Hilden-Brand Magnet Motor

[gyulasun]

Hi Gyula, there really is no need to acuse me of debunking.  If it's not possible to raise a question (which in my opinion has not been answered) regarding a claim of free energy without being accused of debunking then I think we can end the discussion right here.

Hi Albert, no, sorry for this, I did not mean that,  but I do mean you tend to ignore physical facts that change the original parameters of the electromagnet.

Of course you can always replace the magnet with iron but if you do so, my opinion is that then,  if you wish to compare correctly the force received with the core to that of the magnet, you have to increase the cross sectional area of the sleeve with the amount of that of the iron core (you inserted) towards the outside direction of the sleeve (to preserve the possibility of inserting again the same sized magnet into the sleeve for correct comparison). This may sound strange to you but I think this is where the point is if we wish to make justful comparison.

Why is my reasoning flawed?  Why is it wrong if I want electromagnets with equal cross sectional areas in the comparison first? 

Is it not a physical fact that the moment you insert iron core to fill up the empty hollow of the original sleeve core then you just create an electromagnet which is much stronger in itself, independently from the valve setup, than the electromagnet with the sleeve core and no permanent magnet involved in either case yet?

And why is it stronger? Because it contains more ferromagnetic material than the sleeve does, simply because you filled up the sleeve's so far magnetically empty volume with permeable core; you multiplied  the magnetic conduction of the air-filled inner volume of the sleeve  by permeability times of the iron core.

And in Jack's valve you wish to ignore this when comparing the performance thus gained to that of the magnet case.  I do not think this is a technically correct comparison if done your way, not correcting for the unequal cross sectional areas in the electromagnets.

Regards

Gyula

[Honk]

Hello.

I have been wondering if 100% of the input power to the magnet valve
is being converted into a magnetic field.
Yesterday I did some calculations in this matter using this link
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/magnetic/solenoid.html#c3
Please see the attached picture.

It acctually turns out that it is possible to get very high flux in a
solenoid electro magnet with an iron core using just 7 to 8 watts.

I did calculations on a core that is 4cm long and has 654 turns of flat
enamelled copper wire with the iron permability of 200.
The flat wire is 0.035mm thick and 6.4mm wide. I used this size because I will
soon recieve it to a project I'm working on.
The calculated resistance of the 654 turns of copper wire is 7.35 ohms.
This magnet is totally realistic to make in real life.

It turns out that 7.35W of power at 1A to this coil will create 4.11 tesla.
Well, this is inside the center of the iron core and the total flux at the
ends of the solenoid is probably somewhat lower but still it gives me a
feeling that not all electricity is converted into flux in the magnetic Valve?

When lowering the permability parameter to 100 I get only half the flux.
I did lower it to simulate removing a portion (50%) of the core.
This indicates that removing iron will lower the efficiency in creating
electricity into magnetic flux.

If this is the case, then all the magnet does is replacing the missing
permability and this indicates that we will not get any overunity...
Sadly enough.

I do hope I'm wrong on this because I really want an overunity motor.

I have completed a Motorcontrol electronic schematic based on the on
the Coil Delay Remover I posted a couple of days ago.
It is acctually easier to implement than I thought.
It will be completly self adjusting and it will not consume any more
power than compaired to a conventional design.
It also recycles the energy from the back EMF to enhance the efficiency.

Later on, if Jacks Motor turns out good, I'll post the complete schematic here.

/Honk

[acp]

Hi Honk,

Interesting work, I too hope that Jacks valve shows better performance than an electromagnet. At any rate, Jack is a great craftsman.

Is that solonoid calculator you posted a pic of from the web? If so would you post a link to it?

Thanks


That pic Jack posted of the mechanical version of his valve reminds me of magnetic stands for dial guages we used to use when I worked in industry. You could place it on a metal table and either push a small button or twist a knob as in Jacks version, and it would then be stuck with great force to the table. pushing the button the other way would enable you to release the entire magnetic force, in order to take the stand of the table again.  I can't remember how hard one had to press the button to activate the magnetic force ( the button in the blue square in the image)



Regards

Albert

[Honk]

Here it is.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/magnetic/solenoid.html#c3

[Ergo]

Why is my reasoning flawed?  Why is it wrong if I want electromagnets with equal cross sectional areas in the comparison first? 

Regards
Gyula

Because you really need to find out if there is any gain of power in Jack's valve.
If a valve with an iron core is equally as strong as the valve containing the magnet
at 10W then we don't make use of the energy within the magnet to get more power.

When we talk about over unity we need to test our inventions the scientifically way.
We must keep an open mind and try to find out where the extra energy is coming from.
And when we use the Iron Core Valve it doe's not occupate more space than the
original Electro Magnet Valve in Jack's motor.
I see the risk of fooling ourselfs that we get free energy. But if we can't prove that
Jack's valve acctually is better than an equally sized electro magnet at 10W then we
will not get any free energy from the magnet valve. We have just replaced the energy
with static energy from a magnet that takes the same 10W to release.
This means "no gain" of free energy, thus no self runner.

Hey I have a question.  I have a valve made out of a three inch magnet, now this valve will pickup and hold 3,524 lbs when inergized with only 10 Watts.  I have tested it at a feed store at 3,100 lbs.   It totally turns loose of the load when the power is turned off.

Now my question is.   If you were to wind an electrical coil to make an electric magnet(not using any permanent magnets), how much could you get 10 watts to pickup and hold?  You could wind the electro magnet any way you like.  Just how much will 10 Watts pickup and hold?

Thanks,,,,,,Later,,,,,Jack W Hildenbrand

Hi Jack.

You said I could wind the electro magnet any way I'd like.
Then I choose to wind it exactly as you have made your valve but I would use a solid
iron core. Could you please test this and report the result here, Jack. Please, Please!!!
Before we have tried it this way we will never get an end to this discussion.