Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?

[sm0ky2]

Thank you guys. This sheds some light in the issue.
has anyone done the experimentation on this?
take a look at this illustration, and I will walk through each step of the cycle, as I gently insert my foot into my mouth.....

1) As the object is placed into the lower basin, water is displaced, rising its' water level by that amount. lets call it X

2) When loch1 is opened, there is a negative pressure head, keeping the water pushed up inside the water column. As the object floats up into the "load chamber", the water that is displaced by the object is also pushed into the lower basin, but at the same time the water level in the lower basin drops by X, so the lower basin is still +X

3) loch1 is closed, loch2 opened. now the water displaced by the object is transferred from the "float chamber" to the "load chamber". an amount of X

4) loch 2 is closed, and loch 3 is opened. the object displaces water in the upper basin, and at the same time, that amount of water (X) is transferred into the "float chamber", so there is no noticeable change in water height of the upper basin.
until the object is removed. Then we have mass (Y), which is less than displacement (X) moved to the top. and displaced mass (X) moved to the bottom.

5) the difference between the mass, over height, is equal to the buoyant force over distance for the height of the column.

So,. I retract my earlier assumptions, and now state, verifiably, that yes, water is being moved down the column by the displaced buoyant mass.

the energy would be "free" if the source of water came from an already elevated point, such as the top of a waterfall, or the pressure from your local water tower to fill the column.  But the obvious assumption would be that the mass of the elevated water would possess more potential energy than the buoyant mass you float to the same height.

For instance, micro-hydro turbines inline with your sink faucet to extract energy from your city's water pressure?? there are places in your house where you don't need the full pressure, just the water that comes out. so extracting the pressure as electrical energy won't affect the way you live. just lower your energy costs.

we might have to take this project back to the lab and figure out a way to keep the water level up, or use a different source of fluid medium that is replenished as we displace it.

[norman6538]

My version of the water levels and movements.

When the floating object moves from the tub into the bottom section of the
tube it will displace that water in the tube down into the tub and
raise the tub water level a second time....

Then the lower valve is closed sealing it off from the tube to the tub.
and the upper valve is opened and the floating object will rise
and push the water above to below the floating object changing nothing.
there is no pressure change and no water level changes until the floating object pops above the top water level and is removed...then that level will drop....
and in each cycle it will drop more.... and that should be a problem.

So the net is the tub will rise and eventually overflow and the tube will
drop its level and need refilling.


Does this make sense now?

Norman

[Low-Q]

Thanks guys for the excellent water level discussion. I'm pondering them all.
I was thinking that if the water level drops with each cycle then where does it go?

It seems like when the floating object rises into a given section the level will rise
then fall - that would make the most sense to me....

Norman

Norman,
Water level at the bottom reservoir will rise when the object submerge. When the first valve opens, and the object goes into next reservoir, and the valve behind it close, the water level at the bottom reservoir will remain at the new hight. Now the object will bring with it its displaced water, but when the object leaves the top reservoir, that object will not displace water anymore, and water level of the top reservoir will drop to a lower level, and remain this new level. Then the cycle repeats. Result is increasing level in the bottom reservoir, and reduced level in the top reservoir. Finally the water level is the same, and the process stops.

The energy we put in by filling up the tube with water, is the energy we get out from the buoyant objects.

Vidar.

[norman6538]

Norman,
Water level at the bottom reservoir will rise when the object submerge. When the first valve opens, and the object goes into next reservoir, and the valve behind it close, the water level at the bottom reservoir will remain at the new hight. Now the object will bring with it its displaced water, but when the object leaves the top reservoir, that object will not displace water anymore, and water level of the top reservoir will drop to a lower level, and remain this new level. Then the cycle repeats. Result is increasing level in the bottom reservoir, and reduced level in the top reservoir. Finally the water level is the same, and the process stops.

The energy we put in by filling up the tube with water, is the energy we get out from the buoyant objects.

Thanks Vidar for your excellent reply. I made one mistake in my earlier post -
...the tub water level will rise a second time. (wrong cause the object
leaving reduces the water level but is simultaneously replaced from the tube.)

But Vidar consider this. Everything you say is correct with respect to buoyancy but
net the potential energy of gravity from the lifted object. Every foot it rises beyond the work in is free except for replacing the water in the tube. So, imagine a 100 foot tall tube would give quite a bit of extra gravity power unless the power to replace
the water is too great.

The original pyramid idea did not consider the water replacment in the tube.

Norman

[Low-Q]

Norman,
If the tube is 100ft tall you have to supply a respective amount of water the same hight in advance. So the net energy from lifting mass and water will combined end up in zero.
It is only the weight of displaced water that is the 'active medium' here. The weight of the objects are not interesting because it is only the difference in buoyancy in water vs. buoyancy in air that is interesting. The difference here is therfor the weight of displaced water, and only this.

The objects can be made of osmium or hydrogen. Doesnt matter. And for each object you rise 100ft you must supply the displaced water.

Vidar