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Hi All,
this is a brand new technology which might have a big impact on
all electric energy technologies.

English introduction:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj_SwJXDPW0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj_SwJXDPW0)

German language experiment video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAtqPL_maeg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAtqPL_maeg)

Unfortunately only in German language.

He charges up a 1 Farad Cap to about 20 Volts in about less
than 1 second.

This device he uses is some kind of 6 Li-Ion in series accumulators
packed into a permanent magnets array.
This way the accumulators are somehow "polarized" and this "polarized current"
does not heat up the small wire and charges up the cap very quickly
without any heating in the small diameter wire.

Seems to be the "polarized current" acts like a supraconductor and just charges
up the cap in milliseconds.
Also not much energy is needed to charge up the 1 Farad cap,
but it has much energy after the quick chargeup.
See the red glowing of the shortcircuit wire !

So this circuit seems to be definately overunity ! ;)

He has registered a few patents around it and here they are:

http://www.overunity.de/index.php?topic=1019.30 (http://www.overunity.de/index.php?topic=1019.30)

In this German thread I have already linked them as attachments to my own posts,
so go there to get them.

Well, this can be a new revolutionary technology, if this kind of polarized current or
voltage from the Li-Ion batteries can just charge the big cap by just sending a "charge-now!"
information to the cap, so it charges by "itsself" somehow and does not use up
its own energy for it.

Regards, Stefan.

Here are all his patents about it:

http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20100624&CC=US&NR=2010159293A1&KC=A1
http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20100916&CC=WO&NR=2010102791A2&KC=A2
http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20100610&CC=WO&NR=2010063453A1&KC=A1
http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20100506&CC=WO&NR=2010049035A1&KC=A1
http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20101216&CC=DE&NR=102009024430A1&KC=A1
http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20101215&CC=CH&NR=701244A2&KC=A2


Click on "Original document"
and then click onto:
Save Full Document in the header area.
Then you have to give in a graphics code so you can download the full PDF file.

Hope this helps.

Regards, Stefan.

Here are a few pics of one of the patents attached.

What an incredible find. Im still trying to get my head around this reading the patent but yes it looks VERY interesting. Despite his youtube vids been up for a while now it has very little interest. I think most people can not really see what is actually taking place.

Yes, it was first very hard to understand, if you have not yet studied the patents.

The main thing is, that he uses a magnet field around flat Li-accumulators (extracted from cell phone batteries,
without the charging security circuit in them) to "polarize"
them somehow. If you then draw current from them, this current charges up electrolytic
caps and lead acid batteries very fast.

He made another test, where a few  Li-accumulators in series this way charged up
a discharged 12 Volts lead acid battery up to a full charge up to 14 Volts in very fast 20 minutes or so.
The lead acid battery then had full capacity.

The Li-accumulators were not much discharged afterwards.

So if anybody want to try this, just take 4 Li-accumulators
from a cell phone and put them in series and put a few magnets
around them and charge them up when the magnets still stick to them.
This seems to polarize them.
Then when the Li-accumulators are fully charged,
put them all in series and charge a discharged 12 Volts lead acid battery with it,
but don´t put any ampmeter between it, as this prevents the fast charging.

Or just repeat the test that is shown in the german video.

There he also has 2 discharged lead acid batteries in parallel with the
Li-accumulators inside the magnet array.
the 2 batteries at the top wrapped in the alufoil probably don´t have
any effect, maybe he just only made it this way to not give too much
away from the basic effect. They also seem not to be connected,
as he only has one copper band there and not 2 contacts...

But when you read the patents it gets clearer.


There are also other patents out there that use magnets wrapped around
Li-accumulators to enhance their charging capacity.

But the main effect is the the fast charging without Joule heating
of the electrolyte capacitor.

This way, if supercaps can be used, an electric could be recharged very fast
and economical !

Maybe the Tesla Roadster then won´t  need anymore any expensive battery pack,
but just a stack of 2700 Farad supercaps will do,
which also will
be recharged in just a few minutes instead of hours !
And it does not need much energy from your grid outlet also !

Regards, Stefan.

Coler converter of sorts.. very interesting.

Quote from: hakware on March 04, 2011, 12:53:26 AM
Coler converter of sorts.. very interesting.

No,
just some kind of polarisation stuff for Li-Ion or Li-Polymer batteries
that changes the behaviour of the charging current...

Maybe it freezes just one axis of the electron movement or changes the electron or Ion spins,
so the charging current does not have any real ohmic losses when it is applied to the capacitor ?

Maybe then massive currents can flow without the Joule heating in small diameter wires ?

Maybe some kind of room temperature supra-conductor effect through
magnetic polarisation ?

Who knows, must be researched..

Regards, Stefan.

Quote from: hartiberlin on March 04, 2011, 01:10:52 AM
No,
just some kind of polarisation stuff for Li-Ion or Li-Polymer batteries
that changes the behaviour of the charging current...

Maybe it freezes just one axis of the electron movement or changes the electron or Ion spins,
so the charging current does not have any real ohmic losses when it is applied to the capacitor ?

Maybe then massive currents can flow without the Joule heating in small diameter wires ?

Maybe some kind of room temperature supra-conductor effect through
magnetic polarisation ?

Who knows, must be researched..

Regards, Stefan.

Maybe not but I see a relation between the magnets and current flow through the magnetic field as seen in the patent papers. Its very coler-ish. regardless of whatever magic mechanism is going on with the batteries.

It would appear you have to strip out the IC regulator from the lithium pack. Most cellphone batteries and laptop lithium have on board charge control.

Be VERY careful if you puncture a lithium battery bag it will explode violently
with a gush of FIRE!!

Now i tried one today it was a 3.7v nokia battery it was very dead. It measured 0v.

So i cut open the pack and inside is the lithium bag. Don't puncture it or melt
it with a soldering iron or you will be in a world of shit!

Coming from the edge is two foil strips one i managed to solder a wire on it
which is hard not to get any heat near the battery bag. The other one was broken
short so close i dare not risk an iron close to it so i just managed to hook a
croc clip on it. It measure 2.9v wo the regulator IC was disconnecting it as
they are supposed to below 3 volts. I spent about 15 mins swiping a few neo
magnets all over it, front back etc and connected up 2 off 100,000Uf caps so
200,000uf in total. The voltage went up to 3 volts on the caps and shorting it
made a good crack on the screwdriver.

I can not reproduce the results in the patent with what i have here i also wound
250 turns of magnet wire around it and zapped it several times with a 12v
battery. Again i did not notice any effect of extra volts or anything unusual  on the
caps. I don't have any magnetic strip stuff. If you are going to do this i
strongly suggest you buy Radio Control LiPO packs as they do not have any
battery electronics and its safer easier to get to the raw lipo cells. The RC
lipo helicopter cells cost only about $1.50 each.

Most of the magnet strip you can find on Ebay have a north pole strip and south pole strip. They name them A and B strips which attract to each other for door closers etc. Now i do not know if these strips are the same polarity as discussed in the patent but there are hundreds of suppliers of all the same A and B magnet strips on Ebay.

I've got lots of bare Lithium ion cells including some with slightly different chemistries (LiPo, A123 type and some other less common types).  A few have control circuits but most do not.  All of them are round cells of various sizes.  Lots of magnets too so I'll give this a try as soon as I can understand what you need to do for a test.  I've also got several super caps.  BTW most bare lithium ion cells are charged to 4.2 volts (never more than that for safety and longevity of the battery) and will run at 3.6 volts or so under load.  Try to never let them go below 2.8 volts or they will suffer damage and shortened life. 
   bolt,  hope you didn't breathe any burning lithium cell fumes as that stuff is really bad.  I'm on another forum where lithium batteries are discussed all the time and they've got some real battery experts there.  They have occasional explosions with these as they are largely used in sealed devices.  Most problems happen from cell reverse charging when you have multiple cells in series or from overcharging and too fast discharging. 

Does anybody know what is meant by The letter M in a circle on the diagram . Motor ? Meter ?

I'm reading the patent info right now.  One thing I find of concern.  He says he completely discarged the Li-ion cells to zero.  For one you should never do that both because it's dangerous and because it's damaging to the cells.  Li-ion cells are nothing like NiMH or NiCd cells.  From reading the info it almost sounds like he thinks they are the same or similar in use as NiMH.  Running a Li-ion completely to zero is very hard on the cells but they will self recover quite a bit of voltage if it only is done a couple times.  Just mentioning this but that is not to say it is a hole in his idea - just a concern as I was reading this. 

Quote from: neptune on March 04, 2011, 02:17:51 PM
Does anybody know what is meant by The letter M in a circle on the diagram . Motor ? Meter ?

Motor - it's in the Patent

e2Matrix
Quote:
Running a Li-ion completely to zero is very hard on the cells but they will self recover quite a bit of voltage if it only is done a couple times.  Just mentioning this but that is not to say it is a hole in his idea - just a concern as I was reading this.
--------------------------------------------
Sir you are absolutely correct,This is a humungous no no with lithium batteries!

Surely he knows this! perhaps a prerequisite conditioning of sorts ,to attain the "Effect"?

Dot the "i"'s and cross the "T"'s [details]!

Chet

Chet,  Yes I hope if anyone is trying this that they realize how explosive these cells can be under a dead short.  It doesn't always happen but I've seen enough pictures of the damage from them to know people here need to be aware of it.  I'll try first without that step of shorting but might sacrifice a couple if it doesn't work without that.  For anyone trying this I'd suggest heavy fireproof box outside with protective gear like face shield and heavy gloves etc.  Preferable to short and then stand back a distance.

   One thing I haven't figured out yet is whether it makes a difference whether the N or S is near the positive of the battery.  It looks like the drawing shows the North pole by the positive battery pole if he is using standard battery schematic convention. 

@e2M atrix. Thanks for answering my question . If we look at the above diagram , the cells are surrounded by what appears to be magnetic strip . One edge has a N pole and one a S pole .One can buy self adhesive magnetic strip on Ebay . To get two strips to magnetically attract , you need to buy two different types , A and B . This suggests to me that the strips are magnetised through the thickness , so type A has the adhesive on one side , and a N pole on the other side .Type B will have a S pole on the non adhesive side .{ I am guessing so A and B may be reversed .] The magnetic strip in the diagram has a different orientation .The sharp edges of the tape appear to be the poles . If I am right , we cannot use this cheap tape for the job . Other opinions desperately needed.

Neptune,  that may be correct.  I'm not sure yet but from watching the video quickly (and still haven't let it finish) I thought I was seeing large bar magnets under the battery or batteries taped together.  I'm also finding that all Li-ion cells I have are encased in metal.  So they stick right to a magnet.  I just put one on a flat Neo magnet with N at the + and S at the - of the battery.  I've got a big cap across it but not sure what to do now.  I've charged and discharged the cap a few times and the battery has not lost any voltage yet (measured out to 0.01 volt accuracy).  I'm looking for something to run from it but far from sure if I understand correctly the concept yet so at this point I'm just tinkering with the hope of finding a nice surprise :)

This thread is only 2 pages long but its quite amazing that no one reads back TWO pages and reads the other posts particularly   on the magnetic strips.

Also regarding shorting lithium if you READ the patent he says he SLOWLY drained the cell down to dead. If you short it of course it will overheat and could explode unless the protection circuit kicks in. Also he says you DO NOT have to drain them at all to explain the effect can recover dead cells as well as working ones. The cells no longer work in normal mode so forget all about 3 volt = dead or 4.2 = FULL this is all meaningless when using magnetics to polarise the ions.

Well i done my testing on this today we need others to try it someone must have some magnetic strips handy??

@e2matrix . Pleased you are at least trying something . I am not sure , but I think the bag type cells used in model aircraft/helicopters are not metal encased . I have one or two if I can find them . I keep having a vision of a row of microwave ring magnets , of which I have many , with a row of cells inside them , but not sure if this is the right orientation . I feel that with this device , those who don't speak German are at a disadvantage .

Quote from: bolt on March 04, 2011, 03:43:47 PM
This thread is only 2 pages long but its quite amazing that no one reads back TWO pages and reads the other posts particularly   on the magnetic strips.

Also regarding shorting lithium if you READ the patent he says he SLOWLY drained the cell down to dead. If you short it of course it will overheat and could explode unless the protection circuit kicks in. Also he says you DO NOT have to drain them at all to explain the effect can recover dead cells as well as working ones. The cells no longer work in normal mode so forget all about 3 volt = dead or 4.2 = FULL this is all meaningless when using magnetics to polarise the ions.

Well i done my testing on this today we need others to try it someone must have some magnetic strips handy??

Yes I tend to jump around a lot and not read everything.  But on the draining of the cells I mostly wanted anyone reading here (especially like I do) to be aware of the dangers with these cells.  Okay I'll go back a read a bit more ;)

The only thing I could find about the magnetic strips was in the patent.   Basically it says this " magnetic strips with a width of 1cm on the outer edges of which a magnetic substance had been attached in parallel to the longitudinal extension of the strips.  The polarities of the magnets running in parallel to each other were opposed."   I hate it when you have a PDF image of text so no copy and paste.  But I typed that in hoping someone can see it better than I can. 
   From the patent diagram #3 and another statement in the patent it would appear there are strips on either two or possibly all 4 sides of his rectangular batteries.  I don't believe I've got any magnet strips but I may have enough small magnets to make a strip from them.  The rather big claims made in this patent and the relative simplicity of testing this make it worth checking out I believe.  It would be great if it was all this simple to get OU. 

Not sure if this pertains to this or not... The only way I know to charge a capacitor really, really fast is using DC high voltage with high current. The only issue with this method is ensuring a high sampling rate to measure the cap voltage and disconnect the voltage source when done. If you do the calculations for charging a capacitor, calculate max Q with rated voltage, then calculate the time it takes for the capacitor to reach this Q with the High Voltage. Typically the time it takes to charge is the ratio of the voltages times the ordinary charge time. Maybe the motor in the Hempel device creates this high voltage?

There is no motor in the circuit.
These are just encased Li accumulators in magnets
charging up big electrolytic caps or
lead acid batteries(accumulators).

Surely you could also power a motor from it, but better first
charge up a few supercaps with it.

He said in the German patent, that he has removed the security
circuit from the cell phone Li batteries he has used.
So he uses the pure Li cells.

As there are 2 different Li cell type on the market,
Li-Ion and Li-Polymer maybe one type is working better ?

I guess also Li-Polymer is a bit safer...

Have a look here:

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries

I Quote:

Over-discharging Lithium-ion

Li-ion should never be discharged too low, and there are several safeguards to prevent this from happening. The equipment cuts off when the battery discharges to about 3.0V/cell, stopping the current flow. If the discharge continues to about 2.70V/cell or lower, the battery’s protection circuit puts the battery into a sleep mode. This renders the pack unserviceable and a recharge with most chargers is not possible. To prevent a battery from falling asleep, apply a partial charge before a long storage period.

Battery manufacturers ship batteries with a 40 percent charge. The low charge state reduces aging-related stress while allowing some self-discharge during storage. To minimize the current flow for the protection circuit before the battery is sold, advanced Li-ion packs feature a sleep mode that disables the protection circuit until activated by a brief charge or discharge. Once engaged, the battery remains operational and the on state can no longer be switched back to the standby mode.

Do not recharge lithium-ion if a cell has stayed at or below 1.5V for more than a week. Copper shunts may have formed inside the cells that can lead to a partial or total electrical short. If recharged, the cells might become unstable, causing excessive heat or showing other anomalies. Li-ion packs that have been under stress are more sensitive to mechanical abuse, such as vibration, dropping and exposure to heat.
Charging Lithium-ion Polymer

Charging Li-ion polymer, also referred as Li-polymer, is very similar to a regular lithium-ion battery and no changes in algorithm are necessary. Most users won’t even know if their battery is Li-ion or Li-polymer. The word “polymer” has been used as promotional hype and does not reflect special attributes other than to know that the battery is built in a different way to a standard Li-ion.

Most polymer batteries are based on a hybrid architecture that is a cross between Li-ion and Li-polymer. There are many variations within the polymer family, and the true dry polymer battery for the consumer market is still years away. Also know as the “plastic battery,” this system was first announced in the early 2000 but was never able to attain the conductivity needed for most applications at ambient temperatures.
Simple Guidelines for Charging Lithium-based Batteries

    * A portable device should be turned off while charging. This allows the battery to reach the threshold voltage unhindered and reflects the correct saturation current responsible to terminate the charge. A parasitic load confuses the charger.
       
    * Charge at a moderate temperature. Do not charge below freezing.
       
    * Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
       
    * Chargers use different methods for “ready” indication. The light signal may not always indicate a full charge.
       
    * Discontinue using charger and/or battery if the battery gets excessively warm.
       
    * Before prolonged storage, apply some charge to bring the pack to about half charge.
       
    * Over-discharged batteries can be “boosted” to life again. Discard pack if the voltage does not rise to a normal level within a minute while on boost.

Stefan, while I didn't see a motor in the video it does show a motor in all of the diagrams in the patent and states the the 'M' is a motor that he ran for 144 hours.  If I covered enough of the patent to understand it right I don't believe he states the motor is an integral part of the discovery but is a load for demonstrating it.  However knowing how patents sometimes intentionally mislead it may be something to keep in mind. 

  Reading a bit further (read I actually slowed down enough to get some details) I see he is disconnecting the batteries from the caps in a timed manner to put the load onto the caps.  This actually all sounds a bit like the Tesla switch setup that Patrick Kelly describes as being used by Electrodyne except for a lack of diodes. 

i found out more about this strip stuff. Its normally  isotropic magnetic material layered on one side with glue side on the other. What this means is the magnetic coating perhaps just 1mm deep has all its poles stacked vertical so that all the north poles point up for the A material and south poles point up for B material. So when they meet they stick together at any angle without alignment problems rather like velcro.

So if you buy this stuff most likely you must buy both A and B strips and either alternate the strips on the battery OR stick A on one side and B on the other. The precise layout is not discussed in great detail on the patent. I can find no material which contains horizontal N and S layered poles which i guess would be Anisotropic Magnetic.

Some details (in german): http://www.patent-de.com/20100429/DE102008053407A1.html (http://www.patent-de.com/20100429/DE102008053407A1.html)

"Ein handelsüblicher Lithium-Ionen-Akku 2, hier vom Typ SAMSUNG SF US 18650 GR mit einer Nennspannung von 3,7 V wird bestückt mit zwei Magnetstreifen 1. Die Magnetstreifen vom Typ 3M 300LSE, Dauermagnetband MG01317 Plastinorm sind auf die Länge des Akkus 2 zugeschnitten und sich diametral gegenüberliegend parallel zur Längsachse des Akkus auf dem Akkumantel angebracht. Wie 1c zeigt, weisen die Magnetstreifen 1 eine sich abwechselnde Polung auf, die sich jeweils parallel zur Längserstreckung des Magnetstreifens erstreckt. Der verwendete Akku weist keine Schutzschaltung auf."

Lion Type: SAMSUNG SF US 18650 GR
Mag Tape: 3M MGO 1317 PLASTINORM

Quote from: sysrun on March 05, 2011, 04:55:36 AM
Some details (in german): http://www.patent-de.com/20100429/DE102008053407A1.html (http://www.patent-de.com/20100429/DE102008053407A1.html)

"Ein handelsüblicher Lithium-Ionen-Akku 2, hier vom Typ SAMSUNG SF US 18650 GR mit einer Nennspannung von 3,7 V wird bestückt mit zwei Magnetstreifen 1. Die Magnetstreifen vom Typ 3M 300LSE, Dauermagnetband MG01317 Plastinorm sind auf die Länge des Akkus 2 zugeschnitten und sich diametral gegenüberliegend parallel zur Längsachse des Akkus auf dem Akkumantel angebracht. Wie 1c zeigt, weisen die Magnetstreifen 1 eine sich abwechselnde Polung auf, die sich jeweils parallel zur Längserstreckung des Magnetstreifens erstreckt. Der verwendete Akku weist keine Schutzschaltung auf."

Lion Type: SAMSUNG SF US 18650 GR
Mag Tape: 3M MGO 1317 PLASTINORM

You could have least posted a translation!


"A standard lithium-ion battery 2, in this type SAMSUNG SF U.S.
18 650 GR with a rated voltage of 3.7 V is equipped with two
Magnetic stripe first The magnetic strips of type 3M 300LSE permanent magnetic tape,
MG01317 Plastinorm are tailored to the length of the battery 2 and the
diametrically opposite parallel to the longitudinal axis of the battery on the
Battery jacket are attached. How 1c shows the magnetic strips 1 have a
alternating polarity, which are parallel to each
Longitudinal extent of the magnetic stripe extends. The battery pack has
no protection circuit. "

Lion Type: SAMSUNG SF U.S. 18 650 GR
Mag Tape: 3M 1317 MGO PLASTINORM


So i understand the magnetic strip now you MUST buy both A and B strips and and apply one of each to each face of the battery. In which case ebay has hundreds of sellers of this stuff. Batteries are best to buy Radio Control Lipo as they have no protection built in.

"Wie der in 1b dargestellt Querschnitt zeigt wird der Akku 2 zusammen mit den Magnetstreifen 1 von einer dielektrischen Folie 3 umhüllt, auf der gemäß einer Ausführungsform der vorliegenden Erfindung eine Aluminiumfolie angebracht ist, die den Zylindermantel des Akkus vollständig einhüllt.

Der hier gezeigte Lithium-Ionen-Akku ist gewickelt, ähnlich einem Elko-Kondensator."


The battery  is coated with the magnetic strip with a dielectric film on which an aluminum foil is attached, which surrounds the cylindrical casing of the battery completely. The shown lithium-ion battery is similar to a capacitor.


@bolt: What you mean? "A and B strips" ?

The 300LSE-Tape is a simple double-sided tape. Maybe the "dielectric film" quoted above?

Hi All,

Attached is a drawing from the (german) patent. From there it gets clear that the magnetic tape is stuck to the Li cell with double faced tape, just to hold it in place. The magnetic tape itself is MGO 1317 . It has has "lanes" of north and south poles along it length. This can be clerly seen in the drawing and is also explained in the text of the patent.
The tape is found here:
h**p://catalogue.3m.eu/en_EU/EU-IATD/3M_Reclosable_Fastening_Systems/Magnetic_Tape/td~Magnetic_Tape~MGO_1317/Magnetic_Tape#

regards

Dutchy

@sysrun.A dielectric film is mentioned , applied to the aluminium foil . Capacitor dielectrics can take many forms , air , mica ,plastic etc , or the paste in an electrolytic capacitor .Perhaps it is this paste being referred to .  Is it not strange how what appears as a simple device always becomes complicated .The devil is in the detail , as ever . This idea is special , as it probably lends itself to home construction .

According to the patent there is a conditioning process for the cells. In this process the cells ARE briefly short circuited after which a futher conditioning takes place.
Here is what the german patent says about conditioning the cells:

====== translation
For conditioning the ion cell(s) they are first charged to the rated capacity. This can be done by a conventional method. Subsequently, the ion cells are short-circuited for a short period in which there is still no noticeable heating of the cell. It has been found that this period should not exceed five seconds, and preferably the short circuit takes place for only two seconds. A strong warming of the ion cell, ie more than a few degrees C °, is to be avoided, as this indicates irreversible destructive processes within the cell.

An in this way conditioned ion cell, particularly a lithium-ion battery is already showing a higher efficiency, compared to a conventional not conditioned ion cell. This effect can be further enhanced if the following conditioning steps are followed. There follows a further charge with a charging current of between 10 mA and max. 400 mA to a voltage which is about 10% above the rated voltage of the cell and the charge current has dropped to below 10 mA. Subsequently, the ion cell is controlled discharged with a a current of between 80 mA and 600 mA until an abrupt voltage and dischargecurrent drop is observed. Then, the above-described charging and discharging process is repeated and checked again for the  accelerated voltage drop.

Such conditioning was carried out on lithium-ion battery type SAMSUNG SF 18 650 GR U.S., where the charge was a charge current of 80 mA until the cell poles at a voltage of 4 V system (nominal voltage of 3.7 V cell ) and the charging current dropped to 10 mA. Then, the lithium-ion cells were discharges with a current of 160 mA until the voltage at the poles of the cell dropped to 2.5 V. After recharging, as described above, the lithium-ion cell was discharged to a voltage of 2.95 volts.
===== end translation

regards,

Dutchy

Hi,

Some more thoughts and questions....

If you watch the video in detail you can see the " cell pack" laying on a plastic container which has all wires going in and coming out.
So far so good, but later on in the video he takes the "cell pack" off the container and then puts it back on. You can clearly see that the "cell pack"is NOT connected to the container with any wires! So WTF is going on?

Then another thing... In the video you can see a whiteboard behind him which shows a schematic which seems to represent the setup on the table.
Note that the video is available on YT in 1080p quality and the schematic can be seen quite well in certain shots!

The more I look into it the weirder it gets....

regards

Dutchy

Quote from: dutchy1966 on March 05, 2011, 07:56:00 AM
Hi,

Some more thoughts and questions....

If you watch the video in detail you can see the " cell pack" laying on a plastic container which has all wires going in and coming out.
So far so good, but later on in the video he takes the "cell pack" off the container and then puts it back on. You can clearly see that the "cell pack"is NOT connected to the container with any wires! So WTF is going on?

Then another thing... In the video you can see a whiteboard behind him which shows a schematic which seems to represent the setup on the table.
Note that the video is available on YT in 1080p quality and the schematic can be seen quite well in certain shots!

The more I look into it the weirder it gets....

regards

Dutchy

Yes, I had noticed that too. I wondered if the 'container' on the bottom had the actual cells?

This stuff only comes up for Switzerland and is a bit pricey

"3M DAUERMAGNETBAND MGO 1317 PLASTINORM (80-1300-0508-7) - 2 Jahre Garantie    249.95"  (CHF = .7746 eur)

More unobtainium???

Ron

Edit: Kerbo in the UK...you can get a whole box of 10 for only 736 Pounds, LOL

My thoughts so far .There is quite a lot of information in the patent . However ,there are still unknowns . Firstly , the magnetic strip .In my opinion , any tape sold in A and B versions is not suitable . The field orientation will be wrong . What is needed is tape with magnetic material only on the edges . I reach this conclusion from the patent diagrams . Given a "conditioned" cell or battery , we need to test the device . The easy test is to charge a very large cap through a very thin wire .Perhaps if we time how long the cap takes to charge it is possible to calculate the average current needed to charge it in this time . We could then subject the same wire to that current for the same time , and see if it melts . If it does , we know something strange is happening .If I am not mistaken , this device is patented in the USA. I suspect that to get a patent , no demonstration would be required . as long as no claim was made of overunity or perpetual motion .However , if this effect is not real , what would be the point of spending thousands of dollars on a patent .With its vast potential in the market place , why are manufacturers not queuing up to buy it ? As allways , more questions than answers .

I have a 0.5 F 15V capacitor which i can also charge in some seconds using a thin wire and a power supply without the wire getting hot, but when i short-circuit the charged capacitor with a screwdriver i get an impressive firework. I don't see any anomalies here.

Quote from: i_ron on March 05, 2011, 11:13:27 AM


More unobtainium???

Ron

Using two CGR18650HM cells from an old IBM laptop...and various combinations of magnets and caps I was unable to see any effect whatsoever...same as bolt

Ron

Quote from: neptune on March 05, 2011, 01:30:58 PM
My thoughts so far .There is quite a lot of information in the patent . However ,there are still unknowns . Firstly , the magnetic strip .In my opinion , any tape sold in A and B versions is not suitable . The field orientation will be wrong . What is needed is tape with magnetic material only on the edges . I reach this conclusion from the patent diagrams . Given a "conditioned" cell or battery , we need to test the device . The easy test is to charge a very large cap through a very thin wire .Perhaps if we time how long the cap takes to charge it is possible to calculate the average current needed to charge it in this time . We could then subject the same wire to that current for the same time , and see if it melts . If it does , we know something strange is happening .If I am not mistaken , this device is patented in the USA. I suspect that to get a patent , no demonstration would be required . as long as no claim was made of overunity or perpetual motion .However , if this effect is not real , what would be the point of spending thousands of dollars on a patent .With its vast potential in the market place , why are manufacturers not queuing up to buy it ? As allways , more questions than answers .

There appears to be patent claims and patent applications over some time period. In the early application gives more detail on battery conditioning but the conclusion is ONLY an increase of some 25% capacity when the cells are preconditioned, shorted and magnetised. Its only when  granted later patent is secured it reveals the "OU super charging" effect on batteries and capacitors. I believe this was a LATER discovery when more tests were done on the battery capacity when magnetised and it was a pure accidental discovery that the caps could be charged and full recovery of motorbike battery.

If this is true and i think it is the case then it means the old conditioning process no longer applies and indeed the later patent backs this as a claim where it states batteries of normal full capacity  OR 100% depleted can be used after protection circuit removed. Because the later discovery is no longer seeking a NORMAL charge and the 25% increase in conventional charge characteristics no longer applies!

I spent a while looking at this magnetic flexible stuff and like you i thought the polarity   was wrong. The patent is very misleading. It shows the tape as having a north edge and a south edge. BUT no such tape exists i can find as my prior post. When you look at the video then compare the patent all becomes clear. Its not ONE tape with a north and south edge its TWO bits of tape with a gap in the middle as per the box on the table. The patent is drawn pointing to a north and south edge but it means TWO separate A and B  strips! Knowing this now makes perfect sense as the tape is positioned over cells polarising the ends to magnetise the ions.

The cylinder batteries i have no idea what that is doing there as they don't connect anywhere because all the lithium cells are in the rectangular chocolate coloured  block covered in strips of North A strips and B south strips magnetic tape below. So the top side in freeze frame you can see a strip NORTH A then a copper looking gap in the middle then a Strip SOUTH B in the patent appears as ONE tape but this is NOT the case. For a start,  tape of this characteristics would have NO practical  purpose contrary to patent info states COMMON magnetic tape found everywhere. 

So go on ebay now you can buy A north and B south magnetic strips for about 1.50 per ft.

Quote from: i_ron on March 05, 2011, 06:28:19 PM
Using two CGR18650HM cells from an old IBM laptop...and various combinations of magnets and caps I was unable to see any effect whatsoever...same as bolt

Ron

You mean to tell me you cant run your house and car of it then? Well im shocked:)

Quote from: dutchy1966 on March 05, 2011, 07:56:00 AM
Hi,

Some more thoughts and questions....

If you watch the video in detail you can see the " cell pack" laying on a plastic container which has all wires going in and coming out.
So far so good, but later on in the video he takes the "cell pack" off the container and then puts it back on. You can clearly see that the "cell pack"is NOT connected to the container with any wires! So WTF is going on?

Then another thing... In the video you can see a whiteboard behind him which shows a schematic which seems to represent the setup on the table.
Note that the video is available on YT in 1080p quality and the schematic can be seen quite well in certain shots!

The more I look into it the weirder it gets....

regards

Dutchy

Hi Dutchy,
yes, I think this in alufoil coated zylinder does not have much effect, as it is not connected or is only
connected via one pole to the copper foil below.

Also all the small coils of the white wire there are probably only there to distract
possible investors from the real Li-accumulators being inside the magnet bars there on the
table.
The real plus and minus pole are these copper rods that stand vertically and from where the 2 small
copper wires go away to the other 2 lead acid batteries and to the manual switch.

I am in contact with one of his spokes persons and they wanted soon to post another video.
I hope that they will do this soon.

Regards, Stefan.

@bolt . If your observations are correct , and I have no reason to doubt them , Then a basic proof of concept experiment becomes much easier . All you need to do is discharge the Li-ion cell/battery ,through a resistor , and finally short circuit it , and confirm zero volts . Then fit the magnetic strips as you describe , and finally try to charge an electrolytic cap with it . If this works , try charging a depleted lead acid battery . Would you agree ?

Well that is what is says in the LATEST patent.  Not earlier ones and applications ONLY showed how to increase a conventional charge by 25% using the magnet strips and follow a charge protocol.

SO First remove all the protection electronics. Then use a safe load to drain the battery slowly. When its flat then short it some more so its totally dead. Then add the magnet strips A and B polarities paying attention to the edges and polarity.  Finally add capacitors and see what happens. Later in this patent is says the batteries don't have to be dead but i guess if you want to be convinced they can provide a real capacitor charge then starting off with dead shorted batteries is more convincing.

This is basically it in a nut shell. I tried this all ready couple of days ago see early posts. After stripping out an old Nokia phone battery and stuck 1/2 inch neos all over it tried all combinations and never see anything unusual. Maybe the mag strips are VITAL I don't know.

The BIG question is this. If the concept can not work or appears a pipe dream then why bother spending load of money on patent applications and patent writers if it can not possibly do something very interesting? Not just one patent either he has several related technology patents and applications for fast charging and reforming capacitors.

Hi All,

I did read some more reading of the patents that are available. There is a remarkable thing he noticed using the prepared ion cells.
According to him, a clamp meter will read a current in the thin wire that should have melted the wire! But it doesn't!!
If he then uses a current, from a power supply, that is equal to what the clamp meter read, the wire will melt!

So it seems to generate a magnetic field around the wire that is much stronger than the actual current flow would suggest.

This is why he says that the "loading-signal" has different properties than "normal" current.....
It "signals" to the cap or battery to separate charges.....

regards,

Dutchy

Quote from: bolt on March 06, 2011, 09:41:17 AM
Well that is what is says in the LATEST patent.  Not earlier ones and applications ONLY showed how to increase a conventional charge by 25% using the magnet strips and follow a charge protocol.

snip

I don't know what year this was... but Takahasi had a go at this some time ago... I wonder what became of him?

Quote:

"Another novel use of Takahashi's new magnets is to extend the life of rechargeable batteries. Thin inch-wide squares of the magnets, when attached to mobile phone batteries, apparently double the amount of charge the batteries retain, allowing the batteries to last twice as long between charges, for the same load. In fact this battery doubler is already commercially on the market in Japan, where at least 100,000 of them have been sold. Takahashi has announced plans to set up primary manufacture of his supermagnets in Great Britain, north of London, but requires a 20 million pound investment to do so."

Now note that he was using very powerful magnets, not sign board strips.

Ron

Quote from: dutchy1966 on March 06, 2011, 10:26:20 AM
Hi All,

I did read some more reading of the patents that are available. There is a remarkable thing he noticed using the prepared ion cells.
According to him, a clamp meter will read a current in the thin wire that should have melted the wire! But it doesn't!!
If he then uses a current, from a power supply, that is equal to what the clamp meter read, the wire will melt!

So it seems to generate a magnetic field around the wire that is much stronger than the actual current flow would suggest.

This is why he says that the "loading-signal" has different properties than "normal" current.....
It "signals" to the cap or battery to separate charges.....

regards,

Dutchy

if there is this effect ..... there are different types of current:
http://inamori-frontier.kyushu-u.ac.jp/electronics/research_en.html

Quote from: wings on March 06, 2011, 11:33:53 AM
if there is this effect ..... there are different type of current:
http://inamori-frontier.kyushu-u.ac.jp/electronics/research_en.html

Hi Wings,

Seeing this effect is also present from dead cells, which would mean there is no charge current, are you saying it might be pure spin current thats going down the wire? And that doesn't heat up the wire apparently....

regards,

Dutchy

Hi Folks,

When he charges up a supercap to 20V within 1 second via that piece of wire, what he measures with the clamp meter is the initial peak current which exponentially should decrease as the cap charges up from its 0.1 -  0.2 V (say zero) to the 20V. What is important is the time and a decreasing current till the full charge up. I believe the wire has no time to heat up, it surely warms up to a certain degree, an infra camera or a direct touching thermometer would surely show the new temperature, (possibly a few degrees C higher than the room temp).

In case of a power supply however there are at least two factors to be considered:
1) the inner resistance of the power supply compared to the series Li cells inner resistance
2) the output voltage of the power supply does not decrease exponentially and it surely maintain the voltage he adjusted it to get the same peak current he read from the clamp meter. So the power supply is able to feed much more power to the same wire, hence it can melt...

I do not question the magnets may change something inside the Li batteries and may increase its capacity but the 'proof' with this wire test versus the power supply is not a good one.

Gyula

Quote from: dutchy1966 on March 06, 2011, 10:26:20 AM
Hi All,

I did read some more reading of the patents that are available. There is a remarkable thing he noticed using the prepared ion cells.
According to him, a clamp meter will read a current in the thin wire that should have melted the wire! But it doesn't!!
If he then uses a current, from a power supply, that is equal to what the clamp meter read, the wire will melt!

So it seems to generate a magnetic field around the wire that is much stronger than the actual current flow would suggest.

This is why he says that the "loading-signal" has different properties than "normal" current.....
It "signals" to the cap or battery to separate charges.....

regards,

Dutchy

Quote from: gyulasun on March 06, 2011, 11:54:26 AM
Hi Folks,

When he charges up a supercap to 20V within 1 second via that piece of wire, what he measures with the clamp meter is the initial peak current which exponentially should decrease as the cap charges up from its 0.1 -  0.2 V (say zero) to the 20V.

Gyula

Hi Gyula,

The initial peak current from a dead Ion cell????? Besides the measurement is also done on charging dead motorbike batteries, which are fully charged in 20 minutes.
Secondly, I don't think it's peak current because he (Hempel) would know about that. He is well versed in the matter. See his youtube video about his lab and the equipment he works with..... He's not a rookie.

Anyway, there is not much more info about it in the patents so I guess we won't know.....

regards,

Dutchy

Hi Dutchy,

Sorry, misunderstanding,  I did not know you meant a dead Ion cell when you mentioned "prepared ion cells" in your last but one post...  Is it known how much voltage is involved across the dead Ion cell? Just around some hundred mV?

I thought of the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAtqPL_maeg where he showed charging a supercap to 20V from the 'magic' Li cells via the piece of wire and the wire did not melt, then he discharged the supercap by the piece of wire and it melted first, then got red hot till all the charge was consumed from the cap.
So I believed that in the case of the test you referred to, (and it is not in this video) he measured the peak current when he charged up the cap, then he used the power supply set to a voltage which insures the same initial peak current, this is all.

Gyula

Quote from: dutchy1966 on March 06, 2011, 12:09:52 PM
Hi Gyula,

The initial peak current from a dead Ion cell????? Besides the measurement is also done on charging dead motorbike batteries, which are fully charged in 20 minutes.
Secondly, I don't think it's peak current because he (Hempel) would know about that. He is well versed in the matter. See his youtube video about his lab and the equipment he works with..... He's not a rookie.

Anyway, there is not much more info about it in the patents so I guess we won't know.....

regards,

Dutchy

Quote from: dutchy1966 on March 06, 2011, 11:48:00 AM
Hi Wings,

Seeing this effect is also present from dead cells, which would mean there is no charge current, are you saying it might be pure spin current thats going down the wire? And that doesn't heat up the wire apparently....

regards,

Dutchy

strange use of a magnetic effect
???
free speaking .... some effect of spin current can explain wire vibration in TPU experiment rapid variation of signal voltage with no current at all (Einstein-De Haas effect) http://www.zeitnews.org/chemistry-physics-and-material-sciences-research/could-the-combination-of-general-relativity-and-quantum-mechanics-lead-to-spintronics.html

My feeling is that spin is the first effect when you apply a potential (need less energy you have to align spin not move electron or ion , less energy?) 

Quote from: gyulasun on March 06, 2011, 12:28:06 PM
Hi Dutchy,

Sorry, misunderstanding,  I did not know you meant a dead Ion cell when you mentioned "prepared ion cells" in your last but one post...  Is it known how much voltage is involved across the dead Ion cell? Just around some hundred mV?

Gyula

Hi Gyula,

No problem about the misunderstanding. In his patents he says that the ion cells are drained through a load and when theyre dead they are also still shorted for a while..... So the voltage can't be much.
He also states that is doesn't really matter if the cells are charged or not... apperently the affect doesn't come from the charge.

Maybe it has something to do with spin current as Wings suggested....

Dutchy 

Quote from: wings on March 06, 2011, 12:40:50 PM
My feeling is that spin is the first effect when you apply a potential (need less energy you have to align spin not move electron or ion , less energy?)

Hi Wings,

Hmmm, could the magnets on the ion cell setup a spin current that travels to the cap/battery, and the spin current also causes charge separation in it? Guess I have to study spintronics..... don't know enough about it.

Dutchy

Quote from: dutchy1966 on March 06, 2011, 01:30:04 PM
Hi Wings,

Hmmm, could the magnets on the ion cell setup a spin current that travels to the cap/battery, and the spin current also causes charge separation in it? Guess I have to study spintronics..... don't know enough about it.

Dutchy

???
3.1. Electric Field Induced by Spin Current
By Biot-Savart law, an electric current may induce a magnetic field in the space surrounding it. Correspondingly, can a pure spin current induce an electric field? The answer is yes! Associated with the electron spin, there is a magnetic moment. According to Sun, Guo and Wang [10], for a spin current, it also accompanies a corresponding magnetic moment current.

www.cospa.ntu.edu.tw/aappsbulletin/data/18-5/29_Spintronics.pdf

There is no point guessing the type of charge going into the batteries. The only thing that can be said that in order to charge a 5 farad capacitor in one second from dead would usually need 100 amps or more.  Its the very reason they are used on 5000 watts+ car stereo systems to supply mega amps when the voltage fluctuation may not exceed 0.5 volts thus using huge thick wires bolted to the cap terminals. Im sure a thin telephone wire will not have quite the same effect.

This doesn't appear to be the case when the effect can be achieved using dead flat shorted out batteries. Call it whatever you like, Spin Current, Scalar waves, swamp gas it ain't a normal electron current and naming the effect based on pure theory will not help reproduce it either.

Hi!
Mr. Valery Ivanov of Bulgaria has a new video. It shows the module in INKOMP photovoltaic electrical system. Efficiency of electric-magnetic itself module is 450%! Unfortunately, his comment was in Bulgarian. Such a system based on INKOMP very good solution for electric cars. Would increase their elapsed distance of more than 2 times!
Here's the link: http://inkomp-delta.com/page10.html

Hmm  Ion batteries and magnets..  Could it be that the magnet has a "quenching" effect on the electron flow, by separating, allowing only ion flow?   Like Tesla spark quenching..  I know the 2 are far apart, but it sounds good.

Mags

Very interesting video. Maybe he has found a way to transport energy in a cold status - but now the essential question arises:
Do the charging accumulators (the 2 small batteries in the silver cylinder) drain insanely fast when he charges the capacitor, or not?
If they drain insanely fast he has not got that much, but
If they don't drain a lot he has got something very precious...

I hope his upcoming video will clear this up :) I'm feeling a prickling sensation

Quote from: gauschor on March 06, 2011, 06:47:09 PM
Very interesting video. Maybe he has found a way to transport energy in a cold status - but now the essential question arises:
Do the charging accumulators (the 2 small batteries in the silver cylinder) drain insanely fast when he charges the capacitor, or not?
If they drain insanely fast he has not got that much, but
If they don't drain a lot he has got something very precious...

I hope his upcoming video will clear this up :) I'm feeling a prickling sensation

The prickling sensation is just cramp because you have been slumped over your computer for too long.

Going back to the original device . If this is real , and bolt and I have pointed out you would not spend Mega money on a patent if it was not ,we need to leave no stone unturned in order to duplicate it . As always , we have ambiguous information . The consensus is that we start with a discharged Li-ion cell / battery .The big question as I see it is the orientation of the magnetic field . and its strength .Here is another idea to try . Look at the second diagram in reply number 2 of this thread . It shows a coil around the cells .There are in fact 2 coils , end to end . Note that one is clockwise and one anti clockwise . Working from one end , this gives 2 fields  , going N-S-N-S . I would recomend powering this initially from an outside DC source .One could try reversing the supply .or try just one coil , and again try both current directions . If this works , we can deduce from the diagram that whatever type of current this device produces , it is capable of producing a magnetic field ,or mabe he is just covering his arse in case someone else creates a variation on this diagram that works .The use and sale of the cell phone booster magnets in japan only proves the 25% increase in battery capaciy , not the main effect .

I made a mistake in my last post .The field of the 2 coils will be S_N_N_S and not as stated above . @gauschor . The accumulators will not discharge extremely fast . In fact they will not discharge at all , since they are already totally discharged to start with .[read previous posts .] I have just reread the patent . and it states that the cells are "densely covered " with the magnetic tape . I think it was bolt who suggested cutting down the width of the tape to form very narrow strips , and using A and B type tapes alternately .

@neptune: I was talking of the 2 charging batteries within the "silver foil", not the lead acid batteries in the middle. I know that the lead accumulator is empty, but not the small source batteries. And these need to be measured afterwards. Even a blinking light can drain a battery fast.

Since the rough description on the youtube claims that it provides constant high output with low input only, I could assume that the source batteries drain much slower than usual. But it's only assumption. I hope that he puts on another video as announced. I am waiting for a little bit more detail on the magnet's purpose and construction.

Btw. I checked the price: a 1 Farad capacitor of the same size and specifications shown in the video only costs about 60$. I estimated the price be much higher.

My first question when i saw his video is "How does he make the contact between his removable "magbat" and the base onto which he places it?

Looking up close I found that the red tapped end was tapped closed and the blue taped end was tapped open and there is a small metallic stem that is inside the blue tapped end. Then there is a wire on the base that is there to contact that metal stem. (See images.)

When the video demo started, he had already set up the magbat on the base and put that contact wire through the blue side needle hole. It was simply passed through the the needle hole and held tight enough to do the demo. Once he removed the magbat, that connection was severed so when he put it back on the base, he would have had to redo that connection point and hence divulge how he got his connection between the magbat and the base.

Then looking at his patent sheet 1 of 4, the magbat has an internal winding like in bucking mode to there are only two contacts required on the magbat as described above.

Then on his patent the wound coil comes out of the magbat and is in parallel with a capacitor bank and the load, so those two black rectangular containers must be the capacitors, but are they? That is the question. So if those two boxes are not batteries, then his device is truly a quandary. But if they are batteries, then this is simply a good show.

As to how it works, I have a theory but that's all it is, a theory and not really important right now.

wattsup

interesting OBs but its all too much like the TPU. Nice videos to wet your appetite but the main meal is missing.

@stefan

I am sorry to seem to break the party but I feel when I see something I must come forward and hopefully sooner then later.

I think I must clarify the above post a little more.

The image entitled magbat-contact-points1.jpg was grabbed before he removed the magbat. Notice how the contact wire is connected inside the stem needle hole.

Then the image entitled magbat-blue-end-matellic-stem3.jpg was grabbed just as he puts the magbat back onto the base. Notice now the contact wire is not connected because this would require some direct attention to that connection point. Something he would not want to do in a demo.

You see, the main crux of his demo holds because his magbat base only has one copper strip onto which the magbat is positioned. So automatically, one would say "how the hell is it possible to just place that magbat onto one strip of copper and have it work". But now we see a second contact point and this changes the game.

Before we waste another century I suggest you find out about them black boxes. (bb) If they are capacitors, then this is very good. If they are batteries, then this is very bad, or, there is a side-effect that is worth looking into.

So let's look further. Both meters where connected on the black boxes and they did show less then 1 volt when he discharged. Don't forget one thing, I am only analyzing this because I don't want to waste more months, but I can tell you now, it does not look that good.

At the beginning of the video we can see the load cap red wire was not connected to the bb. At 43 seconds he shows the Fluke287 that is connected in parallel to the bb and it showed .1545 vdc. He wanted to show us the bb was not charged. But what you don't know is he was shorting out the bb while the camera was on the Fluke meter. But the camera was on the Fluke to long and when he removed the short we see the voltage rises to 21.110 vdc, so the bb is a battery after all. Two in series of probably 12vdc each.

At 1.31 he shorts out the load cap to bleed it and shows .027 vdc on the green multi-meter (gmm). The load cap is still not connected to the bb.

AT 2.19 HE PUSHES THE ON BUTTON FIRST THEN HE HOLDS THE RED WIRE FROM THE BB AND THE RED WIRE FROM THE LOAD CAP AND AT 2.38 HE MANUALLY TOUCHES THEM TOGETHER. The On switch means nothing because the bb is a 21 volt battery and it does not matter if the switch is on or off, but he wants you to think it does matter.

You see the voltage rises on the load cap to 19.54 vdc.

At 3.24 he shorts out the load cap and we see sparks and the shorting wire does glow off the positive end. This is the curious part, that everyone will say "how can you charge a 1 farad capacitor to 20 volts in one second and then make that wire glow when it is shorted?

OK, does anyone have a 1 farad capacitor that you can charge to 20 volts and then short out with a nice wire. I think 20 volts 1 farad should singe the wire so fast and blow it up. Not just make it glow. Someone can do the test please and report back.

If you report back and the 1 farad cap does in fact kill the wire immediately, then we know his 1 farad capacitor IS NOT 1 FARAD. He could easily hide a smaller cap inside that big cap and make you think it was charged to 20 volts in one second.

If the report back is exactly as we see it in his video, then we have to take one step back and now we know there is something special here, but not before because the video does not give me good vibes at all. It gives me the trickery sensation all over again. We have seen them before.

Now at 4.19 the gmm is at .669 vdc just before he hits the two red wires together again. He holds them together much longer then the first time and the voltage rises to 17.30 vdc then when the cameraman sees he is going to pulse the wire again, the cameraman pans off the gmm on purpose while he flicks the wires a few more times to then bring up the voltage to 20.38 vdc. This is not OK to do like that but probably the bb power was dropping and he heeded more time to charge the cap, But you can realize the conscious effort on his part to avoid letting you see certain things is just troubling.

At 5.05 he shorts the load cap again and we see another glow of the wire.

The rest of the video he talks, lifts up the magbat, puts it back, takes a shot under the glass table but I could not see under the load capacitor.

In general I am very skeptical of his video because he obviously is looking to hide things and hide behind tricking with the camera, and, actually doing a very poor job of it. I personally think this is a dud,

Firs of all why have two volt meters at the same point. That was weird and he did not realize he showed 22 volts on the Fluke meter. He tried to trick us into thinking the bb had no voltage.

Then, he did not show the capacitance of his 1 farad capacitor. Since he was using such a big capacitor, he should have shown that measurement as well because the capacitor is bulky and could easily hide a smaller capacitor inside of it.

The test I mentioned above would put that question to rest. But if you want my opinion, a 1 farad capacitor charged to 20 volts would have just toasted the wire in half a second. So many things are not right with this demo.

Man, I love these videos, they are such a challenge. But this one was too easy. I do not believe this person is seriously authentic with us and would advise extreme caution especially if you are thinking of sending money, because at one point, that may be the goal.

If a new demo is done but with more measurements, verification of the capacitance of the load capacitor, measurement across the magbat base and then we see something out of the ordinary, then I will reconsider, but right now, I would say be careful because it does not look good.

Yes, I could be totally wrong, ignorant, blind, but, I love OU to much to leave any stone unturned, hence just making sure that our time and our attention is not deviated for another pipe dream. But deep down, I hope I am wrong, but hope is not enough.

wattsup

Quote from: wattsup on March 07, 2011, 11:49:46 PM
@stefan

I am sorry to seem to break the party but I feel when I see something I must come forward and hopefully sooner then later.

snip
wattsup

Excellent observations wattsup! I believe you are quite right. It is a nice fit with my unease in certain parts, I mean if you did have something that worked as stated, why the poor, rambling, confusing demo?

And why so many unidentified items on the table?

Ron

Sounds like it would be a good idea if Stefan would invite him over here since he is apparently in Germany.  At least Stefan can talk readily to him in his native language and if he only speaks German then we could ask him to use Google translator or we can use it here on his posts.  But either way it would be nice to know his reaction to such a request given wattsup's observations. 

He explained that there is no secret hidden battery within the 1 Farad capacitor (he was also mentioning an anektode in which he let his invention test other physicians and let them take apart the capacitor completely. There was nothing in it but the electrolyte and the aluminium foils).
Call me a believer but I think he is correct with that and the secret lies not in the capacitor or in the lead acid battery but instead only in the mysterious construction within the silver foil - which he hasn't disclosed fully yet.
We only "know" that he uses permanent magnets, prepared foils and a coil to make it work, but we don't know actually how he has arranged the parts. I admit I haven't read his patents yet. However from experience mostly  people do not disclose a very essential detail making their invention  actually work.
He claims that not current itself is transported, but the information of charge separation. This information is transported much faster than the actual flux of current.
He also explained that if he puts in an ampere metere when charging up the electrolyte capacitor it would take very long and abandoning the effect. Therefore he can't really put that device into the circuit. Since this could be a new type of current transport this statement can be valid. He also said that he has observed this quick charging effect only on electrolyte capacitors and accumulators.

I agree though we need more details. Hopefully he will disclose them, as he has already filed different patents.

@guaschor. Please read previous posts . The Li-ion cells inside the silver foil are COMPLETELY DISCHARGED ,or the patents says can optionally be charged .@ Wattsup . 10 out of ten for observational skills . However if he has to fake it , HOW and WHY is he applying for an expensive Patent . Even Mylow , king of fraudsters did not apply for a patent .

@neptune: there is no proof that the 2 accumulators within the silver foil are empty, regardless what Stefan said in the first page. For your information I am also a german native speaker and he (the inventor) does NOT claim that anywhere in the video! He only claims that the flat accus are empty. Nothing more and nothing less.

In my understanding the flat empty lead acid batteries act somehow as a buffer. However the 2 small source batteries in the foil need to be charged to provide some power (or in that case to provide the "information").

I find the US patent very interesting  .. US2010159293A1.pdf

Has anyone noticed Claim 28 ….

Here he is talking about the ability of the ion cell (covered in magnets), to charge a galvanic cell  … ie lead accumulator, nickel cadmium, nickel metal hydride accumulator etc etc  (see Claim 30)  …

Quote“28. The device according to claim 27, further comprising that the electrical energy released to the galvanic cell from the ion cell positioned in a magnetic field during a charging time t₁ is less than the energy withdrawable during the discharge cycle t₂ of the galvanic cell.”

Unfortunately the patent doesn’t include a timing diagram to show the relationship between t₁ and t₂  …  but it still sounds like a pretty bold statement to me.

Either t1 is much shorter than t2 and therefore the accumulator is going to go flat pretty quick  ...   and what is the point of using the system  ...  or this does actually allow more energy to be drawn from the battery than is supplied by the ion cell to keep it going.    :)

First of all I do not want to create unnecessary commotions. You have to understand that this is exactly the problem as you mentioned about the M guy (I will never say his name again) that I know to well. We have seen this before. It will not be the first time someone patents something that may not work. Then making a good video is just to then show it does work and this video now gives your patent some serious meat to bite on. So the patent gives you rights and the video gives your patent rights some value.

Also, note that just before he shorts the battery, the voltage on the battery read 23.210 vdc. Then he shorted the battery showing 0.1545 vdc. Then when he removed the short the battery read 21.110 volts. This is a normal battery depletion but what bugs me is that he wants you to think there is .1545 vdc in the black boxes. This attacks his own credibility right away.

Then we have the position of the on/off switch. It is not a momentary switch that you press for on and when released it goes off. There was no volt meter after the switch to show it is even activating anything so the switch could be always open and never even on the circuit. You see, when he charged the 1 farad capacitor for the second time, his hand went to the switch but he pulled it back because he knew it was already on. Big mistake again. If that switch was always on and the circuit through the magbat was always connected, then why did the magbat side not heat up after all that time being on. So the switch is maybe a fake also.

Then there is the patent itself that calls for a magbat in parallel with a load capacitor, in parallel with a load. But his demo shows a magbat in parallel with a battery in parallel with a hand switched load capacitor. This is not the same thing at all.

The last point is when the cameraman looks under the glass table, it is so obvious there is nothing under the table. Anyone with eyes could understand this. But then why did the inventor put his hand under the table and place it right under the 1 Farad capacitor?

I know, it could all be consequential. But in my experience, nothing is consequential. Everything has a reason. All our actions have reasons. My own look at this stems from my high desire and hope for this to be real, mixed with my learned reality that so many are not and just want to trick us.

Again, I am not saying this is trickery. I am just saying that before someone jumps in the air yelling "free energy" or spend months on this, we better do more due diligence.

But the last last thing that bugs me is this. The inventor has a patent. With the patent, this protects him against others stealing it from him. So why all the secrecy about the magbat? What do you have to hide and why hide it when you have it patented?

wattsup

I have watched the video a couple of times and still am not sure what I’m looking at.

Not being able to understand German is frustrating also.

What I have done, is spend a couple of hours messing with an old Li ion battery from my phone.

It has been lying around the workshop for several years ‘for such a time as this’.

I checked to see if it still had any charge  …  and I was amazed to read 3.8 volts  …. despite having not been used for 3 years.

I removed the small charge control cct board, and then used a 12v 3 watt globe to discharge it so I could flatten it safely, but it’s charge held for 10-15 minutes dropping only .3 volts. I added another in parallel to try and hurry it up.

Obviously a 12v globe on 3 volts is pretty dim, but it took over an hour before the filaments had no glow at all. Then I put a dead short across it to flatten it properly (over lunch).

When I removed the short, the voltage was around .15volts, but started creeping up immediately  …  ending up at around 2.2 volts after half an hour.

I hooked up a couple of 650,000uF caps (yes 1.3Farad) and messed around with various combinations of magnets and no magnets  …  plus some smaller caps.

The caps would charge up to 1 â€" 1.2 volts fairly quickly, and when I left them hooked up for half an hour they reached 2.2 volts also. Removing the ion cell and shorting the caps and then starting again just repeated the process.

Sadly I haven’t seen any anomoly during the experiment, but would like to try several cells in series to try charging a battery.


Just one comment on the video  ...  if he was using six cells in series  ...  even if they had been discharged fully  ...  they quite likely would have crept up in value just like mine did  ...  and that could easily explain the 22 volts showing on the rh meter.

Quote from: wattsup on March 08, 2011, 08:42:26 AMAlso, note that just before he shorts the battery, the voltage on the battery read 23.210 vdc. Then he shorted the battery showing 0.1545 vdc. Then when he removed the short the battery read 21.110 volts. This is a normal battery depletion but what bugs me is that he wants you to think there is .1545 vdc in the black boxes. This attacks his own credibility right away.

Quote from: wattsup on March 08, 2011, 08:42:26 AMThen we have the position of the on/off switch. It is not a momentary switch that you press for on and when released it goes off. There was no volt meter after the switch to show it is even activating anything so the switch could be always open and never even on the circuit. You see, when he charged the 1 farad capacitor for the second time, his hand went to the switch but he pulled it back because he knew it was already on. Big mistake again. If that switch was always on and the circuit through the magbat was always connected, then why did the magbat side not heat up after all that time being on. So the switch is maybe a fake also.

These are exactly the 2 points which are also unclear to me:

I assume that he wants to show that when he shortens the 25V batteries and they go down to 0.15V that there is no amperage, otherwise the thin short circuit wire would melt at this point already. In my view the same principle is shown here as if you are working with electrostatic potentials: voltage difference is available but no power. Therefore I think he has only got a potential difference of 22V.

Then the position of the switch. The switch obviously separates the circuit of the black flat batteries from the silvercoated ones: however I am actually not sure if he switches the circuit on or off. He just says he "switches".

(I assume that he switches the circuit on so that magnetized/silver coated accus do their polarizing action or something like that. In my view the black batteries are probably obsolete.)

@Wattsup . It is almost always hard to follow a new technology . But human nature , and the love of money may be easier to understand . This patent , if the claims are real ,is    
worth several million dollars . But an investor is going to want to see more than a written patent and a crappy video . He will want independent validation as a minimum . Why spend time and a lot of money starting something that is bound to end in tears? If we can answer that question , everything else will become easy .

Ok, now that I have read some of his patents I can see his written statement that the source batteries can be discharged. Ah interesting also that he mentiones that you don't need to use deep-discharged Li-Io accus: "[0041] Furthermore it should be noted that also possible to use non-discharged accumulators". Now the conditioning process is not necessary anymore? - this would at least solve some explosive headache trouble.

Also I'm unclear about the magnetstripes or wires to form an electromagnet. In one of his sketches he has shown a magnet with North aligned to the + pole and South to the - pole longitudinal aligned to the shape of the battery. Or is it a simple long magnet stick? And does each Li-Io cell connectedin series (in his patent) have its own magnet or is it a long magnet stratched over all connected cells (with poles only on the outer ends?...

Just a couple notes.  Since I've used Li-Ion cells a lot and keep track of their power in my usage they are nothing like NiMh, NiCd or lead acid batteries.  It is normal that they will recover a lot of voltage from a high use event or even a short if you don't damage them too badly or blow them up. 
   
    Another thing about this patent is that unlike many things that have been investigated here this one seems simple.  It would seem so at least with just a battery, magnets and a capacitor.  So one would assume it would not be too difficult to at least notice some anomaly by playing around with these 3 components that would indicate there is really something to dig deeper into.  So far nothing.  I did stumble across a patent that sounded like a similar claim recently (forget what it was at the moment).  Unless something major is being withheld in the patent I would guess we'll find the effect before long if there is anything really there.  So at this point I'd be pushing to get in communication with this guy to feel out whether anything is missing in the patent.  Any German speaking members up for this?   

@gauschor. I am pleased that you have found , in the patent where it says that the cells/battery will work in the discharged or the charged condition. So it is probably not normal current we are dealing with . As a German speaker , you may be able to help this thread along by contacting the inventor ? From the patent diagrams it is not easy to work out the best relationship between the cells and the magnetic field or fields .In one diagram , as you say , we have a long bar magnet running alongside a row of cells . In the diagram with the coil , we have two opposing coils with a SNNS set up . and finally we have the magnetic strips , where the lines of force run at right angles to the length of the cells , rather than parallel as in the first two arrangements . Only experiment will show which , if any , works best . Patent drawings are often drawn by non technical draughtsmen , and are often confusing , sometimes deliberately so .

Quote from: neptune on March 08, 2011, 09:53:12 AM
@Wattsup . It is almost always hard to follow a new technology . But human nature , and the love of money may be easier to understand . This patent , if the claims are real ,is    
worth several million dollars . But an investor is going to want to see more than a written patent and a crappy video . He will want independent validation as a minimum . Why spend time and a lot of money starting something that is bound to end in tears? If we can answer that question , everything else will become easy .

@neptune

You would not believe what investors are willing to do to get in on some action at such a ground level. It is cut-throat tactics, whatever it takes to get in before the next guy. And in the end, if it fails, most investors will say "it's only money!!!!".

@all

If anyone is speaking with the inventor, we need to know the wire type and gauge he used to create the short circuits on the load cap. If the inventor has nothing to hide, he should not object to providing this information. Then if someone can go out, get the wire and if they already have a 1 Farad capacitor and try it out. A dc power supply that goes up to 32 volts can charge up the capacitor. Then short the wire on the cap and see the reaction. This one experiment will say it all. Before that is done, there is no real point in starting all these theories.

Due diligence is a must for all such devices. I don't really care about investors monies since that is their problem with whom they decide to invest. But I do care about wasting time and guys have given us the grand story so many times that we have lost our ability to question, to observe, to logically deliberate on what is presented in order to make a sound judgment call on the feasibility of such demos.

I almost fell into the same trap because I immediately had my own theory on how the magbat is working, given what I saw on the surface of things. I was just about to post something when I looked again at the video. But this time I decided to use my VirtualDubMod software that let's me get in so close to the movements. I saw a bright reflection when he took off the magbat and that is when I realize I need to look at this much much closer.

Anyways, I am really sorry to have pushed the thread into a deeper initial look.

wattsup

PS: If anyone can read the German patent, does it specifically talk about the feed source. Not the magnet/battery but the actual feed power supply required, because there is nothing in the drawings showing a feed source such as is shown in his video.

Wanted to try the experiment, unfortunately my collection of capacitors only reach together reaches 2.000µF only, which is way too less. Also I don't got any magnet stripes but lots of magnets bar only. Needless to say that putting magnets in diverse arrangements on a "badly conditioned accu" didn't change anything. However this was not a replication, by no means. I guess you really need a clean setup...
A check on the available shops showed me that the cost for reproducing this setup would cost at least ~ 200â,¬ (60â,¬ for a capacitor that size and 60â,¬ for each of the magnet stripes Type A and Type B). To invest that money this device should really be proven first.

Regarding contacting him: I thought Stefan has already said in one of his posts, that he has contact to one of his spokesman? @wattsup: the diameter of the copper wire is 0.2mm as he claims in the video. Besides everything else available has already been said and translated in this topic, so we are not really missing any points.
Also I agree that his setup in the patents is not exactly the same as in the video and therefore maybe some hidden changes took place he didn't mention yet.

@Wattsup. You said you are sorry to have pushed the thread into a deeper initial look . There is nothing to be sorry about , and your video analysis and perceptive examination are , I am sure , valued by all . The comments about desperate investors was very revealing .I once had a home made conjuring trick , where two rollers appeared to print banknotes . It taught me a lot about human nature . I could have sold it many times for up to £1000 , but I know I could not run fast enough .
           It is possible that the charge signal effect uses what has been called "cold electricity " . Does anyone know a simple and reliable source of cold electricity ,which could be used to charge lead acid batteries ? That sounds a bit like the Bedini energiser , but so many people have tried to replicate that , without success .

Quote from: gauschor on March 09, 2011, 05:47:56 AM
@wattsup: the diameter of the copper wire is 0.2mm as he claims in the video. Besides everything else available has already been said and translated in this topic, so we are not really missing any points.Also I agree that his setup in the patents is not exactly the same as in the video and therefore maybe some hidden changes took place he didn't mention yet.

@gauschor

Are you absolutely sure he said 0.2 mm diameter. This equals a wire of 32 American Wire Gauge (AWG). If that is true then this is all totally a real joke. A 32 AWG is nothing wire. That 1 Farad capacitor loaded to 20 volts should have killed that wire in 1/2 a second of shorting it. I mean totally blown up. Not just glowing like it did. There is no way that capacitor had all that power inside of it.

Well I think this goose it cooked. I really hoped that there was something there but unfortunately, that video is just one more joke in the Laugh-In series.

I think if the inventor is serious, he will have to make another video and put all his cards on the table and not try to play games. If there is an effect to learn from this device, his video did not do the job.

wattsup

@wattsup: yes I am absolutely sure. I think he choose the extremely thin wire on purpose. I understand what you say and it's perfectly reasonable. However you might missed the parts of the video where he actually confirmed what you say:

The inventor confirms multiple times that the 0.2 mm would already have been burned/killed when charging up the capacitor. But it didn't happen and the inventor claims that the wire didn't even get warm. He has found that a kind of energy is transported which is "cold" or which doesn't produce Joule's heat, contrary to electric current we are used to.
He says the "information of charge separation" is transported. This information cannot be measured with an amperemeter. As soon as the capacitor is charged by that "signal" (he explicitely doesn't call it current) we can use the charged capacitor as usual.

That said, I agree that he should provide another video, because this video is not sufficient.

Hi,
Today I had a phone call from a member of the IMP company.

Mr. Hempel will contact me in the next few days  and
he is currently working on the new video.

So please be patient.

Thank you.

Regards, Stefan.

@stefan

Thanks for that very good news. I hope you understand that when he puts out his next video, we will be looking now even closer to make sure the demo is up to par with what all would consider a valid demonstration, of course, within the logical limitations of what can be proven via a video.

The video should show the following.

1) Capacitance reading of the big capacitor.
2) Lift the capacitor and show us underneath has not been tampered with.
3) Non-shorted voltage of his feed batteries.
4) Show the on/off switch is actually switching on and off. Use a small light bulb or led or the volt meter.
5) Show the difference between charging the load capacitor with only the battery and charging the capacitor with the battery via his battery/magnet device.

If his device is in fact genuine, then it is in their total interest to make their next video completely transparent with no funny tricks otherwise they will be noticed. If he can do this, then it will be a good day for all.

I do have great hopes for his device because of one major observation and it is this.

If the inventor knew the device had batteries that could have supported charging in the demo with an intelligent capacitor hidden inside that 1 farad jumbo jet, and, if his removable magbat was just a toy distraction, then why go to the trouble of having the contact point #2 on the blue tape side of the magbat? The only answer I have for this is that his device does work, but not to the visual impacting level he wants to actually make people get really interested in his device. So he embellished the capacitor charging ability in his last video, but such attempts will always leave traces of inconsistency that will eventually be detected.

He just has to be open about it and not play games. If the real effect is very slight, then show it as it is and do not try to make it seem like something it is not. We would rather see 1 watt of OU then 1 megawatt of tricks.

wattsup

Mr. Hempel has called me today.

He has offered me to bring my own large capacitor
and invited me to personally  look at his setup.

He also said that important things have been omitted from the patent
so it's not as easy to rebuild it, and that now already
only capacitors work as the energy source, so one does not necessarily
need to have lithium batteries as the source.

Since he is supported by a the company financially, he can not, unfortunately,
give it out as OpenSource .

But if  something serious would happen to him he has made ​​sure
that everything would be widespread.

He is now in the process to finish  the new video.

The case he told me seems really to be and
to work like this, that only the information is transferred, that the
capacitor needs to be recharged.
Therefore you need to invest  very little source energy.

So let´s just wait to see the new video,
where he will address a few questions that were asked also
here in the forums.

After this I will call him again and try to fix a visiting date.

Regards, Stefan.

Thanks for this new information, although I must admit this is a heavy bummer (but in some way expected) :(

Quote from: hartiberlin on March 11, 2011, 05:22:36 PM
He also said that important things have been omitted from the patent so it's not as easy to rebuild it

Quote from: hartiberlin on March 11, 2011, 05:22:36 PM


He has offered me to bring my own large capacitor
and invited me to personally  look at his setup.


After this I will call him again and try to fix a visiting date.

Regards, Stefan.

Thanks for the update Stefan, lets just hope some more information will come to light!

Bis späeter

Ron

@all

Instead of explaining how a 32awg or 0.2mm diameter copper wire will react to a 1 farad 20vdc discharge, I thought it might be more appropriate to show you so I made a youtube video using 2 x 150000mF capacitors in parallel to obtain 300000mF discharge at around 20 vdc. The video is self explanatory and located here.........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQXy99SGuFg

The point is that in his video, the inventor says once the 1 farad capacitor is charged super fast to the 20vdc level, you can use this available energy to use in all conventional ways. Well then how is it that when he discharged his 1 farad into his .2mm wire, why did it not pulverize immediately as I will show.

So there are discrepancies in what is being said and what is being shown. I understand perfectly well that his patent does not cover all that is required. What else is new. Anyways "we shall see" said the blind man.

wattsup

Hi wattsup
That was a great video and reminds me of one a while back where the guy vaporized his wire  ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMWRvAI4o2E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMWRvAI4o2E)
anyway great work as always, I don't know why you're not an elite member yet  ???
I have always found you to be dedicated to finding the truthful answers to OU over the years.

Thanks for this interesting demonstration, wattsup. I again checked the video from Hempel to verify I didn't misheard the 0.2mm, but he repeats it 2 or 3 times, so there is no doubt. Since you are showing in your demonstration that the wire of 0.2mm almost *violently explodes* - but the wire from Mr. Hempel not - I somehow begin to doubt how much energy really is in Mr. Hempels capacitor.

I am not so convinced anymore of this overunity device... maybe his capacitor is charged with some kind of "electrostatic Volts" only...

Quote from: gauschor on March 13, 2011, 05:56:01 PM
Thanks for this interesting demonstration, wattsup. I again checked the video from Hempel to verify I didn't misheard the 0.2mm, but he repeats it 2 or 3 times, so there is no doubt. Since you are showing in your demonstration that the wire of 0.2mm almost *violently explodes* - but the wire from Mr. Hempel not - I somehow begin to doubt how much energy really is in Mr. Hempels capacitor.

I am not so convinced anymore of this overunity device... maybe his capacitor is charged with some kind of "electrostatic Volts" only...

Hi Gauschor,

Would like to ask if Hempel mentions any info on the material of the wire? Is it copper, alu or what else? 
Because I can see it as a bright wire as if it was chromium-plated and as such it would have a much higher resistance than a copper wire had. I think of resistive wires used in electric heaters, toasters, etc.

Thanks,  Gyula

@gyulasun

May I say your inquiry is valid indeed and I am happy to speak with you again. It has been some time and I know you are doing well. I say "I know" because saying "I hope" is totally bad for the one receiving the intention.

Yes the wire could be some other high resistance 32awg wire.

Notice how my wire just glowed completely and fell apart. There was no spark, but yes I was at .3F but still at 20 volts. Now look at his sparks in the image I grabbed below. Nice sparks indeed. So after these sparks, he hit it again and then he got his wire to glow. He lost a good part of the energy just in the shown spark.

Anyways we will see. If his device does work like he says, then this is big stuff

wattsup

Hi wattsup,

Thanks and I agree the inventor surely consumed much energy in the first sparks by not letting the wire to contact too long and then the rest of the stored energy glowed the resistive wire.

In fact, the wire material does not count too much in this situation, I did not mean this as a "proof" of anything but just an observation. A highly resistive wire can become red hot too within seconds, a mere question of the energy you expose it to.

I agree with your other observations and keep them coming.

rgds,
Gyula

Quote from: wattsup on March 13, 2011, 11:30:34 PM
@gyulasun

May I say your inquiry is valid indeed and I am happy to speak with you again. It has been some time and I know you are doing well. I say "I know" because saying "I hope" is totally bad for the one receiving the intention.

Yes the wire could be some other high resistance 32awg wire.

Notice how my wire just glowed completely and fell apart. There was no spark, but yes I was at .3F but still at 20 volts. Now look at his sparks in the image I grabbed below. Nice sparks indeed. So after these sparks, he hit it again and then he got his wire to glow. He lost a good part of the energy just in the shown spark.

Anyways we will see. If his device does work like he says, then this is big stuff

wattsup

Quote from: gyulasun on March 13, 2011, 07:02:13 PM
if Hempel mentions any info on the material of the wire? Is it copper, alu or what else?

Interesting... Actually he never says what kind of material it is. During the whole 10 minute video clip he only talks of a "thin wire" or "wire" but never mentiones if it's a copper, alu, iron wire or something else . Since he avoids that I must assume it might not be the usual copper wire which I initially assumed.

At 1:36 in the video he says that its "Kupfer", which is german for copper.

Thanks PeterMax, you are correct.

Quote from: hartiberlin on March 11, 2011, 05:22:36 PM
Mr. Hempel has called me today.

He has offered me to bring my own large capacitor
and invited me to personally  look at his setup.
Stefan.

Many Spuercapacitors are fraudently labeled -- they are often only 1/10 - 1/3 of their labeled value! I have personally tested some and returned them.
Any tests should be done with Maxwell Booster caps or similar.  I use the 650 Farad Boostercaps which we tested and found to actually be from 750 - 790 Farad over a batch of 20 of them.

Quote from: gauschor on March 15, 2011, 08:04:18 PM
Thanks PeterMax, you are correct.

Hi Folks,

Thanks for the copper wire 'news', though I tend to maintain my observation on the bright wire issue.  I think now the wire can be either a tinned copper wire or anything else... including resistive wire too. But the main issue is the inventor first makes the sparks, hence reduces the energy stored in the supercapacitor, then he glows the wire with the rest of the energy.

Gyula

@all

Regarding the wire, here is a close up of the wire just before he makes the first spark. While looking at the video motions in close up I can see it is copper wire like we usually use. But that room he is in is soooooo grey that on some angles you could swear it was a tinned copper, but it is in fact light colored copper when you look close enough.

wattsup

Quote from: wattsup on March 16, 2011, 08:28:16 AM
@all

Regarding the wire, here is a close up of the wire just before he makes the first spark. While looking at the video motions in close up I can see it is copper wire like we usually use. But that room he is in is soooooo grey that on some angles you could swear it was a tinned copper, but it is in fact light colored copper when you look close enough.

wattsup

Hi wattsup,

Thanks for clarifying this! I am pleased I did not stir an even higher storm from this in this teacup, lol.
Now looking forward to further happenings from the inventor side... ;)

rgds,  Gyula

Quote from: MarkSnoswell on March 16, 2011, 03:01:19 AM
Many Spuercapacitors are fraudently labeled -- they are often only 1/10 - 1/3 of their labeled value! I have personally tested some and returned them.
Any tests should be done with Maxwell Booster caps or similar.  I use the 650 Farad Boostercaps which we tested and found to actually be from 750 - 790 Farad over a batch of 20 of them.

I agree and that is why I have a few of the 650 boostcaps.  I missed a chance a little while back to get those in the 3,000 F capacity but didn't have the money at that time.  The 650's will melt a good sized wire in a microsecond.  Ask me how I know this?  (accident)

Bill

@Wattsup
many thanks for your video, very interesting.
Could I suggest without you going to t much trouble doing the other half of the experiment using the wire (.2mm...32 guage) to charge up the Cap to see how fast it can charge and if it can handle the load.
Many thanks
Mark

Hi Wattsup.
yes,he said in the video, that he uses 0.2 mm Copper wire,
but in the video it looks pretty big, maybe he made a mistake and took
0.5 mm which is 24 gauge ?

Also as your screenshot shows he used just the bare wire end to make the connection
to an already burned out contact point at the cap, so there was much more
contact resistance than in your example, where you used
the 2 fresh clean pliers to make the contact.

Also his 1 Farad cap might have a higher inner resistance than your 2 caps in parallel.


I spoke today again with Mr. Hempel and he said,
with his Lion-Cells which have a total of 2 Amphours of charge at 24 Volts he can
charge up 2 x 12 Volts 10 Amphours lead acid batteries to full capacity.

So if you put then these 2 lead acid batteries in series you get
24  Volts 10 amphours of energy with an input of just 2 amphours.

So it is an amplification of around 5 :1 energywise.

New video will soon be posted.

Regards, Stefan.

@Stefan
you mentioned he can get the same effect cap to cap, this is far more accurate than doing batteries in establishing stored energy.
Where does he see a practicle application for this?
Mark

You can measure it all pretty exactly energywise by using the charge and discharge curves of batteries
or capacitors.


They are already working on products.

If they will be soon on the market you will get more infos about them.

Regards, Stefan.

Quote from: markdansie on March 19, 2011, 06:04:19 PM
@Stefan
you mentioned he can get the same effect cap to cap, this is far more accurate than doing batteries in establishing stored energy.
Where does he see a practicle application for this?
Mark

Seems to me the practical application is obvious.

Build a black box that continually recharges the magnetic batteries using only 1/5 of the super-charged capacitor energy while at the same time pumps out the other 4/5 free energy forever!  Neat trick if it could be done...but it can't.  There will be some magic reason or excuse or fuzziness...there always is!

cHeeseburger

Quote from: markdansie on March 19, 2011, 06:04:19 PM
@Stefan
you mentioned he can get the same effect cap to cap, this is far more accurate than doing batteries in establishing stored energy.
Where does he see a practicle application for this?
Mark

Just energy amplification circuits .

Put in a small amout of power and get more out.

Saves many atomic power plants ! ;)

Quote from: cHeeseburger on March 19, 2011, 06:56:13 PM
Seems to me the practical application is obvious.

Build a black box that continually recharges the magnetic batteries using only 1/5 of the super-charged capacitor energy while at the same time pumps out the other 4/5 free energy forever!  Neat trick if it could be done...but it can't.  There will be some magic reason or excuse or fuzziness...there always is!

cHeeseburger

And this I was told was already done by him.

But as the cost for the control circuits in this case are too high, first products that will
come are just energy amplificators.

Stay tuned.

Quote from: hartiberlin on March 19, 2011, 11:26:15 PM


Saves many atomic power plants ! ;)

I meant: makes many Atomic power plants obsolete and saves us from any new ones.

This is quite interesting... So basically, the magnet causes "magnetic polarisation" of the
battery, which outputs "magnetically polarised" electrons, which in turn for some reason
experience less resistance and/or flow faster into the capacitor?

And you say Hempel can replace the battery with a cap and have the same effect?

I was first reminded of the "magnetic current" and "magnetolysis of water" by Felix Ehrenhaft.
( http://www.rexresearch.com/ehrenhaf/ehrenhaf.htm )
Ehrenhaft didn't do exactly the same thing, he did it sort of the other way around:
he used two pure iron core (electro)magnets that were stuck into an electrolyte solution,
and when the current to the magnets was on a magnetic field was generated between
these two iron core pieces. Just like in electrolysis, this "magnetolysis" setup caused
the formation of more H2 and O2 than could be accounted for based on the chemical
reactions between the solution and the iron alone.
So it seemed that the magnetic field had some kind of polarising effect on the ions
in the solution, thereby causing an electrolysis effect in the solution, without actually
feeding electricity to the electrodes.

Now at first glance it seemed that Hempel was doing something similar in the Lithium
battery bags; as in causing polarisation of the electrolyte and causing the ions to
seperate and move, without actual electrical action, but solely on magnetic stimulation.

But then I wonder how he manages to get the trick to work using capacitors only.

Of course, if it doesn't really have to do with the electrolyte and if it is mainly a
sort of electron spin effect, then the trick should also work in capacitors.
But that seems farther removed from the Ehrenhaft "magnetic ions" approach.
Which is not necessarily a problem, it just requires a slightly deeper explanation
than the "magnetic ions" idea.

Might it perhaps be a sort of "synchronisation" effect? As in that the electrons
are forced to spin in the same direction while moving, by the magnetic field, and so
there are no electrons of opposing spin in the current, which causes the electrons
to "spread out" over the cap plates more smoothly and evenly, without all
the collisions and interference with and from the electrons with opposing spins,
that normally "pollute" a current?
Just speculating here... ;)

Regards,
Koen

The only thing that can be said that in order to charge a 5 farad capacitor in one second from dead would usually need 100 amps or more.

Magnetohydrodynamic (mhd) effect on ion flux speeds.reduces helmholtz overpotentials.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7EkHm08Te4