From interviews and close examination of the test rig image, I
believe I know how the Steorn machine works.
Note the large aluminum disk has what appears to be four threaded
holes around it's perimeter. Also note that to the left of the disk
are threaded holes in the supporting mechanism. I believe four NeFeBo
magnets are attached to the disk in 90 degree increments and one Neo
is attached to the supporting mechanism.
A mumetal shield is arranged with a camming device such that when the
disk is rotated by hand, the attractive force of the magnets adds
momentum to the disk. When the rotor magnet is nearest the stator
magnet, the cam drops the shield between the magnets sending the disk
over the "sticky point". The cam then lifts the shield and the next
magnet approaches.
They had to convince themselves that they could generate energy so a
worm gear is added to the drive shaft. This drives a large pulley
which is belted to a small pulley. The mechanical energy drives a
generator which subsequently drives a motor. In a similar gear/pully
arrangement they drive another shaft. If you look in the foreground
of that shaft you will see a mechanical brake which can add a load to
the driven shaft using the brass screw. Speed sensors are on the ends
of each shaft.
Just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Terry
Do you have any speculation as to how the shield helps with overunity? I see how it would get the rotor past the sticky spot, but isn't that undone by the work needed to move the shield in and out of place?
Steorn is being talked about so much, it must have the interest of the people here.
I'm disappointed that I'm the only one who has commented on Terry1094's analysis of the Steorn machine. With all of the talented builders that frequent this list, I'd hope a few would attempt to replicate the design he describes, or point out why it can't work. It seems simple even to me: 4 magnets on the periphery of a disk, another, stator, magnet, and a cam to move a shield in and out of the path between the stator and rotor.
The basic principle is probably very simular to
the
www.lutec.com.au (http://www.lutec.com.au)
device.
It was my understanding that the Steorn device was all permanent magnet and some mechanical to shift the shield at the appropiate time? It is hard to tell since very little detail is known.
Quote from: canam101 on August 30, 2006, 10:42:15 AM
Do you have any speculation as to how the shield helps with overunity? I see how it would get the rotor past the sticky spot, but isn't that undone by the work needed to move the shield in and out of place?
It's easy to calculate how much energy is required to raise the shield. It is more of a challenge to calculate the mechanical energy output of the motor. I have been working with Paul Sprain on his magnetic motor which is similar in concept but uses and electromagnet to get over the "sticky spot" and know the difficulty in proving OU. Paul spent over $10k having a custom built torque sensor made for his machine.
Terry
Quote from: canam101 on August 31, 2006, 11:36:54 AM
Steorn is being talked about so much, it must have the interest of the people here.
I'm disappointed that I'm the only one who has commented on Terry1094's analysis of the Steorn machine. With all of the talented builders that frequent this list, I'd hope a few would attempt to replicate the design he describes, or point out why it can't work. It seems simple even to me: 4 magnets on the periphery of a disk, another, stator, magnet, and a cam to move a shield in and out of the path between the stator and rotor.
I'd love to build one but I am having trouble finding a small mumetal sample that I can afford on my hobby budget. Seems that the price of nickel has gone through the roof.
Terry
*cough*
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,933.msg6816.html#msg6816
*cough*
Come on, guys. I posted the above back in the middle of April - think about it...
anyone see this video yet, it shows some more video of the setup
http://news.sky.com/skynews/video/videoplayer/0,,31200-steorn_interview,00.html
Quote from: tao on September 10, 2006, 11:51:29 PM
Absolutely incredible interview. Seems they got it, congrats to them.
They made it fool-proof in their demand of science to test their systems.
Now, lets see if they live or if the scientists will actually publish the results.....
After reading thier patent, it is EASY to see why the system will work...
I hope you're correct! If Steorn turns out like all the others and just fade away then we cannot allow this to discourage any "free energy" research.
Publish.
Paul Lowrance
Quote from: tao on September 10, 2006, 11:51:29 PM
Absolutely incredible interview. Seems they got it, congrats to them.
They made it fool-proof in their demand of science to test their systems.
Now, lets see if they live or if the scientists will actually publish the results.....
After reading thier patent, it is EASY to see why the system will work...
I hope you're correct! If Steorn turns out like all the others and just fade away then we cannot allow this to discourage any "free energy" research.
Publish.
Paul Lowrance
As part of our formation of the new association, I have designed a toy that could be used as a proof of concept that relies on a low energy magnetic actuator (LEMA) to demonstrate the energy stored in magnets. I would like to, before I continue, get some more feedback on Steorn's LEMA patent, like how much energy would be required to move the shield, as compared to moving the shield without the magnets present. At the moment, I cannot find anything that presents test results of the low energy feature of this actuator. I know that someone on the steorn forum posted their "LEMA" out of hard drive parts: http://www.steorn.net/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13112&page=3#Item_25, but it's a bit different than Steorn's LEMA, and he said that a feather could move the shield.
I would like though, some actual test results. I haven't found any references that have built specifically Steorn's LEMA nor any tests. If I had the resources, I would have built one already and posted the test results.
The temporary website of the new association is here until the poll for the new name ends on Sept. 30, 2006.
http://association-steorn.orientalfans.com/steorn
Mechanical shielding or field mitigation at the sticky point is nothing new. The torbay motor is a similar concept, it moves the magnet itself instead of placing a shield in front of it.
Mumetal shields are widely used in hdd's and I have a fair amount of it in my garage, salvaged from hard drives. It does do a really good job of shielding, enough to get it past the sticky point for sure, but it's not light. Moving it with a feather would be a feat of engineering.
Quote from: gn0stik on September 22, 2006, 02:16:02 AM
Mechanical shielding or field mitigation at the sticky point is nothing new. The torbay motor is a similar concept, it moves the magnet itself instead of placing a shield in front of it.
Mumetal shields are widely used in hdd's and I have a fair amount of it in my garage, salvaged from hard drives. It does do a really good job of shielding, enough to get it past the sticky point for sure, but it's not light. Moving it with a feather would be a feat of engineering.
Hi gn0stik,
What part of the harddrive are you refering to as a shield? the casing?
Thanks
It's the piece of metal the Magnets are attached to...
QuoteMechanical shielding or field mitigation at the sticky point is nothing new. The torbay motor is a similar concept, it moves the magnet itself instead of placing a shield in front of it.
Mumetal shields are widely used in hdd's and I have a fair amount of it in my garage, salvaged from hard drives. It does do a really good job of shielding, enough to get it past the sticky point for sure, but it's not light. Moving it with a feather would be a feat of engineering.
I still haven't found anything that shows the actual Steorn LEMA tested. Either it works as they say it does or it doesn't. If it does, how low does the energy have to be do move the shield?
hmm steorn, how did he get on the news, and not ''Steven marks'' or '' Telsa'' or ''Bendi'', if they did please enlighten me...
look at 4,
1. free energy is suppressed to stop energy independance, and to make it harder to resist the new world order.
2. how can Only Steorn be on Main steam news, it is controled by a team of people who suppress free energy and work together maintaining there hey i am a billionaire.
read this from,
http://www.jahtruth.co.uk/illumin.htm#Protocols%20Proof
here is a copy and paste,
this even includes Main stream News.
PROTOCOL 12
CONTROL OF THE PRESS
Masonic "freedom" ? Control of printing and publishing ? Vishnu, idol of the Press
1. The word "freedom," which can be interpreted in various ways, is defined by us as follows -
2. Freedom is the right to do that which the law allows. This interpretation of the word will at the proper time be of service to us, because all freedom will thus be in our hands, since the laws will abolish or create only that which is desirable for us, according to the aforesaid program.
3. We shall deal with the press in the following way: what is the part played by the press to-day? It serves to excite and inflame those passions which are needed for our purpose, or else it serves selfish ends of parties. It is often vapid; unjust; mendacious; and the majority of the public have not the slightest idea what ends the press really serves. We shall saddle and bridle it with a tight curb: we shall do the same also with all productions of the printing press, for where would be the sense of getting rid of the attacks of the press if we remain targets for pamphlets and books? The produce of publicity, which nowadays is a source of heavy expense owing to the necessity of censoring it, will be turned by us into a very lucrative source of income to our State: we shall law on it a special stamp tax and require deposits of caution-money before permitting the establishment of any organ of the press or of printing offices; these will then have to guarantee our government against any kind of attack on the part of the press. For any attempt to attack us, if such still be possible, we shall inflict fines without mercy. Such measures as stamp tax, deposit of caution-money and fines secured by these deposits, will bring in a huge income to the government. It is true that party organs might not spare money for the sake of publicity, but these we shall shut up at the second attack upon us. No one shall with impunity lay a finger on the aureole of our government infallibility. The pretext for stopping any publication will be the alleged plea that it is agitating the public mind without occasion or justification. I beg you to note that among those making attacks upon us will also be organs established by us, but they will attack exclusively points that we have pre-determined to alter.
4. Not a single announcement will reach the public without our control. Even now this is already being attained by us inasmuch as all news items are received by a few agencies, in whose offices they are focused from all parts of the world. These agencies will then be already entirely ours and will give publicity only to what we dictate to them.
5. If already now we have contrived to possess ourselves of the minds of the goy communities to such an extent that they all come near, looking upon the events of the world through the coloured glasses of those spectacles we are setting astride their noses; if already now there is not a single State where there exist for us any barriers to admittance into what goy stupidity calls State secrets: what will our positions be then, when we shall be acknowledged supreme lords of the world in the person of our king of all the world...
6. Let us turn again to the future of the printing press. Every one desirous of being a publisher, librarian, or printer, will be obliged to provide himself with the diploma instituted therefore, which, in case of any fault, will be immediately impounded. With such measures the instrument of thought will become an educative means in the hands of our government, which will no longer allow the mass of the nation to be led astray in by-ways and fantasies about the blessings of progress. Is there any one of us who does not know that these phantom blessings are the direct roads to foolish imaginings, which give birth to anarchical relations of men among themselves and towards authority, because progress, or rather the idea of progress, has introduced the conception of every kind of emancipation, but has failed to establish its limits.?All the so-called liberals are anarchists, if not in fact, at any rate in thought. Every one of them is hunting after phantoms of freedom, and falling exclusively into license, that is, into the anarchy of protest for the sake of protest.?
7. We turn to the periodical press. We shall impose on it, as on all printed matter, stamp taxes per sheet and deposits of caution-money, and books of less than 30 sheets will pay double. We shall reckon them as pamphlets in order, on the one hand, to reduce the number of magazines, which are the worst form of printed poison, and, on the other, in order that this measure may force writers into such lengthy productions that they will be little read, especially as they will be costly. At the same time what we shall publish ourselves to influence mental development; in the direction laid down for our profit; will be cheap and will be read voraciously. The tax will bring vapid literary ambitions within bounds and the liability to penalties will make literary men dependent upon us. And if there should be any found who are desirous of writing against us, they will not find any person eager to print their productions. Before accepting any production for publication the publisher or printer will have to apply to the authorities for permission to do so. Thus we shall know beforehand of all tricks preparing against us and shall nullify them by getting ahead with explanations on the subject treated of.
8. Literature and journalism are two of the most important educative forces, and therefore our government will become proprietor of the majority of the journals. This will neutralise the injurious influence of the privately-owned press and will put us in possession of a tremendous influence upon the public mind....If we give permits for ten journals, we shall ourselves found thirty, and so on in the same proportion. This, however, must in no wise be suspected by the public. For which reason all journals published by us will be of the most opposite, in appearance, tendencies and opinions, thereby creating confidence in us and bringing over to us quite unsuspicious opponents, who will thus fall into our trap and be rendered harmless.
9. In the front rank will stand organs of an official character. They will always stand guard over our interests, and therefore their influence will be comparatively insignificant.
10. In the second rank will be the semi-official organs, whose part it will be to attack the tepid and indifferent.
11. In the third rank we shall set up our own; to all appearance, off position; which, in at least one of its organs, will present what looks like the very antipothesis to us. Our real opponents at heart will accept this simulated opposition as their own and will show us their cards.
12. All our newspapers will be of all possible complexions ? aristocratic, republican, revolutionary, even anarchical ? for so long, of course, as the constitution exists....Like the Indian idol "Vishnu" they will have a hundred hands, and every one of them will have a finger on any one of the public opinions as required. When a pulse quickens these hands will lead opinion in the direction of our aims, for an excited patient loses all power of judgement and easily yields to suggestion. Those fools who will think they are repeating the opinion of a newspaper of their own camp will be repeating our opinion or any opinion that seems desirable for us. In the vain belief that they are following the organ of their party they will, in fact, follow the flag which we hang out for them.
13. In order to direct our newspaper militia in this sense we must take special and minute care in organising this matter. Under the title of central department of the press we shall institute literary gatherings at which our agents will, without attracting attention, issue the orders and watchwords of the day. By discussing and controverting, but always superficially, without touching the essence of the matter, our organs will carry on a sham fight fusillade with the official newspapers solely for the purpose of giving occasion for us to express ourselves more fully than could well be done from the outset in official announcements, whenever, of course, that is to our advantage.
14. These attacks upon us will also serve another purpose, namely, that our subjects will be convinced of the existence of full freedom of speech and so give our agents an occasion to affirm that all organs which oppose us are empty babblers, since they are incapable of finding any substantial objections to our orders.
15. Methods of organisation like these, imperceptible to the public eye but absolutely sure, are the best calculated to succeed in bringing the attention and the confidence of the public to the side of our government. Thanks to such methods we shall be in a position, as from time to time may be required, to excite or to tranquillise the public mind on political questions, to persuade or to confuse, printing now truth, now lies, facts or their contradictions, according as they may be well or ill received, always very cautiously feeling our ground before stepping upon it....We shall have a sure triumph over our opponents; since they will not have at their disposition organs of the press in which they can give full and final expression to their views; owing to the aforesaid methods of dealing with the press. We shall not even need to refute them except very superficially.
16. Trial shots like these, fired by us in the third rank of our press, in case of need, will be energetically refuted by us in our semi-official organs.
17. Even nowadays, already, to take only the French press, there are forms which reveal masonic solidarity in acting on the watchword: all organs of the press are bound together by professional secrecy; like the augurs of old, not one of their numbers will give away the secret of his sources of information, unless it be resolved to make announcement of them. Not one journalist will venture to betray this secret, for not one of them is ever admitted to practice literature unless his whole past has some disgraceful sore or other....These sores would be immediately revealed. So long as they remain the secret of a few, the prestige of the journalist attacks the majority of the country ? the mob follow after him with enthusiasm.
18. Our calculations are especially extended to the provinces. It is indispensable for us to inflame there those hopes and impulses with which we could at any moment fall upon the capital, and we shall represent to the capitals that these expressions are the independent hopes and impulses of the provinces. Naturally, the source of them will be always one and the same ? ours. We require that, until such a time as we are in the plenitude of power, the capitals should find themselves stifled by the provincial opinion of the nations, i.e., of a majority arranged by our agentur. What we need is that; at the psychological moment; the capitals should not be in a position to discuss an accomplished fact for the simple reason, if for no other, that it has been accepted by the public opinion of a majority in the provinces.
19. When we are in the period of the new regime; prior to the transition to that of the assumption of our full sovereignty; we must not admit any revelations by the press of any form of public dishonesty; it is necessary that the new regime should be thought to have so perfectly contented everybody that even criminality has disappeared...Cases of the manifestation of criminality should remain known only to their victims and to chance witnesses ? no more.
i don't know your thoughts about this guy,
but if you understand that free energy has been Largely suppressed by these hardcore satanists, and that they control the main stream news,every bit of the Mainstream News,
i went on his site, where are the facts, even a picture, i don't know what it even looks like , i don't know if he has a machine.
also, No Overunity will GET On the market, and thats also how i predicted, because its them who suppress this technology, they control the markets.
if there did we would not be useing oil, since 1900's.
and this science, in use today, is to Keep people away from Over Unity, IF THEY THINK THAT Is Prepetural MOTION, JUST LOOK AT THE CLOUDS, BAH PREPETURAL Motion, or take a Look at the earths Own ''Cycle'' systems, BAH ''PREPETUAL Motion'' a scientist would say,
energy can not be created nor destoryed.
Bah '' PREPETUAL Motion , guys PREPETUAL Motion!! not allowed, must KILL EVERYONE!''
8-).
when waste occures then its under-unity, so the earths own system is to recycle,recycle,recycle over and over, although it looks the energy is created, but is not.
Quote from: Duranza on September 22, 2006, 02:40:31 PM
It's the piece of metal the Magnets are attached to...
Thx Duranza.
I was looking for a magnetic shield material to try a Steorn/Gary magnetic actuator setup.
The neutral line effect actually seems to work as per patent on the pin test.
I'll tend to agree with the posters on free energy and major concerns be at risk.
There is a simple question that one needs to ask:How much would you invest to make a guaranteed profit of 36 Billion in one year?? How much would you to assure such profit margins year after year.
1 Billion? 16 Billion that would make it 100% return on investment.
Once you answer that simple question (the profit figure is true and documented) all will be clear.
but i don't know for certain if steorn is lieing or hes telling the truth,
Mind you Stanley Myers who had his water car, was on the news.
but he died though.
Quote from: Jowik on September 21, 2006, 09:09:01 AM
As part of our formation of the new association, I have designed a toy that could be used as a proof of concept that relies on a low energy magnetic actuator (LEMA) to demonstrate the energy stored in magnets. I would like to, before I continue, get some more feedback on Steorn's LEMA patent...
As far as I can trace, these are the only patents that they have in thier name:
06-3 30 2006066428
06-4-06 2006035419
and they seem to be a very crude mu-metal flip flop device of the sort
that did not get John Ecklin's ideas going. Maybe Steorn have another
application in the pipeline.
Paul.
It is however, an excellent question, "How DID Steorn get so much mainstream media attention?"
Any thoughts?
Quote from: Paul-R on September 23, 2006, 10:05:14 AM
As far as I can trace, these are the only patents that they have in thier name:
06-3 30 2006066428
06-4-06 2006035419
and they seem to be a very crude mu-metal flip flop device of the sort
that did not get John Ecklin's ideas going. Maybe Steorn have another
application in the pipeline.
Paul.
Hi Paul,
Would you mind checking the patent application numbers you included because they are faulty.
I found out the first number misses a zero after 2006: 20060066428 is the correct number.
But I cannot find any useful wrt your second patent number: 2006035419, in connection with Steorn or any magnetic topics.
rgds
Gyula
Quote from: mikestocks2006 on September 22, 2006, 11:38:38 PM
Quote from: Duranza on September 22, 2006, 02:40:31 PM
It's the piece of metal the Magnets are attached to...
I'll tend to agree with the posters on free energy and major concerns be at risk.
There is a simple question that one needs to ask:
How much would you invest to make a guaranteed profit of 36 Billion in one year?? How much would you to assure such profit margins year after year.
1 Billion? 16 Billion that would make it 100% return on investment.
Once you answer that simple question (the profit figure is true and documented) all will be clear.
So.. how much would one invest to guarantee these huge profits and in this case the status quo, meaning assuring profits by eliminating competition for your product, in this case energy and more specifically fuel, fuel that costs you less than 5$ per barrel to produce but you sell it for 65$ barrel and demand is only going to go up.
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=nation_world&id=4084481
and this is only one of the handful of big ones that control 90% of world oil needs. BP, Chevron, etc have posted similar profits in the dozens of billions.
With that kind of $$$ you are definitely above law, most if not all politicians are in your pocket, and heck if you get caught for doing something "bad" you get away with a slap in the hand (money talks with the best legal team you can buy against gov't employs). Exxon still hasn't paid Alaska for the Valdeze spill, 5 billion judgment against them since the 90's ....Anyway....Just some thoughts on the bigger picture.
Quote from: gyulasun on September 23, 2006, 02:11:31 PM
Quote from: Paul-R on September 23, 2006, 10:05:14 AM
As far as I can trace, these are the only patents that they have in thier name:
06-3 30 2006066428
06-4-06 2006035419
and they seem to be a very crude mu-metal flip flop device of the sort
that did not get John Ecklin's ideas going. Maybe Steorn have another
application in the pipeline.
Paul.
Hi Paul,
Would you mind checking the patent application numbers you included because they are faulty.
I found out the first number misses a zero after 2006: 20060066428 is the correct number.
But I cannot find any useful wrt your second patent number: 2006035419, in connection with Steorn or any magnetic topics.
rgds
Gyula
The second patent is a WO number. Sorry about that:
http://tinyurl.com/qx38z
Paul.
We got a forum down!
:-\
My take on steorn ....
I think steorn is just a set up to distract us from doing the real work.
Its a disinformation game, listen carefully when he states they will provide all their research, he never says he will provide a free energy device. He just says that their research speculates that such a device is possible. So in 12 months when we have all been sitting waiting. who makes money, steorn with their premier video that shows top scientists poo pooing our research, just like the roswell documentaries.
These guys are in the business of making a documentary and selling it to discovery channel for a tidy profit.
Mark my words.
Regards,
Dean McGowan
Validate schmalidate ..!!!!
plug the thing in to a load.. leave it running in a transparent box suspended out of reach with 24 hour camera surveilance monitored online for all to see for 12 months.
Who give a flying shit if some fancy smancy pants scientist approves it or not.
Sorry I just don't buy this song and dance.
Flabberfrustrinated with this all crap.
Pick up tools and back to work fellas !!!
Quote from: lltfdaniel1 on September 22, 2006, 10:38:43 PM
hmm steorn, how did he get on the news, and not ''Steven marks'' or '' Telsa'' or ''Bendi'', if they did please enlighten me...
look at 4,
1. free energy is suppressed to stop energy independance, and to make it harder to resist the new world order.
2. how can Only Steorn be on Main steam news, it is controled by a team of people who suppress free energy and work together maintaining there hey i am a billionaire.
read this from,
http://www.jahtruth.co.uk/illumin.htm#Protocols%20Proof
here is a copy and paste,
this even includes Main stream News.
PROTOCOL 12
CONTROL OF THE PRESS
Masonic "freedom" ? Control of printing and publishing ? Vishnu, idol of the Press
1. The word "freedom," which can be interpreted in various ways, is defined by us as follows -
2. Freedom is the right to do that which the law allows. This interpretation of the word will at the proper time be of service to us, because all freedom will thus be in our hands, since the laws will abolish or create only that which is desirable for us, according to the aforesaid program.
3. We shall deal with the press in the following way: what is the part played by the press to-day? It serves to excite and inflame those passions which are needed for our purpose, or else it serves selfish ends of parties. It is often vapid; unjust; mendacious; and the majority of the public have not the slightest idea what ends the press really serves. We shall saddle and bridle it with a tight curb: we shall do the same also with all productions of the printing press, for where would be the sense of getting rid of the attacks of the press if we remain targets for pamphlets and books? The produce of publicity, which nowadays is a source of heavy expense owing to the necessity of censoring it, will be turned by us into a very lucrative source of income to our State: we shall law on it a special stamp tax and require deposits of caution-money before permitting the establishment of any organ of the press or of printing offices; these will then have to guarantee our government against any kind of attack on the part of the press. For any attempt to attack us, if such still be possible, we shall inflict fines without mercy. Such measures as stamp tax, deposit of caution-money and fines secured by these deposits, will bring in a huge income to the government. It is true that party organs might not spare money for the sake of publicity, but these we shall shut up at the second attack upon us. No one shall with impunity lay a finger on the aureole of our government infallibility. The pretext for stopping any publication will be the alleged plea that it is agitating the public mind without occasion or justification. I beg you to note that among those making attacks upon us will also be organs established by us, but they will attack exclusively points that we have pre-determined to alter.
4. Not a single announcement will reach the public without our control. Even now this is already being attained by us inasmuch as all news items are received by a few agencies, in whose offices they are focused from all parts of the world. These agencies will then be already entirely ours and will give publicity only to what we dictate to them.
5. If already now we have contrived to possess ourselves of the minds of the goy communities to such an extent that they all come near, looking upon the events of the world through the coloured glasses of those spectacles we are setting astride their noses; if already now there is not a single State where there exist for us any barriers to admittance into what goy stupidity calls State secrets: what will our positions be then, when we shall be acknowledged supreme lords of the world in the person of our king of all the world...
6. Let us turn again to the future of the printing press. Every one desirous of being a publisher, librarian, or printer, will be obliged to provide himself with the diploma instituted therefore, which, in case of any fault, will be immediately impounded. With such measures the instrument of thought will become an educative means in the hands of our government, which will no longer allow the mass of the nation to be led astray in by-ways and fantasies about the blessings of progress. Is there any one of us who does not know that these phantom blessings are the direct roads to foolish imaginings, which give birth to anarchical relations of men among themselves and towards authority, because progress, or rather the idea of progress, has introduced the conception of every kind of emancipation, but has failed to establish its limits.?All the so-called liberals are anarchists, if not in fact, at any rate in thought. Every one of them is hunting after phantoms of freedom, and falling exclusively into license, that is, into the anarchy of protest for the sake of protest.?
7. We turn to the periodical press. We shall impose on it, as on all printed matter, stamp taxes per sheet and deposits of caution-money, and books of less than 30 sheets will pay double. We shall reckon them as pamphlets in order, on the one hand, to reduce the number of magazines, which are the worst form of printed poison, and, on the other, in order that this measure may force writers into such lengthy productions that they will be little read, especially as they will be costly. At the same time what we shall publish ourselves to influence mental development; in the direction laid down for our profit; will be cheap and will be read voraciously. The tax will bring vapid literary ambitions within bounds and the liability to penalties will make literary men dependent upon us. And if there should be any found who are desirous of writing against us, they will not find any person eager to print their productions. Before accepting any production for publication the publisher or printer will have to apply to the authorities for permission to do so. Thus we shall know beforehand of all tricks preparing against us and shall nullify them by getting ahead with explanations on the subject treated of.
8. Literature and journalism are two of the most important educative forces, and therefore our government will become proprietor of the majority of the journals. This will neutralise the injurious influence of the privately-owned press and will put us in possession of a tremendous influence upon the public mind....If we give permits for ten journals, we shall ourselves found thirty, and so on in the same proportion. This, however, must in no wise be suspected by the public. For which reason all journals published by us will be of the most opposite, in appearance, tendencies and opinions, thereby creating confidence in us and bringing over to us quite unsuspicious opponents, who will thus fall into our trap and be rendered harmless.
9. In the front rank will stand organs of an official character. They will always stand guard over our interests, and therefore their influence will be comparatively insignificant.
10. In the second rank will be the semi-official organs, whose part it will be to attack the tepid and indifferent.
11. In the third rank we shall set up our own; to all appearance, off position; which, in at least one of its organs, will present what looks like the very antipothesis to us. Our real opponents at heart will accept this simulated opposition as their own and will show us their cards.
12. All our newspapers will be of all possible complexions ? aristocratic, republican, revolutionary, even anarchical ? for so long, of course, as the constitution exists....Like the Indian idol "Vishnu" they will have a hundred hands, and every one of them will have a finger on any one of the public opinions as required. When a pulse quickens these hands will lead opinion in the direction of our aims, for an excited patient loses all power of judgement and easily yields to suggestion. Those fools who will think they are repeating the opinion of a newspaper of their own camp will be repeating our opinion or any opinion that seems desirable for us. In the vain belief that they are following the organ of their party they will, in fact, follow the flag which we hang out for them.
13. In order to direct our newspaper militia in this sense we must take special and minute care in organising this matter. Under the title of central department of the press we shall institute literary gatherings at which our agents will, without attracting attention, issue the orders and watchwords of the day. By discussing and controverting, but always superficially, without touching the essence of the matter, our organs will carry on a sham fight fusillade with the official newspapers solely for the purpose of giving occasion for us to express ourselves more fully than could well be done from the outset in official announcements, whenever, of course, that is to our advantage.
14. These attacks upon us will also serve another purpose, namely, that our subjects will be convinced of the existence of full freedom of speech and so give our agents an occasion to affirm that all organs which oppose us are empty babblers, since they are incapable of finding any substantial objections to our orders.
15. Methods of organisation like these, imperceptible to the public eye but absolutely sure, are the best calculated to succeed in bringing the attention and the confidence of the public to the side of our government. Thanks to such methods we shall be in a position, as from time to time may be required, to excite or to tranquillise the public mind on political questions, to persuade or to confuse, printing now truth, now lies, facts or their contradictions, according as they may be well or ill received, always very cautiously feeling our ground before stepping upon it....We shall have a sure triumph over our opponents; since they will not have at their disposition organs of the press in which they can give full and final expression to their views; owing to the aforesaid methods of dealing with the press. We shall not even need to refute them except very superficially.
16. Trial shots like these, fired by us in the third rank of our press, in case of need, will be energetically refuted by us in our semi-official organs.
17. Even nowadays, already, to take only the French press, there are forms which reveal masonic solidarity in acting on the watchword: all organs of the press are bound together by professional secrecy; like the augurs of old, not one of their numbers will give away the secret of his sources of information, unless it be resolved to make announcement of them. Not one journalist will venture to betray this secret, for not one of them is ever admitted to practice literature unless his whole past has some disgraceful sore or other....These sores would be immediately revealed. So long as they remain the secret of a few, the prestige of the journalist attacks the majority of the country ? the mob follow after him with enthusiasm.
18. Our calculations are especially extended to the provinces. It is indispensable for us to inflame there those hopes and impulses with which we could at any moment fall upon the capital, and we shall represent to the capitals that these expressions are the independent hopes and impulses of the provinces. Naturally, the source of them will be always one and the same ? ours. We require that, until such a time as we are in the plenitude of power, the capitals should find themselves stifled by the provincial opinion of the nations, i.e., of a majority arranged by our agentur. What we need is that; at the psychological moment; the capitals should not be in a position to discuss an accomplished fact for the simple reason, if for no other, that it has been accepted by the public opinion of a majority in the provinces.
19. When we are in the period of the new regime; prior to the transition to that of the assumption of our full sovereignty; we must not admit any revelations by the press of any form of public dishonesty; it is necessary that the new regime should be thought to have so perfectly contented everybody that even criminality has disappeared...Cases of the manifestation of criminality should remain known only to their victims and to chance witnesses ? no more.
This is all ripped off from the protocols of zion, which was anti-semitic fraud written in russia by a fiction writer. It's proven to be a hoax, and it's retarded to believe this crap. By the way, it was originally written about the Jews, not the masons. In the original version, the Jews controlled the Masons.
Go take your medication, and relax. The REAL conspiracies are on coast-to-coast AM(with george noory), everybody knows that.
M-O-O-N, that spells illuminati. Sure does. (obscure)
Just watch ...
Their "research" will be a bunch of articles gathered together from the most notable people such as tesla and will be used to debunk our research and efforts even further into obscurity.
I hope for your own sakes that none of the pioneers amongst us are proferring their own research as proof of concept to aid this sham.
I smell a rat in the steorn cage... !!
I for one am glad to see people are still willing to discuss this topic of "free energy" suppression, regardless if it's an undesirable topic.
Some of posts in this thread really key in just how difficult it is to get a legitimate "free energy" machine in public hands. So we should face it, it has not happened yet. If we are intelligent then we need to analyze why.
There is no coherent logical person who can rightfully deny the specified various legitimate reasons why certain groups would want to suppress this technology. Unfortunately there are legal passive techniques being used right under our own feet to guide people and suppress this technology. It is their goal to suppress as long as possible and surely they are gleaming cheek-to-cheek they have succeed this long.
Here are various reasons preventing legitimate scientists from completion:
1. Greed! Forget about yourself. When you finalize & thoroughly verify the machine then spread it like wild fires, PLEASE!
2. Total control. Long process of patenting, legalities, finding a willing manufacturer, funding, etc.
3. Just carelessly announcing the verified "free energy" machine. You need to either find a guaranteed method of publishing the exact build instructions or find key undisclosed people who will publish everything if something happens to you.
In reference to #3, above, note that in all likelihood any inventor working on a legitimate "free energy" machine is being watched. I have been a software engineer for 28 years, an System Admin since 1997, and understand Internet security. Even so, my machine is hacked at this very moment and has been for some time. Point being, you BETTER be certain that when you publish the exact build instructions of this smoking gun (a first in history) that your information is well received by sufficient people. Don't be afraid of these thugs. Just be smart, lets stop being so self-centered, do the right thing, and help humanity in a huge way.
I hope everyone has thought out just how vitally important "free energy" is for the planet and all life.
Paul Lowrance
Quote from: PaulLowrance on September 27, 2006, 11:53:05 AM
I for one am glad to see people are still willing to discuss this topic of "free energy" suppression, regardless if it's an undesirable topic.
Some of posts in this thread really key in just how difficult it is to get a legitimate "free energy" machine in public hands. So we should face it, it has not happened yet. If we are intelligent then we need to analyze why.
There is no coherent logical person who can rightfully deny the specified various legitimate reasons why certain groups would want to suppress this technology. Unfortunately there are legal passive techniques being used right under our own feet to guide people and suppress this technology. It is their goal to suppress as long as possible and surely they are gleaming cheek-to-cheek they have succeed this long.
Here are various reasons preventing legitimate scientists from completion:
1. Greed! Forget about yourself. When you finalize & thoroughly verify the machine then spread it like wild fires, PLEASE!
2. Total control. Long process of patenting, legalities, finding a willing manufacturer, funding, etc.
3. Just carelessly announcing the verified "free energy" machine. You need to either find a guaranteed method of publishing the exact build instructions or find key undisclosed people who will publish everything if something happens to you.
In reference to #3, above, note that in all likelihood any inventor working on a legitimate "free energy" machine is being watched. I have been a software engineer for 28 years, an System Admin since 1997, and understand Internet security. Even so, my machine is hacked at this very moment and has been for some time. Point being, you BETTER be certain that when you publish the exact build instructions of this smoking gun (a first in history) that your information is well received by sufficient people. Don't be afraid of these thugs. Just be smart, lets stop being so self-centered, do the right thing, and help humanity in a huge way.
I hope everyone has thought out just how vitally important "free energy" is for the planet and all life.
Paul Lowrance
To an extent I have to agree with Paul both in the general picture and specifically about Steorn.
First, there is no ?proof? yet their device works, and on the same token there is not ?proof? that it doesn?t.
Second, how should they go about it? What is the best way?
Let?s focus on the ?proof?. How? Make a product and sell it? Lets? say it costs 25k to build one (just a figure I?m throwing out without basis). Yeah right! Who?s going to buy it? On just their claim.?
Heck they haven?t asked for any money or asked anyone to buy anything, they have put their own money and reputation on line and yet they are still been attacked all over the place. At this point we simply do not know. Let them do their thing and prove it.
All they ask is scientists, engineers, from all over the world test it and publish their results, positive or negative.
Jumping to conclusions and find them guilty of fraud, or believing they have it is at best baseless. The jury is still out so to speak.
People say hook it up to a generator and have it light up a bulb. Sure, how long before another poster claims fraud, (e.g. the generator is really a motor with a small hidden battery?you know the Li button cells can last for years in your watch).
There are so many ways to cheat with today?s technologies. Even an outside the visible spectrum light source, a puff of air, even a magnetic field from coils on the ceiling and floor away from camera?s view can be an outside source, there are very many more ways so I just mentioned few examples.
We can go into wild conspiracy theories too, but so far at least the money trail says they are risking their own capital and time for this. If what they do works, sure there are huge interests at risk. Trillions at stake.
IMO, the fact that their device is all mechanical with no coils or wires required for its operation (according to Steorn) makes it at least interesting and a bit more difficult to cheat and worth the wait for the publishings.
One thing I'm fairly certain of, if and when the results publishings come out AND they support thier initial claims, the reports will be greatly scrutinized to say the least.
As far as free energy suppression:
I suspect that it is more likely a case that nobody has actually made and demonstrated a self running device (that is really useful). (I have not seen one from anyone else so far, not even Steorn, at least not yet). Let alone, a free energy device, which would be a self running device that can produce more energy than it uses to self run.
Do I believe that a self running machine can be made and built? Yes, I do. I am trying to see if it can be done.
Additionally, you can not publish an idea and then patent it. The patent will be rejected on the basis that what you wanted to patent is already public knowledge. That is why inventors don't make their invention public knowledge first. Only under NDA for truly interested parties.
The other route, is to publically publish the idea and try to build and sell the devices yourself. That takes a tremendous amount of start up expense that most inventors don't have, and requires a lot of employee power to construct the devices.
Most inventors desire to opt for the patent and license the idea out to others that are already established as a manufacturer, so they can readily produce the device and pay royalties to the inventor as they sell them. To openly publish an idea brings in nothing for the inventor unless he/she can also build and sell them in mass and afford the tremendous startup costs and employment costs.
Hi Liberty,
Quote from: Libertyyou can not publish an idea and then patent it. The patent will be rejected on the basis that what you wanted to patent is already public knowledge. That is why inventors don't make their invention public knowledge first. Only under NDA for truly interested parties.
The idea is to first get build the machine and verify. It's not about publishing an idea. Rather you want to fully verify that it works then publish, and after that you have one year to patent in the U.S.
I've spoken with dozens of experts in the field of patenting. The
publisher has one year to patent in the U.S. If you are not the publisher than you cannot patent it. You have to appreciably improve or change the design if you wanted to patent another persons published work.
Quote from: LibertyThe other route, is to publically publish the idea and try to build and sell the devices yourself. That takes a tremendous amount of start up expense that most inventors don't have, and requires a lot of employee power to construct the devices.
No offense intended, but I don't see your logic and really think you have it backwards. You can legally publishing for free. Or there are companies that specialize in this and will publish for roughly $150.
As far as cost of building, it depends on the machine. The idea is just to build a working model regardless how ugly it is. You don't need to spend millions on having professionally beautiful molds made, etc. This goal should be about getting the first published smoking gun, which should not cost that much for most magnetic designs.
If by unfortunate chance one's design is costly and they cannot save up enough money in a relatively short period of time then it's difficult to ask for money in this industry that for the most part immediately suspects scams in such cases.
I for example am working on a design that would cost a person less than ~$100 to completely build. Does it have some fancy casing or logs, etc. etc. etc.? No, of course not! I am not in this industry to make a fortune because I have done my research on this industries history ... I know for fact a group is hacking in machine and what they are analyzing!!
Anyone who is in this industry to make a fortune is in for a world of surprise.
Quote from: LibertyMost inventors desire to opt for the patent and license the idea out to others that are already established as a manufacturer, so they can readily produce the device and pay royalties to the inventor as they sell them. To openly publish an idea brings in nothing for the inventor unless he/she can also build and sell them in mass and afford the tremendous startup costs and employment costs.
The concept of global "free energy" is a little bigger than any single person or family. IMHO the focus on the self when given the present condition of this planet and world is nothing short of ignorance and/or selfishness.
I predict the person to succeed will be one who is selflessness, giving to others, and will freely publish the exact build instructions. :)
Paul Lowrance
Hi mikestocks2006,
I agree that we should give Steorn the benefit of the doubt. I recall seeing a picture of their machine or one of them and I believe it had electric motors, which consists of coils and magnetic materials.
We should not get our hopes up on Steorn. We should continue our research. When we get attached to something is when we may be hurt and discouraged. If it is true what a physicist told me that Steorn was started by the group within the science community for the purpose of inflicting damage then we should not allow it to affect us.
Lets all please just continue our research regardless what distractions and noise we hear.
One thing that is very important ->
We should always build a machine when the following conditions are met:
1. The inventor claims it is self-running and runs forever or until the machine breaks.
2. The inventor freely publishes the entire exact build instructions.
3. If you can afford to build the machine.
And I would add that it would help if the inventor sounds very sincere and is not hiding anything. I am not suggesting that we should not build any other devices. Of course we should. I am saying we should always build a machine with the above conditions. It would be a crime if a legitimate inventor publishes the real self-running smoking gun and those with hidden agendas who flood this industry distract us into not building it.
Paul Lowrance
Steorn's FAQ is being posted in their forum: http://www.steorn.net/forum
Cheers,
John
http://association-steorn.orientalfans.com/steorn
Quote from: PaulLowrance on September 27, 2006, 01:41:22 PM
Hi mikestocks2006,
I agree that we should give Steorn the benefit of the doubt. I recall seeing a picture of their machine or one of them and I believe it had electric motors, which consists of coils and magnetic materials.
We should not get our hopes up on Steorn. We should continue our research. When we get attached to something is when we may be hurt and discouraged. If it is true what a physicist told me that Steorn was started by the group within the science community for the purpose of inflicting damage then we should not allow it to affect us.
Lets all please just continue our research regardless what distractions and noise we hear.
One thing that is very important ->
We should always build a machine when the following conditions are met:
1. The inventor claims it is self-running and runs forever or until the machine breaks.
2. The inventor freely publishes the entire exact build instructions.
3. If you can afford to build the machine.
And I would add that it would help if the inventor sounds very sincere and is not hiding anything. I am not suggesting that we should not build any other devices. Of course we should. I am saying we should always build a machine with the above conditions. It would be a crime if a legitimate inventor publishes the real self-running smoking gun and those with hidden agendas who flood this industry distract us into not building it.
Paul Lowrance
I think you were referring to a test setup they had on display. The wires are most likely part of the encoders and torque meters.
I think from their chat Q&A and the video and some of their intitial talk on their site, the actual device is all mechanical.
>>Q: Permanent or electric magnets? Or both?
Sean_McCarthy: Permanent
Q: are you saying that the picture on your site is not the actual device?
Sean_McCarthy: As it says in the name of the file it is a test system. Note the torque sensors and angle transducers.
Q: What is the device we see you kneeling next to in the images available on the website?
Sean_McCarthy: That is a test system
<<
Either way, it seems they are doing it the proper way so far, and they will be publishing the results either good or bad.
The burden of proof is on the "jury" now, for the rest of us we can keep an open and objective mind, until the answers are there.
Thx
Hi mikestocks2006,
I don't see how a 100% mechanical device is going to generate free energy. Thanks for the quotes. I found some more which also indicate magnetic properties are used, which IMHO would favor a legitimate "free energy" machine
Quotes:
Q: Is this technology apart from magnetism incorporates gravity as well?
Sean_McCarthy: No, the technology is based only on magnetic fields
Q: Permanent or electric magnets? Or both?
Sean_McCarthy: Permanent
Paul Lowrance
Quote from: PaulLowrance on September 28, 2006, 05:23:05 PM
Hi mikestocks2006,
I don't see how a 100% mechanical device is going to generate free energy. Thanks for the quotes. I found some more which also indicate magnetic properties are used, which IMHO would favor a legitimate "free energy" machine
Quotes:
Q: Is this technology apart from magnetism incorporates gravity as well?
Sean_McCarthy: No, the technology is based only on magnetic fields
Q: Permanent or electric magnets? Or both?
Sean_McCarthy: Permanent
Paul Lowrance
Based on what we are taught so far and most of what we have experienced, I'd agree that it's tough to accept it, 100% mechanical device generating added energy.
But maybe this is the reason for all this to be happening. An anomaly or an unexplained phenomenon, not previously encountered and/or verified by others. I consider magnetic effects as part of an all mechanical system with no coils or wires involved. They said a certain arrangement of magnets/fields had created some unexplained results....
Steorn also mentioned:
"What I said was that we had never connected the technology to a generator, i.e. we have not set it up to produce electrical power, just mechanical. Some may find this strange but you need to understand that the energy involved is mechanical. As stated the technology does self sustain, and hence output is connected to input"
also
"Sorry that I did not answer all your questions. We have run the system through very long cycle runs, stoping it every 600 cycles to test the magnetic domains (there is no errosion on the magnetic domains). The technology produces mechanical energy, and no we have not hooked it up to a generator, instead we have demonstrated power output by moving weights."
I'm wondering if there are any other Steorn quotes that can clarify this. It seems Steorn was merely talking about the mechanical output. For example, an electrical motor is mechanical output.
If the Steorn machine is not electrical then it could still be MCE (magnetocaloric effect). One thing about MCE is that it does not require electrical current. It merely requires a magnetic field, so a permanent magnet would also work. I think in order to potentially extract MCE energy with just PM's you would have to have fast rotating parts. One of interest that comes to mind is the Searl effect. Anyone remember the Searl disk?
http://www.sisrc.com
I think Steorn seems legitimate so far even though I have this feeling it's a bust cooked up by the science community, which is what a scientist told me. If it's legitimate then yeehaaa! If it's a bust then I for one will not be distracted or disappointed in the very least and I hope everyone here feels the same!!!
Paul Lowrance
This was taken from Steorn's FAQ on the Technical:
As previously stated we continue to file patents on the technology as we find better ways to achieve the same result. As a result we have to be careful about the details that we place in the public domain (as such public comments could be deemed prior art). Hence I will not be in a position to post significant technical details, however there follows an overview:
Core Technology
The core technology is the ability to construct certain magnetic fields (using permanent magnets) that when other magnetic materials travel around a closed trajectory within these fields a non-zero energy sum is achieved (after compensating for friction losses). For a fixed trajectory travel around a closed loop in one direction will gain energy and travel around the loop in the other direction will results in an energy loss.
The trajectories themselves may not be a simple circular loop, they can involve complex paths through the field (depending on the specific construction of the field).
Such a gain in ?mechanical? energy is in itself not a violation of the 1st Law of Thermodynamics since there are other energies involved in the system. However tests have shown that there is no degradation of the magnetic domains as a result of this mechanical energy gain/loss (i.e. the magnets are not being drained of their energy) and there is no change in environmental energy (due to a magneto calorific effect) associated with the mechanical energy gain/loss.
Testing
The core technology is tested in a variety of different ways, including mechanical energy measurement systems (static and dynamic) magnetic field measuring equipment and temperature measurement equipment. We also test by moving weights to demonstrate external work done (over the losses due to friction).
Status of the Technology
The technology is at a prototype stage, i.e. we are not yet at the point of developing commercial products. Both the prototypes and the core technology is under constant development.
I know that the above is a limited amount of information and will cause yet more frustration, however the ultimate answer to the key question will have to be answered by the Jury.
Personally, I am very suspicious of the fact that STEORN has been able to receive so much positive media coverage.
I have seen them on FOX News, and on another important interview on Fox cable with their business guy Neil Cavuto. I've heard from others that STEORN's been featured on CNN, and may shortly be on with Larry King.
The overwhelming majority of those promoting new energy devices face tremendous suppression - STEORN has offered very little to the "skeptic", or to the (normally) hostile media, yet they don't appear to have much opposition.
~ Ek
Thanks for quotes Jowik. Have you seen any of these detailed experiments where they supposedly take these measurements?
Quote from: EkfugoPersonally, I am very suspicious of the fact that STEORN has been able to receive so much positive media coverage.
I have seen them on FOX News, and on another important interview on Fox cable with their business guy Neil Cavuto. I've heard from others that STEORN's been featured on CNN, and may shortly be on with Larry King.
The overwhelming majority of those promoting new energy devices face tremendous suppression - STEORN has offered very little to the "skeptic", or to the (normally) hostile media, yet they don't appear to have much opposition.
I agree it seems suspicious for also other reasons, but we have to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Ekfugo, if Steorn turns out to be a failure, will it somehow discourage you away from the "free energy" community? I really want to know other people's feelings and thoughts on this. It is really concerning there are companies and people making huge claims of success time after time and they simple fade away, never hearing much about them anymore.
What is concerning is the claims without any detailed experiments. If these experiments are available I would like to see them. I cannot imagine in a million years making such a discovery, completing a "free energy" machine, going on national TV shows, etc. and not at least publishing simple experiments where they took detailed energy environment measurements.
Paul Lowrance
Concerning Steorn,
In my opinion, I too find it disturbing that they have not released any test data or output figures whatsoever. For such a claim to be made, and then not give out any data to back it up is highly suspicious to say the least. They should reconsider their secrecy and open up a little more to maintain their integrity. A claim in such a public way should be ready to be backed up with hard data tests, and shouldn't wait for a jury to decide in a month or 10 years. If it's that good, they should be safe in saying so and stand behind their claim with real test data. I doubt that test data reports (even if in error) will impact Intellectual Property.
Does anyone know exactly what Steorn's claims are? Is their machine self-running (closing the loop, recirculating enough energy to run by itself without draining a battery source)?
Paul Lowrance
If STEORN, or anybody else for that matter, (say Lutec or Perendev for example), turn out to be a sham - or a money scam - it WILL NOT deter me, nor my associates.
Of course, it just makes it harder on ALL of us when try to put out a legitamate device in the future.
~ Ek
Come on.. lets stop pandering to these dupe artists, if it really works and the technology is easy to reporduce, who the hell is gonna pay top dollar for it, it will be like napster, the controlling interest will try and close down one company and by the time they do 5 more will be selling the product ad infinitum. Just look at the illegal CD markets across the world or file sharing technology. You cannot patent and control this kind of invention, you are never gonna make a dollar out of such an invention. So i give a big poo poo to all those that think it may evolve any other way.
Unless you could throw a field across the earth that disables all such devices except for a very specific set of resonances that you are the only person can tap. Encoded free energy anyone??? Maybe that is what these turkeys are hoping for. Set up an energy shield and then modulate it with only those with the ability to know where the current accessible frequencys can tap free energy. Then sell the digital set top box to know the access frequency or no energy for you people ... hahahahahahaha .. yah hahahahaha .. evil empire laugh .. etc etc
Or maybe this is a function of HAARP and woodpecker already .. yah haaaaa haaaa gurgle gurgle gurgle .. rrrrrrrr .. evil empire gleeeful cackle ....
As for people "hearing" that Steorn was on CNN I say give me some proof. As to the other media attention they got, thats because they have a great marketing department and they have the balls to stand behind their claims. Why not slap them across the face and see how they react?
Calling out to the scientific community to come and check your device is the most admiral approach I have seen yet and I applaud them, as some of you already know.
As for them going on Larry King I highly doubt it and you are only ASSUMING without factual evidence to support your claim just as much as they are. They have already stated the "interview" stage is over for now.
Peace out. 8)
Quote from: PaulLowrance on October 03, 2006, 02:27:10 PM
Does anyone know exactly what Steorn's claims are? Is their machine self-running (closing the loop, recirculating enough energy to run by itself without draining a battery source)?
Paul Lowrance
Hi Paul,
It seems to me, that Steorn's claim is essentially placing magnets in a very particular arrangement. A magnet, or magnets travel around this constructed field.
There is no shielding used. There's no information on how many levels there are. When the magnet(s) travel from point A to point A in a single direction (let's say clockwise for argument's sake) there is a net gain of energy. When the magnet(s) travel from point A to point A in the opposite direction, there's a net loss. So you could say that due to the arrangement of the magnets in this setup, the "extra" energy is used from what would normally be experienced when moving in the opposite direction. In other words, the constructed magnetic fields allow for an extra push in the intended direction. This is how I perceive they've done it. Apparently, Steorn has run their device at 600k cycles with no known wear to magnetic fields (Sean apparently made a mistake and stated 600 cycles, which he mentioned would regret. So we'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say 600,000 cycles). Once running, it doesn't stop. This is the basic principle discovered three years ago. They have progressed it to the point where they are submitting as many patents as they can on different arrangements as they discover them based on their discovered principle. These patents are not available in the first stage of submission, I'm not a patent lawyer, but these things take time I guess.
I've been racking my brain thinking about how such a particular arrangement can be made and I figure that there's two levels to the whole arrangement, that the fields are constructed in a particular semi spiral pattern (not cone), the other level being the opposite to the other and the two levels of rotating magnets are mechanically arranged to counter rotate.
I hope this helps.
Cheers,
John
Quote from: Jowik on October 04, 2006, 08:53:51 AM
Quote from: PaulLowrance on October 03, 2006, 02:27:10 PM
Does anyone know exactly what Steorn's claims are? Is their machine self-running (closing the loop, recirculating enough energy to run by itself without draining a battery source)?
Paul Lowrance
Hi Paul,
It seems to me, that Steorn's claim is essentially placing magnets in a very particular arrangement. A magnet, or magnets travel around this constructed field. There is no shielding used. There's no information on how many levels there are. When the magnet(s) travel from point A to point A in a single direction (let's say clockwise for argument's sake) there is a net gain of energy. When the magnet(s) travel from point A to point A in the opposite direction, there's a net loss. So you could say that due to the arrangement of the magnets in this setup, the "extra" energy is used from what would normally be experienced when moving in the opposite direction. In other words, the constructed magnetic fields allow for an extra push in the intended direction. This is how I perceive they've done it. Apparently, Steorn has run their device at 600k cycles with no known wear to magnetic fields (Sean apparently made a mistake and stated 600 cycles, which he mentioned would regret. So we'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say 600,000 cycles). Once running, it doesn't stop. This is the basic principle discovered three years ago. They have progressed it to the point where they are submitting as many patents as they can on different arrangements as they discover them based on their discovered principle. These patents are not available in the first stage of submission, I'm not a patent lawyer, but these things take time I guess.
I've been racking my brain thinking about how such a particular arrangement can be made and I figure that there's two levels to the whole arrangement, that the fields are constructed in a particular semi spiral pattern (not cone), the other level being the opposite to the other and the two levels of rotating magnets are mechanically arranged to counter rotate.
I hope this helps.
Cheers,
John
That is interesting Jowik,
But I think from what Steorn was saying, the rotor material is not made up of a magnet. It is made of a magnetic material of some sort. Just wonder if it has any torque to pull anything? In order for it to have much torque, the magnetic material would have to pass close to the spiral magnet arrays that you spoke of. (At least, I would think it would have to travel near the permanent magnetic field for strength).
Quote from: Liberty on October 04, 2006, 09:18:47 AM
That is interesting Jowik,
But I think from what Steorn was saying, the rotor material is not made up of a magnet. It is made of a magnetic material of some sort. Just wonder if it has any torque to pull anything? In order for it to have much torque, the magnetic material would have to pass close to the spiral magnet arrays that you spoke of. (At least, I would think it would have to travel near the permanent magnetic field for strength).
Interesting that you pointed that out.
Another thing they mentioned is that they discovered this while trying to improve wind generators. They, I think, bought one of those micro-generators for CCTV cameras and took it apart. Typical engineers... So, the best place to start is to find what model of micro generator they used and take it apart.
Quote from: Jowik on October 04, 2006, 09:28:14 AM
Quote from: Liberty on October 04, 2006, 09:18:47 AM
That is interesting Jowik,
But I think from what Steorn was saying, the rotor material is not made up of a magnet. It is made of a magnetic material of some sort. Just wonder if it has any torque to pull anything? In order for it to have much torque, the magnetic material would have to pass close to the spiral magnet arrays that you spoke of. (At least, I would think it would have to travel near the permanent magnetic field for strength).
Interesting that you pointed that out.
Another thing they mentioned is that they discovered this while trying to improve wind generators. They, I think, bought one of those micro-generators for CCTV cameras and took it apart. Typical engineers... So, the best place to start is to find what model of micro generator they used and take it apart.
There is a web site that has a picture of a microgenerator and it's flux pattern.
It is: http://www.kinetron.nl (http://www.kinetron.nl)
Thanks for the info Jowik. Wouldn't it be something if the 12 scientists confirm Steorn's claims and cannot find the source of energy?! What a day in science that will be. Not that I'm getting my hopes up mind you, lol. Been there and done that far too many times in this industry.
Liberty,
I didn't know much about microgenerators except they're small, like 10 mm. Nice animation of that fields. One thing that's interesting about magnetic materials is at such scales you don't see a nice continuous field. Rather you see the domains. The domains in some materials can be up to a few mm in size. Essentially, if you have a piece of such material it become a permanent magnet, even if it's just pure iron. I've wondered about this on occasion just because it would be interesting to see the effects of working with a single particle, say 1 mm in size, that is normally not your typical PM, but now it is just because it's small in size.
Who knows, maybe they discovered some quantum effect that becomes evident when the magnetic material is less than one domain.
Paul Lowrance
Quote from: Libertyhttp://www.kinetron.nl (http://www.kinetron.nl)
That microgenerator animation reminds me of Searl generator.
http://www.sisrc.com
http://searleffect.com
Paul Lowrance
I am facinated with Steorn's technology and sincerely hope their technology is legitimate and is quickly commercialized. What I really hope is that at some point they will release enough information about their technology so it can be replicated by amateurs and scientists around the world. One thing Sean has said over and over again is that the technology is VERY SIMPLE. I hope at some point they release more information.
Sean McCarthy, the CEO of Steorn, has said, on the Steorn forum, www.steorn.net, that the OU device they claim to have uses two rotors with permanent magnets on them that are at right-angles to one another.
He also said that there is no fixed magnet.
I know there are a lot of builders here and I was wondering if that is enough of a hint to get any of you thinking about possibilities. I don't think I have seen any attempts here that used that right-angle, two-rotor configuration.
Canam,
I have done a LOT of reading on Steorn's website, their forum, and elsewhere but I do not remember that statement by Sean McCarthy. Could you provide a reference? From what has been said recently it seemed to me their technology was as simple as a rotor with magnets on it and then fixed magnets on the outside creating a magnetic field that the magnets on the rotor move through. Honestly, I am almost certain that I have recently read that it uses fixed magnets. But then again, I could be wrong or they may have made contradictory statements or might have more than one version of their technology.
If you could, please provide a reference.
I really, really hope they start releasing more information soon. I would love to figure out exactly how they are doing what they claim.
Here is a clue to Steorn's technology. At least it tells us how many magnets they are using and a little bit about their positions relative to one another.
http://www.newenergytimes.com/Inthenews/2006Q2-4/Q3/THEHINDU-ScientistsWhoClaimFreeEnergy.htm
"So, as they prepare to demonstrate this wonder of science to me at their modest offices in Dublin near the Liffey, I feel all the excitement of Christmas Day. There is a test rig with wheels and cogs and four magnets meticulously aligned so as to create the maximum tension between their fields and one other magnet fixed to a point opposite. A motor rotates the wheel bearing the magnets and a computer takes 28,000 measurements a second. The magnets, naturally, act upon one another. And when it is all over, the computer tells us that almost three times the amount of energy has come out of the system as went in. In fact, this piece of equipment is 285% efficient."
The important information from that is basically there are four magnets on the rotor and one magnet on the stator. Also, it tells us that the individual are stationary and in place (not being moved aroud mechanically at key moments). Of course from what Sean has said in the past this last part was to be expected.
Hey, it's a little more information! We now know at least one version of their technology uses for stator magnets and one rotor magnet.
Also, we must remember that Steorn has various versions of their technology. I'm sure some use different magnet configurations. But at least we know that one of them has four magnets on a rotor/wheel and one magnet mounted outside of the wheel as the stator. Perhaps we could go from that and try to figure out at least that *one* example of their technology?
It looks like we might fairly soon have enough data to try and replicate the Steorn device. The following is from Sean McCarthy on the Steorn forum. He is responding to a post I made asking him (if it is safe for his company to do so) release enough information to allow for people to attempt replicating the most basic version of his technology.
Hi Bobcat,
This is section II of the movie - device testing. I expect no one to believe what they see posted, once it is complete I expect to hear that the data is fixed. Anyway it is the role of the Jury to determine if our claims are true. Until this time we listen to the cries with amusement.
Thanks,
Sean
Well, my gut tells me its a scam. I hope I'm wrong. I thought I was really close to creating a OU device of my own lately and I made enough connections and plans to have the product up and running in a matter of months. If you have a product that works there is NO need to prove anything to anyone! If you can make cheaper power you will find yourself turning money away. There is just a lot of drama going on with that company that "absolutely" doesn't need to happen. If they do have something that works then they are the the stupidest business managers on the Earth! But good luck to them!
Tim
Tend to agree with you there Tim.
I have spent the last week following and contributing to the forums over there and it interesting to see Sean from Steorn pop in and throw teasers at people. I see significant answers to these teasers getting posted by people back to him, yet he ignores them and goes for the easy target as such.
Like you say if you have a product, then smack to into production. I have sat in a few Investor meetings back in the .com days and they were pretty easy to reel in then.
Show them something like Steorn are claiming and I am sure money will flow from interested hands very quickly.
Be really nice if this was a true product and they are just going for a different angle, but best not to expect too much at this stage.
Regards
Sean.
I think Steorn may have it - But I think they are throwing everyone of the trail. I heard a telephone interview with Sean where he said it is self running and they are using a ferous metal to travel around a magnet array.
For what its worth.
The website posted for him hasn't been updated since 2003. Strange that he would leave a website up so long that hasn't been updated, so I decided to do a search. Sure enough, he has been busy and has another website.
Oddly enough, he's still promoting his generator as working, but like so many others, it's not in production. If the experts spend their time debating his invention, then it's not working as he claims.
I found it amusing that in Washington DC there was a convention featuring his device, and he chose not to attend on the grounds that he needed 10 hours to present his materials. Talk about a lame excuse. Sounds just like the company in Germany that couldn't seem to show up because of the summer Olympics.
Even Magnetic Power Inc. has been silent since Aug of 2006. There was no response when I wrote the President asking why he hasn't updated his website.
So there you have it. Silence is golden and the inventors, or should I say promotors, are hiding.
Hi Guys,
I am directing my future PMM experiments towards SPIRAL type motors (Steven Marks , Sprain etc ) . I was intrigued to notice the frequent use of images of spirals on the Steorn web page layout ( the background photos on most of thier web subpages even in thier Logo .. the letter O in steorn is drawn as a spiral) I can't seem to search the forums on the Steorn website , to see if this has been discussed, and there are far too many messages now for me to read them all.
Does anyone remember seeing any mention of Steorn and spirals in any of the Steron forums or anywhere else for that matter? I am hopeing for some link to their actual patent and it use for overcomeing the sticky point in a spiral type motor.
Cheers
Tony.
Quote from: tonyc on January 27, 2007, 05:09:08 AM
Hi Guys,
I am directing my future PMM experiments towards SPIRAL type motors (Steven Marks , Sprain etc ) . I was intrigued to notice the frequent use of images of spirals on the Steorn web page layout ( the background photos on most of thier web subpages even in thier Logo .. the letter O in steorn is drawn as a spiral) I can't seem to search the forums on the Steorn website , to see if this has been discussed, and there are far too many messages now for me to read them all.
Does anyone remember seeing any mention of Steorn and spirals in any of the Steron forums or anywhere else for that matter? I am hopeing for some link to their actual patent and it use for overcomeing the sticky point in a spiral type motor.
Cheers
Tony.
For some reason this seems very close to what I imagine the orbo doing.
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=volypok
Any thoughts?