Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison

[jeanna]

the quartz/ NaSiO3 growth. It was very dynamic,
All the best  Ian

Ian,
I have been thinking about your soap. I think it is getting close to what I have been looking for in the building material. You saw the growth followed by solidification.
Thing is soap is a salt made from the base, water and oil. So, there is no oil here but oil is a polymer. And the polymer formed by the Si is a likely substitute. So, your soap is a geopolymer. (Maybe you already got it and this is what you meant by soap the other day. and I am a little slow  .) Did you record the 'recipe' of your soap? I hope so.
jeanna

[Koen1]

@jeanna: lol

I think you may have a point here. Indeed, silicium polymers are the basic ingredient for the Davidovits geoplymer binders,
and indeed soap is generally a base+water+oil mix, somewhat similar to the composition of a salt. Since oils are polymers as well,
it is conceivable that you'd get a similar substance when we replace them with silicium polymers... On the other hand,
the chemical structure of "normal" (oil) polymers is quite different from the silicium polymers, both in structure and in chemical makeup...
Yet both soap base and most silicates are alkaline, so there we have a similarity again.

What I find particularly interesting is the sudden solidification and opacity of the substance after Ian shook it.
Your remark on loosely bound non-matrix silicon materials sounds likely... I believe I know what you're talking about, I think
I recall the same picture from some book on silicon chemistry. Must dig that book up again sometime.
However, I am not sure if this is of much direct value to our quest for a crystal energy cell...

@ian: Thanks for those pics! Can we download your 200mb quartz/Na2SiO3 growth movie somewhere?
Interesting remark about nitridation... Are you talking about "only" treating the electrodes this way,
or are you considering doing this to your new mix? (I ask because I have at some point considered
using nitrogen compounds in a mix to attempt to get rid of some excess oxygen and some other elements.
Since nitrogen is fairly inert to most chemicals, and has a very low boiling temp, I had hoped for the NO2
and NO gases to evaporate very quickly. The mix I had at that time did not respond as I had hoped, so
I dropped this approach.)

I just finished "cooking up" a nice new batch of silicate mixture, a fairly basic silicate solution which I had react
with several other elements, mostly sodium and a few very common metals, untill it turned into a paste. I've been
using small pieces of piping for containers, and have filled a few with this paste. Now I'm going to leave them to
solidify and dry for a while (anywhere between 1 to 4 weeks to ensure it's completely dry). Will test them all, and
if any test positve I'll post a pic. Unless you want to see one anyway, then I could post one for your enjoyment.
Am also "cooking up" several variations of a substance with a similar base mix, but with different amounts of quartz
sand and/or metals in them. I took one fairly basic mix of mostly sodium silicate with quartz and "baked" it on relatively low heat
untill it was completely dry and hard. (lol yes, this was an attempt to imitate Hutchisons "shake 'n bake"/"dirt cheap"
video demonstration, without adding rock gravel.) I did this mostly to kill time while waiting for the other mixes to "cook",
but also because I just wanted to see how the quartz would bond with that specific silicate mix. The resultant "cookie"
looks very much like a sand cookie. At first it was quite solid but I guess there was still some water in it, because after a
day or two the thing became quite crumbly and broke in two. It is now very similar to sandstone, except that the structure is different,
and it is harder than sandstone, although rubbing the surface does loosen some of the "sand". There is absolutely zero voltage on this.
I must point out that I did not put any voltage on the material while it was "baking", nor afterward. (I did not have any equipment for this
in my workshop at the time, had taken my box of electrical thingys and whatsems back home for the weekend and didn't bring it.)
May try such a low heat "cookie" baking attempt again soon, but I need to remember to bring at least a capacitor, a battery and a multimeter...
But like I said, my focus at the moment is on my batches of silicate mixtures, and not so much on the "cookies". The fact that I currently do not have access to a kiln to actually bake high temperature ceramics may have something to do with that

kind regards,
Koen

[jeanna]

Koen1,
I am wondering if you plan to add any "electrification" to any of the pipes during the time the contents are drying?
jeanna

[Koen1]

Jeanna,

yes, I am indeed planning to apply a reatively high voltage to some of the pipes while solidifying.
I'm working on a mix comparison to determine which exact mix I'll subject to the electric field.

Also, I have come up with this idea that simply applying a voltage while solidifying may not
have entirely the desired effect; if a (mostly) dielectric substance is subjected to such a field,
the molecules will not budge and the material will remain dielectric. However, many materials
are dielectric after cooling and solidifying, but are ferroelectric while molten. This means their
'dielectric' molecules will polarise according to an electric field. When this is done to a material
that is dielectric when solid (like quartz for example), a bias can be created in the material,
which can cause (quasi-)permanent 'polarisation' and a surface potential. Generally this is what happens in electrets.
But, if we look at materials that allow a flow of electrons through them, we quickly find
semiconductor p-n layers. The division of relatively positive and negative 'pollution' particles throughout
the semiconductor also creates a bias in the n->p direction, and electrons flowing through the material
will "want" to move from n to p and not in the opposite direction.
If we now look at the division of these positive and negative charges in the material, and we assume
it is possible to have a material that is both dielectric and has p-n qualities, then lets consider how
we could make this... Assuming we have this mystery material, the easiest way to create a seperation
of charges in the material, as well as a polarisation of the 'dielectric' molecules, is to apply an electric
field during solidifying and cooling. However both the polaritation direction and the p-n division will be
in the same direction: all positive charges, both those of the polarised molecules and of the p-pollution
particles, will be attracted to the negative electrode, and of course this is reversed for the negative charges.
If we draw the desired electric fields, we will see that this does not seem to provide a path for electrons to
follow from the one (positive) surface to the other (negative) surface through the material, since the
p-n direction is in opposition to the desired flow.
So perhaps it would be a good idea to make such a 'polarised' block, then cut it into slices, and rearrange
the slices in such a way that the dielectric polarisation is still all in one direction, but the p-n division
is in opposition to that...
That cannot be done by merely applying an electric field during the cooling/solidifying phase, but one
would need to cut the block into slices and rearrange them manually. Such a charge seperation
to my knowledge does not occur in rocks naturally.
And that is assuming that we can get the slices to connect perfectly, so that conduction etc actually happens.

comments or reactions are appreciated.

[ian middleton]

G'day all.

@Koen:  You,ve highlighted a problem I have been considering for a while. That is the polarization of the mix against the natural polarization of a p-n junction.  This probably why the polarity on my mixes reverse when the voltage is removed. I have and experiment going at the moment where the polarizing electric field (6000V) is insulated from the mix by mylar insulators. I will continue with this configuration for another week or so to make sure the mix is dry.

For the nitidation of the negative electrode I will heat treat the copper ( cherry red ) and then quench it in ammonia. The fumes will be fun.
Not sure whether it will work but it is worth a try.

The silicon/borax "soap" has hardend over the last couple of days and now I cant get the stuff out of the pot. I can dig bits out and it has the same consistancy of hard parrfin wax. It looks like a very suitable candidate for an electret.

To make the stuff I dissolved 229gm of sodium meta silicate in 250ml of hot water, this makes a viscous solution of sodium silicate.
I let that stand over night to cool. It gets a little thicker.  I then used 60ml of that stock solution and added 1/4 teaspoon of borax.
Stirred until dissolved. That stood over night and was still a clear fluid.  I then gave it a good vigorous shake( just for the hell of it) and then it turned into a solid.

Like yourself I have made a number of sand cookies and they became brittle and crumbly.

After another 12 hour short circuit the "pie" bounced back to 0.480V. 

More later

Ian.