Electrical igniter for gas engines A keystone to understanding by Magluvin

[Magluvin]

Thank's p.99

I am happy that we are OK on the first point.

Now i will go on structuring my mind.

When i look at "hyperphysics.com", they explain the stored energy in a cap with a comparison with the  stored energy in an air tank. And i can very very well visualize this. So the voltage in the cap would compared at the pressure in the ai tank.

So 2 caps of same capacity would be compared to 2 air tanks of same capacity.

So the first  air tank(cap) is  at 99 BAR pressure and the receiver cap is empty (or has only the atmosphere pressure that is  about 1  BAR).

There is a tubing with a valve between the 2 tanks,

So when i open the valve on the tubing. depending of the opening  the tanks  will more or less fastly equalise to 50 BAR each.

So as the  pressure (exactly as the voltage  in energy stored formula for the caps) is SQUARED in the formuly 1/2 * C * V^2, so after the transfer, (of course if we operate carrefully ),  the pressure in the air tank is 25 % in each tank and together it is 50 % lost of energy as perfectly expected.

So we did not loose one molecule of air in the transfer, the quantity of air is the same but the pressure of this air is simply divided by 2 (or almost 2), and almost nothing was lost in the tubing.

The transfer was almost perfect (almost 100%) but the pressure lost is comparable at the Voltage lost in the direct cap transfer. And the end result is almost 50 % lost in energy .

Does it make sense ?

Thank's

Laurent

See, this is why I feel that we didnt lose in resistance from heat production. Not 50% in heat losses.  I feel we lost 50% because of the containers vs pressure.

Like woopy says, did we lose 50% in the air lines due to heat losses?

Very good call woopy.  ;]

mags

[poynt99]

I am not well versed in fluid dynamics so I'll let someone else answer that.

.99

[poynt99]

ps  An ideal wire has no inductance in superconducting world?

Mags

A real superconducting wire still possess inductance, and it can be wound into an inductor.

The hypothetical situation I posted where the wire was ideal (i.e. Z=0 Ohms), is strictly hypothetical.

.99

[Magluvin]

Assuming that the air tank analogy is a good one, then yes the combined potential energy in the tanks is reduced by 50%. Keep in mind also, that Hyperphysics does not touch on the efficiency or amount of transfer issues.

I would stay away from thinking that the process was 100% as you say. This is what I was trying to say before as it only adds confusion to the discussion, imho.

.99

I can sort of agree on this.  We shouldnt count the air molecules as a count of energy, just the pressure, the closeness of the air molecules or atoms, which ever element in involved is being pressurized.
But the count of air molecules or atoms can be accounted for hear also, as we didnt lose any in the process. The 2 tanks hold them all in total, we just lost pressure.

But if there are no heat losses in the air tank conversion, should there not be 70.7 bar in each tank after direct connection of a 100bar tank, to an empty tank?  If we only have 50bar in each, then where did our 50% go?

Was it lost in moving the air from 1 tank to the other? As we would need outside energy in order to re compress all back to 1 tank.

So I believe it is more of a container vs pressure that gives us these results rather than resistance heat losses.

On the other hand, if we had a way to use a flywheel to use the energy being transferred from tank to tank, instead of direct decompression from tank to tank, we could then get most of the pressure from the first tank to the second one.

I see that with the flywheel, we avoid the 50% loss by not wasting the energy put into the direct transfer that only ends up in 50% of the input. And I think that waste in direct transfer is just a container vs pressure deal, not a loss in resistances.

Mags

[Magluvin]

I am not well versed in fluid dynamics so I'll let someone else answer that.

.99

It can be said that waves of sound can be considered fluid like. But fluids are not usually compressible, where a gas or electrical charge can.

Mags