Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?

[norman6538]

I really want to test this buoyancy principle in a simple way. The key will be to have
2 low friction valves. For each cycle they have to open and close so that means
4 valve movements. If those 4 valve movements take less work than the floated
object then the device will be OU. And as said before each additional vertical foot
is that much more work available so it seems to me it can be done if the tube is
tall enough.

A friend suggested for the water valve a plate between 2 orings would slide in and
out and would not displace much water. or just a ball valve which probably is
a ball with a hole through it in between 2 orings/seals.

In the video you can see the boy push and pull the a knob that opens and closes the
valve so it is not a ball valve but like the plate described above.

But the water displacement puzzles me.  if you push a buoyant object down into
the tub of water it will make the water level rise. Then when you slide that
object under the tube which is filled with water also will the tub water level
drop?  And likewise when a submerged object is removed the water level
will drop - so at the top of the tube will the water lever drop when removed?


I probably will just have to make it and ignore the valve work requirement losses
and then adjust the height to match those losses.


Norman

[sm0ky2]

in an open system, the water will be displaced, and transferred to the surface level. it will reflect as a rise in water level at the top of the tank and tube. However, in this set-up, an open system will result in all the water from the tube flowing down into the lower basin.

Because the tube remains sealed at either end, water does not leave the tube. What occurs is a change in pressure, equal to the buoyant force x volume displaced. when the float and object leave the top of the tube, the pressure drops again as the "hole" is filled with water. the lower end of the tube is sealed when this takes place so the water does not fall down, a small amount will be transferred into and out of the tube to the upper basin, but this is negligible and recycled each time an object floats upwards.
If properly designed and executed, there should be no loss in water height. ( very small amounts of water may travel on the surface of the objects as they leave the system, but compared to the volume displaced, this is very small)

theoretically, the energy value for opening and closing the valves can be negated, or treated as 0.
even further, the work-function of the buoyant force as it travels up the water column, can be converted to perform this task, without affecting the potential gravitational energy of the mass once it reaches the top.

[sm0ky2]

buoyancy, by default, is an overunity process. Once the mass has been removed from the fluid medium in which it is buoyant, the object has gained a gravitational potential proportional to its' change in height.

This is the power source that operates every hydroelectric power station on earth.
The same power source that brings divers and their gear to the top of the ocean from great depths using only the tiny energy of a CO2 cartridge.
     - which is but a fraction of the energy that would be consumed if you lifted the diver with a mechanical force over distance.

The only time buoyancy systems are in thermodynamic equilibrium, is when you cycle the system by forcing the buoyant object back down through the fluid medium, without changing its' buoyant state. - this is a specific case when Energy In = Energy Out. And both sides of the cycle can be treated as a potential gradient. ALL other buoyant systems, are OU by nature.

[RomanEmpire]

I think that the water level drops because the spheres steal the space of the water when them rises. In the system shown in the video there is a water displacer in the upper side that reintegrates the water ( i think ). The water level will drop and must be reintegrate, this is the only problem to solve or the cost to be payed. we need to understand if energy expenditure is greater than that obtainable (not hard to believe that it is more)

[norman6538]

Thanks guys for the excellent water level discussion. I'm pondering them all.
I was thinking that if the water level drops with each cycle then where does it go?

It seems like when the floating object rises into a given section the level will rise
then fall - that would make the most sense to me....

Norman