Self running coil?

[canam101]

@gotoluc
Thanks for the reply.

[gotoluc]

Hi Luc,

Thanks for the corrections.  I found: the way you eventually wind the coils is known as the common mode choke coils EXCEPT you connect them in series.  (By the way, here is some common mode choke coils, widely used at the mains voltage input of most power supplies etc:
http://www.tdk.co.jp/tefe02/e93_tf.pdf ).

The fact your no magnet coil inductance is around 1 Henry and with the magnets it goes down to as low as 23mH to 200mH  shows saturation and would be interesting to know that the switching current from the FET makes the core towards more saturation or brings it to a less saturated point on the core's B-H curve?   Whenever you have time for a quick check: simply replace the two crocodile clips on the coil contacts with each other, to change the current flow's direction in the coil and see how the circuit behaves.
Also, in another test, could you shift the position of the magnets from the vertical symmetry line in the schematic to the left or to the right and see if this has any effect? 

Sorry if my explanation was not understandable, now the coil wireing issue may bring us further ahead.

Thanks,  Gyula

Hi Gyula,

thanks for your explanations so far. I don't always understand them completely but they do help but they could be important to others who are looking at this topic. So please don't stop as I'm sure it is appreciated.

Switching the polarities is something that I have done a while back and the coil does behave differently. The effect is best with the coil as the UPDATED coil I posted above.

I have also moved the magnet around. This effects it much less but that could be because there is only one pickup coil. What I forgot to demonstrate in my videos is with the magnet on the center of the coils if I move the pickup coil from the below half to the above half the sine wave on the scope flips around. My last test last night I added a pickup coil on the top half and was able to also collect energy without affecting the lower coil or the input returned energy.

There could be a possibility of pickup coils on the other side of the toroid also.

Luc

ADDED:

Could you help with the tuning of the pickup coils. As I noticed a difference, as one that was working well will no longer when I change the frequency and another coil will start to work better. I don't know enough to make an idea coil for a certain frequency.

[NextGen67]

Hi canam101,

I personally would be surprised that the circuit (posted above) on its own would be OU

However, if we are able to make a Toroid with a magnet Resonate at next to no cost of energy since even the possible gate switching energy is being returned to the capacitor bank, then this is good.

What you and others who are not replicating may not be considering is that a pickup coil can added and real current can be extracted at no cost to the capacitor bank returned input energy.

This is where the possible OU or Free energy could be coming from. My tests so far show that when I add a load to the pickup coil it has no reverse effect on the input. JLN has demonstrated this also but he does not have his input at zero yet!

Also, there could be a possibility of multiple pickup coils added as the toroid seems to have an opposite field on each half and maybe on each side. So there could be 4 pickup coils. The other thing is the pickup coil I used is not tuned so it is not taking full advantage of the potential magnetic current.

Luc

Hi Luc,

Exactly what I noticed also. And the even better thing is, that *might* such happen, It does in no single way 'break' any law or interference with CoE.

It is just the Bloch Wall domains receiving an 'extra' kick from the magnet that is sitting there. At the end of the pulse, these domains will be 'shaken' for a while -at a rather high frequency- and the energy released from the *motion* of these domains *do* exit the coil.

Your pickup coil is collecting these, and as you mentioned before, most if not all the supplied energy put in the coil comes back in the Cap.

What is basically happening is that instead the magnet is moving, the domains inside the core do 'move', and by such cause [in combination with the magnet] an extra -short moment- of Additional Energy.

--
NextGen67

[gmeast]

One thing I find interesting, not that we know it matters yet, is the coils working together yet wound in the opposite direction. Could this be an ingredient that has not been looked into?

Not to go off topic, but to expand on it....

If you had the 2 coils on the core so that when you send power to the coils, that they oppose one another instead of both causing circular flux in the core.  This may provide the same tension as the permanent mag provides the core in Lucs experiments. Just the thought of it in conventional circuitry would be a fault situation. But take it to resonance.  It would be different if the coils were 1 in 1 wrapped over one another out of phase, but 2 separate coils opposing would be working that magnetic spring.
Itseung claim on embedded magnetic core IS what we are seeing here. Just he magnet is on the outside of the core instead of being internal to the core circuit.
He says it works, Jln says it works, I say luc has got it going on. =]
---------------------------------------------------

Hi all,

I second the motion! (above)

When Luc first described the coil winding, I thought that this is a unique coil configuration.

Such a coil configuration would never enter the minds of a conventional  engineers ... it is contrary, a fault.  Placing a PM in the orientation as Luc's is alien to me considering the Orbo inductance demo has the magnet and core axis' coaxially arranged (I know ... probably not the same effect).

Another Xbehavior is that the best power pickup is at the 'head-on' position where the windings meet.

Has the same setup (magnet and all) been tried using conventional toroid winding?

Later,

Greg

[gyulasun]

....
I have also moved the magnet around. This effects it much less but that could be because there is only one pickup coil. What I forgot to demonstrate in my videos is with the magnet on the center of the coils if I move the pickup coil from the below half to the above half the sine wave on the scope flips around. My last test last night I added a pickup coil on the top half and was able to also collect energy without affecting the lower coil or the input returned energy.

There could be a possibility of pickup coils on the other side of the toroid also.


ADDED:

Could you help with the tuning of the pickup coils. As I noticed a difference, as one that was working well will no longer when I change the frequency and another coil will start to work better. I don't know enough to make an idea coil for a certain frequency.

Hi Luc,

Ok on you findings.  I think first thing would be to explore the volume of the magnetic field coming out from the toroid,  I mean to probe around the toroid with a max 1-1.5cm OD short solenoid coil (no more than 50-60 turns) and use your Fluke multidigit meter in AC to see the induced voltage and find where and how the position of the probe coil gives the highest amplitude and how it changes with going away from the toroid.

I say this first because I think the pickup coil you showed in your videos is a bit long for the job. (I think you chose that just to see the behavior.)

Also the copper wire resistance ought to be the smaller the better because of using 15-20 Ohm coils will waste induced power when loaded.  Unfortunately, this requirement involves using thicker wire for the pickup coils, and this makes them a bit bulkier. 

I wonder if these pickup coils could be used with ferromagnetic cores? It would be worth trying because it would tremendously increase the pickup coils inductance, hence the induced output power.

Once you explored the best places for positioning the pickups, then try to make or obtain multiturn coils that OD / length ratio is between 2 - 3 or so.
I know you are aware of Brooks coils, of course this is not an ultimate requirement now.  Much more important is to test a pickup with soft iron core included to see if the lack of action-reaction still holds to the toroid.

Finally when you have some pickup coils around the toroid, and you connect them either in series or parallel (to increase output current or voltage (but not both of course)) you may wish to measure the combined inductance with your L meter and then find a capacitor that makes them resonant at the output frequency.  This capacitor ought to be connected in series with one of the common coil outputs and then would come the load.

(You may consider using audio crossover air cored coils for the pickups if you do not have to time or means now for making some multiturn coils. Unfortunately, they are not the cheapest components.)

rgds,  Gyula