Joule Thief 101

[MileHigh]

Just because a mechanical device like an ICE or a sewing machine has all sorts of adjustments that are related to the cycle timing, it does not necessarily mean that said device "resonates."

Look, an ICE runs over a wide range of speeds does it not?  Meanwhile resonance happens at a single frequency.  When a sewing machine is sewing a seam is it resonating or is it simply sewing stitches at a certain operating frequency?  Note the sewing machine runs at variable speeds also.

The whole idea is simply wrong.

[Lidmotor]

Well if it is the cap that is some how self charging at this rate,then we had better look further into it,as the circuit has been cycling for two days now,without any meters or the scope hooked up to it-->to eliminate any chance that either may have been charging the cap. But as the cap dose not charge up with the circuit disconnected,then it's a sure thing it is not the cap that is self charging.

I connected a 10 meter length of wire as an antenna,and it made no difference at all to the charging rate???.


Brad

Brad:
  This is really good news.  My tests with super capacitors are similar to what you said about them not rebounding after being shorted for a long period of time.  They do bounce back some but not near enough to drive a circuit. You are getting energy into that thing from somewhere.  After you disconnected all the test gear then the only way the energy can be getting into the system is through the air.  That is ambient energy coming from somewhere.  If you gather up the experiment and put it in your backyard and it doesn't recharge that is still OK by me. Something in that room then is recharging the circuit.  I hope that you have a good handle on exactly how your setup is configured so that perhaps it can be replicated.

---Rusty

[MileHigh]

It does not mean it MUST,, but there are resonances that an ICE uses to its advantage,, maybe you could look up volumetric efficiency and how to improve it.

Your statement and comparison to a sewing machine indicates you do not have a lot of experience with ICE's,, I do.

Most people do not even know that the stroke is not symmetrical,, nor that in high performance engines the crank to wrist can have an offset angle and that the charges have mass and pressure that creates a resonance, this is where the peak power is made,, the length of the rod is also chosen carefully.

The parts may not when viewed as independent parts,, even if they are balanced to use the motions,, but the system as a whole does,, or can.

P.S.  the next time you use a sewing machine why don't you play with the bobbin and or spool tension

I did not compare an ICE to a sewing machine, you are making an inference that isn't there.  It makes no sense to then say that it indicates I don't have a lot of experience with ICEs.  Nonetheless the fact is you are right, I only have a lay person's knowledge of ICEs and I don't service or repair or maintain then.  It's all moot because we are not talking about ICEs except to state that they have nothing to do with resonance.

nor that in high performance engines the crank to wrist can have an offset angle and that the charges have mass and pressure that creates a resonance

What's resonating?  If you can't answer it, then what?

For sure you can tune hundreds of parameters for an ICE including the engine computer ROM, but it's not resonance.  Resonance really means something, it's not a word that you can just throw around.  The same thing applies to the simple Joule Thief.  The backdrop to all of this is this has been going on for years on the forums, the blind belief that all sorts of different circuits will be "more efficient" if they "resonate."  The problem is that people don't define what "efficiency" means and they don't define "resonance."  Ultimately it's a form of willful ignorance and fantasy talk.  That's what's happening with Brad right now.  He is taking it all as a given, and it's just the same old thing with the revolving door of resonance, and goes right back to an Einstein quote that I recently posted.

intake runners and scavenge waves and all sorts of things are "tuned".

Is there anything to do with resonance in that statement?  If so, what is resonating and how is it resonating?

I think part of the problem is that people simply ignore what resonance is and really means, or, they don't even know what it really is and what it really means.  I have already gone over that many times so I won't discuss it again.   Let's see if Brad can put any substance behind his meaningless resonance buzz word talk.

Ultimately this is a simple exercise in finding the truth and learning to stop deceiving yourselves.

MileHigh

[Magluvin]

Webby is correct about ICEs.  Some Ferrari( and possibly other high end cars) engines have actuators on sliding intake ports that change the length of the tubes to adjust to the rpm/freq of the engine.
Longer tubes provide better low end and shorter tubes provide better upper end.  It is called tuning. Like a radio in a sense. Tuning for a proper freq.

Mags

[tinman]

It does not mean it MUST,, but there are resonances that an ICE uses to its advantage,, maybe you could look up volumetric efficiency and how to improve it.

Your statement and comparison to a sewing machine indicates you do not have a lot of experience with ICE's,, I do.

Most people do not even know that the stroke is not symmetrical,, nor that in high performance engines the crank to wrist can have an offset angle and that the charges have mass and pressure that creates a resonance, this is where the peak power is made,, the length of the rod is also chosen carefully.

The parts may not when viewed as independent parts,, even if they are balanced to use the motions,, but the system as a whole does,, or can.

P.S.  the next time you use a sewing machine why don't you play with the bobbin and or spool tension

I would not think that MH could even grasp the fact that ICEs !do! operate best at resonant frequencies. If you ask him the reason for the large double cone shaped expansion chamber on a high performance two stroke engine,and what that has to do with the power band of the engine,he would be lost. He would not be able to explain as to how that !resonant! relationship between the expansion chamber of the exhaust and the engine actually sucks the exhaust gasses out of the cylinder at the right time,insuring that the cylinder is evacuated of all burnt fuels and gasses,and at the same time,draws in the next charge of fuel/air mix from the crankcase--there is a reason it is called the loop charge system.

The two stroke ICE and the JT are so much the same it's not funny,but MH cannot connect the dot's.
The timing on both is critical,where the source of energy has to be introduced into the system at a very precise time-with the ICE,that is the time you ignite the fuel,and with a JT,that is the time you switch on the transistor. In both cases,the desired outcome is to obtain maximum conversion of that energy source into a power output. If you get the timing wrong on either,then more of that energy source is converted into waste heat.

There is so many resonant factors in a two stroke engine that can increase it's performance, it's not funny. The fact that MH seems to think there is only one resonant frequency, just go's to show how little he knows. Even an inductor has multiple resonant frequencies--something i thought he would know.


Brad