The first Closed System Video at the beginning of Overunity.com
omits one important point. The round object is a running
precharged rotating gyroscopic weight. Notice how carefully
he handles it or if not it would flip-out. The constant resultant
RPM really gives it away. The gyroscope precesses when it
is on it's frame...Big deal. Anyone got a segway...stage left?
:S:MarkSCoffman
Quote from: mscoffman on August 21, 2012, 11:15:18 AM
The first Closed System Video at the beginning of Overunity.com
omits one important point. The round object is a running
precharged rotating gyroscopic weight. Notice how carefully
he handles it or if not it would flip-out. The constant resultant
RPM really gives it away. The gyroscope precesses when it
is on it's frame...Big deal. Anyone got a segway...stage left?
:S:MarkSCoffman
I'm not saying this is real (or not) but I disagree with your assesment. No rotation in the weight, inner or outer. If outer, he would not be able to handle it as he does, and if inner, you would hear it, as the all thread is inside of it. IMHO
Cheers,
Bruce
Quote from: Bruce_TPU on August 21, 2012, 11:47:57 AM
I'm not saying this is real (or not) but I disagree with your assesment. No rotation in the weight, inner or outer. If outer, he would not be able to handle it as he does, and if inner, you would hear it, as the all thread is inside of it. IMHO
Cheers,
Bruce
I agree about there being no rotation, you would hear it and would have some slight rocking movement when he picks it up. He seems to be flinging it around a little to hard.
but has anyone else noticed that bar "C" the top horizontal bar never touches the vertical bar?
This experiment does remind me of the classic physic experiment where you have someone sit in a chair that rotates and you have them hold a bike wheel that is in motion and which ever way the rotate the wheel the chair would move.
I do not believe that can work as shown. My personal belief is that there is a motor in the base. The on-off switch goes up through the vertical pole and is activated when the metal bars touch by putting the weight on. IIRC the veproject.org mentioned in the video was a site (does not seem to be currently available) which showed many 'perpetual motion' machines all of which were done with hidden tricks. I don't think they actually claimed they were real but rather seemed to be challenging people to figure out how they were done. IMO - this is FAKE and I'm sure with careful analysis you could explain why with vector math and physics. After all the force being applied is attached to the same object it is being applied to so how can it actually cause movement. Can you get in a cart and push yourself down the road without touching the ground or wheels? I could push on my back as hard as I want but I know I won't be moving anywhere. Same scenario here I think.
Also notice the motion when starting and stopping appears to be a sudden on/off motion with no slow build up or slowdown as one would expect if it was actually being started by a pushing weight. It jumps immediately to one speed and stays there until the weight is removed than it stops totally and suddenly rather than coasting a bit as I would expect.
I am LOLing at this all over the floor.
1. Look at the source of the video. It is from an educational website that is making "working" models of all kinds of historical Perpetual Motion machines.
2. The "explanation" given is a clear mockery of the mistaken mechanics of the typical OU builder who doesn't understand torques and moments and arms. If I didn't know better I'd think it was specifically directed at one or two posters on this very website as a satire of their planned "ou" leverage systems.
3. Certainly there is nothing gyroscopic going on; and anyone who has ever built a REAL gyroscopic precession device knows why and how. For a precession torque to be generated the suspended weight MUST be free to fall, even though it doesn't when precessing. Finally... a TRUE gyroscopic precession demonstrator that exhibits the "Laithewaite" bicycle wheel/rotating chair phenomenon is far more interesting and astounding in its behaviour than this simple bit of stage magic fakery. It will make you believe in antigravity from gyroscopes, the behaviour of a REAL system is that astounding.
I don't know what's more funny.... the fact that these people are doing what they clearly state that they are doing, or the fact that people actually believe that what they are demonstrating... and mocking.... with these videos is real.
;D
Yep, as I thought I recalled this is an educational project I had seen before although that particular item is new. The link they gave in the video is NOT correct as given www.veproject.org SHOULD be www.veproject1.org where you can see this vid on their youtube channel along with other historic 'perpetual motion' machines that are faked. Stefan needs to pull that video as it's a guaranteed fake - only question is how it was done but I wouldn't waste any more time on it except to say it could be done with a hidden motor and battery activated by the weight as a switch. Other possiblities too but who cares...
OR .. it could be real - notice that he doesn't let it revolve for to long before he takes the weight off & replaces it again [the reset].
What is happening is that net torque [turning force] is created on the vertical shaft which makes it revolve - but for that to happen there must be one very important factor.
The 'drive' mass must be able to lose Potential Energy as the system revolves.
PE is given to the system when the weight is lifted & placed on the peg > the mass x distance creates tension & torque in the system > the torque imbalance creates rotational motion > the drive mass loses PE [very very little height loss, almost imperceptible in one or two turns] which is converted into Rotational Kinetic Energy of the system.
N.B. the system KE [Rotational & Translational] equals the loss of drive mass PE less friction & internal strain losses etc, IMO.
P.S. notice when he takes the mass off the levers spring/kick back a little.
Lol... that's pretty funny Fletch... you had me going there for a moment....
;D
This brings back bad memories of trying to make a magnet motor from two attracting non connected levers connected to the center axis both pushing the wheel. A pin sticking up from the wheel would push the lever. One pushing one side of wheel while the magnet was pulling the the lever on the other. You would think if one magnet is pulling a lever and pushing the wheel at the lever end that as it turned would keep the lever and magnet constantly turning the wheel and pushing the other lever with the pin attached to wheel so that it would always be moving. It's convoluted toxic logic and kept me up for days. Didn't work. ;D
Hi All,
Someone sent me a message to show the design. So here is a simple version of it. This kept me up for days, it's a mentally demeaning puzzle. On the outside it looks so simple and logical, but magnets are static and anything connected to them become static.
Quote from: DreamThinkBuild on August 23, 2012, 12:17:00 PM
Hi All,
Someone sent me a message to show the design. So here is a simple version of it. This kept me up for days, it's a mentally demeaning puzzle. On the outside it looks so simple and logical, but magnets are static and anything connected to them become static.
The small fixed magnet experiences attracting force from the bigger magnet thereby producing rotating torque in the opposite direction to that produced by the yellow pegs. These two rotating torques in opposite directions balance each other so the wheel doesnot move. Wheel moves only if small magnet is lifted or detached from the wheel making it an external force.
My intuition (which seems to be valid most of the time) told me right away that could not work because both magnets are ultimately attached to the same thing. When I see something like this I know if I take the time I could reason through it with the physics and force vectors involved but I've learned to trust my intuition as it saves me a lot of time and I'm just too lazy to do all the math ;)
Yep build and learn. ;D I tried building this in 2007 and it caught me good. I tried multiple lever magnetic systems in that time frame, attached is another one. The magnetic catapult came shortly after. The idea with this was to have a large passing magnet push a lever down on each pass and lift a pusher magnet on the outside just as the outside wheel magnet had passed it forcing the wheel forward. Trying to get levers to cooperate and some added sticky spot, I could never get it to work. The wheel has to be a heavy flywheel or it will just bump up, which lead to another design which attached a weight on top to use the slight precession from the bump to add force through gravity... I went through so many crazy designs it's hard to keep track of them all.
Hopefully by posting these failures people don't waste time like I did on them. :D