Joule Thief 101

[MileHigh]

Brad:

A Joule Thief and an ICE can both be looked upon as synchronous machines and there is no resonant frequency associated with them.  If you optimize a standard Joule Thief or an ICE to get maximum efficiency that is not resonance.  I acknowledge a small subsystem on an ICE can use resonant techniques to improve performance, but the entire ICE itself is a synchronous machine, and not a resonant machine.  You are going to have to find a new type of Joule Thief if you want it to truly have a resonant frequency.  Then you will have to demonstrate the resonance itself, and that ties into the reason I brought up the resonating wine glass.

I am not going to make any comment at all about the resonating wine glass.  The point is to give people the opportunity to answer the questions themselves if they choose to.  Or if they can't answer the questions and they have to do their own research, the hope is that they have a "Eureka!" moment and it all comes clear to them and they answer both questions successfully.  Then they can apply that knowledge to their research.  Of course anybody is free to answer the questions.

I will immediately acknowledge anybody that answers the questions successfully and then I will give the answers the way I would word them myself.

With respect to Johan and Chet and the "resonating" two-stroke motorcycle engine, I have asked for details several times and have gotten no response at all to my follow-up questions asking for some substance.  I would not surprised if I never get a response.  If that's the case, then we all know we see that on threads all the time.  It's a pain in the ass because it means that people are BSing each other and just stroking each other.  They are saying stuff and making claims without anything to back it up and chances are they don't even know what they are talking about.  It's a "brain copy/paste."  That's the reason I asked the questions about the wine glass.  With the wine glass there is no "brain copy/paste" or faking it or spoon feeding - you really have to show your "stuff" and back it up with the real thing.  Now if Johan and Chet do come back and provide the requested details, that will be a different thing entirely.  But right now all that I am sensing is a "drive by" posting.

MileHigh

[MileHigh]

I know I am repeating myself but it's easy for the questions to get lost in the thread so here they are again:

How does a wine glass resonate, what is the mechanism?
How is the resonant frequency of a wine glass determined?

Note the responses must be simple, four sentences or less for each response.

[tinman]

for those of you who wish to truly understand "resonance":
a 4-cylinder engine represents the 1/4 wavelength, like 1/2 of the JT circuit. (mismatched impedance)
1/4 is the 3rd resonant freq of the 1/2, as is the 1/2 to its' 6th resonant freq of the ferrite.

Thus, it is easier to get a 4-banger to "resonate", than it is a two-stroke engine.
I would explain this further, but it is quite frankly, irrelevant.
For a two-stroke ICE to become "resonant", we have to redesign the entire system to do so.
It is not just some random RPM that the engine achieves.
the problem is much more complicated than that.

Well i hope your excluding me from the statement about the two stroke motor itself being resonant,as i have only been referring to resonant systems that exist within the two stroke engine as a whole to increase both performance and efficiency by way of acoustical resonance.

What is resonance in scientific terms.
Quote:In physics, resonance is a phenomenon that occurs when a vibrating system or external force drives another system to oscillate with greater amplitude at a specific preferential frequency.
Apparently this dose not fit in with MHs terms and conditions for resonance--but too bad.

Patented Resonant systems within a two stroke engine(fully explained) that improve both efficiency and power output--as defined by the terms of physics,and also explained by myself some pages back.

http://www.google.com.au/patents/US3254484
ACOUSTICAL RESONANCE APPARATUS FOR IN- CREASING THE POWER OUTPUT F AN INTER- NAL COMBUSTIGN ENGINE John Stephen Kapper, Henry Whitfield House, Guilford, Conn. Filed Jan. 23, 1964, Ser. No. 339,625 7 Claims. (Cl. 60-32) My invention relates to acoustical apparatus for increasing the horsepower output and efficiency of naturally aspirated internal' combustion engines by manipulating acoustical effects normally occurring in the exhaust and intake gas columns of such engines. More specifically, the invention relates to means for manipulating sound pressure waves in relation to the intake and exhaust systems of naturally aspirated internal combustion engines, and to means for manually or automatically adjusting the effective acoustical length of the exhaust and intake systems of an engine while the engine is operating and to the addition of resonator and/ or sound generators to such exhaust and intake systems in order to: (l) utilize sound pressure waves to assist cylinder charging and cylinder scavenging; (2) achieve resonance of the gas columns in the intake and exhaust systems at all engine speeds and thus increase the amplitude of the sound pressure waves and their resultant effect on cylinder charging and cylinder scavenging; and (3) increase the amplitude of the sound pressure waves .in the exhaust and intake systems still further by means of secondary resonators and/or sound generators.

There are a list of such patents that refer to much the same resonant state's,and as can be clearly seen,also comply with the meaning of resonance within the spectrum of physics.


Brad

[sm0ky2]

@ Brad



while this has little to do with the resonance of the engine itself,
synchronization within the intake/exhaust flows of the ICE, can affect efficiency.
this is defined by the equation for the engines "back pressure".
at too low a pressure, the engine has no torque.
at too high a pressure, the engine backfires.

catalytic converters and mufflers are designed with this equation in mind.

using the diameter and length of the exhaust pipe, in certain locations
one can determine the pulse frequency of the exhaust, with respect to the resonant frequency of the pipe.
when these two are at a coherent resonant node, the flow of exhaust is least impeded by the force of the engines exhaust.
This adds to the HP equation, during the evacuation stage of the combustion chamber.

results = increase in fuel efficiency

this is not engine resonance, this pertains to the frequency of the engine, with respect to the resonant frequency of the exhaust system.

This goes back to my earlier statement, about certain portions of the system being in resonance, but not the system as a whole.
This is more of a synchronization of the engine rpm, with the resonant cavity of the exhaust.

Do you see the difference?

the exhaust may be resonating, but the engine, with respect to the oscillations, and the dimensions of the chamber containing the driveshaft,
is nowhere near its' resonant freq.

neither is resonant between the engine and alternator, engine and water pump, engine and cooling fan, etc.

[tinman]

 author=MileHigh link=topic=8341.msg476897#msg476897 date=1457596799]




MileHigh

A Joule Thief and an ICE can both be looked upon as synchronous machines and there is no resonant frequency associated with them.  If you optimize a standard Joule Thief or an ICE to get maximum efficiency that is not resonance.  I acknowledge a small subsystem on an ICE can use resonant techniques to improve performance, but the entire ICE itself is a synchronous machine, and not a resonant machine.

I never once claimed that the ICE it self was in resonance. What i said that there were various resonant systems that exist within an ICE that improve both performance and efficiency.
Is this not what the whole !resonance! ordeal is about?--showing how resonance can increase efficiency. You stated that there was no resonance at all associated with an ICE,and i provided the resonant systems that do indeed reside within a two stroke ICE.

You are going to have to find a new type of Joule Thief if you want it to truly have a resonant frequency.  Then you will have to demonstrate the resonance itself, and that ties into the reason I brought up the resonating wine glass.

As i have stated very clearly all along,i am not bound by your one particular JT circuit MH. The JT is an effect provided by a circuit--it is not a single circuit.

I am not going to make any comment at all about the resonating wine glass.  The point is to give people the opportunity to answer the questions themselves if they choose to.  Or if they can't answer the questions and they have to do their own research, the hope is that they have a "Eureka!" moment and it all comes clear to them and they answer both questions successfully.  Then they can apply that knowledge to their research.  Of course anybody is free to answer the questions.

And who is to decide that the question has been answered correctly MH?--you?
So far,your track record and knowledge is far to low to be making any such judgement on who is correct ,and who is not.

I will immediately acknowledge anybody that answers the questions successfully and then I will give the answers the way I would word them myself.

And how is it that !your! wording will be the !holy bible!-the be all and end all of the correct answers to your questions.

With respect to Johan and Chet and the "resonating" two-stroke motorcycle engine, I have asked for details several times and have gotten no response at all to my follow-up questions asking for some substance.  I would not surprised if I never get a response.  If that's the case, then we all know we see that on threads all the time.

MH
I have provided such information some pages back in this thread. I provided a description in my own word's,and a more in/depth description in the links i provided,on one of the existing resonant systems in a two stroke ICE.

It's a pain in the ass because it means that people are BSing each other and just stroking each other.  They are saying stuff and making claims without anything to back it up and chances are they don't even know what they are talking about.

Such as those that cannot provide the needed information regarding determining a vehicles top speed. Also the fact that you still do not know what you missed, shows that you are not as smart as you thought you were.

Why is it that i picked up on your needed missing information as soon as i read your post about determining the top speed of a car,but as yet you do not know what it is?. How is it then that you think you have a better understanding about your own questions than those that see mistake after mistake from you?.

No resonance associated with an ICE,where that resonance is as per physics specifications >wrong
Your cool joule circuit dose !not! operate due to the miller effect/ capacitance-->wrong
This is all you need to determine the top speed of a car-->wrong.

After all these mistake's,you still deem your self worthy of determining !what! determines the resonant frequency in a wine glass,and !what! is resonance.

It's a "brain copy/paste."  That's the reason I asked the questions about the wine glass.  With the wine glass there is no "brain copy/paste" or faking it or spoon feeding - you really have to show your "stuff" and back it up with the real thing.  Now if Johan and Chet do come back and provide the requested details, that will be a different thing entirely.  But right now all that I am sensing is a "drive by" posting.

It will make no difference what they post MH,as you will just skip on past it(as you did with mine-on a number of occasions now),and say they have posted nothing at all. This is what you do all the time MH,and it started way back before the wine glass saga,and ICE saga.


Brad