that can't possibly work.
Instead you must find a way to use the existing rules and make good use of the available forces.

The best way is to start some simple test setups of your design and you will learn a lot of what to avoid.
You could build one sixth part of your motor using only two statormagnets, one rotormagnet and electromagnet.
This could be built quickly and show you how real world forces operate, e.g the limitations of EM vs Neos.
Once you have the facts you can either build an advanced tweaked version of your motor or perhaps
something completely else based on your freshly gained knowledge.

Yes, You are exactly correct!

Thankyou for being so understanding once again. 

[gyulasun]

Hi Lumen,

Still trying to digest the setup of your 6 x 6 magnet ring, picture constant+torque+field2_mod.jpg and I did the following small experiment.

I took two N36 grade cylinder magnets (diameter: 18mm, thickness 5mm) in my hands and arranged them as one be a stator fixed in my left hand and the other as the rotor in my right hand, just like for instance the two magnets shown at the 9 o'clock position in the above drawing.
I slowly approached the right hand side magnet from below to upwards, passing the facing position and beyond.  I clearly felt the following forces:

1) on approach from below the 9 o'clock position (say, starting the rotor magnet from the 8 o'clock position) there was an increasing definite pulling force (I mean from the rotor point of view) RADIALLY outside towards the stator magnet and a very small force towards the clockwise (the desired) rotor rotational direction
2) I found a point where this strong pull was at the maximum, pointing radially out,  and slightly beyond this point an ever increasing repel force started with respect to the still clockwise wanted rotation
3) the maximum repel force was reached at the position, when the two magnets were face to face
4) forcing the rotor magnet further on in the clockwise direction I felt again the pulling force acting radially on the rotor magnet, like in step 1)

All in all there are three sticky points for all the 6 magnet pairs, two strong radially attract forces with a strong repel force in-between. And all these forces should be considered twice as they occur twice simultaneously. (I mean for instance the magnet pair at 9 o'clock and its "mirror" at the 3 o'clock position and so on for the other pairs, alltogether any sticky point counts 6 times as stronger, unfortunately.)

I think a huge amount of input power would be needed to defeat these sticky points, so this design needs some redesigning.

Thanks,  Gyula

[lumen]

Gyula,

That is about correct, there is a very strong force as the magnet crosses the gap. That is why it is an electromagnet!
It must be off when passing through the gap. A coil would not see the gap as a sticky point even if it used a steel core.
There would only be an attraction as approaching and the same attraction after passing and so would appear neutral.

The all magnet version must stay between the two magnet faces. Then the moving magnet would flip over  while in the center of the larger magnet at a balanced point as to not require any energy. (or as little as possible)

This would reverse the direction and would then just oscillate between the two magnet faces.
An all magnet motor built this way could not produce much energy because it would not be a continuous path. The constant start and stop operation would limit energy output.

The rotary version requires an electromagnet and you also must recover the energy from the collapsing field to operate OU.

[gyulasun]

Lumen,

Thanks but I do not fully get you, you mean the magnet crossing the gap is an electromagnet?  then I surely missed your setup how you thought.

And you mean that either the outer or the inner set of magnets should be electromagnets or you mean both sets are permanent magnets as in my referred drawing (drawn from your model) and you place 6 electromagnets between the middle edge positions?
In this latter case a very high input power is neeed for this setup to operate, considering the two radially attracting and one radially repelling forces for each permanent magnet pair.  I would appreciate another drawing just showing the one perm magnet pair and the electromagnet or if this is not how you think then the one as you think, lol   

hopefully you understand where I am lost in your setup?

rgds, Gyula

[lumen]

You have it correct in the colored layout that you did with the single coil. You already have it marked correctly also.
It's just that ALL the other magnets rotate together on one rotor.

You also believe it to take a large amount of power to affect the rotor? If power is applied just after passing the coil, there is a very strong field at this point that it pushes from. Only in the midpoint is the field weak. This does not create a problem because the spacing could be decreased if required.
Ideally, the coil will be energized with a 50% duty cycle  at an RPM that is at a resonant frequency so the dead area at the mid point is not critical.

I have only been working on the ALL magnet version of this and have not yet expanded into the electromagnetic layout. This information is to explore this concept and not to be taken as a complete working assembly!
I will however post a fully operational plan if it does achieve the desired results.