This is a build that I've been working towards for over two years. When I started building batteries I knew about the Karpen pile which has been give the nickname "perpetual battery" and I've created just that.
The theory is simple "two dissimilar metals merged in a nonreactive electrolyte will stay on forever"
I came to that theory from learning about the original Karpen but there was one draw back, it was built out of platinum and gold. But because of its building materials the electrolyte had a wide range of acids and compounds. That made it easy for mr. Karpen to make his battery however very hard for you and me.
So after many experiments and long test periods I've made what I call the poor man's karpen. It has very low current but does use some galvanic similarities when it comes to voltage. It also does exhibit the gain in current when it is switched on and off like the original and also as you increase the surface area the current does increase as well.
This is the link to my video thesis
https://youtu.be/9xV9dZeaRcs
And I've take a lot of care to make it entertaining so you'll like watching
I would also like to state that I am in the process of make a scaled up version to make a usable light or power source
This definitely is a overunity battery
All the best
jon
4EvR perpetual
Very useful, thanks for sharing!
A tutorial as PDF would also be handy.
BR
thanks for the suggestion and i will work on that for my next design. but if anyone would like to make one in the mean time they are more then welcome too
all the best
jon
My knowledge of batteries is a bit lacking but how does this differ from a regular galvanic battery? And what is the electrolyte you used on this? Appreciate your answer.
a standard battery uses the negative ions created by the corrosion reaction of the electrolyte and the lesser metal, the Karpen battery has no corrosion by chemical definition to the two different metals. because the original used platinum and gold he was able to use very aciline acids for my battery i do use a non conventional electricity but im going to keep that under my hat till i release the bigger version which is almost done
and i am very sorry for not telling you now but you can use regular tap water to get close to the same effect in the time being
im just worried someone will bet me to the punch . ive worked to hard at this to not get the right credit for it but if i can get the right people to see this and comment to assure my credit ill make it clear
again my apologies but you have to understand
I thought it's a dry cell, and wouldn't simple nitrogen from air act as an acid in a galvanic process?
However, I would like to do some experiments with gold leafes that I got, 23.99 carat, if it' s only the anode that corrodes, what would you try as the other element?
I have no access to magnesium ribbons, but I got pure graphite, could that work, gold+graphite?
BTW do you have a link to that potential table you showed? Thanks.
BR
BTW2. Nothings wrong with a patent if you really got a good, new battery.
I'm bandwidth limited so could only watch a little of the video. I saw a magnesium strip and a nickel strip, what are you claiming exactly, is it power without corrosion?
That's exactly why I state my battery as two dissimilar metals in a non-reactive electrolyte because it will work with any two.
I wouldn't use the gold but I would use the carbon and if you don't have ribbon the next step up is zinc or or aluminum the hardest part is finding a non-reactive electrolyte. The simplest one to use is tap water not distilled because distilled will leach the minerals it need to equalize its ph
plus carbon is higher on the chart then gold
To find the chart simply Google Galvanic scale and you'll see the same or similar charts I use in my video.
If you're good with balancing chemical equations you can try different electrolyte reaction till you find one that won't balance or form a new compound and then it will make exactly what I've made
And fyi carbon and magnesium will be my final design because carbon is cheap and magnesium has the highest potential.
Yes pomodoro, I think it's power comes from atomic spin or movement. But I can't be sure. And because the electrolyte is a molecular reaction which I'm claiming is part of a different system then an atomic system technically I'm not violating the laws of physics
I should point out that at this point with atomic systems and molecular systems I'm referencing Nassim Haramein work on the holographic universe
Good thread. I like it. I can add, though you should not be surprised that ordinary zinc-carbon battery can be recharged but of course the internal construction is to cause a leak if you try to do it. It is perfectly possible to produce rechargeable zinc-carbon batteries and the patent for it is very old. :P
you're spot on forest, there are very few patents to be had in the battery category and im not holding out for a patent. to be honest i dont think i would be awarded one but its the credit im looking for and there are people that have helped me in the last two years that deserve some of it. like "Profitis", a user on here and "andy shell" another user on here and youtube even "robert murray-smith" validated my experiment before i made it public basicly im waiting for the administrator to see this thread so he will know exactly the story
the main stream communities are not what im worried about, i know this will have to be force feed to them. actually a few already were trolling under my video yesterday and i had to remove their comments because they were so rude.
i just want the story to be right im not looking for money because to be honest i will at some point stop paying my electric bill and that is more then enough payment for me plus im smart enough to build what im claiming to have, i think i can figure out how to make a living with other means
@John (the new Karpen):
It looks like you are an actor and video producer. Besides that one can not gather any useful information from your video and from your posts. Unless one knows the electrolyte, nothing can be said, learned or discussed.
I understand that you want to keep it secret, but why making wind, if it should be a secret?
So, you want to be funded? Fine, go to people who have money to spend, but why here?
I have a secret, but I will not tell. Fine, not funny, rather boring.
Greetings, Conrad
I know God forbid I'm good at producing a video and it's not a secret but you my friend are what is called a troll or a moron
Quote from: jonfrommanahawkin1 on January 30, 2015, 03:11:17 PM
I know God forbid I'm good at producing a video and it's not a secret but you my friend are what is called a troll or a moron
What sort of claim are you making? How can anyone know or judge what is going on in your cell without knowing the electrolyte?
You say it is a Karpen-type chemical reaction. How can you possibly know, nobody understands the electro chemistry of a Karpen pile. Have you cracked that mystery as well?
What do you expect from the reader? Should one take your word for it?
Come on, because you say so, one should believe that you not only have understood what is going on electro chemically in a Karpen pile, but you also managed to replicate it with different metals and a different electrolyte?Would you believe that if I wrote it? (My credentials are at least as good as yours.)
I suggest you disclose details. Otherwise any discussion is as meaningless as your last post. Why the aggression?
Greetings, Conrad
@jon:
Thanks for sharing some of your research info here. I sincerely hope things work out for you and that you will be able to successfully bring something "to market".
Do you plan to share more info here at OU ?? Just wondering what to expect . . . .
truesearch
p.s. you will have to get used to some of the "noisy" members on this forum.
This is exactly why I hate posting stuff on this site and others like it
Use water regular tap water or must I repost the first five replies
GD
Let me guess before you even try the experiment you'll have something to say about how it's not possible
I will make it very clear as soon a Stefan sees this
He has the biggest voice to make something this important heard
Just be patient
it's working hours in his time zone right now
But my plan isn't to take anything to market but to show everyone how they can make one themselves and not just a small one but a big usable unit
I'm doing that this way because people like that "noise member" are the type to take an idea and ruin it for everyone, trust me it will be worth it and their is nothing hard or special ever one can do it in the living room. And the electrolyte is as simple as tap water
I'm a firm believer that if you give a man a fish he will eat for a day but if you teach him to fish he'll eat for a lifetime
All the best
jon
@jon:
Thanks again for the way you are sharing and handling this situation :) I respect you.
QuoteLet me guess before you even try the experiment you'll have something to say about how it's not possible
Nope, I'm not saying anything until I can prove it by experimenting.
Again, wishing you the best.
truesearch
Truesearch I don't want you to think that was directed at you in anyway. Server lag placed it after your post . I will have the debate or conversation with anyone at anytime about the validity of my claims. Hell i prefer it. However I will not have the degrading no you can't yes you can argument. And that argument is what stops many of the ideas and builds on this forum from making the main stream science community
Jon
Magnesium and carbon (or copper and aluminium or steel) in tap water will give some Voltage (depending on the metals) and some µA of current (diminishing in a few seconds). This happens because there are little amounts of different salts and other pollutants in tap water. One can increase the electricity output by adding table salt to the tap water. For this reason it works rather well with sea water (several mA can be achieved).
So I do not understand what the experiment you propose (two different metals or a metal and carbon as the other electrode in tap water) can show. The result is well known.
The only interesting part would be a special electrolyte which does not consume one metal (and depositing it onto the other) but still gives electricity.
I can understand that you would want to keep such an electrolyte secret, but I do not understand what the experiment with tap water would have to do with it, since the reaction in tap water (because of little amounts of salts in it) is well known.
Greetings, Conrad
Quote from: jonfrommanahawkin1 on January 30, 2015, 04:23:46 PM
But my plan isn't to take anything to market but to show everyone how they can make one themselves and not just a small one but a big usable unit
I'm doing that this way because people like that "noise member" are the type to take an idea and ruin it for everyone, trust me it will be worth it and their is nothing hard or special ever one can do it in the living room. And the electrolyte is as simple as tap water
I'm a firm believer that if you give a man a fish he will eat for a day but if you teach him to fish he'll eat for a lifetime
So, you do not want to keep it secret after all?
How can anybody "ruin it for everyone" if you make a clear disclosure?
You say, it is nothing hard or special. So where is the problem? You could say the big news in a few sentences or a list of ingredients (may be even a recipe).
We need only one electrolyte. Tell the one first and then you teach how to find others. This would make it much simpler. And it also would make it instantly clear whether you have something worth while to say.
Please, make it short, the world is teaming with teachers who have nothing to teach besides their strange personality, which is rarely valuable.
Greetings, Conrad
Jon
Perhaps you over estimate Stefan's diligence here,unless you Went out of your way to reach him and notify Him ??
I truly hope you are correct and respect you for sharing. I recognize one name you mentioned, profitis and he has been talking for quite some time about something similar?
if you feel you would like to get more open source exposure we do have owners of other forums that can be contacted for this?? I absolutely guarantee no Businessmen.
let me Know
respectfully
Chetkremens@Gmail.com
Quote from: jonfrommanahawkin1 on January 30, 2015, 05:27:23 PM
Truesearch I don't want you to think that was directed at you in anyway. Server lag placed it after your post . I will have the debate or conversation with anyone at anytime about the validity of my claims. Hell i prefer it. However I will not have the degrading no you can't yes you can argument. And that argument is what stops many of the ideas and builds on this forum from making the main stream science community
Jon
Sorry, you are wrong about that statement. What stops "many" of the ideas and builds on this forum from "making the mainstream science community" is that the claims made for them are simply wrong and they simply do not work as presented.
There is _no way_ that an argument on an obscure, niche-level internet forum can possibly affect the validity or development of a device that actually works as claimed!
forget i even said anything now trolls wait
Ok trolls, and the other fine people of this forum I've now gotten ahold of ever one I needed to
The electrolyte is borax in solution of tap water (room temperature)
Borax will dissolve into water per liter till saturated so if you continue to add borax till the water will no longer except any more borax, your mixture is right
I'll do a video on it at some point in the future
But the thing to remember is that not even metal will react the same so you can also use lye which will give you higher current but lower voltage
But you can't use lye and aluminum for obvious reasons that's why I say it's "two dissimilar metals in a non-reactive electrolyte"
I'll help anyone as best as I can to build the unit in the video but I will be making a much larger unit to actually do some usable work
My final design will be carbon and mg to have the cheapest cost but the best potential output
Also to i should point out the original Karpen was .5 v and almost no micro amps and this design does just better then that but the energy will alway be there.
Think in terms of a car battery sized unit to run a light bulb but the physics say it's the same as the original.
And finally I probably won't get a patient because it probably will be considered the same by patent law
All the best
jon
P.s. try and be kind, I've worked very hard at this and I'm not asking directly for anything
Profitis waits patiently in the shadows of the jungle, ready to unleash his fury... Awfully quiet there old man...
I just got done talking with him
Quote from: jonfrommanahawkin1 on January 31, 2015, 03:31:44 AM
I just got done talking with him
And he did not think that it's a Voltaic Pile with Mg instead of Zn?
Quote from: jonfrommanahawkin1 on January 31, 2015, 03:26:27 AM
Also to i should point out the original Karpen was .5 v and almost no micro amps and this design does just better then that but the energy will alway be there.
Think in terms of a car battery sized unit to run a light bulb but the physics say it's the same as the original.
And finally I probably won't get a patient because it probably will be considered the same by patent law
All the best
jon
P.s. try and be kind, I've worked very hard at this and I'm not asking directly for anything
Well, using carbon and magnesium electrodes in my earth battery, I can fully charge a 650 F 2.7 volt boostcap. (See my Youtube videos) I can run an electric motor (Bedini) 400 leds, or light a 48" floro tube. (with the aid of a JT circuit)
No electrolyte except the earth. This all was a result of the research we did in the Nathan Stubblefield topic here on this site.
I do agree that magnesium and carbon are the easiest to obtain that offer the best differential on the galvanic scale. However...I got much better results than that by inserting the electrodes into the earth.
Bill
Ok bill,
now before I start this explanation I'd like to ask a few questions :
Did you find any extra power from ambient earth fields?
Was there any problems making a series circuits?
How much magnesium did you use?
how long does the power stay on?
Now from what I know about batteries even though I've never made an earth battery to me they seem to be a standard electrolyte or crystal battery. That being said there isn't one answer to overunity. This is just the one I'm presenting today.
The reason I can say it's overunity in my experiment is because I only use .08 g of magnesium and then profitis was kind enough to run the calculations to find the unity Energy out put date.
Because also I have a aluminum"air cell" that has been running since September but I won't call it overunity.
And I'm not going to say that this Karpen is the cure all battery, but we all know what happened to the original Karpen.
All the best
jon
So just to clear this up, Ni and Mg electrodes in a borax solution. The electrodes don't react or react very slowly for the output power. Is this correct?
Simply , yes
The corrosion will always naturally occur on the lesser of the two metals so because of the use of magnesium borax was my choice. If you don't have nickel, stainless steel will work or copper, with borax
It's the more reactive metal that you need to design the electrolyte around.
One of the discriptions of the second law describes corrosion of the less noble of two metals, and basically says corrosion will take the path of least resistance, like electricity or water,
A real world example of this is boat anodes and why they are installed on the hull of ships,
Example, salt water ships have zinc anodes installed so that the zinc will corrode before the steel bolts
I live by the shore so it's more visual for me but that is an example of the second law
Jon
The 80mg of Magnesium "consumption" you mention, does this refer to the lost weight of the magnesium electrode after a given time? Can you elaborate more on this please.
I'm also curious as how its workings differ from this setup: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWEXNjFJNmI
The link you mentioned is a standard corrosion battery and the magnesium will deplete over time and quickly in salt water. The magnesium reaction with salt water forms h2, that bond reaction creates negative ions and powers the motor. That's the most basic battery.
The magnesium weight from start is .08 grams or 8 milli grams. Not 80 that would greatly change the calculations for unity .
The Karpen works with a very different principal.
I can't be sure at this point but from what I know it will stay on because the atom is on a different scale then the molecular scale where the standard battery pulls the negative ions from and because the electrolyte cant brake the molecular bonds to gain ions for power, I postulate that the spin of the atoms are moving the electrons creating current and because the two metals have different atom values (electron numbers and proton count) their is a constant differential giving the electrons direction
Simply : the power is from atomic spin that can't stop because the electrolyte cant brake the molecular bonds
Jon
I should point out scale is a dimensional barrier described by string theory and Nassim Haramein in his holographic universe theory
"The magnesium weight from start is .08 grams or 8 milli grams." no, 8 mg= 0.008 g.
0.08 g = 80 mg.
I've just replicated the battery, using what I had in the shed. Copper wire instead of Ni. Pics show the construction of the 3 cells. Hot glue is used to separate Mg/Cu at the ends. A small clump of borax was used in 100mL de-ionized water.
Bubbles on both electrodes form, more on the copper than the Mg. Voltage is 2.00V open circuit. Shorted current is 5mA. I'm keeping it shorted to see if Mg corrodes.
Quote from: jonfrommanahawkin1 on January 31, 2015, 11:38:04 AM
I live by the shore so it's more visual for me but that is an example of the second law
Jon
Jersey?
Bill
In another experiment a warm borax solution is chewing away nicely at the Magnesium. PH is too high. Are you sure you used borax?
A little bubbles isn't uncommon but it should stop but you shouldnt use any special water.
tap water
if the water doesn't have the right balance it will try to leach minerals from the anodes. That's what the bubbles are and a block in your mix is bad as well
Take room temperature water and mix in borax as a powder till the water won't except it anymore and it becomes cloudy and you see a pile of borax form at the bottom.
like your making chocolate milk and you want it very rich
but that current is way to high that water is way to acidic
And yes jersey
All the best
jon
I'm uploading a video now to help. It won't stay up forever but it will till I can do a proper video
Pomodoro, you do realize that what you did is the exact opposite of what I've been telling everyone. Deionized water has the minerals removed. Not to mention, if you have water that has borax in it that eats up magnesium I highly recommend not consuming it at any level.
so I'm thinking you're deliberately trying to fail the experiment. But I'll test my water to be sure and so everyone can have the right readings they need .
And I would also like to point out that I'm already getting positive feedback from others that refused to comment because of trolls like you
Jon
And also you don't know how to messure a battery, the voltage isn't a short and either is an amperage reading, open a automotive service guide and read the batter test.
the total voltage on theterminals will help you determine if one of the cells in the battery is bad. taking an amperage reading across the terminals will tell you if the battery has cold cranking amperage to help determine if the battery needs recharging, a load test will also help before and after recharge. Then if you put your meter in series (that's where you use the positive and the negative of the meter to complete the circuit with the car) and find a reading then you can determine if a car has a parasitic draw (what circuit is still on in the car)
But you should know that right? You're not building a circuit board, it's a battery the readings tell you different things about what you're doing.
Jon
Pomodoro, are you sure that's even borax, it looks home made. Did you do the crystal growth right? Or did you contaminate it when you changed its container?
Jon
Pomodoro, are you sure you know what the second law is?
Pomodoro, you do realize it's not the dimensions of you materials needed to tell where and when you've reached overunity right?
You need the weigh.
Jon
Pomodoro,
Uncut poor man's karpen electrolyte: http://youtu.be/u0x-SUa8Qxs
Don't mess it up this time here is the video
Jon
Quote from: jonfrommanahawkin1 on February 01, 2015, 03:47:46 AM
Pomodoro, are you sure you know what the second law is?
Negative enthalpy for the reaction, although in this case its not correct, a negative Gibbs free energy is more correct.
For a reaction that obeys the law, positive if against.
Do you agree?
pomodoro pick up a physics book
Quote from: jonfrommanahawkin1 on February 01, 2015, 01:50:03 AM
And yes jersey
All the best
jon
Cool. I was born and raised in NJ. In the summers, I would hang out at my Grandmother's house in Normandy Beach. The beach is the only thing I miss about Jersey, ha ha.
Bill
Yeah bill, lol
I was born and raised here and if the politicians would stop being so corrupt it would be a wonderful place to live. But it's my home and I'm going to stay as long as I can.
Jon
Quote from: jonfrommanahawkin1 on February 01, 2015, 10:10:39 AM
pomodoro pick up a physics book
Not sure what your problem is john, you've done a good video and I've tried replicating the cell. I was quite enthusiastic about your post. I made one, It gives a voltage and a current and all I reported were my findings. The Magnesium does initially corrode in borax but yes, as you said it stops as it forms a protective coating. Bubbles on the copper do form, that's water being reduced, nothing abnormal in a battery. If you wrap yours up you are not able to see these.
I would honesty avoid mud slinging, it will wreck the thread instantly. Keep up the good work, and any others with successful replications should give you support instead of hiding. I don't know as if you made a Karpen or a normal cell, but relax, if it works as a Karpen, no one on here will shoot you down. Profitis should be able to give you some great advice.
pomodoro, for good reason i'm sceptical about your testing ability because like profitis, when i told him how to replicate my experiment both you and him didn't follow the guide lines of how i said to conduct the experiment. so for that i don't approve your testing plus i think you should think harder about how your posts are going to be perceived by readers
i tried to post photos of a larger battery that has already been running since december but do to serve lag i don't think it will be posted.
and like you say and why i say "I don't seek approval"
because it is what i say it is no matter how hard anyone tries it still works. Verifying an experiment consists of duplicating it to the specifications laid out by the experimenter not creating your own
thats why i don't approve of your testing
all the best
jon
p.s. if you were so excited about this post then why did you do the experiment any other way then how i said to do it?
Well you asked why, so here is the answer.
I did not use tap water, because no one has the same tap water.Mine could be full of magnesium, calcium, bicarbonates, carbonates,salt, the list continues. Yours might have sea monkeys for all we know. On the other hand, everyone in the world has the same deionized water.
Secondly, the corrosive/ leaching power of di water disapears when a salt is added - borax is a salt.
You used tape around the electrodes, glue, paper,dye,starch, secret Chinese ingredients, who knows what's in there. I simply kept the electrodes separated with a hydrophobic glue, unlikely to dissolve in water, later I removed it just to be sure.
My borax is AR grade. I took it home to kill ants, hence the container. Is your AR grade or the cheaper and nastier grade?
Did you know borax is used as a pH standard. pH 9, yes alkaline, in a dilute concentration. Your saturated solution will be higher.
So instead of embarrassing you, I was doing a more accurate replication without the sea monkeys and secret herbs. I questioned you about the borax because you did not mention that the magnesium initially corroded in it in the video.
So that's why I did it differently, but let it be known, that all replicators should do it as you say, you are correct 100%.
well ill try and mention the sea monkeys next time, oh masterful one, but still coming out within the first hours exclaiming your "magnesium is corroding your magnesium is corroding" like Paul Revere warning the colonialists of a British invasion is like screaming fire in a crowded room
not to mention any verification of overunity in a battery design cant be proven so quickly
so therefor you're a troll as far as i can see and i will continue to hold you in the lowest regards till i see other wise not to mention, i don't even think you know why this has the potential to stay on for an undefined time.
Jon
Hell, even better, can you describe how it doesn't technically brake any laws of physics?
John, how about we give it time and see how the others go. You may have found some new karpen. I have not said it doesn't work, I just told the truth regarding my very early observations with the way I did it. I've done lots more since Did it work in the end, well I'm keeping that to myself.
why keep it to yourself why not hold yourself to the same standard you tolls kept me too. come on its only scientific?
if you will just calm down you'll see in time that this is one of many answers, to a energy problem for every third world place you know of. the tape is only a separator and the point is to teach everyone how to use the materials that are available to make this kind of an energy source. not some laboratory grade only materials that will be even more difficult to obtain then jersey water. hell water from your town well would be exceptionable.
and ill say it again i don't need you to validate my claims that has already been done, you need to realize the device you saw in the video was just one. and the one i used to calculate overunity. and i clearly say that there is more to come
be patient i would hate for someone to waste the little money they have on a big power source that doesn't pass the test of time
that's why i only released the small unit that i know can prove overunity
so please wait at least a day before you going to post something but before you try and say it doesn't work maybe try and think of why your observing what you see and you'll get a much better response from me
this isn't something i did last week i have months of testing into it
all the best
Jon
Thanks for uploading the video!
BTW. nice channel, but get rid of the cigs. :) I used to smoke for 20 years, then gave it up, no big deal. ok, </offtopic>
Other than a redox reaction, as in the voltaic cell, there is also the "concentration cell", using similar metals, but differing electrolyte conditions. Or, similar elements, but disimilar molecules. And of course extremly reduced corrosion by an almost dry separator, where the small current is compensated by the amount of layers in the pile, like in the zamboni dry pile, or that of Du Luc. But of course, one like yours is more interesting, no need for 2000 cells...
Looking forward to seeing how your test cell performs in the not so near furure...
BR
BTW. for those who cannot buy magnesium ribbons: a source for Magnesium is Pencil sharpeners, those metal blocks, they usually got an embossing saying "MAGNESIUM". You can cut them in slices with a saw.
Take care with the filings, fine magnesium powder can spontanously selfignite, and once burning (at >2000C°) it cannot be extinguished by water.
.
Thank you dieter for the comments about the channel I've worked very hard at making it what it is today. as for the cigs I've tried quieting many times but always seem to fall back on them like a crutch.
as for the channel, my plan is to make it so entertaining that people are tricked into learning something useful.
but the unit i built in the first video, today is almost a month old (because of editing and shooting time delays) and seems just as strong today as the first day i turned it on. but i do appreciate you and anyone who has even cheaper sources or more available sources of materials for any readers to utilize.
i would also like to let you and everyone know that i'm working on the last few cells i need to make a larger unit for a light source that ill be releasing in the next few weeks but it will probably take a week or two to edit it properly
thanks again
Jon
I wanted to post an update about what's to come and to say thanks to everyone sending support my way. So thank you very much I appreciate it.
Video link :
Karpen Update: Vlog: http://youtu.be/WRIp4XZbJzk
All the best
Jon
Good work so far jonfrommanahawkin1
My feeling is that these self charging batteries are being overlooked by science,
apparently to pad the pockets of drycell battery companies. It's as if you only scratch
the surface of the area described in the textbooks and you begin seeing some
completely bizarre landscape. They will say that it's "only 1 or 2ma.". But it's still early
days of research yet! Who knows what researchers such as yourself will eventually
discover. It makes me feel bad for the past when people used dry batteries to power
tube type radios or chemist researchers for battery companies when they are forced
to overlook promising scientific paths so they can receive a paycheck based, only in
"existing science".
:S:MarkSCoffman
thank you mark,
im not one to subscribe to theories about money and aspects to suppress this kind of work because in the early days of my research i found it logical to seek a path of more and more power so i think that may be a logical course to follow however i do and will always keep an open mind about any and all non-conventional ideas because up to this date i have yet to have men in black suits come knocking at my door but this is still very early in my release of my discovery. but like all batteries the more surface area the more current one can produce and that's what I'm working on now.
because of the way that the battery works total mass means little but the squire footage makes a big difference. i can see that in the future a device that will run a house could be the size of a closet but would only need to be refilled from time to time with the electrolyte or just water because the borax doesn't evaporate out of the solution
but on the topic of why this is only coming out now, from what i can tell from the troll is, because of the trolls. you can see this on many posts here and just look on any video on youtube that speaks about this and other topics. people feel they can say whatever they like with no justification, kindness, or just plain understanding or the attempt to do so. think of it like this, ive never met you or know who you are so usually there should be exchanges of simpletrys first like hello my name is, ive worked on...., or even " i do disagree and here is why "
the comments i see would never happen when standing face to face or in a scientific conference. comments and replies as such are very discouraging to inventors, because after all the work and research to develop the devices you and others see, now they need to fight off attacks when some simple experiments can prove what there claims are or just simply listening to what they are saying and not putting words in there mouth.
thats why i think its been this long to see this work running because the fight just isnt worth it because i know it works. so i and other inventors don't need to share anything, our work is done
i appreciate the kind words
all the best
jon
Hi Jon,
thanks for the update... Happy birthday! :)
Mg oxide layer as a semiconductor? interesting.
BR
dieter,
i'm not a chemist to know for sure but once the layer from the reaction forms the magnesium will then stop reacting and then you can start the timer to find and calculate overunity. i know the layer forms a OH layer. but using other forms of metals, you can save yourself the time to wait for the layer to form.
thanks for the birthday wishes
Jon
Semiconducting properties of metal oxides are a real thing. There is even a guy who's doing a negative resistance oscillator with zinc oxide, what was the site again? sparkbangboom.com? No, :
www.sparkbangbuzz.com/els/ntype-nr-el.htm
he's got some cool stuff there.
BR
thats some good stuff right there. im not very good at making circuits but that is my next step.
and quick update, ive fired up the scaled up version of the karpen and it will run a 2.5 watt led at about quarter brightness and at standing rest before a load 17.25v then 6ma and falling. after letting the layers form for 12 hours im calling an average of a half a watt
i ran the numbers for 14v 4ma because that seems to be my average reading without long rest times.and with the total mass of the magnesium overunity will be passed at 40 days from now
profitis has the numbers and is double checking me so i may revise this later.
ill be editing the video next week for you guys to see how i did it but i'm not sure if doubling the size would be effective here or starting testing with new materials. ill decide that later
if it wasn't my birthday weekend id work on it over the weekend but i've decided to have an adult headache instead
all the best
jon
Jon:
Happy Birthday!
Hey, be careful up there. N.J. now allows you to only drink 2 beers before being taxed at 26% of your gross income when you crack open the 3rd beer, ha ha.
Seriously, have a good one.
Bill
Quote from: jonfrommanahawkin1 on February 06, 2015, 08:15:20 PM
thats some good stuff right there. im not very good at making circuits but that is my next step.
and quick update, ive fired up the scaled up version of the karpen and it will run a 2.5 watt led at about quarter brightness and at standing rest before a load 17.25v then 6ma and falling. after letting the layers form for 12 hours im calling an average of a half a watt
i ran the numbers for 14v 4ma because that seems to be my average reading without long rest times.and with the total mass of the magnesium overunity will be passed at 40 days from now
profitis has the numbers and is double checking me so i may revise this later.
ill be editing the video next week for you guys to see how i did it but i'm not sure if doubling the size would be effective here or starting testing with new materials. ill decide that later
if it wasn't my birthday weekend id work on it over the weekend but i've decided to have an adult headache instead
all the best
jon
Maybe you should run the numbers again.
14V x 4mA = 56 milliWatts, not "half a watt".
17.25V x 6mA = a bit over one-tenth of a watt.
Am I missing something here?
(Happy birthday, by the way..., hope your head feels better...)
sorry tinsel, i should clarify
im calling it at an average of a half a watt for cost per watt is too onerous.
but it has a undefined life time so idk this is still prototype stage
and im using the word undefined from the original patents so i don't have to say forever because unlike the original these metals will eventually oxidize back to an ore type product and at that point its passed the overunity calculation of a standard battery. that reaction cant be avoided
and lol pirate
i avoided the tax but they sited me with a fine for second law violation, i tried to explain that it technically cant and why i think it works but the judge didn't want to here it. but thats jersey
all the best
jon
Quote from: jonfrommanahawkin1 on February 07, 2015, 08:24:28 AM
sorry tinsel, i should clarify
im calling it at an average of a half a watt for cost per watt is too onerous.
but it has a undefined life time so idk this is still prototype stage
and im using the word undefined from the original patents so i don't have to say forever because unlike the original these metals will eventually oxidize back to an ore type product and at that point its passed the overunity calculation of a standard battery. that reaction cant be avoided
and lol pirate
i avoided the tax but they sited me with a fine for second law violation, i tried to explain that it technically cant and why i think it works but the judge didn't want to here it. but thats jersey
all the best
jon
Please explain precisely where you got the "half a watt" figure from. The numbers you report, as I have shown, only reach about one-tenth of "half a watt" while you are running a load. Are you sure you didn't misplace a decimal point?
You can't use your visual impression of LED brightness as a power estimation. This can be very deceptive. LEDs will shine relatively brightly on much less power than they are rated for.
Well then we probably should run LEDs with 1mA, if they are half bright, just use two of them 8)
BR
Quote from: dieter on February 07, 2015, 01:43:47 PM
Well then we probably should run LEDs with 1mA, if they are half bright, just use two of them 8)
BR
You can run them on a lot less than that...and they are still lit.
Bill
Cost per watt, it's a phrase used when determining how much you want to spend on your solar panels or when developing new energy types.
Jon
You need to measure the voltage across the diode and the current and multiply these two. It won't be 14V, more like 1V. Profits should be telling you this. You are practically shorting the cell with the diode without a resistor. Well one with the new video, Keep up the good work.
Pomodoro go away
Quotehttp://youtu.be/WRIp4XZbJzk
Out of topic, is your boiler leaking inside. I kept getting distracted from the steam going up from your boiler.
Though maybe it is just the boiler warming up the cold air around it making it less heavy than cold air. Just in my mind I may think toxic air polluting but it could just be the boiler heating up the cold air.
I have never noticed that before on a boiler. That's all.
High pressure busts pipes and pipes leak water .....but boilers hold hot pipes. If you fricadeal me.
jon
Chek out this cell. possibly the watch and clock battery of choice in the future.ten continuous microamps for the last 7days and no sign of halting yet.less than a quarter ml air trapped and completely sealed inside.by now the pressure of this air bubble shouldv come down due to oxygen uptake by anode but nothing yet.
Quote from: profitis on February 08, 2015, 02:09:58 AM
Chek out this cell. possibly the watch and clock battery of choice in the future.ten continuous microamps for the last 7days and no sign of halting yet.less than a quarter ml air trapped and completely sealed inside.by now the pressure of this air bubble shouldv come down due to oxygen uptake by anode but nothing yet.
Not if the magnesium is oxidizing slowly through the 'protective' layer.
No more from me, I will respect John's wishes.
Pomodoro no one asked your opinion. because you can calculate it thats how we know its overunity re re
profitis,
im glad you made it to the thread, maybe you can fight back the trolls a little for me ?
Jon
No magnesi in that one pomodoro but the principal remains.if we expect a faradays laws adherence we must expect a certain mass of either gas and/or metal to dissolude. If that law is proven non-applicable in any single galvano demo then somethins up.sumtin good
Hey jon my fave weapon against critics is a bit of love, textbooks and demo to go.works everytime (:
profitis,i know exactly what your saying but i've now realised that it was pomodoro that has been telling everyone to measure batteries wrong but yet he still claims to be something important and its him and people like him that, are messing it up for the rest of us. its one thing to be a critic but a whole different thing to be a nuisance.
and if nothing else i'm going to make that definition very clear to people
Jon
Quote frm dieter: I would like to do some experiments with gold leafes that I got, 23.99 carat, if it' s only the anode that corrodes, what would you try as the other element?'
End quote
How much does this weigh dieter
Just found this thread. Cool stuff jonfrommanahawkin1. Keep up the good work.
I just wanted to stop in and leave the latest update for the Karpen. In short I'm getting interesting data and I'm changing variables and I can see that in the future I'll be making a crystal cell Karpen from this data. The problem I keep running into is crystal formation away from the electrodes changing the pH closest to the anode and cathode. I don't mention this information in the video however this data is coming from observations I'm seeing from the test I ran in this video.
There will be more sooner then later but if I don't see the fullest, maximum results from one more test I'll be moving away from magnesium and I'll explain that and more in my next video
And I would also like to say thank you all for your interest and support
Karpen update video:
https://youtu.be/OhjQUrCzp8Y
Thanks again
Jon
Glad to see an update. Very interesting work!
Quote from: profitis on February 08, 2015, 02:09:58 AM
Chek out this cell. possibly the watch and clock battery of choice in the future.ten continuous microamps for the last 7days and no sign of halting yet.less than a quarter ml air trapped and completely sealed inside.by now the pressure of this air bubble shouldv come down due to oxygen uptake by anode but nothing yet.
Nicely done. Can you spill the beans on how you made the little cell? Didn't notice it in the picture until now. Only noticed the meter before.
Magnaprop:'Nicely done. Can you spill the beans on how you made the little cell?'
Yes,twas a bismuth anode and silver cathode in NaOH sol but it turned out to be a slow corrosion unfortunately.voltage dropped after a few weeks.back to drawing board again
Thanks for the info profitis. I wonder if doing these experiments in a vacuum container would help stop or slow the corrosion?
Not sure how one would go about putting these items in a vacuum sealed container though?
Magnaprop:'I wonder if doing these experiments in a vacuum container would help stop or slow the corrosion?'
It definitely would reduce it.your giving me ideas now :)
'Not sure how one would go about putting these items in a vacuum sealed container though?'
Throw in a tiny piece zinc(when I say tiny I mean tiny like two pinheads).this piece mustnot contact the anode or cathode.it will scavenge all O2 trapped inside the container and leave only inert nitrogen(will take a few hours).nitrogen won't react with anything inside there so its essentially a vaccuum.your cell will have to be damn well totaly sealed,squeeze it with fingers to make sure.please post results if you do this
Sounds good. Thanks for that info. I've never built a Karpen before so it may be a while till I get to it.
Don't worry I did it.it turns out that a small voltage and current is available with zero o2 in the system but it is not overunity but instead resulting from slight solubility of Bismuth metal in alkali( bismuthite ion).this will simply result in a bismuth metal concentration gradient with bismuth dissolving off anode and plating out ontop of cathode until equalization of concentrations occurs.one has to sometimes pay attention to very fine details with electrochemistry
The solubility of bismuth is PH dependant.the more alkaline the more soluble so I'm going to try this in mildly alkaline electrolyte now.
Sounds good. Glad someone more versed than me is working on your idea. I just saw a "lemon" battery kit at the hobby store for powering a watch from a lemon. It'll be my first time playing with dissimilar metals.
Maybe a little corrosion needs to take place first to start the process then you can take to air out to keep it at that state longer?
Going to try it under hydrogen.then any corrosion process should become reversible
Here's it under air.tiny piece zinc in ther should swallow all o2 and liberate h2 soon
Energy theoretically must come from somewhere so I've done a quick video to explain how and where and why I continue to experiment with Karpen type batteries
Karpen Theory Explained: https://youtu.be/QqbqAxVKyfk
Both you and exnihiloest are correct @john ambient heat via heisenberg and zero point. Chek this out...pomodoro,ibpointless and vk2zay made it to national tv in europe with their(and my) karpens https://youtu.be/51r2rh4ahc8 .if this link don't work search youtube 'pila karpen inventata de ing. nicolae vasilescu karpen'.I'm not surprised if this is romanian tv