STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM

[PaulLowrance]

@paullowrance what was the metglas serial in your miniorbo? I have one type of non-sq & square.

It's P4AS04IG. The S means it's a square loop. An F would mean flat loop. Your P4AF001G is a flat loop. I have no idea what that L4AS01DU core is.

[exnihiloest]

...
The two directions would cancel out each other and act the same as with no magnets at all EXCEPT the permeability will have changed, lowering the inductance.
...

It is right that "the two directions cancel out each other". But you must say what is canceled!
It is wrong to think that moving each domain alignment is done at no price.
When you initialize the rotation of two contra-rotating wheels, the whole angular momentum of the sytem is null but you have to do work to do it. The angular momentum is canceled but energy is needed.

With lower inductance it will take less energy to saturate the core.
As the magnets move away, the inductance will increase and energy will be gained.

No. The energy density is B²/(2*mu). Mu is B dependant: when B decreases, mu increases (de-saturation), thus the energy density decreases. We guess what is going on: work is expended against the magnet movement, because it is attracted back by the ferrite core.

Although, the waiting for the magnets to move away will consume more energy than what can be gained.
Unless the approach by the magnets was slower and produced free energy longer and the retract was shorter and consumed less energy!

Work is not time depending. The energy used to move anything from point A at potential Pa, to point B at potential Pb, depends only on the potential difference (here a magnetic potential). It does not depend on the time to move it.
It is the saturation that changes here the potential at the TDC point, and this is done at the price of energy expenditure for changing the aligments in the magnetic domains as seen above.

[PaulLowrance]

How to make a magnetic levitation bearing out of common cube magnets:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8707.msg228593#msg228593

[lumen]

It is right that "the two directions cancel out each other". But you must say what is canceled!
It is wrong to think that moving each domain alignment is done at no price.
When you initialize the rotation of two contra-rotating wheels, the whole angular momentum of the sytem is null but you have to do work to do it. The angular momentum is canceled but energy is needed.

No. The energy density is B²/(2*mu). Mu is B dependant: when B decreases, mu increases (de-saturation), thus the energy density decreases. We guess what is going on: work is expended against the magnet movement, because it is attracted back by the ferrite core.

Work is not time depending. The energy used to move anything from point A at potential Pa, to point B at potential Pb, depends only on the potential difference (here a magnetic potential). It does not depend on the time to move it.
It is the saturation that changes here the potential at the TDC point, and this is done at the price of energy expenditure for changing the aligments in the magnetic domains as seen above.

You are applying test book examples to each part of the system in an independent way.
The effects need to be calculated as they occur.

First, no work needs to be applied to cause the rotor to rotate as it attracts itself to the core.
At TDC of the core the attraction has reached it's closest point and has added it's maximum energy to the rotor.
The core domains are aligned along the core material traveling around each side equally as this is the best path of field conduction when setup correctly.

This means the core material is near saturation in both sides of the core with the domains aligned already in the direction the coil will align them and the other side 180 degrees from the direction the coil will align them.
The coil calculations at THIS time will only apply to half the core material because the other half is already aligned and already contains the energy potential.

Once the coil does the other HALF of the work, the core will be fully saturated and all domains will be aligned in a circular path around the core.

Form this point on energy is being expended preventing work so because it is the inverse of doing work,  TIME is important and if the removal of the magnets was faster, would conserve energy.

Finally, after the magnets are removed, the core is still saturated and contains the calculated energy of the entire core.

[Airstriker]

The ferromagnetic hysteresis M-H loop shows the effect of the magnetic field on inductance or magnetization. "M" is called the magnetization of the A.  "H" is the magnetic field strength (Oe or A/m).  "B" is the magnetic flux density or mag. induction (Gauss or Tesla).

Here's a good reference explaining and showing the differences in a PDF file, http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile&id=373  You're interested only in the first 6 pages of the pdf file.  The rest of the file can be ignored, unless you want additional information that is more than likely outside of this topic.  If you need more references, then please let me know.

GB

Sorry GB but I simply have never seen a hysteresis loop like shown at the picture at page 6 of your PDF. "The B value does not saturate" - WTF ?! This is not what I've been tought at school. But maybe I have to go back and read my books again. Or throw them away and read yours.
Also I don't really understand the linear M-H loop part you are refering to in every post of yours. I've read the book http://www.tonmeister.ca/main/textbook/node428.html as you've adviced. As I've understood it is, that M is just what is left on the tape - the level of tape's magnetisation (I think it's doesn't have any physical unit like B has). The idea about sticking to the linear part of M-H curve (by biasing) is just to have the linear relation between the recorded signal and the level of tape's magnetisation (relationship between the applied field and the stored field). Perfect. We have a way to record a tape (store magnetic field on it) in a way that it's reflecting in a linear way any data we want to store on it. But what for God's sake does it have to do with ORBO ?? We don't want to store any data on our toroids ;] It's not meant to play music It's meant to do some work ;]
No offence, I just simply don't get it. You teach me -> I like you