The downfalls of conventional electrolysis - and how to fix them

[vrand]

Another replicator [and a good one]
                "vrand"
at the same link
I believe the link I posted above may require "login"
I did not know that and will be posting a link that does not require "membership" soon.
Mean while



Re: Mookie's Electrolyser Accelerator
« Reply #8 on: Today at 15:31:17 » 

vrand
Quote: 

Thanks Farrah Day for starting this thread and thanks RAMSET for pointing to this forum. 

As you probably read over at EF I plan on reproducing Mookie's experiment and purchased the same electromagnet he used.  My first setup will be to attach steel bars to the 3 legs of the EM about 10" long.  Then attach to the steel bars 16 ga 430 ss plates, 3" x 7" in between the 3 bars.  The spacing of the 16 ga plates will be in the area of 1/16" to 1/8".  Will try to get to 1/16" spacing so as to fit as many plates as possible between the steel bars as possible.  All of this will fit inside of a GE house filter housing, 4.5" ID x 10.5" tall.  The bars will come in from the bottom of the housing as well as the DC wiring.  Will use the 068 PWM to pulse 55 amps at 12 VDC, same as the Freddy Cell setup.  Will coat the steel bars with a thin layer of epoxy to protect from the KOH electrolyte.

The GE housing is rated at 120 PSI and will test the cell to 60 PSI.  This is also my test bed for the Freddy cell and the Zach West cell designs.  That GE water fi;ter housingr is 1/2" thick wall clear acrylic so can see the bubble action as it happens.  Will do time tests to fin out how long it takes to get to 60 PSI with pulsed DC vs. pulsed DC + EM.  Will test the HHO gas in balloon float test and pop test.

The idea in this design is to move close to 100% of the EM "magnetic circuit" through the 430 ss plates.  Mookie had a gap of close to 3/8" of an inch between his plates and the EM face, because of the glass wall thickness.  That is a lot of wasted EM magnetic field.  So the idea in this test setup is to use more of that magnetic field.  Will find out if it works.

Mike R.   

Thanks Chet, keep up the good work in posting info on this very interesting technology.  More experiments are needed. 

Even trying out different configurations, like adding magnets, that Garry did in his experiment today. The more data points we have the better we can understand what is happening.  For example Farrad mentions that the glass touching the electromagnet, shaking the jar, might be the cause of the bubbles.  Garry's data disproves that theory with his plastic container inside the 3/4 hp stator windings setup. 

We know from Mookie that the "bang" strength of the gas was good.  When Garry reports back on his gas bubbles flame test that gives us more data. 

Also Garry used non-magnetic ss backed with magnets and it still produced lots of gas where Mookie indicated only non-magnetic ss would work. 

So there are a lot of new data being generated from every experiment, no matter if it is not exactly what Mookie showed on his original video.

Its, experiment, experiment, experiment, to get, data, data, data.

"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."
Sherlock Holmes

Mike R.

[ramset]

 
Re: Mookie's Electrolyser Accelerator
« Reply #30 on: Today at 11:00:27 »     

HHHmmmm.................
Mookie Quote:
Yes I have lit the output gas without a lid on the cell and completely blew apart the (plastic) container.
I will never do that again. The "milky looking water "as you describe it, is made up of a huge amount
of oxygen/hydrogen bubbles that are miniscule in size as compared to the bubbles produced with
a cell running in normal conditions...the cell appears to be supersaturated with escaping bubbles,
and as fast as they leave the cell...they cant leave fast enough

--------------------------------------
Yes I know he's making  Gas any way in the Cell
Little Pops on top ?Yeah Thats what you get
BLOW UP THE WHOLE JAR?

NOT!!!
The more I read Mookie, The more I here Chris Hunter's Email from Anonymous Mayonaise Jar Man!![What I refer to him as at OU } When I saw the Mayo Jar in the vid I thought "NO WAY"!!

YEAH WAY

Holy Crap!!
Was getting ready to post this

LOOK AT THE TITLE CHRIS HUNTER PUT ON THE EMAIL
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
FW: Electrolysis accelerator
InboxX

Alaska StarI know you will post this for everyone to see, so for the person's privacy, I...
Aug 29


Alaska Star to me
show details Aug 29


I know you will post this for everyone to see, so for the person's privacy, I have blanked his name, and his email.

You have been seeking independent validation of various theories that I came up with, and successful replication.  The person I have been conversing with will probably see this and shoot me, but he, like me, would rather stay out of the public forums and the stew-pot of feces that is found there.

Like I stated from the beginning, this is, has been, and always will be far simpler than you can imagine.  You have always the option of making it super complicated.

Now I was asked a question regarding his build and his design with a stumbling block, and I answered his problem, which has relevance to what you are working on, for that is the only reason I am sharing it with you.  Keep in mind that my non-participation in the forum and his non-participation in the forum is not something that says that I am hiding anything.  This guy has the brains enough to figure it out, for all it's simplicity, and use it.

How hard can it be?

So, I am sharing this with you in confidence that it would not be twisted around, but the knowledge gained and applied, proven, can be used to teach others, so that they my indeed understand such simple concepts.

Chris




From: ***************@****************.com
To: alaskastar2000@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Electrolysis accelerator
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 11:42:08 -0400



Hi again Chris,

Hope your project has moved a few more steps forward since last time. Stay with it.

Since your reply, I took your suggestions and was able solve my electrical issue. It enabled me to be able to finally test
for much longer periods of time. That allowed me to take things even further. Thanks Chris ..you got me out of a rut.
Those stator magnets were very strong, and the effect dramatic as I said before, but it led me to conclude
that I needed something with an even greater magnetic capability.

Since then, I was able to pick up a powerhouse industrial electromagnet, that at 12 volts has a lifting strength of 889 lbs ( nearly half a ton ! )
and is designed to operate at either 12DC, 24 DC or 120 AC, with lukewarm heat at best at full power. With a variac I'm able to run it
anywhere from 10 AC to 140 AC without a problem. Weighs a whopping 7 lbs. Cost me $60 and has a magnetic field that extends nicely.
At 12 volts DC it sticks to metal like its welded, and a simple PWM takes care of the regulation.
If you're looking for one or two for any reason, let me know ..I have a great supplier.

The accelerating effect on electrolysis is monstrous using this magnet. I'm purposefully using mason jars for testing, so that I can
visually see what's going on, but the pull is so strong that I'm continually breaking jars. I should be able to overcome that pretty simply
with a different plate assembly configuration.

Thanks again Chris. When I'm done I'll upgrade my internet service so that I can send you a video clip (for your eyes only).

                                                                                       ..............................

Incidentally..While doing some lurking I see that you are being invited to join a discussion forum. For your sake, I hope you don't take the bait.
It will only lead you to frustration and argument and a huge waste of your time dealing with people who's only goal is to be King of the Castle.
Just by reading what's in those forums, you can see that there's nothing new to learn from people who are still just talking in the same circles.
You've been there before and have been around long enough to know that most people only want something for nothing.
Take the bait..and you'll lose another year.





----- Original Message -----
From: Alaska Star
To: *****************@*************.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 12:50 PM
Subject: RE: Electrolysis accelerator..any thoughts?


Hey!  Yes I have my voice back, and I have been quite busy.  Building an electric car from scratch by designing the motor, the battery management, speed controller, etc all from scratch. 
Ok, to keep the stator coils from frying up, you need to observe Kirschoff's Law and the Laws of Thermodynamics.  These are so important that you will soon learn the most valuable lesson in circuit design.

I will start with a simple circuit because keeping it simple is important.

We have a power source (can be AC or DC) and we have a Coil.  Now this coil is nothing more than a length of wire, and this length of wire can be 1 inch long or it can be 1 mile long, it doesn't matter.  What would happen if I put a 10 inch length of wire across the terminals of a car battery?  Gets quite hot quite quickly!  Now, let's put a heat device in series with this wire, like a light bulb.

So we insert a light bulb which is 90% heat and 10% light in series with your coil.  Now the coil becomes passive and is a conductor and an inductor, and we observe the laws of thermodynamics.  How?  For every hot side there's a cold side.  Equal and opposite reaction.  So if the cold side of the circuit is desired to be the coils, then we need something to get hot so the coils stay cold.  The energy has to go someplace. 

Now if we put a large ballast resistor in series with your coil (I prefer the tube type carbon pile ballast resistors because I can run a cooling pipe through it to a radiator to cool it down) then it will allow enough current to flow to generate the magnetic field you need without messing with the frequency.  If you use a light bulb, you will be restricted by the amount of current that can flow through the tungsten element. A large resistor is designed to carry current but convert energy to heat in a specific location, which would be wherever you want that heat to be located.

Now if you want to go a step further....put your 2 plates in series with the coil, where the power flows THROUGH the water to get to the coil, and the resistance of the water will keep the coil cold, but it will self regulate from the gaseous resistive barrier that builds on the plates from the hydrogen and oxygen.

I hope this helps, and please if you could, let me know how it works for you, test results, etc.

Chris Hunter
ArcticTek.com



From: *******************@****************.com
To: alaskastar2000@hotmail.com
Subject: Electrolysis accelerator..any thoughts?
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 11:50:14 -0400


Hey Chris

You probably don't remember me 'cause I only send you an email maybe once a year.
The first time was before you got sick...the last time was when you were getting your voice back.
Hopefully that's all behind you now, and you're back in some friggin' zone again.

If you remember, I'm not a member of any forum...just a lurker and a browser once in a while.

I'm stuck on something that maybe you can help me get around the stump. I've run hundreds of tests on this
and is the only area of electrolysis that I'm focused on. ..The effect of magnetism on the electrolysis process.

For the past year I've been playing with accelerating the electrolysis process using a couple of fair sized stator coils
(7.5 amp and 8.4 amp) with great success using straight 120 AC. ( No effect with DC). One has 4 coils and the other has two.
Both very powerful electromagnets. I've run them as conventional electromagnets as well as connecting the windings to have
the same magnetic pole facing in. Simple 2-plate martensitic ss electrodes are just fine as a cell for testing.
The acceleration process is monstrous running this way. You probably already know that a 15 to 20 times increase in the rate
would not be exaggerating. (I'd gladly send you a vid clip but my cable provider has me capped, so I cant do that )

As you probably know, you cant run a stator coil that way for much longer than 10 seconds or the windings will fry
with the conductive load, so I protect the windings with a 7.5 amp variac . The problem with that is the increase in acceleration
is very minimal running this way, and I can only run it at 7.5 amps at around 30 volts AC..

Anything you can think of anything (electrical or otherwise) that can add to this set up try to get around this?
Even if you don't have an answer for that ..any thoughts on a slightly different approach I might try with this?

Hope you're doing well.

------------------------

[ramset]

Another replication
Stevie1001
Pics and a  vid too, haven't seen it yet,perhaps somebody can post it?
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,1471.new.html#new
Chet

[iflewmyown]

@all
I won't bore you with all the details leading here. I did not need a ten foot pole, I did not need a pole at all. I could not get the mix to spark, bang, whiz or fizz. Nothing, Nada, Zip. The mix looks like a half empty soda bottle that you have shaken for a minute and is about to bust. I ran experiments half the night and the magnetism is essential. I vibrated water from 0 to 120 hz. and no fizz. The stuff just has no bang. I have got other irons in the fire. The video was impressive so I tried it.
Garry

[ramset]

Thanks Garry!
Perhaps Take a look at the Vid from stevie 1001 above
I cannot view it yet or post it
Somebody??
Chet