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Fuel Cells are a total rip off of US taxpayers dollars by big energy

Started by sparks, February 24, 2010, 09:31:21 PM

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sparks

  Check out the unveiling of a 700,000 dollar fuel cell that delivers some piddly wattage.  Touted to reduce carbon emissions by 60percent.  It will only cost 7,000 dollars per kw hour in subsidy to compete with the grid. (guess who is going to pay with their life experience the subsidies)  Man oh man where can I get one of these.  I'll just pop it down in the front yard and collect 70,000 dollars an hour chewing up 10kw so I can advertise this wonderful invention.  It takes volatile organic compounds and burns them.  Just like the first caveman that picked up a smoldering branch from a forest fire and waved it around and it burst into flame.   >:(   This is the best invention the department of energy can support?  This is 400million dollars latter to develop a glorified catalytic converter.  Who the fuck is running the show at the Department of Energy.   The US supposed to be the home of the free and the brave when did it become the home of the enslaved and wimpy.  Fuck it I'm tired of it.  Bunch of dumbed down ignorami whose only talent is calling the broker/booky to see how much money got deposited in his portfolio drain account.  Or opening the mail to stare at the interest earned column on his investments and realizing his pension fund isnt keeping up with inflation.  Inflation is necesssary to support worthless people who do nothing with their lives beside take take take take take from others.  This fuel cell piece of shit took alot of people for a real big ride.  I dont know whose stock is involved in this project but I would be dumping that shit quick if I was a professional gambler.  The company is so desperate it is throwing around big money names to attract elitist money.  Elites can put one down at the carriage house to show off at their partys while they smugly chuckle at the American taxpayer subsidizing their fuel costs.
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mscoffman

Quote from: sparks on February 24, 2010, 09:31:21 PM

...Who the f*ck is running the show at the Department of Energy.


I been wondering this for so many years that I have given up and
do not expect rational energy programs to originate with the U.S.
government...This energy thing is a job for individuals, not politians.

---

Fuel Cells allow a simple approach to that has an efficiency
greater than normal ICE internal Combustion Engine…It would
be better to use a fuel cell in an electric frame vehicle than an
ICE, for example.

The problem is when competing against the efficiency of
utility power plants, they are about equal because the power
plant can afford to upgrade their plants thermal efficiency, because
equipment weight is not an important factor

Another problem is that most (natural) CGN sources are not
refined unless you count pulling propane gas out of the stream.
That means that all pollutants in the stream are eventually going
to make their way into the atmosphere. With utility plants, again
they can afford to implace scrubbers in the exhaust part of the plant
and there are rules in place for this.  Individuals will most likely
not implement exhaust scrubbers, especially for things like radon
gas.

So I think hydrocarbon fuel cells and related equipment are a
very expensive way to generate power in a way that is more
dirty then it is currently being done…with a fuel cheaper than
electricity in terms cost…currently, slightly.

Quite frankly we want to stop individuals from burning hydrocarbon
fuels with their own equipment in the future solutions to the energy
problem.

Things like nuclear, wind and solar don’t have these problems.
One must’nt let the benefits and the parameters of hydrogen fuel
cells from being usurped by those proposing to use hydrocarbon fuel
cells without looking at the detailed differences.

:S:MarkSCoffman

the_big_m_in_ok

Quote from: mscoffman link=topic=8828.msg230145#msg230145 A=1267114308
Fuel Cells allow a simple approach to that has an efficiency
greater than normal ICE internal Combustion Engine…It would
be better to use a fuel cell in an electric frame vehicle than an
ICE, for example.
Probably so.  Fuel cells are simpler than ICE's.  But then there's the problem of providing a heat source that's safe for car drivers.  Natural gas is more hazardous than butane, unfortunately.
Quote
The problem is when competing against the efficiency of
utility power plants, they are about equal because the power
plant can afford to upgrade their plants thermal efficiency, because
equipment weight is not an important factor
Yes, true.  However, there quite a few patents available that address the various issues concerning fuels cells, since there's potentially a lot of money to be made in that industry.

--Lee
"Truth comes from wisdom and wisdom comes from experience."
--Valdemar Valerian from the Matrix book series

I'm merely a theoretical electronics engineer/technician for now, since I have no extra money for experimentation, but I was a professional electronics/computer technician in the past.
As a result, I have a lot of ideas, but no hard test results to back them up---for now.  That could change if I get a job locally in the Bay Area of California.

lambada

Both electric and fuel-cell cars are set to hit the market, but only the first one is getting any direct federal support. The Department of Energy is investing not only in battery electric cars, but in the plants that make their batteries. And yes, the DOE is also supporting hydrogen cars, but on a more basic research levelâ€"and with a fraction of the money.

This is a little confusing, because fuel-cell cars are electrics at heart. In fact, they can use the same electric motors and share battery technology, too. But they diverge radically when it comes to cost and infrastructure. As a variety of companies come forward to wire communities for EV chargingâ€"Better Place (led by the charismatic Shai Agassi), ECOtality, Aerovironment, Coulomb and moreâ€"hydrogen stations remain few and far between, and it’s not being commercialized yet.
The auto companies, of course, have made huge investments in hydrogenâ€"General Motors paid out $1.5 billion it probably wishes it had today. But the money poured into this paid off: fuel-cell technology has progressed faster, in terms of energy output and ever-more-compact designs, than batteries have. Engineers are excited, but it’s still not translating into a viable plan for widespread use of hydrogen carsâ€"that’s where battery cars hold all the trumps.
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mcse