Electrical igniter for gas engines A keystone to understanding by Magluvin

[gyulasun]

Hi Magluvin,

Would like to add some thoughts on your above post.

Is there an advantage to having a primary coil of a few turns of stout wire?

I think the very small inductance (I think of some tens of microHenry maximum) made a very fast response time for the primary coil, current was only limited by the inner resistance(s) of the capacitor(s) and the thick wires, so an extremely high peak current could be had, surely the L/R time was very very small.
Tesla wrote he loved capacitors because he could draw quasi "unlimited" power from them. Here is a conversation between him and a Counsel:

"Counsel
I understood a little while ago when you made the statement of using several thousand horsepower put into a condenser, you could take out of the condenser a million horsepower. I wondered if you got the same condition with this machine.
Tesla
Yes; I charged the condenser with 40,000 volts. When it was charged full, I discharged it suddenly, through a short circuit which gave me a very rapid rate of oscillation. Let us suppose that I had stored in the condenser 10 watts. Then, for such a wave there is a flux of energy of (4 x 10⁴)², and this is multiplied by the frequency of 100,000. You see, it may go into thousands or millions of horsepower."


Here you can find the thread I quoted from the total text is included in the link scotty provided in his post: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6250.msg146671#msg146671   If you go down to the bottom of that thread, you can see Tito's question which I think one of his 'secrets' (it was in Dec, 2008).

Question arises: was it overunity?  Unfortunately no, at least not in that way,  Tesla simple took out the same Wattsecond energy from the capacitor during a much shorter time (so he seemingly amplified the power but in fact it must have been peak power which of course can be much much higher but lasts for much less time.) This is why he used stout wires of a few turns: to get the smallest resistance possible to maximize current.
But if we are to believe Tito that he has something, then the answer for his question at the end of the thread is partly included in his question I think...


rgds, Gyula

[forest]

Hi Magluvin,

Would like to add some thoughts on your above post.

I think the very small inductance (I think of some tens of microHenry maximum) made a very fast response time for the primary coil, current was only limited by the inner resistance(s) of the capacitor(s) and the thick wires, so an extremely high peak current could be had, surely the L/R time was very very small.
Tesla wrote he loved capacitors because he could draw quasi "unlimited" power from them. Here is a conversation between him and a Counsel:

"Counsel
I understood a little while ago when you made the statement of using several thousand horsepower put into a condenser, you could take out of the condenser a million horsepower. I wondered if you got the same condition with this machine.
Tesla
Yes; I charged the condenser with 40,000 volts. When it was charged full, I discharged it suddenly, through a short circuit which gave me a very rapid rate of oscillation. Let us suppose that I had stored in the condenser 10 watts. Then, for such a wave there is a flux of energy of (4 x 10⁴)², and this is multiplied by the frequency of 100,000. You see, it may go into thousands or millions of horsepower."


Here you can find the thread I quoted from the total text is included in the link scotty provided in his post: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6250.msg146671#msg146671   If you go down to the bottom of that thread, you can see Tito's question which I think one of his 'secrets' (it was in Dec, 2008).

Question arises: was it overunity?  Unfortunately no, at least not in that way,  Tesla simple took out the same Wattsecond energy from the capacitor during a much shorter time (so he seemingly amplified the power but in fact it must have been peak power which of course can be much much higher but lasts for much less time.) This is why he used stout wires of a few turns: to get the smallest resistance possible to maximize current.
But if we are to believe Tito that he has something, then the answer for his question at the end of the thread is partly included in his question I think...


rgds, Gyula

The answer lies in simple other Tesla answer....

" [Returning to a discussion of Fig. 31], [E] is supposed to be a condenser.  That [A] is the generator.  Now then, supposing that this is a generator of steady pressure.  I can obtain oscillations of any frequency I desire.  I can make them damped or undamped.  I can make them of one direction or alternating in direction as I choose.  At G are devices which operateâ€"lamps, or anything else.  Some experimenters who have gone after me have found a difficulty.  They said,

"No, we cannot produce a constant train of oscillations."

Well, it is not my fault.  I never have had the slightest difficulty.  I produced constant oscillations and I have described how I produced them.  Anyone who has no more than my own skill can do it.
"

[Magluvin]

Hey Guys, thanks for the good replies.

Is it possible that these simple conversions are all that tesla was talking about, and that there is no over unity at all in Teslas experiments?
As I have said in above posts, I may have made a mistake in what I thought I understood from Teslas writings and this pat. description. But I cannot say for sure as of yet till I try.

Titos claims, we cannot fully believe for sure because he will not prove or back up his claims. But does that mean he is not truthful? None of us can make that assumption for sure, but it is what we can conclude thus far because of a level of trust within ourselves by what we know so far.
So maybe he should not have made the claims if he had no intention of spilling the beans. But it is what it is.

Yet Tesla did make some of the same claims. The Faraday dynamo, the Peirce Arrow, and the receivers that he worked on in the hotel lab at the end of his days.

And maybe none of those things had anything to do with what this thread is all about.
I dunno yet. But I will try and test within my abilities and level of understanding to find out. I may miss something along the way and skip by a really important item or feature that I just didnt notice or not be knowledgeable of to recognize. But I try as well as I can.  =]

When I see  10 watts to 10,000 watts or horse power, that can be very influential in thinking that OU may or must exist in what he is saying, Tesla that is.  How could this conversion be close to possible?
In everyday standards, to load up a cap to a tot of 10 watts, we can assume that only around 10 watts or a bit more due to efficiency would be used to make that energy stored. So even if the output is produced in a flash, 10,000 watts or even horse power, it is unfathomable that there is no gain at all. How many pulses of 10 watts would it normally take, by conventional thinking, to produce these incredible amounts of power, even if it were very short bursts? But as I read it, this great amount of energy IS produced by 1 discharge from the cap.

Be back in a lil bit. =]

Mags

[bboj]

Ithink the problem is how to take out this magnified energy without killing the oscilation. That is  - can we pump the second condenser to a much higher value and discharge it into some device.
I thin Tito talks about multiple stages, so somehow he is extracting energy without inductive connections between stages.
It is not overunity - which does not exist. In a way it is a kind of electric leverage.
We are talking about work in and work out.

[sparks]

   In a patent of Tesla's referring to system for electrical distribution he takes a generator plant and charges a capacitor through a normal close coupled transformer.  Then he dumps it into his system which has a capacitor at the end of the line and inductive loads parallel to the capacitor in series with the spark gap.  The spark gap is pulsing like crazy so the impedance of the inductive loads is way too high to be driven directly from the spark gap discharge but the capacitor after the spark gap is quite capable of being charged.  The inductive load pulls from the capacitor as needed.  This system of electrical distribution was never employed.  The spark gap could be capable of energy conversion from chemcial or thermal energy.  This manifests as running with gain.  If this process is repeated millions of times a second and each cycle runs at a cop of greater than one your biggest problem is controlling the process.