Joule Thief 101

[MileHigh]

I can understand where Mags is coming from MH,as you do indeed bring much negativity to threads some times--well most times.
You insist we answer questions you ask of us within day's,but deem it reasonable that you may take up to 4-8 weeks to provide answers to your own questions.

I also have this feeling that your answers will be some very basic,and misguided attempt to explain how the resonant frequency of a wine glass is determined,and what resonance is--which is just the natural resonant frequency of an object set into oscillation at it's natural resonant frequency by an outside force.

Your answers will be basic,and part of what has already been explained in more detail already in this thread. There will be no big !CABOOM! answer from you in those long awaited 4-8 weeks,and those here waiting for MHs bible on resonance will be sadly disappointed .

Maybe we look into quasi resonance while your at it.
Maybe we could design a JT using this type of resonant switching --reduce the EMI losses and all

Brad

My "negativity" is mostly a response to your negativity Brad.  You are so obsessed with not being wrong or not being corrected or rewriting or challenging a question so that you are not perceived as being wrong that it is completely ridiculous.  It's a dirty cat fight with you and you start it almost all the time.  On top of that, sometimes there are these pregnant embarrassing moments where you say the most ridiculous nonsensical things and nobody says anything, and believe me that many people know you are putting your foot in your mouth.  You are given "a pass" because you supposedly wear some kind of halo and people reading you would be too embarrassed themselves to correct you.  And that's a big part of the reason that it is taking you more than six years to get through the equivalent of an Electronics 101 course.  Your own peers are letting you down by not challenging your whackadoo statements or correcting and educating you.  Then again, one can assume that they don't want to deal with your obsessive push-back to the point of lunacy if they are going to try to correct you.  Do you get that?  They don't want to deal with it and that makes you your own worst enemy.

You talk about being "misguided," you have got to be one of the most misguided people on this forum.  Your continual push-back spawns all of the negativity - poor little Brad can't be wrong - when the reality is that sometimes you are "not even wrong" or "beyond wrong."

You want an example of irrational relentless push-back spawning a lot of negativity?  Your battle about "something missing" in the question asking how the resonant frequency is determined for the wine glass is a classic example.  It's completely ridiculous as I showed you with the example of the maximum speed for a car.  You don't have to try to answer a question that wasn't even asked to twist yourself "into the clear."  Some people reading are aghast that you seemingly can't process or understand a simple question that simply asks you to explain something without needing specifics.  There are always questions asking people to explain the concept or the process without specifics.  We do this almost every single day in our daily lives and yet you want to insist that "something is wrong with the question."  The only reason you are saying that something is wrong with the question is because you can't answer it.  Or, even worse, you are not capable of dealing with concepts or processes because that simple basic abstraction is beyond your capabilities.

I am simply standing my ground this one time and I won't be demonized for that.  I am not even truly interested in this stuff and it's rare that I want to talk circuits.  Instead of you always getting "a pass" why not at least this one time follow this through to the end and see if you can learn something new, or even better, teach yourself something new?

The question of the build of "the resonant Joule Thief" has been put aside.  I suppose the only question is if Magluvin will report his results if they are negative.

Since you talked the big talk about resonance I brought up the issue of the resonating wine glass.  You and Smoky clearly have not been able to show you know what you are talking about - that's where it stands like it or not.

You are going to wait for a few more weeks to see if you or Smoky will teach yourselves because that is a lot better than getting spoon fed.  To be honest part of the wait is karma that you brought onto yourself as clearly evidenced earlier in this thread.

Like it or not, you should respect me for being honest with you about the resonance stuff.  Like it or not, you got some blunt talk about your continual obsessive push-back.  Your buddies on this forum mostly give you a pass when you state the most ridiculous totally incorrect things and that just keeps you in a stupor.  Sorry to be harsh, but I can see that the boys have all picked up stones and they want to hurl them at me.  Shame on anyone that does that, go read "The Lottery" again and bow your heads in shame.

MileHigh

[minnie]

   Why not stick to what the book says. Words have different meanings in the
context in which they are used.
    For engines the best description would be Inertial Supercharging.
A lot of day to day words were used in early electrical work because they
had a likeness to what was observed.

[Nink]

There are lots of really smart people on here. Some people are book smart (masters and PhD's), some people are hands on (mechanical and electrical engineers),  some people are lateral thinkers, designing new solutions (Architects and Inventors) and we also have the scamers, fakers and crazy folks who keep us entertained. 

Everyone here brings their unique skill sets to this forum and they are all extremely valuable.  I have been corrected many times by MH, Tinman, TK and others and like others and I am not very good at admitting when I am wrong.   I will also admit I will dig my heals in when I see large amounts of money being invested in dead end technology or scams.

I think we all need to pick our battles but I am not sure there is a lot of value in arguing for the sake of it and we should not assume someone is admitting they are wrong by walking away from a thread, sometimes it is just not worth the effort when time would be invested better on exposing the next ELFE or u-Plug or pushing the boundaries through innovation and new proof of concepts.

Just my 2 joules

Nink

[MileHigh]

Nink:

You make a lot of good points.  I suppose one of the things that I take issue with is self-delusion because it is a parallel to the scammers out there that use illusion and lying to steal money from people.  Self-delusion is arguably self-scamming and illusion and lying without money.  You become your own enemy.  What's stolen instead is the "currency" of self-honesty and advancing your knowledge.  The glacier ends up melting instead of going forward.

Resonance is interesting and has some applications.  But what it is not, is some magic panacea like the self-deluded want to preach.

Take a look at the example of the "resonant Joule Thief."  Right now it is just an idea, no more than that.  It's doesn't even exist and the improved performance attributes that are almost literally claimed about it as fact are no more than hopes and wishes.

However, this thread was stating that it was taken for granted that a "resonant Joule thief" was doable and it was just a question of "finding it."  At this point in time it's just a hope, and the alleged improved performance is just a hope.  I am all for hope, but when it comes to electronics, rational analysis comes first and hope second.

"Resonant Joule Thief?"  Bring it on we are all waiting for it but wise people will be taking nothing as a given just because you have the word "resonance" in the description.

Resonant anything?  Somebody post or link to something that is supposedly "outside the box" and is supposedly "more efficient" and let's take an honest look at it.

Go ahead, link or post something that shows something remarkable about resonance.   Anybody?

Moving on, we will see if the boys can master the concept of the resonating wine glass.  If not, the answers will be given later.

Then that's it, there is no point in taking it any further than that.   Just don't be surprised if you never see a resonant Joule Thief and you never see anything described or linked to that shows something remarkable or outside-the-box with respect to resonance.  If that's the case, then people need to ask themselves why all of this buzz about resonance?  What you will see through, is the two questions about the wine glass answered.

Then that's it, time to move on.  I am proud of being part of a movement that possibly helped to shut down Hydroenergyrevolution and Intelligentry.  Law enforcement surely uses Google, and they landed on threads on this forum.  That's my real satisfaction.  I have put any attempts to educate or help others way back on the back back burner.  This thread is an exception and I have no problem simply walking away at the right time.

The issue of a "resonant Joule Thief" is not a "given" that you just have to "find" like some people want you to believe.  Learn about what resonance truly is as a first step at least.

MileHigh

[Magluvin]

My "negativity" is mostly a response to your negativity Brad.  You are so obsessed with not being wrong or not being corrected or rewriting or challenging a question so that you are not perceived as being wrong that it is completely ridiculous.  It's a dirty cat fight with you and you start it almost all the time.  On top of that, sometimes there are these pregnant embarrassing moments where you say the most ridiculous nonsensical things and nobody says anything, and believe me that many people know you are putting your foot in your mouth.  You are given "a pass" because you supposedly wear some kind of halo and people reading you would be too embarrassed themselves to correct you.  And that's a big part of the reason that it is taking you more than six years to get through the equivalent of an Electronics 101 course.  Your own peers are letting you down by not challenging your whackadoo statements or correcting and educating you.  Then again, one can assume that they don't want to deal with your obsessive push-back to the point of lunacy if they are going to try to correct you.  Do you get that?  They don't want to deal with it and that makes you your own worst enemy.

You talk about being "misguided," you have got to be one of the most misguided people on this forum.  Your continual push-back spawns all of the negativity - poor little Brad can't be wrong - when the reality is that sometimes you are "not even wrong" or "beyond wrong."

You want an example of irrational relentless push-back spawning a lot of negativity?  Your battle about "something missing" in the question asking how the resonant frequency is determined for the wine glass is a classic example.  It's completely ridiculous as I showed you with the example of the maximum speed for a car.  You don't have to try to answer a question that wasn't even asked to twist yourself "into the clear."  Some people reading are aghast that you seemingly can't process or understand a simple question that simply asks you to explain something without needing specifics.  There are always questions asking people to explain the concept or the process without specifics.  We do this almost every single day in our daily lives and yet you want to insist that "something is wrong with the question."  The only reason you are saying that something is wrong with the question is because you can't answer it.  Or, even worse, you are not capable of dealing with concepts or processes because that simple basic abstraction is beyond your capabilities.

I am simply standing my ground this one time and I won't be demonized for that.  I am not even truly interested in this stuff and it's rare that I want to talk circuits.  Instead of you always getting "a pass" why not at least this one time follow this through to the end and see if you can learn something new, or even better, teach yourself something new?

The question of the build of "the resonant Joule Thief" has been put aside.  I suppose the only question is if Magluvin will report his results if they are negative.

Since you talked the big talk about resonance I brought up the issue of the resonating wine glass.  You and Smoky clearly have not been able to show you know what you are talking about - that's where it stands like it or not.

You are going to wait for a few more weeks to see if you or Smoky will teach yourselves because that is a lot better than getting spoon fed.  To be honest part of the wait is karma that you brought onto yourself as clearly evidenced earlier in this thread.

Like it or not, you should respect me for being honest with you about the resonance stuff.  Like it or not, you got some blunt talk about your continual obsessive push-back.  Your buddies on this forum mostly give you a pass when you state the most ridiculous totally incorrect things and that just keeps you in a stupor.  Sorry to be harsh, but I can see that the boys have all picked up stones and they want to hurl them at me.  Shame on anyone that does that, go read "The Lottery" again and bow your heads in shame.

MileHigh

First off....

"I am simply standing my ground this one time and I won't be demonized for that.  I am not even truly interested in this stuff and it's rare that I want to talk circuits.  Instead of you always getting "a pass" why not at least this one time follow this through to the end and see if you can learn something new, or even better, teach yourself something new?"

The problem I have with standing your ground is the constant filling of pages of it.  How can anyone move forward 'efficiently' when referencing my previous posts are pages behind all the debate. Its terribly frustrating. Thats like reading a Bible that has atheist debate strewn throughout making that Bible 30 inches thick instead of just 2 inches.    Maybe its better to debate a topic in a new thread, instead of flooding one where people are trying to 'do' things.

Where I stand on the resonance thing is that I know it exists, whether it is a big heavy bell, a wine glass, or simply a coils inductance with its capacitance. If I can find the resonant freq of a winding on a core, why should I get involved in a debate about hows and whys the resonance occurs when I and Smoky and Brad already know why.  Inductance and capacitance together is all we need to understand. If we can determine the freq of that resonance, why should we have to be haggled into describing the nano bits of why its happening when we already know it is there?

I just cannot work like that. It will be a never ending deal.  Ive seen where you have opened your own threads on subjects you want to discuss. But they tend to end up just dead from the get go. Hint hint.  So you tend to bring it all where the people are. And soon those threads die down from other getting tired of it all. Im not going to open a new thread only to see it covered in what we have here. "It cant be done"   "you guys dont know what resonance is" "Ill tell you what it is in 4 to 8 weeks"   Page after page after page.  The only one getting off on it is you.  Do you see any happy people here?

My mom had a slight stroke last week and it put a lot of things off for me here.  Just finishing the GTI system tonight and Ill have a good amount of time for the bench.
If things dont work out with the resonance deal, then I will find out why and post as to such. But I wont be posting every day details here as they will just get smeared into the background. Ill do it in once in a while longer posts.

Gotta git back to work. Lunch time is spent.

Mags