Some thoughts on a homopolar idea.

[gravityblock]

I guess what I'm getting at is magnetic fields may not have a force on other magnetic fields.  The magnetic field of one magnet may have a force on another magnet's electric field and vice versa.

We've been taught that like poles repel each other and opposite poles attract each other.  This is true, but the forces may not be between the magnetic fields.  The forces may be between the electric fields and magnetic fields of each magnet.  The magnetic field of one magnet will re-orientate the spins of the electrons in another magnet, thus the magnetic field changes when the electron's spins change.

Take two axially magnetized magnets.  Bring the magnets together where they're in attraction mode.  Now, one magnet will be entirely a North pole and the other magnet will be entirely a South pole.  The spin of the electrons had to be re-orientated in each magnet in order for each magnet to lose a pole.  This is due to the magnetic fields of each magnet having a force on the other's electric field.

It's the same with a magnet and a metal piece.  The magnetic field of the magnet will align the electrons in the metal piece where the metal piece is attracted to the magnet.  Using a different pole of the magnet will align the electrons in the metal with an opposite spin, thus they attract each other with either pole.  This is a monopole force similar to gravity, except gravity works on the atoms instead of the electrons.

The magnetic fields of each magnet may interact with each other, such as connecting or disconnecting to each other or diverting each other's paths, but I don't believe there is a force between them.  The force may be between the magnetic fields and moving charges.

Maybe I'm learning what everyone else already knows or maybe it's not correct.  I'm in search for the truth, that is all.  I want to know what is correct so that knowledge can be properly applied.

Thanks,

GB

[gyulasun]

Hi GB,

I guess what I'm getting at is magnetic fields may not have a force on other magnetic fields.  The magnetic field of one magnet may have a force on another magnet's electric field and vice versa. 

This is the first time I read a permanent magnet has an electric field, besides its normal magnetic fields. In my present understanding it has no any electric field.

We've been taught that like poles repel each other and opposite poles attract each other.  This is true, but the forces may not be between the magnetic fields.  The forces may be between the electric fields and magnetic fields of each magnet.  The magnetic field of one magnet will re-orientate the spins of the electrons in another magnet, thus the magnetic field changes when the electron's spins change.

I think we have to differentiate two cases here: one for the repel and one for the attract case. For the repel case, I do not think the reorientation of the electrons' spins in one magnet happens when another magnet comes close to it, if it did, then one magnet could change the magnetic properties of the other in this repel mode,  yes I know this can happen when you "treat" an old BaFe ferrite magnet with a very strong Neo magnet, but normally this does not happen to modern magnets.
In repel mode, the flux of one magnet does not even reach to the surface of the other magnet, not to mention penetration, just because all the flux lines divert each other away from their 'source'. This is why there seems to be no eddy current heat losses developed in magnets made of good current conducting materials i.e. metals when you use them in repel mode wrt each other.
For the attract case see next below.

Take two axially magnetized magnets.  Bring the magnets together where they're in attraction mode.  Now, one magnet will be entirely a North pole and the other magnet will be entirely a South pole.  The spin of the electrons had to be re-orientated in each magnet in order for each magnet to lose a pole.  This is due to the magnetic fields of each magnet having a force on the other's electric field.

Well, when you join two magnets like you described above in attract mode, then the Bloch walls of each magnet gets shifted to the middle of their joined length and the two magnets have become one magnet as if you had manufactured a single magnet with double the length. If you join magnets like that with different lengths, the Bloch wall will develop somewhere in-between the total length.  But I do not think that each magnet has influenced the other one's electric field but the electron spins or magnetic domains.  However, I am uncertain here with the question of eddy current and hysteresis losses in this moving Bloch wall cases, probably there are some such losses if the joinings of the magnets are done dynamically.

It's the same with a magnet and a metal piece.  The magnetic field of the magnet will align the electrons in the metal piece where the metal piece is attracted to the magnet.  Using a different pole of the magnet will align the electrons in the metal with an opposite spin, thus they attract each other with either pole.  This is a monopole force similar to gravity, except gravity works on the atoms instead of the electrons.

Well I agree here, though your last sentence may be like that.

The magnetic fields of each magnet may interact with each other, such as connecting or disconnecting to each other or diverting each other's paths, but I don't believe there is a force between them.  The force may be between the magnetic fields and moving charges. 

If magnetic fields (may) interact with each other, say divert each other's path, then the force ought to be between them because with any one magnet's field is missing (say you place an iron plate between two repel magnets) then the (repel) force disappears. Maybe this is not a good explanation for this...

And where are the moving charges in a permanent magnet?

Maybe I'm learning what everyone else already knows or maybe it's not correct.  I'm in search for the truth, that is all.  I want to know what is correct so that knowledge can be properly applied.

Thanks,

GB

I agree that much is not known on magnetism and we all should learn and experience a lot to explore further secrets.

rgds, Gyula

[gravityblock]

This is the first time I read a permanent magnet has an electric field, besides its normal magnetic fields. In my present understanding it has no any electric field.

An electric field is made up of charges.  A static electric field are stationary charges with no magnetic field.  A moving electric field are moving charges with a magnetic field.  You can't have magnetic fields without charges moving.  When the spins of the electrons (moving charges) are aligned in the same direction, then the magnetic field strengthens.  If they're randomly aligned, then the magnetic fields get canceled by each other.  Bottom line is, no moving electric field in a PM, then no magnetic fields in a PM.

In repel mode, the flux of one magnet does not even reach to the surface of the other magnet, not to mention penetration, just because all the flux lines divert each other away from their 'source'. This is why there seems to be no eddy current heat losses developed in magnets made of good current conducting materials i.e. metals when you use them in repel mode wrt each other.

Contrary to what most believe, the field lines may connect to each other in repel mode and may reach to the surface of the other magnet.  In attraction mode, the field lines may disconnect from each other and get diverted.  Why do I say this, cause I've watched it happen in real time with magnets.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-dbGUcnFaI&feature=channel  Pay careful attention to the "Legend" at the start of the video.  Then watch how the field lines connect and disconnect to each other.  The black voids are the poles.  Sometimes like poles will join together and form larger voids.  Watch all the videos from Sirzerp.  There is a lot to learn in these videos.

And where are the moving charges in a permanent magnet?

You must accept that there are moving charges in a PM.  Without moving charges in a PM, then you can't have a magnetic field.  "A moving charge creates a magnetic field".  This is very basic.  "A changing magnetic field moves a charge".  If the charge is stationary, and a changing magnetic field passes this stationary charge that doesn't have a magnetic field and causes it to move, then the magnetic fields must have a force on charges (electric fields).  Once those charges start to move, then the charges are induced with a magnetic field that is in opposition to the electric field of the magnetic field that induced it.  This all makes sense to me.  Sometimes things are not as they appear to be.

GB

[gravityblock]

Opposite poles facing each other in attraction mode.  As you move them together, the fields get diverted and will connect to the closest field line with a like pole.

Take a field line from a north pole of a single magnet.  Divide this field line into segments at the planck scale.  Each segment will be made up of like poles.  Now it is easy to see that field lines of like poles connect to each other.  Field lines of opposite poles do not connect to each other and gets diverted which connects to the closest field line with a like pole.

A 5th grader can understand this.  Are we smarter than a 5th grader?  It appears not.  Brainwashing is a hard thing to overcome.

[gravityblock]

@broli:

I won't interrupt your threads anymore.  Currently accepted theories can not answer my questions and I know you don't get into personal theories of others.  I will leave with these thoughts.

The torque in the HPM is the counter torque produced in the HPG.  The EMF produced in the HPG is the BEMF produced in the HPM. 

If the forces acting on the magnet is canceled in a HPM, then the forces acting on the magnet should be canceled in the HPG.  There's a missing link.  Do you know where to find this missing link?  I've showed you the missing link and the path, but the path is not accepted. 

Hint: magnetic fields have forces on electric fields.  Magnetic field of one pole has a force on the electric field of the other pole, this is what keeps the electrons moving which induces a magnetic field that has a force on the electric field of the other pole (it's a self exciting system).  Oh, the electric field in an axially magnetized magnet is radial.  Each pole of a magnet has it's own electric field that points in the opposite direction to the other.  The electric field on a HPG disc is radial.  This should make things very clear.


Take care,

GB