Hi everyone,
I was on YouTube and found this Magnet Motor that truly works.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiPRXwrWELs
I don't remember seeing a topic on this design, so I started it in case anyone may be interested.
Sorry if it has already been posted before. Stefan can delete it if it's been posted before
Luc
Hey Luc
It seems it is only making the run that it does from the first pull of the magnets. Otherwise he could put it in the middle and it still would want to rotate to the far end as shown, if it worked. Once the first pull gets it going, it runs slower as it approaches the sticky spot. It is a rotary smot. ;)
Mags
Hi gotoluc,
It is both intriguing and frustrating to watch this clip, since the track is far too short to possibly make any conclusions whatsoever.
The reason Mags makes a somewhat premature conclusion in a sceptical direction is mainly based upon the old "faithful" sticky point which hitherto never have failed to put and end to any purely magnetic rotational continuity, although Mags suggestion that the rotor motion is dominated by deceleration does not match with close observation of the clip. As far as I can see, the deceleration of the rotor does not start until somewhere close to the middle of the track, where a notably deceleration is building proportional to the decrease of distance to the last magnet on the track.
Quote from: Magluvin on March 24, 2013, 04:03:42 PM
Hey Luc
It seems it is only making the run that it does from the first pull of the magnets. Otherwise he could put it in the middle and it still would want to rotate to the far end as show, if it worked. Once the first pull gets it going, it runs slower as it approaches the sticky spot. It is a rotary smot. ;)
Mags
Hi Mags,
How about letting him start the thing from the middle?
I have sent him a message asking him for a short clip where he documents such a start.
Regards,
Gwandau
Hey Gwandu
Exactly. Start it in the middle. ;) I watched it a few times for specific things. I believe the guy wants to convey that the rotor on the track will be developing what seems to be a good bit of go, as if it were to continue, it would probably go faster than shown.
But if it did have that much go, then he would have had a harder time unwinding it by hand. I was hoping he would have stopped it in the middle and show 'what we are thinking' , but he doesnt. It unwinds nice and easy ;) , just not out of the entrance or the exit of the track. ;)
So I stand by my premature conclusions here, as they are based on quite a bit of hands on experience. ;)
Mags
Thanks for your replies,
what I found interesting in this design is the rotor can turn 180 degrees many times. That in itself is an achievement! Also, one can conclude the rotor would continue to turn if the stator magnets were continued.
The question is, would it continue to turn if it was built in a circle?
I find the geometry of this design is very natural and thought it would be something to consider.
Luc
This clip is just a cliche: Guy that doesn't understand the notion of magnet position with respect to magnetic potential energy mistakenly interprets his magnet configuration as a source of free energy.
In the clip the rotor is simply "falling" into a gravitational potential energy well created by all of the stator magnets. It's just a glorified version of holding a magnet in each hand that are in attraction. As you bring your hands together the magnets click together and "fall" into their mutual gravitational potential energy well.
Many people do not have an innate or instinctive understanding of what's going on with respect to a magnet's magnetic potential energy as a function of the magnet's position relative to another magnet or magnets and so you get clips like this.
Hi Luc
Haven't seen one like that before, will be interesting to see how it develops, admire his work, not an easy build to replicate, maybe someone can use a simulation program to test the design ;D
Luc
Yes when he states""There you go six full turns""
-----------
He breaks the "gate" Every time {6?}throughout the run,he is also using "sphere Magnets".
and the Post placement in the sphere would seem critical?
Sphere magnets have been attached to several claims here that were removed suddenly by posters,and spirals have been the focus of many attempts [Roberto 33?]
This one using both together!!
Sweet.........
I also like his DNA "spiral" reference.
Thanks for sharing this here!
Chet
Hi Luc,
Thanks for the link. The spinning effect is interesting. I wonder if he could make a cone that has magnets spiraling around the diameter and position the outside magnets so they create that shearing effect without the translation(?).
From experimenting I'm seeing if the magnet is static the path has to be dynamic. If we look at a flipping magnet in slow motion there is a twisting path it takes through space to align with the opposite pole. I'm looking into if that dynamic path can be mapped into a structure that the static(rotor) observer follows.
Slow motion flip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Pp7PVOC5nw
Here(pic) was a recent build of a (non-functioning) spiral track with a helicoidal descent. I tried to lower the gate below but realized that it should be expanding outwards not inwards(doh, build and learn). Also if the magnets rotated about it's central axis while keeping axially aligned to the center of the spiral it might be possible to create that twisting motion.
Regarding the video in the first posting:
As the rotor sticks at the last stator magnets, this design will not work for a perpetual magnet motor... You have to overcome the sticky point, which is not done here...
So I don´t see, how he ever will get this motor to work.
If you will build it up in a circle so the stator track will close itsself, then the forces will be gone...
The only solution might be to use coild wound onto the stator magnets and collect the energy from there and
put it to use to overcome the sticky spot at the end...
Regards, Stefan.
Rotary SMOT, half-V-gate, Perendev.
Hi Stefan,
your solution to overcome the sticky spot could work if the rotor had enough acceleration.
Do you agree the rotor should be able to turn more than 6 rotations if the stator magnets had been continued?
Luc
Quote from: gotoluc on March 25, 2013, 11:23:14 PM
Hi Stefan,
your solution to overcome the sticky spot could work if the rotor had enough acceleration.
Do you agree the rotor should be able to turn more than 6 rotations if the stator magnets had been continued?
Luc
It could probably go pretty far if the magnetic track is made longer. But it is just coasting once the rotor enters the magnetic track, which is common with smots, even though one might thing the magnetic tensions would damp movement or act as a brake in some way, but it doesnt. So it looks like the 'track' is causing movement once it gets started.
If you look into other track based magnet devices, you will see some seemingly amazing runs, but they are all 'powered' by the initial pull into the track. Even Mylow used this in his videos as only one of the few tricks he used during his persistence of trying to show his motor run.
Not saying this man is trying to fool anyone. But he needs to try a couple things(easy things) that can put this to rest or bring it alive, like my suggestions and Gwandau's.
Mags
Thanks Mags
I guess I was impressed that the rotor could turn many times!... but when you think about it more ::) , it's not doing anything more than a SMOT or V-Gate. Just a variation with a twist ;D
Oh well, I guess TK got it right!... doesn't work :P
Luc
Quote from: gotoluc on March 26, 2013, 01:02:39 AM
Thanks Mags
I guess I was impressed that the rotor could turn many times!... but when you think about it more ::) , it's not doing anything more than a SMOT or V-Gate. Just a variation with a twist ;D
Oh well, I guess TK got it right!... doesn't work :P
Luc
No problem. ;]
One thing that is common with these is that the creator doesnt seem to want to conduct tests such as what I have detailed like starting it in the middle. This is usually a tell that the maker knows the flaw. ;]
Mags
Find it exciting to see a design I haven't seen before, :( it would be nice to hope that one day there might be a solution that actually works.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1kJ4ps88aA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ysJA8LRl2s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUcWn1x3Tss
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H401wIAGdlI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2ycczuFEF8&feature=endscreen
:)
Tito, do you think the clip you linked to with the magnet motor on the rectangular metal plate, "!!! Free Energy Demo #2 Magnet motor.mp4", is real?
Quote from: MileHigh on March 26, 2013, 11:13:45 PM
Tito, do you think the clip you linked to with the magnet motor on the rectangular metal plate, "!!! Free Energy Demo #2 Magnet motor.mp4", is real?
:-\
???
>:(
:)
;D :-*
Get your secret decoder ring:
1 13 15 15 39 63 33 21 22 99 37
8)
Hi MileHigh,
QuoteTito, do you think the clip you linked to with the magnet motor on the rectangular metal plate, "!!! Free Energy Demo #2 Magnet motor.mp4", is real?
Don't know if that motor is real, but did dig around to see how consistent it was.
There are some other videos of it and it always rotates the same way consistently when the bar is placed at maybe a 35-45 degree angle at certain distance marked by a spot on the plate. The rotor seems to always rotates towards the facing angle of the bar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6MCBOnYqmo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Maf61RwvIMk
The spacing of the magnets seemed odd on the rotor, so I had to look at them a little closer (pic attached).
My thoughts are the arrangement on the bar is creating a U shaped field of attraction and repulsion the middle magnets on top control the shape of the break between the two fields, if they were not there I could see the two fields create a sharp dividing wall like V creating a gate. The small magnets push it into a U curve.
I could be wrong though, the thing that throws me off on this motor is how it starts seems odd. It doesn't seem like perfect alignment is necessary(?) or as others state something else is driving it.
Quote from: DreamThinkBuild on March 29, 2013, 12:45:40 AM
Hi MileHigh,
Don't know if that motor is real, but did dig around to see how consistent it was.
There are some other videos of it and it always rotates the same way consistently when the bar is placed at maybe a 35-45 degree angle at certain distance marked by a spot on the plate. The rotor seems to always rotates towards the facing angle of the bar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6MCBOnYqmo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6MCBOnYqmo)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Maf61RwvIMk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Maf61RwvIMk)
The spacing of the magnets seemed odd on the rotor, so I had to look at them a little closer (pic attached).
My thoughts are the arrangement on the bar is creating a U shaped field of attraction and repulsion the middle magnets on top control the shape of the break between the two fields, if they were not there I could see the two fields create a sharp dividing wall like V creating a gate. The small magnets push it into a U curve.
I could be wrong though, the thing that throws me off on this motor is how it starts seems odd. It doesn't seem like perfect alignment is necessary(?) or as others state something else is driving it.
Thanks for the effort and analysis you've put into this, DTB.
1. Did he use neo-magnets?
2. Any idea of the orientations of the magnets?
3. Are you considering a build?
4. Any comments on the Yildiz motor?
How on earth does people expect us to accept video clips like these.
To present a novel invention of this magnitude calls for full transparency, these clips just makes you upset and sad, it's actually like they are made just to annoy you.
In my opinion anything deviating from the criteria below STINKS.
1. The active components of the construct has to be assembled on transparent glass, plastic or polycarbonate.
2. Experiment must be performed upon a completely transparent table, at least three feet from ground level.
3. Absolutely essential is a minimum of three feet visible free spacing around the table.
Following these rules allow any scientifically schooled mind to initiate a certain amount of interest. Still such a video is no proof whatsoever, just an indication that it may be worth executing a validation.
Any deviation from the above criteria makes any theoretic speculation totally uninteresting since the video inevitably has to be considered as fake.
Gwandau
Quote from: Gwandau on March 29, 2013, 06:25:18 PM
How on earth does people expect us to accept video clips like these.
To present a novel invention of this magnitude calls for full transparency, these clips just makes you upset and sad, it's actually like they are made just to annoy you.
Well, I wouldnt dismiss anything just because it wasnt presented as you require. The person posting the vid may not be aware of these technicalities required by others.
And Im sure once its viewed by others that require the requirement, the poster can redo, as required or not. Other than that, replications or an on scene investigation would be 'required' beyond any video. If you are familiar with the Mylow saga, once the 'tricks' were carefully identified as to how he kept the wheel turning, anyone would be a bit surprised that someone didnt catch it earlier as some of it was right before our eyes and we didnt see it. At least until someone took the initiative to really look for things, and there they were, along with a confession. ;)
Mylow was a magician of sorts. He had a bit of talent like keeping your attention on portions of the wheel where the stators were, while using his hand, out of view, to move the wheel. Once we 'required' him to show full views, he had problems keeping it going. So he used fishing line and motors to pull off the feat, with good success, for a while.
So dont dismiss anything that you cannot 'clearly' see and understand what type of device it is and how it works. Like the vid presented in the first post. Many here can identify the type as a SMOT. Thats what it is. Now whether the maker intends to fool people or not, depends on his willingness to answer questions and/ or provide vids of certain tests requests from others. For me, it is not necessary, as I can identify it as a smot, pretty much immediately. For those that dont know the SMOT, YT is loaded with them. Then it becomes clear what this guy has. ;)
Some other magnet motor vids are not easily figured out nor identified for type. These should not be dismissed in the least. But if it is not clear as to how it is made and the presenter aint talkin, well, how long should one pursue? Not saying to ditch it, but probably the best thing is to keep tabs and dont waste too much time if things dont develop further. ;)
Mags
Regarding a magnet motor that "Appears" to work, you might want to check out this video! I was impressed!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZwE-uMLg2o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYJzGMilByM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQXArYBAloo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQXArYBAloo)
Quote from: MileHigh on March 26, 2013, 11:13:45 PM
Tito, do you think the clip you linked to with the magnet motor on the rectangular metal plate, "!!! Free Energy Demo #2 Magnet motor.mp4", is real?
Yes I thought it had been largely decided by most people that video was done with a compressed air nozzle directed at the wheel. Note the whole video has no actual soundtrack as it's covered by music. Fake!
I think Dreamthinkbuild may be on to some things in this arena but that particular vid screams fake to me.
e2matrix
Yes I believe this was not taken seriously at the time [seems even a comment from the builder was involved?? ]
there was a thread started here however I have not found it yet??
@Bart [ post 25 above]
A thread is here for that fellow
http://www.overunity.com/8870/muammer-yildiz-magnet-motor/#.UVcm7xeoqSo
welcome to the Forum.....
thx
Chet
Newsnote: http://www.pureenergyblog.com/2013/03/31/802/first-fundraising-goal-met-sterling-going-to-geneva-next-goal-test-apparatus/
@First video:
Looks very interesting, though I believed to see that the rotor slowly lost power after some rotations. Despite the spiral shaped arrangement and axis was new and it reminds me of galaxy spirals. Maybe he found something here.
Hi JouleSeeker,
Thanks.
This is just going from observation of the videos so I may be wrong.
Quote1. Did he use neo-magnets?
Looks like 8 neos on the rotor, 6 ceramic on the stator bar.
Quote2. Any idea of the orientations of the magnets?
It looks like all N pointing outwards from the rotor.
The angles in the picture are pretty rough since perspective distortion isn't accounted for but it does look like an alternating grouping(4 groups) by ~20degrees spaced by ~30 degrees between groups.
On the bar, looking at in Vizimag a N-S-N-S arrangement could be used as it creates a neutral spot at the corner of the angle. It's like the field is folded around one corner then the opposite field is folded back on the other corner in the N-S-N-S arrangement. Other arrangements could be tried though.
Quote3. Are you considering a build?
I did start to build a 3D support structure around a 3" diameter steel cap for the rotor. All the rotors he has in the videos the magnets are backed by metal but not sure what kind. Spring cleaning has slowed me down on the build though. :)
Quote4. Any comments on the Yildiz motor?
What I see, which is similar to the MMD track, is the barbed pattern in the magnetic field. Much like a one way gear or ratchet.
http://www.bsmhturk.com/gallery/magnetic_field_paper/magnetic_field_paper.html
I hope Stirling Allan gleans more information on his trip.
@Gwandau,
I understand it's very frustrating to have to reverse engineer every claim. While some are fairly easy to discount it's also hard to discount the probability that some might be functional without a few simple experiments to test feasibility.
@Bartguy98,
Welcome to the forum.
@E2matrix,
I have doubts about the plate video also, the way it moves when it starts just doesn't seem natural it seems to start even before the bar is bought near. The power bill is only creeping higher every month so it's worth a shot to try though. Material cost and build times have been cut down significantly with the printer. If something doesn't fit just hit the scale button and re-print. :)
DreamThinkBuild:
You are wasting your time. I specifically linked to two YouTube videos to show you how the clip was faked.
MileHigh
Hmmm
"The is no arrangement of magnets that can ever give rise to a working motor without additional supply of energy" The intention of this statement was not just a dismisal of this particular "motor" but mag motors in general. Obviously an initial outside energy source will always be required to start a mag motor. But the indictment of mag motors seems to me to be a curious but common response. There have been several actual working mag motors over the last 40+ years. Having said that I don't have a clue whether or not this specific variation works or not. But that is not the point; the point is that for those machines that do not present obvious flaws, unless you have physically observed the machine first hand no one can be 100% sure that it doesn't work. And it is amusing to watch just how much negativity is unleashed when ever a new machine, idea or concept is unveiled. Occasionally you get the feeling that the closer some one gets to overunity the more determined the attempts to derail it become. The negativity becomes a barometer if you will. This particular thread is relatively benign in comparision to many on overunity.
I am curious about is why there is not more follow up on the many ideas and creations that approach over unity. Taking some of these ideas and putting them in the current context of energy production could yield massive benefits to the world at large. And yet so many good ideas are dismissed out of hand because they fail overunity. This is sad indeed.
Hi MileHigh,
That could be the way it is driven by an external magnet. The design conflicts me though first the movement doesn't seem right but then in the second video running the generator he shows multiple machined rotors, that takes a lot of time to build. Either it's a good hoax and he just likes wasting time on machining rotors or something is there. I question it also but the only way I can put it to rest in my mind is to build it, minus the air compressor. :)
I've been on a magnet kick lately (March Magnet Madness, LOL) building from patents of others to satisfy my curiosity. Yep, so far all these designs the magnets are still static. The MMD track was the only thing that showed movement but it also showed another side to magnets which is decay of the field. The MMD track is essentially dead the rotor gets stuck and will no longer shoot out. I'm wondering if the Yildiz motor will run into the same problem as the MMD track and experience field decay while running a heavy load over time.
Hi Caddpro,
Welcome to the forum.
So far I haven't seen a running magnet motor other than a pulse motor. I keep hearing claims but so far that's all they are. If there is one I think we'd all like to see it.
Hi All,
Does anybody have thoughts on this motor?
http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/127625/UFO__Alternative_Energy_Magnetic_Propulsion_Drive/
@DreamThinkBuild:
Sounds like you have been busy :)
I took a look at the "UFO - Alternative Energy" link you provided. I don't know what to think of it. I certainly wish you the best.
As a side question for you: In all of your "magnet research" have you looked at the Japanese patent #JP53-67814 (pdf attached)? What is your opinion on that design?
truesearch
Quote from: Gianna on April 02, 2013, 05:17:44 PM
This is not just idle speculation but a mathematically provable fact based on the nature of magnetic fields.
WOW! Do you know the nature of magnetic fields? That is absolutely fantastic! Then you are the only person on earth who actually know the source dynamics of magnetism.
Please share it with us!
There are too many wild guesses today about the electron spin being the active source, which we all know of course is nothing but wild assumptions based solely upon the observation of the relationship between the directional spin of electrons in the crystal lattice and the magnetic polarity, which actually only indicates the relationship. As all of us schooled in the scientific community know, this is not by far any proof that validates such a theory.
So please share with us the secret about the source dynamics of magnetism. I can't barely wait. ;D :P ::)
Gwandau
Hi Gianna,
Quote from: Gianna on April 03, 2013, 06:20:54 PM
Irrespective of what magnetism actually is...(whether that be electron spin or whatever) we can characterise the nature of the effects manifested by it.
Wrong, we can only characterize the nature of the known effects manifested by observation attained from our present limited angle of underdstanding.
We still don't know if magnetism consists of a wave that propagates, we don't even know if there is a field in such way as we theorize it.
This absolute lack of knowledge of the source dynamics of magnetism in relation to time space and matter makes us lack mandate to decide whether the magnetic field is conservative or not.
Today it might seem like it is a conservative field, tomorrow new insights may open novel paths of understanding, discarding all the old stuff as premature conclusions based upon wrongly interpreted observations. As long as mankinds mandate in this regard consists of mere observation and no underlying understanding whatsoever, saying magnetism is conservative is by default more talking than walking.
Maybe you are right, nobody knows, but personally I prefer to keep my mind open.
There are still so many possibilities awaiting in regard to magnetism when dealing with future room temperature superconductors and genuine shielding techniques, and so forth. Why hurry into premature conclusions when this area still is a white spot on the map?
Personally I regard magnets as not even being the source of the magnetic effect, but merely acting as "lenses" refracting the very space around them,
but since I have come to learn the nature of your mindset, I won't occupy you with such "nonsense".
But one thing is for sure, on this planet The Age of Magnetism is still to come.
Gwandau
Quote from: Gwandau on April 03, 2013, 04:36:17 PM
snip...
There are too many wild guesses today about the electron spin being the active source ...
snip..
Gwandau
There is still much debate as to the true source of magnetism. While one faction of science favours the idea of electron spin as being the source of magnetism, another favours the neutron as being the source of it. Interestingly enough, both ideas have a multitude of evidence to back them up. And both ideas also appear to have gaps in their relationship between observation and their favoured theory.
Rather than only one of the above ideas being right, it could well be the case that magnetism is a product of more than one interacting force or particle. It may also be possible that both ideas are incorrect and that the observations we make are only observations which indicate how magnetism interacts with and affects the neutron and electron.
Like our understanding of gravity, there still appears to be many gaps in our understanding of magnetism.
Cheers
Gwandu:
QuoteWrong, we can only characterize the nature of the known effects manifested by observation attained from our present limited angle of underdstanding.
I am assuming, and you can correct me if I am wrong, that you too have a present limited angle of understanding. Did you ever sit in a physics or electromagnetics class and go over some simple derivations of Maxwell's equations? One of the simplified ones is that when you do a closed line integral of the force on a hypothetical magnetic monopole in the presence of an unchanging magnetic field, the closed line integral always gives a zero result. So you can take any meandering path and go in any direction, but when you come back to where you started, the net resulting work you have to do to take your meandering path is zero.
What is a simplified example of this in real life? There is a big bar magnet on your bench. You are holding a small bar magnet in your hand. You push the hand-held magnet close to the bar magnet. Then as you move the hand-held magnet back to your starting position you feel the magnet push back on your hand. The net work you end up doing is zero. When you brought the magnet closer, you did positive work. The energy you expended is now stored inside the hand-held magnet and the bar magnet and their associated deformed fields. The axes of the magnetic dipoles of the individual iron atoms are all slightly deflected from their normal orientation. In effect, each iron atom is like a little mechanical spring that has been compressed slightly. The deflected atoms and the deflected fields act like perfect, frictionless mechanical springs. When your hand moves back to the starting position, all the little stressed magnetic dipoles and the stressed magnetic fields will push back and go to their resting position. That represents you doing negative work. That stored energy is converted into the line integral of the (force x displacement) on your hand as it moves back to the starting position. The positive work plus the negative work equals zero net work done.
You do the same test on rotors and the little force vector that you integrate on as the rotor passes the stator becomes trickier because it wiggles, but it's still the same thing. Remember, you can take
any closed path and when you get back to where you started from the net energy expenditure will be zero.
Anyway, check out the action on PESN for the upcoming Yildiz demo for another alleged magnet motor. There is a lot of talk about upcoming testing at the Geneva Expo and it's very interesting.
MileHigh
Quote from: Gwandau on April 04, 2013, 04:50:02 PM
Personally I regard magnets as not even being the source of the magnetic effect, but merely acting as "lenses" refracting the very space around them,
but since I have come to learn the nature of your mindset, I won't occupy you with such "nonsense".
Gwandau
Never thought about magnets acting as "lenses", but sounds reasonable :)
Regards
Quote from: Gwandau on April 04, 2013, 04:50:02 PM
Personally I regard magnets as not even being the source of the magnetic effect, but merely acting as "lenses" refracting the very space around them,
but since I have come to learn the nature of your mindset, I won't occupy you with such "nonsense".
I agree. Faradays paradox should be a clear example. ;) Also, magnetic metals tend to allow like fields to be in close proximity as compared to like fields in open space from a magnets poles where they want to expand outward and away from each other. So magnetic metals are similar to magnets as in the lens effect, just the magnets 'lens' is a bit more 'polished' than just magnetic metals. :)
Mags
Quote from: hoptoad on April 04, 2013, 05:58:35 PM
There is still much debate as to the true source of magnetism. While one faction of science favours the idea of electron spin as being the source of magnetism, another favours the neutron as being the source of it. Interestingly enough, both ideas have a multitude of evidence to back them up. And both ideas also appear to have gaps in their relationship between observation and their favoured theory.
Rather than only one of the above ideas being right, it could well be the case that magnetism is a product of more than one interacting force or particle. It may also be possible that both ideas are incorrect and that the observations we make are only observations which indicate how magnetism interacts with and affects the neutron and electron.
Like our understanding of gravity, there still appears to be many gaps in our understanding of magnetism.
Cheers
@Hoptoad,
thanks for your open minded comment, your respons reflects a scientific mind the way it was meant to be, delicately poised between sound critical thinking and the unknown. I am absolutely convinced that this rare combination of scientific knowledge and open minded curiosity is the primary key to novel discoveries.
Quote from: scratchrobot on April 04, 2013, 07:13:45 PM
Never thought about magnets acting as "lenses", but sounds reasonable
Regards
@scratchrobot,
this concept of magnetism originates from a relativity theory called "Unity" published by David Barclay, which I have tried to make a bit more easily understood by my work called "The Casing Theory" were magnetism is suggested to be much more closely related to gravity than conventional science dare speculate.
The casing theory primarily is an unprecedented approach to the physics behind the extraterrestrial drive, but with it comes not only an attempt to explain magnetism and gravity seen from the Unity-viewpoint, but it as well adresses the very relation between all our known so called forces.
http://www.gravitycontrol.org/forum/index.php?topic=328.0 (http://www.gravitycontrol.org/forum/index.php?topic=328.0)
Quote from: Magluvin on April 04, 2013, 09:07:58 PM
I agree. Faradays paradox should be a clear example. Also, magnetic metals tend to allow like fields to be in close proximity as compared to like fields in open space from a magnets poles where they want to expand outward and away from each other. So magnetic metals are similar to magnets as in the lens effect, just the magnets 'lens' is a bit more 'polished' than just magnetic metals.
Mags
@Mags,
this 'lens' theory has some interesting suggestions. For example, David Barclay has stated that gravity may be manipulated by creating a so called "self sustained unified field system" by arranging magnets in a four tier ring system within an encased container made of diamagnetic material.
If correctly aimed, the magnet array within the casing will create a self sustained field system that will relate to the surrounding field value by its own expressed value, thus arranging its gravitational position in parity with the surrounding field value. He claims this is the dynamics that decides the positioning of planets within our solar system, not the conventional idea of attraction and centrifugal forces.
David Barclay has become a close friend of mine, and I highly regard his humble attitude and graceful approach to his own limited understanding of universe.
Gwandau
DreamThinkBuild -- thanks for your responses to my questions. I wish you well in this research effort.
Glad to see the interest in the Yildiz motor also. Not that I'm "holding my breath" regarding Sterling's trip, but I certainly think this is worth looking into!
Caddpro - welcome, and thank you for these insights:
Quote from: Caddpro on April 02, 2013, 07:59:05 AM
...
And it is amusing to watch just how much negativity is unleashed when ever a new machine, idea or concept is unveiled. Occasionally you get the feeling that the closer some one gets to overunity the more determined the attempts to derail it become. The negativity becomes a barometer if you will. This particular thread is relatively benign in comparision to many on overunity.
I am curious about is why there is not more follow up on the many ideas and creations that approach over unity. Taking some of these ideas and putting them in the current context of energy production could yield massive benefits to the world at large. And yet so many good ideas are dismissed out of hand because they fail overunity. This is sad indeed.
Agreed. You may find interest in this thread: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/8448-mib-now-monitoring-skype.html#post228506
where I comment under my username PhysicsProf.
... [oops, double post]
We may know about the Yildiz magnetic motor by the end of the week, as Sterling Allan has flown to Geneva to observe - along with many others -- the Yildiz device. His day-by-day blog is here:
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Event:2...ean_University (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Event:2013:Validating_Muammer_Yildiz%27_Magnet_Motor_for_30_Days_at_European_University)
Here is a magnetic motor going on public, international display beginning April 10, 2013.
Please note, there is no need to make pre-judgements about this motor; we can observe and decide for ourselves.
Sterling writes:
QuoteQuote: Update (as of April 5, 2013): Mr. Yildiz has been invited by the Turkish patent office to demonstrate his all-magnet motor at the Inventors Expo in Geneva, Switzerland, from April 10-14. They are paying his way. He plans to have more than one motor, and for at least one of them to run the entire duration. The idea is to run it more than long enough to rule out the possibility of hidden batteries inside. Yildiz has invited me to participate in this event, and thanks to so many of you who have chipped in, I will be attending and reporting from there.
This page is to provide an updated chronicle of events pertaining to the test of Muammer Yildiz' All-Magnet Motor at the Inventors Expo in Geneva, Switzerland from April 10-14, 2013. At least three universities will be involved in observing and documenting the demonstrations done there. After the Geneva expo, Mr. Yildiz plans to have the motor(s) tested in a university lab, in a more controlled environment. Yildiz is very determined to achieve vindication, after all these years of people questioning his technology and his motives.
As these things are accomplished, the scientific world [may] have to revise their models of physics that predict that such a motor is impossible. Also, Yildiz will have the verification he needs to bring this to market. He may also do an open license (allowing people download plans, build a company, remit royalty once commercial) on the lower power version in the range of 1 kW.
Sterling is keeping us apprised by his enthusiastic (not to say hyped) vids... Here's the latest I've seen, from earlier today:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TBjeOvZAqKg
Sterling claims that copper pennies will stick to the device... strange if true.
Note that the public display/testing begins tomorrow, 10 April, and goes through 14 April 2013.
IS ANYONE HERE GOING TO THE DEMO?
Quote from: JouleSeeker on April 09, 2013, 09:02:19 PM
Sterling claims that copper pennies will stick to the device... strange if true.
Hi,
It would be good to see it or have some more details on the friction between the device's wall and copper penny and also the angle of the device wall vs the vertical. I say this because the device surely have strong rotating magnetic fields extending beyond the device's walls to the outside so normal eddy currents are easily induced in the copper pennies or other metal pieces near to the device.
Here is a demo on different non-ferromagnetic coins slipping down on the surface of permanent magnets:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prNXC1A26Ig
Gyula
Hi Truesearch,
Sorry for delay been pretty busy. Thanks for the patent, the Japanese magnet motor looks almost like Stefan Hartmann's PM^2 motor. I'll have to look at it some more.
http://energodar.net/energy/magnets/permanent.html
Hi Gwandau,
The lens idea of magnets is really interesting thought.
There is a neat experiment I tried but haven't gone further with it. Make a 2" or 3" diameter ring with the Inner diameter just large enough to go over a pickup coil, the simplest construction method is with a metal wide mouth jar lid. Fasten about 10 or 12 magnets so all north are facing inwards aligned to the center. Take the coil and pass it quickly through the center of the lid while watching the scope. It will generate a pulse, but where is Lenz pushing it's empty(?) space 90 degrees to the magnets?
Hi Webby,
I've just seen your build of Franken Motor, that is a nice build, so that's what it's called a Franken Motor Magnet arrangement. :)
How did your motor come out? Do you think a linear design would work?
Could attach the ring to a scotch yoke with the coil stationary.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotch_yoke
Quote from: DreamThinkBuild on April 10, 2013, 12:44:22 PM
....
There is a neat experiment I tried but haven't gone further with it. Make a 2" or 3" diameter ring with the Inner diameter just large enough to go over a pickup coil, the simplest construction method is with a metal wide mouth jar lid. Fasten about 10 or 12 magnets so all north are facing inwards aligned to the center. Take the coil and pass it quickly through the center of the lid while watching the scope. It will generate a pulse, but where is Lenz pushing it's empty(?) space 90 degrees to the magnets?
Hi DreamThinkBuild,
Your description recalls my recent youtube findings on such setups (if I did not misunderstand it), see this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmJFPLBEysA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmJFPLBEysA) fortunately he shows scope shots albeit from sideways. The waveform shown remembers me the one on the right hand side of this scopeshot from Naudin: http://jnaudin.free.fr/images/magconfig.gif (http://jnaudin.free.fr/images/magconfig.gif)
I wonder if you have found similar waveforms in your setup?
By the way, by searching youtube with words - low Lenz generator - you can find similarly arranged magnets in ring holders fixed onto big wheels and they claim low Lenz effect. Nevertheless, an interesting magnet-coil arrangement for sure.
These are some links on this topic: http://www.youtube.com/user/TechnikerX/videos (http://www.youtube.com/user/TechnikerX/videos)
another experimenter in four parts, part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aXPeOHV0B8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aXPeOHV0B8) etc.
rgds, Gyula
Hi Gyulasun,
That last video is exactly what I had setup but I used rectangle magnets almost touching each other at the ends. It generated a rounded pulse. What is also a neat effect is passing the ring over the coil from left to right will also generate the pulse so the coil doesn't have to pass through the ring. Lenz is more noticeable in that instance though but an interesting effect.
Hi Webby,
QuoteOne of the things I was trying for was more of a transistor effect for the core and that worked very well, dropping my input substantially and maintaining around 50 RPM using about .08ma @ 12V to 24V, at 12V it was about 30 RPM. Franken Motor is close to 27 inches in diameter.
That sounds pretty cool.
QuoteOne of the concepts I had was to only control the flux path allowed in the core, the other was that the single poles facing each other within the holders would create a virtual pole that the coil could draw straight into and repel straight out of without hitting the actual permanent magnets.
I wonder if tilting the magnets so they focus outside the ring would work or if it would just kill the effect of virtual pole? Tilt maybe 5 to 15 degrees so they all point at a single point.
Hi Gyulasun,
I made this quick test of the ring waveform. The original ring I made was dismantled so I tried the failed spiral track which shows a similar waveform. I'd have to rebuild the ring from before to allow passing the coil through the center. The coil was salvaged from a fish tank bubbler. There is no load on the coil to show the waveform. Back and forth produces just as much as up and down which leads me to wonder if the magnets can be slightly titled to push the field more external to the ring? I guess more testing is needed to see if that would work or not.
Hi DreamThinkBuild,
It is very kind of you to do these tests, thanks for your efforts. I also did a simple test in the past to see for myself the waveform Naudin showed on the right-hand side in his scope shot ( http://jnaudin.free.fr/images/magconfig.gif (http://jnaudin.free.fr/images/magconfig.gif) ) because earlier I never positioned a solenoid coil tangentially to the circle shaped rotor of a pulse motor. And my simply handwaving any one pole of a rod magnet at the side of a multiturn solenoid coil confirmed the waveform indeed (Naudin called it as an assymetrical waveform), however I do not agree with him in that the positive peak in the middle part is generated by the collapsing field and not by the moving magnet... I think the full part of the waveform is caused by the moving magnet in this setup. (here is Naudin's page where he wrote about this: http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/mromexp.htm (http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/mromexp.htm) )
You wrote: "Back and forth produces just as much as up and down which leads me to wonder if the magnets can be slightly titled to push the field more external to the ring? I guess more testing is needed to see if that would work or not."
Yes with my 'handwaving' the rod magnet, I also noticed the polarity change you found as just as much as up and down and what you suggest on the slight tilting of the magnets sounds as good idea to 'press' out more juice. My only concern is Lenz drag may also increase...
It is interesting that recently such coil positionings have appeared again and called as low Lenz generators on youtube. It is good that the single magnet poles embrace the solenoid coil in a ring shape arrangement (I refer to the youtube links I gave in my previous post) because the coil's flux can be utilized more effectively in the near space all around and not at the coil ends only as most other setups do. However I am not yet convinced that such setups inherently Lenz free, maybe they have a less Lenz drag than other setups. There is the lack of correct measurements, unfortunately.
Would like to refer to a video ( http://www.general-files.com/go/147592130300 (http://www.general-files.com/go/147592130300) ) where a tangentionally positioned big solenoid coil is used and the waveform across it is shown during operation when it has only an air core and then with a iron core. When Bedini inserts the iron core, the induced positive peak (seen between the rectangular pulses as I indicate with an arrow below) increases from about 2V peak to about 5-6V peak voltage. There is another variant of this setup and it is shown here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TICXxP1jI4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TICXxP1jI4) Unfortunately, he has not started any discussion on these setups, nor he has shown any measurements output-power-wise on those setups.
rgds, Gyula
Here is an interesting one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVFcDOkQm2E
Luc
This guy has an interesting youtube channel. Most of the unique devices that appear to be legit are found there. This one looks easy enough to replicate, but i would like some more info first.
Quote from: gotoluc on April 16, 2013, 11:49:12 PM
Here is an interesting one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVFcDOkQm2E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVFcDOkQm2E)
Luc
Hi Luc,
He also has a website where he states this at the bottom of the page: ( http://www.veproject1.org/vepprograms.htm )
Please, be advised: These Videos are of motorized versions that were built to illustrate how these machines were supposed to work in the minds of Inventors.
His home page: http://www.veproject1.org/
Gyula
Thanks Gyula for setting it straight ;)
Luc
Quote from: gotoluc on April 16, 2013, 11:49:12 PM
Here is an interesting one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVFcDOkQm2E
Luc
I would really like to see one of these designs with coils to pick up some kind of current from them.
It would be best to do at multiple points