Joule Thief 101

[tinman]

 author=MileHigh link=topic=8341.msg481025#msg481025 date=1460864612]



MileHigh

You damn well know it's true.  People can sense that's it's true.  Many people were witness to it.  It was a shameful episode in your life and when you make light of it here you are just bluffing and you are just shaming yourself some more.  We both know the truth.

Doh--careful with that English MH,people may not understand you.
It would appear that you had several of those shameful episodes on this thread MH

I have talked tough to Brad. .

LMAO.  You call that !tough! talk MH?--where do you hide?.

I don't know why Brad can't seem to understand basic things that we should all take for granted

Like resonant systems in ICEs,and simple electronic components like the J/FET

Take the example of determining the resonant frequency of a wine glass.  First, he insisted that he had to have specifics, and there was no other possible way to answer the question.  So are we supposed to believe that Brad can't understand what a conceptual question is or how to answer it?  So then I told him to create his own specific parameters and answer the question.  He clammed up and said nothing.

Your question has two correct answer MH,as it !CAN! be taken in two ways !correctly!.
I give you a wine glass--how are you going to determine the resonant frequency of that wine glass? When you start on your quest to answer that,you will now be determining the resonant frequency of that wine glass.
I give you a length of 2x4 timber--how are you going to determine the length of that piece of timber?.
I !!DID!! provide you with a correct answer to that question.
So you saying i was wrong--well in actual fact i was correct
Determine--ascertain or establish exactly by research or calculation.
Oh-could they mean !measure it ! ?

Then I answered the question and he went on a tirade saying repeatedly that the answers were wrong.  Then I rebutted that and then he clammed up and said nothing.  That can be taxing, believe me, and the arguments can get heated.

You should go back and read my answers again MH--to your big reveal results that is.
I clearly state that !some! of your given answers are correct,and some are wrong--like !all! the energy is stored as kinetic energy.  That is wrong,and you know that.

Why don't you take up the issue of determining a car's top speed and argue with him that it has to be done on a flat surface and not a sloped surface?  Go ahead, what is stopping you?

Yes Mag's-do that. I can show you how they determine the top speed of a car--without using HP or frictions as factors as MH states. We can look at torque V HP. Is it an uphill race car,or a flat track race car,the family car maybe?.

Believe me, if you are going to stand your ground and argue common sense against nonsense, it's going to get heated.

Or vulgar when the blood pressure rises--hey MH

And just the fact that you sit there with your own mouth clammed shut says a lot.  You are fully aware that for every one of the "main battles" if the arguments were set on a mainstream science forum Brad would be sliced to pieces.

Wonder how a bloke that dosnt know what a simple electronic component !like a J/FET ! is--wonder how he would go?. Or makes claims on something he knows very little about--like resonant systems in and around ICEs-wonder how he would go?. Or maybe by claiming that !!all!! the energy is stored as kinetic energy in a vibrating wine glass--wonder how he would go?.

And I am pretty sure for most of them you agree with me.

And ultimately I am trying to help Brad.

post 976-is you making a complete and utter idiot of yourself
post 977- you have some serious limitations
post 982-An ICE itself excluding the intake and exhaust doesn't make use of resonance.Stop making a complete fool of yourself.
post 1000-What you say in that post is utter rubbish.  There is no such thing as a "flow of charge into a magnetic center
That must be where you have worked out what the magnetic field/force is,as i know you wouldnt post something like that if you did not know what the magnetic field/force is
post 1003-That posting of yours is complete and utter rubbish
post 1008-Sure Brad, "charge flows into magnetic centers."  That's a new one for the "Bizarro World Book of Brad's Electronics
MH is full bottles on the magnetic field now
post 1017-So, you are exposed as a fraud and a BSer.
post 1023-You are like a really bad actor in a really bad 1952 sci-fi movie
post 1025-Stop being a clown.--well that one was short and sweet lol.
post 1054-Have you ever heard the expression, "Do stupid things, win stupid prizes?"  Your stupid prize is the four to eight week delay,--Holly S--t,i won a prize 
post 1059-My ass, you clearly don't know what you are talking about.
post 1081- You don't really know how a transistor works. Well that is odd,coming from some one that dosnt know how a J/FET works
post 1081-you are as fake-ass as a three-dollar bill
post 1090-This is just you demonstrating your limitations again .Lowering the value of the base resistor will not fundamentally change the brightness of the LED because it's the battery voltage itself that is the primary factor in determining the brightness of the LED
Oh dear
post 1093-So how lost are you Brad when it comes to the Joule Thief?
Apparently not as lost as you,looking at your above statement.
post 1101-No Brad, it's very clear now that a lot of your thoughts about how the Joule Thief operates were delusional.-Says he who thinks voltage is power.
post 1104-The clip is awful, an embarrassment.
post 1119-so why is your setup running somewhere between 20 kHz and 30 kHz  Well your the ex/spurt on JTs MH--why is it?.
post 1135-That's it Brad, be a clown one more time and make a fool of yourself
post 1136-I am going to have to take my statement back and qualify it.  On closer inspection of your scope shot I can see that indeed the base waveform is showing that the transistor is ON and you are correct that the level is 800 mllivolts.
Doh
post 1137-When you decrease the base resistance the operating frequency lowers and thus the energizing time for the main L1 coil increases - obviously that can lead to a brighter LED
Hang on a minute -post 1090-This is just you demonstrating your limitations again .Lowering the value of the base resistor will not fundamentally change the brightness of the LED because it's the battery voltage itself that is the primary factor in determining the brightness of the LED
There were calls of yes/no/yes/no,and finally MH came to the conclusion that !as tinman said! decreasing the base resistance will indeed make the LED brighter. This should then answer the continual asking of the question by MH !!why is there a need for a base resistor!!
But MH is never wrong about how a JT operates.
post 1138-So you can't claim any "victory" because your light meter can detect increasing brightness in the LED.  You just stumbled upon this effect, and your theory for why the LED was supposed to get brighter makes no sense at all.
Doh-back to the same old MH.
Post 1139-bill disagrees with MH--MHs response to bill-It's a great issue you raised and I don't have an answer
Well at least you can treat some people with respect when they disagree with you MH--aint that a hoot
post 1165-Junction capacitance my ass Lol.

post 1209-Find the information yourself.

Claim made my MH in this reply--Quote: And ultimately I am trying to help Brad


Wow,not even half way there yet--think it will need another post to finish. But what an insight when you go back--way back,and re read the thread

I dont think im liking your !!help!! so much MH.

Oh,and dont forget them questions MH--i have added the information you required.


Brad

[tinman]

And ultimately I am trying to help Brad.  Why should he just do his thing in an artificial world that is fake, only to arrive at a rude awakening in the real world one day?  Why can't we argue things out with some kind of normal frame of reference, a commonly understood general understanding?

post 1232-The Night of the Living Joule Thief Zombies" - featuring the infallible Dr. Brainfry.  Coming to a theater near you.  Just remember it's all fantasy.
post 1240-No, you are wrong.  The standard Joule Thief circuit is more efficient than the second circuit.
It turns out that the second circuit(one with the LED across the L1 coil) is more efficient,as it removes the batteries internal resistive losses from the circuit during the off time of the circuit.
post 1253-garbage-in-garbage-out and clearly your statements are garbage without any substance behind them.
post 1253-Most of your experiments, after six years of working on the bench, are amateurish.Your presentation skills are almost non-existent.
Keep pushing that propaganda Big Brother.
post 1255-Ha ha ha... The drama queen is making yet another hasty exit.The infallible Dr. Brainfry
post 1259-Kiss my butt Smoky2-->smokey receives a kiss

MH hits the next gear.
Post 1285-There you go you pathetic sleazy little weasel.  Why should anybody trust you at all?
The revenge of Dr. Brainfry, his head is turning bright purple
post 1287-Here you weasel
post 1290-I think it could be an indication that you have some serious psychological problems.
post 1293-Dr. Brainfry is having a brain seizure.
post 1294-And lo and behold it turns out that Dr. Brainfry can't answer two simple questions
post 1305-I am getting exhausted with the stream-of-consciousness/churning spaghetti/brain-ricochet talk from you.  It's like you need a bloody Google translator just for you.  Throw in the ridiculous immature trash talk that is embarrassing and you are left with Dr. Brainfry on overload.
This was due to MHs screw up about the spike traveling through the collector to base junction. Latter on he realized his mistake,and worked out that it should have been through the !emitter! base junction-and not through the collector/base junction.
post 1317-Did you see Brad repeatedly attacking me with a bunch of unwarranted nonsense?.Don't you give me your crap without looking at the other side
Maybe it was lost in all your abuse MH>?
post 1318-Yes, I was part of the mass confusion here and I looked back in the thread.  In post #1191 I speculated that there was a collector-base breakdown.  Then in post #1199 PW confirms an emitter-base breakdown.  Only much more recently did I start thinking about a possible emitter-base junction breakdown
Well at least on a couple of occasions you have admitted you were wrong.
post 1340- But the actual engine itself, the pistons, the valves, the camshaft, the crankcase, the ignition, etc, has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with resonance.
Opps-MH having another go at resonant systems of an ICE. We all know what the outcome was there
post 1349-That's just silly nit-picky BS because I am using common vernacular to describe the combustion in the cylinder.  It's gratuitous nonsense.  Why are you ignoring what is actually being stated, that resonance inside the cylinder is no good?
But i thought it did not exist?.
post 1370-The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is

Post 1389-Both EMJunkie and Wattsup could not answer the very same simple question that I posed to them about a coil.
OH yea-thanks for reminding me about those questions MH

The J/FET saga.
Post 1339-Me-->Yes,and my idea using a J/FET never came from any book.
Common sense say's that if there is not enough voltage to switch on a transistor or mosfet,then you use one that is already in an on state,and boost the voltage via a step up transformer to switch the fet off.
Post 1450-by our resident guru-->Yeah well I would have to say that that doesn't make any sense at all.  But don't let that stop you since this whole thread is filled with nonsensical statements by you and just about nobody says anything about it.
Post 1456-Thanks, and I made a mistake an assumed that a JFET required some Gate-Source voltage to be ON, when that is not the case.  So I retract my statement to Brad in post #1450 about it "not making any sense at all" because clearly I was wrong.
Cheers MH
post 1484-You have been treated normally by me
Hell MH,i'd hate to see your !treating people badly! then.

Post 1484- And there is no fucking apostrophe in "questions."  Demonstrate that you can learn something.
Now the bad language has kicked in.

same post-And there is no fucking apostrophe in "yours.
You can kiss my ass with your bullshit statement
Yuk
The main operation on an ICE is a synchronous machine and has nothing whatsoever to do with resonance.Screw you with your Brad's Bizarro World of anti-logic
Kiss my ass Brad with your stupid-ass gratuitous nonsense
You have buried yourself into your own deep dark chasm, you are one creepy dude that can't handle things and you lose your composure and throw away all of your personal integrity.
I have lost composure? lol. Well much said in that post.
post 1507-Beyond that, your argument that you "proved there is resonance" in an ICE is so absolutely ridiculous that you have to wonder what planet you are on.You can go back to your deluded fake-ass dream world .

post 1507- You should hook up with EMJunkie and you two can stroke each other up
More profanities MH?.
post 1510-I don't know if the quote above is due to your complete and total lack of critical thinking skills and total blindness to any kind of context, or, if it is just more completely useless trash talk. Either way, it is a total fail.
post 1534-Good, so that patent shows a resonant cavity in the combustion chamber can be used to improve the performance of a two-stroke engine.
Oh-bet that one hurt MH.
post 1535-So you are the very definition of stupidity in this case.

post 1569-His brain started frying at the beginning of the thread because he was in shock when someone actually started telling him that he was wrong.  Now he has turned himself into The Infallible Doctor Brainfry like some character right out of a comic book. 
Post 1574-MHs attempt at a redirection--No way, it's a tie.  You were supposed to show how resonance improved the combustion process
No,i was showing you were wrong again when you stated-->But the actual engine itself, the pistons, the valves, the camshaft, the crankcase, the ignition, etc, has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with resonance
So yes-proven wrong.
Post 1577-Bla bla my ass Dr. Brainfry.
Post 1581- At least on this thread you will get the truth from me
Yes, I was unaware that there are ways to take advantage of resonance in a cylinder during combustion, and also for getting better air flow into and out of the cylinders.  I never claimed to be an expert in engines.
post 1562-You're a whack job.-oh ,that was to another member of the forum.
post 1588-Have you turned into a borderline psycho person because of this thread?  The answer is yes.Keep on repeating I am wrong until you are blue in the face and your brain sizzles and smoke starts rising
post 1594-You are so crippled in your communications skills it's almost unbelievable
Post 1695-this thread has turned you into a borderline psycho person
post 1612-Look up "spaghetti brains" in the visual dictionary and you will find a picture of yourself. LOL You need to go back to school and take some courses in English
post 1616-Your credibility is destroyed, poor Brad on a brain fry from hell.
post 1617-Nope, I speak the truth but ever since your brain started to fry you have been shamelessly bullshitting like crazy.More shameless lying and you are off in dreamland with your incorrect belief that magnets can do useful work

Post 1618-At this point, it's time for this to stop.
This is good
Post 1652-Brad: I really don't give a rat's ass.
Oh bugga.

Post 1619 is interesting,as here are the two original questions about the wine glass
How does a wine glass resonate, what is the mechanism?
How is the resonant frequency of a wine glass determined?
!how! is the resonant frequency of a wine glass determined?.

Post 1739-Said from the Choir of One Hand W***ing.

And that is where it starts getting bad.

And ultimately I am trying to help Brad

Thanks-but no thanks MH.


Brad

[MileHigh]

There were calls of yes/no/yes/no,and finally MH came to the conclusion that !as tinman said! decreasing the base resistance will indeed make the LED brighter. This should then answer the continual asking of the question by MH !!why is there a need for a base resistor!!
But MH is never wrong about how a JT operates.

That says it all right there.  I tried to impress upon Brad that the basic Joule Thief is supposed to have a fixed value for the base resistor and varying the value of the base resistor makes no sense on a fundamental level.  Nor does it change the brightness of the LED for reasons that were explained multiple times, all in the context of the normal operation of the device.

But Brad would have none of it.  From what I can remember he made no attempt to understand any of this.  This manic scanning through all of the postings shows how it is pretty much hopeless.

[tinman]

 author=MileHigh link=topic=8341.msg481035#msg481035 date=1460881284]
 

That says it all right there.  I tried to impress upon Brad that the basic Joule Thief is supposed to have a fixed value for the base resistor and varying the value of the base resistor makes no sense on a fundamental level.

Well as we are on a thread that is devoted to improving the JT,why would we be sticking to the MH JT?. On a fundamental level,decreasing the base resistance as the battery voltage drop's makes perfect sense,as it insures that the base of the transistor receives the required amount of current to switch on properly as the battery voltage drops below the switch on voltage of the transistor. This also in turn allows the current in the :1 winding to keep to a higher level,and thus the LED will remain !to some what! the same brightness as the batteries voltage drop's.

We have been through this before MH,and i posted video's showing the very principle of being able to reduce the base resistance as the battery voltage drop's. So this makes your above statement non sensible.

Nor does it change the brightness of the LED for reasons that were explained multiple times, all in the context of the normal operation of the device.

And your reasons were !once again! proven wrong--my video's clearly showed that.
Bench work MH--thats what it's all about when we need the truth.

But Brad would have none of it.  From what I can remember he made no attempt to understand any of this.

Brad tested your !theory!,and found it to be wrong.
We seen it on the scope,and we seen it by way of the light meter.

This manic scanning through all of the postings shows how it is pretty much hopeless.

All of the post MH--this is a lie.
I only got half way through them--and what a great bit of research it was
I was looking for this !help! you said you were trying to give me,but as it turns out,through the half of the thread i reviewed,i was the one helping you out most of the time.
You now know resonant systems around ICEs,help increase both efficiency and power.
You now know that internal resonant systems exist in ICEs that also improve engine performance.
You now know that a J/FET requires no gate voltage to conduct.
You now know that current can flow from the emitter to the base,and not from the collector through to the base as you had thought--once again,my bench experiments showed this.
You now know that reducing the base resistance on your JT circuit,dose indeed make the LED brighter--once again,shown by way of my bench experiments.
You now know that your question !how is the resonant frequency of a wine glass determined!! has to very correct meanings--1 of which i answered correctly.

In fact MH,i have taught you many things on this thread,and we are starting to sort out your Theory from actual  fact by way of bench experiments. This is a great day for the forum --it's what it's all about--helping others to learn. Encouraging other to help those that ask for it,and not telling other members not to help a fellow experimenter--that would be against the good will of this forum-now wouldnt it
And your welcome--glad i could help.

Now,about those questions ?
Are you happy that the required information needed is there?


Brad

[MileHigh]

You just don't get it Brad, not in the least bit.