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Interesting vid from Lidmotor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3ob914aCKw I see Coule Joule has also done a build.
Here is JB build from last week.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQzcYZk9MWA

This is a copy posting from the "Sine Wave" thread:

The picture below from JLN is just to help visualize the concept. Look at the rings inside the core of the coil form. Imagine a bearingless tube magnet spinning inside the center of the rings where coils would be positioned as the rings are; One coil a bifilar Bedini power coil wired as Lidmoter's SSG, and the remaining seven, output coils, all "Lenz Free"!

The coil poles form on the perpendicular to the permanent magnet field, so they can't cause trouble like they would if they were facing the magnet spinner.

Quote from: Jimboot on November 03, 2015, 09:53:20 PM
Interesting vid from Lidmotor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3ob914aCKw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3ob914aCKw) I see Coule Joule has also done a build.
Here is JB build from last week.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQzcYZk9MWA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQzcYZk9MWA)

check it out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdQ7uBrSuuM


I commented on Lidmotor's youtube:


"I'm always amazed how long you can run your builds off of a supercap.
So, sorry to say this and please correct me if I misunderstand you someplace, but this is not JB's Zero Force Motor. I'm not talking about the build or some little idiosyncrasy that I'm getting hung up on.
There is one reason this is not Zero Force. hint - if it was Zero Force, you would not be able to run it on that circuit you have there.
cheers - Patrick"
and he muted me - lol


I guess I was too secretive on my comment? Anyway, the zero force if you understand it does not make a significant wave, that is you should not be able to trigger a transistor hence you can not run it that way. this is why JB is using a reed switch. We can just as well use a hall sensor. The timing is also important which is another reason to get the "trigger" out of the coil...
Cheers - Patrick (my real name!)

I'm baffled as to why it's called "zero force" considering that it requires force to make the rotor spin and that force comes from the repulsion or attraction between the rotor magnets and the magnetic fields produced by the two drive coils.  I suppose that you could call it a "marketing term."

Putting the drive coils sideways still results in a magnetic force on the rotor magnets.  The reduced coupling between the magnets and the drive coils will reduce the EMF induced in the coils when the rotor magnets pass, but so what?  EMF induced in the drive coils has no really significant effect on the operation of the motor.  I believe in JB's clip he is also referring to this as "counter-EMF."

JB says, "The motor is running in a neutral zero field."  It's not hard to visualize the field produced by the drive coils and that's certainly not a "neutral zero field."  He says that the motor "does not have a counter-EMF while it is rotating."  The truth is that it does, although it is reduced like I state above.  All that you have to do is scope a disconnected drive coil and spin the rotor by hand and you will clearly see the EMF (a.k.a. "counter-EMF") induced in the drive coils by the passing magnets.  There are some gentle slopes that you see on the scope display which may be due to the induced EMF.  But keep in mind, this induced EMF has no real effect on the operation of this pulse motor, so it is meaningless.  In his clip he talks about a "figure-eight loop" and "spins" for the magnetic fields generated by the drive coils which is nonsense.

A month ago on his YouTube channel AaronM made this comment about this type of motor, "The novelty of this motor is that there is no back emf. Lenz's law is avoided."  What "back emf" is he talking about?  What Lenz's Law is he talking about I wonder.  Perhaps someone can educate me because I see no back-EMF and no Lenz's Law associated with this pulse motor.  I suppose it depends on how you define it.  More importantly, what tangible effect is he talking about?  He also says this, which is almost comical, "Anything that needs some good torque or speed with less electricity than it normally takes. Without Back EMF, it is way more efficient than conventional motors."  It's a pulse motor, the torque is abysmal.  Again, what "back-EMF?"  It's not "way more efficient than conventional motors."  For every pulse of the drive coils, that takes a certain amount of battery energy.  Where does that energy go?  A small amount of it goes into pushing on the rotor to make it spin.  A big chunk of it goes into subtending the magnetic field produced by each drive coil.  Most of the battery energy required to produce that pair of subtended magnetic fields does no useful work.  When the transistors switch off, you get the big high voltage spikes you see on the scope display.  That's the stored energy in the magnetic fields collapsing and slamming current through the transistors that are in the process of switching off.  It's safe to say that probably much more supplied battery energy goes into heating the transistors than goes into actually making the rotor run.  So Aaron's statement that "Without Back EMF, it is way more efficient than conventional motors." is dead wrong.

It's a fun build I am sure, and it is interesting looking from an aesthetic viewpoint.  However, it will not be more efficient than a conventionally built pulse motor.  And not to be picky, but you have to define what "efficiency" means.  You absolutely have to do this.  So by several metrics for efficiency, you can expect that a conventional pulse motor will be more efficient than the "Zero Force" motor.

MileHigh

Here's a picture of my Marinov Slab motor that I built in 1999. The photo here was taken in 2005. I used a Hall effect sensor for the "triggering" a power mosfet but a reed switch and bipolar transistor would work just as well and would allow even lower voltage operation. This motor is an analog of the Marinov "warlock's wheel" or Siberian Coliu which has the stator structure and the armature both turning in the _same direction_. In my case of course the stator coils are fixed to the frame, but since they want to turn in the same direction as the rotor, not the opposite direction .... well, you can figure out just what that means.

Nearly _sixteen years_ ago I  made this !!

Quote from: TinselKoala on November 05, 2015, 09:22:03 PM
Here's a picture of my Marinov Slab motor that I built in 1999. The photo here was taken in 2005. I used a Hall effect sensor for the "triggering" a power mosfet but a reed switch and bipolar transistor would work just as well and would allow even lower voltage operation. This motor is an analog of the Marinov "warlock's wheel" or Siberian Coliu which has the stator structure and the armature both turning in the _same direction_. In my case of course the stator coils are fixed to the frame, but since they want to turn in the same direction as the rotor, not the opposite direction .... well, you can figure out just what that means.

Nearly _sixteen years_ ago I  made this !!

I would love to see that in action, very cool!

Lidmotor's latest "Zero Force Bedini":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6h5kK8zUog

no new news nothing to wounder in awe here move on please,
move on lol good on you tk..best new news is my new post on
tinman shorting post.. check it out and let me know if it works.
i will classify it as electrical lamination..

Quote from: TinselKoala on November 05, 2015, 09:22:03 PM
Here's a picture of my Marinov Slab motor that I built in 1999. The photo here was taken in 2005. I used a Hall effect sensor for the "triggering" a power mosfet but a reed switch and bipolar transistor would work just as well and would allow even lower voltage operation. This motor is an analog of the Marinov "warlock's wheel" or Siberian Coliu which has the stator structure and the armature both turning in the _same direction_. In my case of course the stator coils are fixed to the frame, but since they want to turn in the same direction as the rotor, not the opposite direction .... well, you can figure out just what that means.

Nearly _sixteen years_ ago I  made this !!

Yeah but you didn't give it a cool name. Dig up the vhs tapes and put it on YT otherwise it's not real :)
I'm not that impressed with a 5ma current draw as lid motor reported. Geez even I can get a pulse motor running at 6000 rpm on 5ma

Assuming the parts were foraged from back alley fry grease trash barrels, it might be more aptly named the Marinov "Slob" motor.

Quote from: Jimboot on November 06, 2015, 05:55:59 AM
Yeah but you didn't give it a cool name. Dig up the vhs tapes and put it on YT otherwise it's not real :)
I'm not that impressed with a 5ma current draw as lid motor reported. Geez even I can get a pulse motor running at 6000 rpm on 5ma

well i just had to go and build one Jim lol.

Video up soon-->what a crap motor lol.

Quote from: synchro1 on November 05, 2015, 11:05:50 PM
Lidmotor's latest "Zero Force Bedini":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6h5kK8zUog (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6h5kK8zUog)

The timing on that build is still wrong - Have to watch JB's vid and slow it down frame by frame.
I was able to get my toroidal build down to microAmps. Still, I have many a build that will run on low watts like that including the "dollar store solar begging cat"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDiaiKzWx2Q
In his video JB actually states where the timing is as well.

 I am most anxious to see detailed plans and videos showing how this motor can run on micro amps and produce torque.  I must be missing something.  I just see a curious inefficient motor. 
  Tk I would really like to see that 'slab motor' in action.  That might be my next fun build.
--Lidmotor

In Lidmotor's clip you can see that he has the reed switch positioned so that the drive coils are energized when the rotor magnets are approximately in the middle of the drive coils.  This is what JB stipulates so I am not sure why you have an issue with the timing.  We can't see the duty cycle.

In the JB clip there is a double-pulse that energizes the coils.  That seems strange considering he is using magnets and (presumably) a single reed switch on a timing wheel.  It would be worth investigating if you has his build.  Assume the rotor magnets are approximately in the middle of the drive coils when the drive coils are energized.  We can see the duty cycle is about 40% ON time.  I am going to guess that that's too high a duty cycle and he is wasting energy.  However, because of the way his timing wheel and the magnets and reed switch are arranged, he can't really move the reed switch in and out and adjust the duty cycle easily.

For your build, if you make a full toroidal core with no air gaps then it's very likely that the motor won't run at all.  Almost all of the flux will be contained in the core and none will be available to provide attraction/repulsion to the rotor magnets.  It looks like the reason it runs is because you are "saved" by the little white plastic gaps at the top and (presumably) bottom of the two halves of the core.  It goes right back to the main problem with this design, you are getting very little bang for your buck when it comes to using the available magnetic energy that you put in the drive coils.  I will post a superior design that makes use of more of the energy that you put in the drive coils.

I think that Lidmotor is paying lip service to JB when he says, "this point in a magnet where the flux goes to zero" and he is pointing at the center of one of the drive coils.  He is fully aware that the flux does not go to zero at the center and there is no Bloch wall at the center of a magnet or at the center of an energized coil.  That's a foolish myth that needs to be corrected.

Well here is the kick-ass pulse motor that I am calling the "figure-eight" pulse motor.  It uses both ends of the drive coil, and there is a pair of drive coils, hence the "figure-eight."

The drive coils I made have a "C" form, but that's just because I was using Paint and I can't be bothered to do anything fancier than that.  They could just as easily be nice smooth curves if you wanted.

Since this motor is using both ends of a pair of drive coils, and if you went with full pull-then-push double pulses, it would be a screamer and use a fair chunk of the energy that you put into the drive coils to actually make the rotor turn.  With pull-then-push timing you can energize the pair of drive cols eight times per revolution.  Considering that there are four sources of driving torque on the rotor, that's almost like having thirty-two "pulses per revolution."  However, the timing here is very tricky, because if you are going to fire the drive coils every 1/4 turn, then you have to alternate the polarities for energizing the coils every 1/4 turn.  That requires some sophistication in the timing and coil energizing circuit.  The easiest way to get the design going would be to fire the drive coils every 1/2 turn.  Then you can forget about the alternating polarities business.

The main design and build challenge is developing a system to implement the pulse timing.  You could use a "dumb" pick-up coil that is coaxial with one of the ends of one of the drive coils a la standard Bedini SG motor.  But then you are a victim of the double-pulse problem because when the drive coil energizes it feeds back into the pick-up coil and switches the transistor off.  Then the transistor switches on again and so on.  You have limited control over the pulse timing with that solution.  The MHOP design is not really going to work either because you don't have a "clear" space to add the sensor coil for the op-amp that is aligned in time with where you want to energize the drive coils.

To solve the problems associated with the timing circuit when you want to fire the pair of drive coils four times per revolution, you can see how I added four "button" magnets that are 45 degrees away from the main rotor magnets.  They also alternate north-south to be in accord with the way the rotor magnets are arranged.  If you put only two button magnets instead of four, the you can use a "dumb" pick-up coil or a "dumb" reed switch or the basic MHOP circuit to control the firing of the drive coils only twice per revolution.  You still will have quite a bit of control over the timing because you can move the pick-up coil or the reed switch, play with the value of the base resistor, etc.  If you want much better timing control and sharp ON-OFF switching, use the MHOP timing circuit and then you are laughing.  One of the biggest advantages of the MHOP design is the razor-sharp ON-OFF switching.

With four button magnets and the MHOP timing circuit, then you can have a very flexible control for the timing of the energizing pulses.  However, you still have the problem of making sure that you are in sync with the north-south-north-south arrangement of the rotor magnets.  Since the button magnets alternate north-south in theory you have all of the information you need to know which direction to energize the drive coils every 1/4 turn.  However, the devil would be in the details.  For example, you could use a CMOS 4000 series Set-Reset Flip-Flop to get the sequencing of the energizing of the drive coils properly synchronized with the rotor magnets.

The "Cadillac" design would fire the rotor eight times per revolution, with the fancy alternating polarities and the pull-push on the rotor, and also have full pulse timing flexibility like the MHOP design.  It would be a real challenge for the average experimenter to design and build, but that's supposed to be part of the fun.

I also note that if you fire the drive coils with only one of the two possible pulses per magnet pass, and you only energize the drive coils in one direction (keep it simple), then that would work out just fine with a "dumb" timing circuit.  For example, if you used the "dumb" Bediini SSG pick-up coil with the alternating magnet polarities on the rotor, you would fire say a "push" (after TDC) when the north-facing rotor magnet passes, and then a "pull" (before TDC) when the south-facing rotor magnet passes.  There is nothing special to do, it would all be automatic.  So this would give you four power pulses to the drive coil per rotor revolution, alternating a single pulse of push (after TDC), then a single pulse of pull (before TDC) for each individual magnet as it passes each end of a drive coil, with very very simple timing circuitry.  In other words, each individual magnet would see push, then pull, then push, then pull as it does a full 360 degree rotation.  Since you have four sources of driving torque on the rotor (the two drive coils) and four magnets on the rotor, it would "look like" sixteen "pulses per revolution" - with simple timing circuitry.  This would also work perfectly with the MHOP timing circuit and using the button timing magnets.

As far as the fancy double pulse per magnet pass goes, alternating the direction you actually energize the coils to give you a pull then a push, don't I always see people posting a "H bridge" circuit with an arrangement of MSOFETs that will energize a coil in one direction or the other direction based on a control signal input?  So that means the circuit to fire the drive coils in either direction is already done, and the main challenge is in implementing the timing control circuit.  However, as stated above, even a basic timing control circuit gives you the equivalent of sixteen drive pulses per revolution.

If you use the H-Bridge then you have to have a way to safely get rid of the stored energy in the collapsing magnetic fields.  I am not going to look up the circuit so I don't know how difficult or easy that is.

The creme de la creme is this:  You precisely adjust the drive voltage for the coils and the pulse timing so that a maximum of the energy supplied goes into applying drive torque to the motor, and a minimum of energy remains in the collapsing magnetic fields of the two drive coils for a given RPM.  There is nothing special about the energy in the collapsing magnetic fields and it is actually best considered mostly waste or lost battery energy.  Nor is it "radiant energy."  You go look up any electronics book and find the discussion about a coil discharging it's stored magnetic energy because current is flowing through it, and you will not find a single reference to it as being "radiant energy."  "Radiant energy" with respect to a coil discharge is just a meaningless buzz word in the realm of the forums and free energy.

Again, the most interesting challenge is to maximize the supplied battery power that actually makes the rotor spin, and to minimize the "waste" energy that you have in the collapsing magnetic field.  That a challenge that is almost never considered by a pulse motor builder, but it is very real.

Here is the reason why it is real:  The source battery energy that eventually goes to the charging battery via the collapsing magnetic field - that energy transfer is very inefficient - perhaps you will lose 40% of the source battery energy in the process of transferring.  So what's the point?  Logic says you may as well keep the energy in the source battery in the first place.  You lose too much when you go to recharge the target charging battery.  That's reality for you.

Here is my first go at the zero force motor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOdAneOt7lk

Quote from: tinman on November 06, 2015, 05:47:05 PM
Here is my first go at the zero force motor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOdAneOt7lk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOdAneOt7lk)

Hey there Tinman, looks like you got the timing correct at the end of your video. Nice work!
Once I got the bipolar switch on there my power consumption was reduced even further. Alas, this is still as in many of my builds only very efficient. My toroidal design was for sure less efficient than my spool design, I got the spools down to the micro Amps.
Anyway all fun - cheers - Patrick


I mentioned earlier to everyone in an earlier post here to listen to JB and to slow his vid down to frame by frame...

That is great Patrick but here is John's diagram that I went by on my build.  I must have misunderstood something.  In this diagram he shows the motor being fired when the rotor magnets are in the middle of the coils.  Perhaps he just drew the timing wheel wrong.  I tried moving the reed switch to the corner like TinMan did and my motor ran better.  Configured like this the motor becomes more traditional with all four of the coil ends push/pulling on the rotor when the reed triggers.  The question then arises--why did he call it a 'zero force motor'.

Quote from: Lidmotor on November 06, 2015, 07:45:40 PM
That is great Patrick but here is John's diagram that I went by on my build.  I must have misunderstood something.  In this diagram he shows the motor being fired when the rotor magnets are in the middle of the coils.  Perhaps he just drew the timing wheel wrong.  I tried moving the reed switch to the corner like TinMan did and my motor ran better.  Configured like this the motor becomes more traditional with all four of the coil ends push/pulling on the rotor when the reed triggers.  The question then arises--why did he call it a 'zero force motor'.

That is correct Lidmotor,John dose indeed say and show that the coil should be energized when the magnet is in the middle of the coil--this is where the term zero force came from,as he thinks there is zero magnetic field at the center of the coil. The fact is,the field(both magnetic and electric) is strongest at the center of the coil.

Anyway,im with you on this one-->enough time spent on it.
Time to move on to a different project (pulse motor of course lol).

btw thanks for chiming in here Lidmotor, I really enjoy your builds.

Quote from: Lidmotor on November 06, 2015, 07:45:40 PM
That is great Patrick but here is John's diagram that I went by on my build.  I must have misunderstood something.  In this diagram he shows the motor being fired when the rotor magnets are in the middle of the coils.  Perhaps he just drew the timing wheel wrong.  I tried moving the reed switch to the corner like TinMan did and my motor ran better.  Configured like this the motor becomes more traditional with all four of the coil ends push/pulling on the rotor when the reed triggers.  The question then arises--why did he call it a 'zero force motor'.

Why did you mute me on youtube?

I am still going to moan about people saying "my pulse motor is efficient."  After years of building pulse motors you need to get some creative juices flowing.   You can't possibly compare an "efficient" pulse motor with a tiny rotor that weighs a few grams with an "efficient" pulse motor with a large rotor that weighs 500 grams.  So how do you address that issue?  Nor can you just quote current consumption without also quoting the source voltage.  You should be quoting input power - that's two birds with one stone.  Measuring power consumption vs. charging battery power is another interesting measurement.

What about how efficient your own pulse motor is at a given RPM?  I think air resistance is proportional to the square or possibly the cube of the velocity.  That suggests that more watts are required per unit RPM for increasing steady-state RPMs.  You could even plot that on a graph, just record the input power at say eight different RPMs and see if you see that air resistance signature in the plot.  Something akin to the power curves that you see for real motors.

The real thing for the efficiency game is having full control over the timing and finding the perfect sweet spot for the narrowest possible pulse width and the resultant least amount of power consumed at a given RPM.  Of course moving the reed switch around is a way to accomplish this, but it has its limitations.  The MHOP analog comparitor is a more sophisticated version of a reed switch.  Of course a microcontroller approach to optimizing the timing would be the Cadillac approach.

These are things that should be considered for a major build that you want to invest real time in  - but I am not sure about the spaghetti sticking.

Quote from: tinman on November 06, 2015, 09:52:57 PM
That is correct Lidmotor,John dose indeed say and show that the coil should be energized when the magnet is in the middle of the coil--this is where the term zero force came from,as he thinks there is zero magnetic field at the center of the coil. The fact is,the field(both magnetic and electric) is strongest at the center of the coil.

Anyway,im with you on this one-->enough time spent on it.
Time to move on to a different project (pulse motor of course lol).

John can speak for himself, IMHO I think he may be misunderstood. Say what he does or not the proof of how he is running it is in the frame by frame. This is how I understood it when he was speaking as well. I never imagined it any other way. I mean, what did he mean when he said the timing on the monopole is at 23 degrees right.... And........ let us not forget the force between the magnets, he draws it out as shown in lids crop of the vid there. I really don't understand the animosity i'm sensing here or perhaps i'm being too sensitive.

Quote from: MileHigh on November 06, 2015, 10:53:32 PM
I am still going to moan about people saying "my pulse motor is efficient."  After years of building pulse motors you need to get some creative juices flowing.   You can't possibly compare an "efficient" pulse motor with a tiny rotor that weighs a few grams with an "efficient" pulse motor with a large rotor that weighs 500 grams.  So how do you address that issue?  Nor can you just quote current consumption without also quoting the source voltage.  You should be quoting input power - that's two birds with one stone.  Measuring power consumption vs. charging battery power is another interesting measurement.

What about how efficient your own pulse motor is at a give RPM?  I think air resistance is proportional to the square or possibly the cube of the velocity.  That suggests that more watts are required per unit RPM for increasing steady-state RPMs.  You could even plot that on a graph, just record the input power at say eight different RPMs and see if you see that air resistance signature in the plot.  Something akin to the power curves that you see for real motors.

The real thing for the efficiency game is having full control over the timing and finding the perfect sweet spot for the narrowest possible pulse width and the resultant least amount of power consumed at a given RPM.  Of course moving the reed switch around is a way to accomplish this, but it has its limitations.  The MHOP analog comparitor is a more sophisticated version of a reed switch.  Of course a microcontroller approach to optimizing the timing would be the Cadillac approach.

These are things that should be considered for a major build that you want to invest real time in  - but I am not sure about the spaghetti sticking.

excellent points!
however, and i speak for myself. These are only spaghetti spinners here (meant like "spaghetti westerns") dime a dozen. When I used the word efficient, that was only to reflect it still uses energy - nothing free here.

Quote from: minoly on November 06, 2015, 11:03:44 PM
I really don't understand the animosity i'm sensing here or perhaps i'm being too sensitive.

Lots of people have issues with JB.  For example, in his clip, let's assume the supply voltage is 24 volts or less.  Brad's motor was running on something like 170 milliamps at 12 volts (I think).  Brad's motor is somewhat comparable to JB's motor.  I think in JB's clip that he claims that his 3D-printed motor runs on a few tens of mircoamps.  I don't believe it.  It's arguable this is just "aura projection" and has nothing to do with realty.  Just like the name "zero force motor" has nothing to do with reality.

When Lidomotor makes motors that run on microamps, they are usually tiny little things on needlepoint bearings.  You would damage one if you sneezed on it.

So there is a reality disconnect for you, hence many people have issues with JB.

I and others take issue with JB's misappropriated term "radiant energy" or "radiant spike."  There is nothing "radiant" about it.  He actually does not explain to his followers what the "spike" really is, and this has been going on for years and years.  If you don't believe me just factor in the fact that I just gave a "paper napkin plus" version of a fairly sophisticated pulse motor.

Minoly:

If I can ask you one thing, just spend a few nights researching about how a coil discharges its stored energy.  It discharges its stored energy in the form of a decreasing current pulse, that can assume a variable voltage.  That's in contrast with how a capacitor discharges its stored energy in the form of a decreasing voltage pulse that can assume variable current.

That's the "secret" that JB keeps under wraps.  There is nothing especially unique or amazing or "radiant" about a discharging coil producing high voltage spikes into a high resistance load.  If you spend a few nights researching this issue it should all become clear:  Just like a capacitor works to maintain its voltage level, an inductor works to maintain its current level.  Therefore (fixed current x high resistance) = high voltage.  That's the real deal, it's not mysterious "radiant energy."

Please go on a Google search where you look at four, five, or six discussions of this phenomenon and I am quite certain that you will get it.  Then you are going to ask yourself how JB doesn't talk about this and draw your own conclusions.

MileHigh

Quote from: MileHigh on November 06, 2015, 11:19:23 PM
Lots of people have issues with JB.  For example, in his clip, let's assume the supply voltage is 24 volts or less.  Brad's motor was running on something like 170 milliamps at 12 volts (I think).  Brad's motor is somewhat comparable to JB's motor.  I think in JB's clip that he claims that his 3D-printed motor runs on a few tens of mircoamps.  I don't believe it.  It's arguable this is just "aura projection" and has nothing to do with realty.  Just like the name "zero force motor" has nothing to do with reality.

When Lidomotor makes motors that run on microamps, they are usually tiny little things on needlepoint bearings.  You would damage one if you sneezed on it.

So there is a reality disconnect for you, hence many people have issues with JB.

I and others take issue with JB's misappropriated term "radiant energy" or "radiant spike."  There is nothing "radiant" about it.  He actually does not explain to his followers what the "spike" really is, and this has been going on for years and years.  If you don't believe me just factor in the fact that I just gave a "paper napkin plus" version of a fairly sophisticated pulse motor.

Brad's is running on 5 volts
JB's was running on 12 volts 1 mA
I don't need to defend him however he is only explaining things the way he sees them we can take from it what we like and move on with our own perception of reality,  or do the opposite of aura projection
I'm not sure what you mean by reality disconnect - that makes no sense to me without an explanation.
I believe we are all grown up here and can learn what we like from each other without having to proliferate animosity toward one another.

Quote from: minoly on November 07, 2015, 12:00:06 AM
Brad's is running on 5 volts
JB's was running on 12 volts 1 mA
I don't need to defend him however he is only explaining things the way he sees them we can take from it what we like and move on with our own perception of reality,  or do the opposite of aura projection
I'm not sure what you mean by reality disconnect - that makes no sense to me without an explanation.
I believe we are all grown up here and can learn what we like from each other without having to proliferate animosity toward one another.

Hi Minoly.

The animosity is because of the rubbish they tell you just so as they can make a dollar.
Example-watch the video again,and listen carefully from 3.15. Here John talks about this bloch wall that dose not exist. He also says his motor is running at 12v 1mA. No way in hell is it doing that with that fan blade attached--the whole machine is 1 big lot of wind resistance.

He clearly states that the magnets are either pulled from the center of the coil out,or pushed from the center of the coil out. He also clearly states that there is 0 field at the center of the coil,and this is just not true. You need to understand that all this fancy rubbish talk go"s toward book and kit sales in the end--this is how they make there money.

So many books of secret's,but never one straight answer in them.
The radiant energy spike they speak of is nothing more than the collapsing magnetic field around the inductor(coil). The only way that radiant can be associated with it is that the magnetic field radiates out from the coil when a current is passed through that coil. This radiated field collapses,and causes an inductive kickback spike when the current flow to the coil is disrupted--nothing more than that.

Here is something to think about-->do you think it was JB that invented the transistor switched pulse motor as claimed?
Here is a little reading for you from 1969<--yes, in 1969 plans were out there for transistor switched pulse motors.

http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-Radio-Logbooks/Science-and-Electronics/Science-and-Electronics-1969-12-01.pdf

Quote from: MileHigh on November 06, 2015, 10:53:32 PM
I am still going to moan about people saying "my pulse motor is efficient."  After years of building pulse motors you need to get some creative juices flowing.   You can't possibly compare an "efficient" pulse motor with a tiny rotor that weighs a few grams with an "efficient" pulse motor with a large rotor that weighs 500 grams.  So how do you address that issue?  Nor can you just quote current consumption without also quoting the source voltage.  You should be quoting input power - that's two birds with one stone.  Measuring power consumption vs. charging battery power is another interesting measurement.

What about how efficient your own pulse motor is at a given RPM?  I think air resistance is proportional to the square or possibly the cube of the velocity.  That suggests that more watts are required per unit RPM for increasing steady-state RPMs.  You could even plot that on a graph, just record the input power at say eight different RPMs and see if you see that air resistance signature in the plot.  Something akin to the power curves that you see for real motors.

The real thing for the efficiency game is having full control over the timing and finding the perfect sweet spot for the narrowest possible pulse width and the resultant least amount of power consumed at a given RPM.  Of course moving the reed switch around is a way to accomplish this, but it has its limitations.  The MHOP analog comparitor is a more sophisticated version of a reed switch.  Of course a microcontroller approach to optimizing the timing would be the Cadillac approach.

These are things that should be considered for a major build that you want to invest real time in  - but I am not sure about the spaghetti sticking.

My pulse motor consumes 60mw at 6000RPM. Pretty good for me :)

Minoly:

I apologize I stand corrected on the one miliampere current draw of JB's pulse motor.  When I watched the clip and heard that number I was struck by how low it was but it didn't fully register.  I was not up to watching the clip a second time to check his figure.  But like Brad said, that is simply way too low of a current consumption figure.  We all have probably looked at hundreds of pulse motor clips and judging by size of his motor and the speed, the coil size, and the sense of how much power is being burned off to do what it does, there is no way that his motor is consuming one milliamp at 12 volts.  It just doesn't fit.  That is an example of the "reality disconnect."

Here is another example of a "reality disconnect" that I mentioned about two weeks ago:  If you buy a hand-held digital stopwatch, or use one on your phone, the one-hundredth of a second measurement makes no sense - it's a lie.  A human being is simply not capable of having a reaction time accurate down to one one-hundredth of a second.  That digit is pure junk, and yet many companies that make stopwatches do that to sell more product.

You mention "perception of reality."  You have to decide what is cut and dried, and what is perception when it comes to electronics and pulse motors.  In electronics, it's much more of a cut and dried thing than it is a perception of reality.

Brad:

I forgot to say I watched your "zero force" motor clip and it was pretty cool how you improved the timing and cut through to the truth.  Using the coil discharge to light an LED to show the rotor timing was pretty neat also.  I assume you recall the trick that TK did on his MHOP series of clips to show the start and end of the ON time for the MOSFET (or was it a transistor?)    ;D

MileHigh

I know most of you from quite a ways back so I thought that I would stop by and add what I have done on this project.  I try not to take this stuff too seriously.  Life is too short.  Milehigh ----Hewey. Dewey. and Lewey say hi.  All of them are still around.  Patrick---the only reason I deleted your comment was because you have your YouTube reply button turned off and I didn't agree with what you said.  I sent you a PM explaining why.  Tinman ---many thanks for that old magazine link.  I grew up on Popular Science and Popular Mechanics magazines.  We had a book shelf full of them.  You are right that we should probably put this project to rest shortly and move on.  JimBoot----always a pleasure to see what you are up to.  TK----I did some research on that 'Slab Motor' and got totally lost. 
   I adjusted the timing on my motor to where it runs much better now.  Here is where I ended up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65ZthhQOUkY
Cheers.  Lidmotor

I eagerly looked through the 1969 Science and Electronics magazine that Brad linked to.  I was especially interested in the back pages.  No Sea-Monkeys!?  What the heck!?

Lidmotor:

Nice to hear that the boys are all well.  And Maggie too?  lol

Attached are two pictures of their brethren.  If you have never seen the movie Silent Running it's really great.

MileHigh

And here is what I was really looking for in the back pages of the Science and Electronics magazine.  Okay I confess, you actually saw this ad in the back pages of the comic books around 1969.

It's a "PS."  That's Personal Submarine for you age-challenged.

Quote from: MileHigh on November 07, 2015, 02:45:08 AM
Minoly:

I apologize I stand corrected on the one miliampere current draw of JB's pulse motor.  When I watched the clip and heard that number I was struck by how low it was but it didn't fully register.  I was not up to watching the clip a second time to check his figure.  But like Brad said, that is simply way too low of a current consumption figure.  We all have probably looked at hundreds of pulse motor clips and judging by size of his motor and the speed, the coil size, and the sense of how much power is being burned off to do what it does, there is no way that his motor is consuming one milliamp at 12 volts.  It just doesn't fit.  That is an example of the "reality disconnect."

Here is another example of a "reality disconnect" that I mentioned about two weeks ago:  If you buy a hand-held digital stopwatch, or use one on your phone, the one-hundredth of a second measurement makes no sense - it's a lie.  A human being is simply not capable of having a reaction time accurate down to one one-hundredth of a second.  That digit is pure junk, and yet many companies that make stopwatches do that to sell more product.

You mention "perception of reality."  You have to decide what is cut and dried, and what is perception when it comes to electronics and pulse motors.  In electronics, it's much more of a cut and dried thing than it is a perception of reality.



MileHigh

QuoteBrad:

I forgot to say I watched your "zero force" motor clip and it was pretty cool how you improved the timing and cut through to the truth.  Using the coil discharge to light an LED to show the rotor timing was pretty neat also.  I assume you recall the trick that TK did on his MHOP series of clips to show the start and end of the ON time for the MOSFET (or was it a transistor?)    ;D

I havnt watched TKs MHOP video's(i dont think),but yes,you can use the flyback to see switch off timing ,and if i wanted to see switch on timing,then i would just put an LED the opposite way around(and in series with the correct resistor)on the driven coil.

As far as efficient pulse motors go,well it's like you said-->who is measuring efficiency?. Foot pounds of torque out for watts in,i would say an axial flux pulse motor would be the most efficient at converting electrical energy into mechanical energy.

More seriously politically incorrect death machines that you could get for your kids to have fun in!!!  And so cheap!  Even for 1969!

Quote from: tinman on November 07, 2015, 03:23:16 AM
I havnt watched TKs MHOP video's(i dont think),but yes,you can use the flyback to see switch off timing ,and if i wanted to see switch on timing,then i would just put an LED the opposite way around(and in series with the correct resistor)on the driven coil.

Well, hopefully one day you will watch them.  He does some neat tricks with an LED as a strobe scope - and shows you how to make a neutron bomb.

Quote from: Lidmotor on November 07, 2015, 03:01:47 AM
Patrick---the only reason I deleted your comment was because you have your YouTube reply button turned off and I didn't agree with what you said.  I sent you a PM explaining why.

Cheers.  Lidmotor

Nice try but you did not delete the comment, you muted it. So it appears to me it is still there but is invisible to everyone else, kind of sly passive aggressive way of excluding people. I would not have known if it was not for a friend of mine pointing it out in a conversation we had about the comment I made he could not see.


Oh, I have not received a PM from you. Also, there are plenty of people who reply to my comments all the time, I know of no method to "turn off a reply button" to my comments.
here's the comment I made:
"I'm always amazed how long you can run your builds off of a supercap. [/size]So, sorry to say this and please correct me if I misunderstand you someplace, but this is not JB's Zero Force Motor. I'm not talking about the build or some little idiosyncrasy that I'm getting hung up on. There is one reason this is not Zero Force. hint - if it was Zero Force, you would not be able to run it on that circuit you have there. cheers - Patrick"[/size]





[/size]

Patrick--
  YouTube has a funny thing going on with the comments section.  A friend of mine has the same problem with people adding a comment but there is no reply button to answer back.  I thought that I was deleting your comment not "muting" it.  Several videos ago you made a comment without a reply button and I sent you a message back then also.  The messages are at your YouTube channel.  There is a way to turn your reply button back on if you want.  The reason that I started to delete comments that offer no way to reply is that I thought that people were doing it intentionally.  I don't think that it is fair to post  comments that cannot be replied to.  Sorry.  Check your messages at your channel.  No harm meant.  We have known each other a long time.
  Here is a short tutorial on how to enable your YouTube reply button:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FpoLl9r2mw
  Here is a video by Ben (K4ZEP) from a year ago where you posted a comment also --with no reply button;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Su-v45BsFpI

MileHigh--
  Here are the 'Lads' with Maggie.  I have the Bruce Dern movie Silent Running' on VHS and have watched it many times. It is a classic.

Stefan suggested that I take a look at Ben's (K4EZP) pulse motor called the "Thomas Motor".  I vaguely remember it but I am going to build one up today and look at it.  He uses a  ferrite toroid cored coil with a permanent magnet inside the toroid.  Ben did a series of videos on it but this is the one that shows how it works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s7sM3csFHM
  As I read more it seems that TK you played around a lot with this ORBO type motor.  I guess this is another ancient history item that is just new to me.

Quote from: Lidmotor on November 07, 2015, 03:01:47 AM
I know most of you from quite a ways back so I thought that I would stop by and add what I have done on this project.  I try not to take this stuff too seriously.  Life is too short.  Milehigh ----Hewey. Dewey. and Lewey say hi.  All of them are still around.  Patrick---the only reason I deleted your comment was because you have your YouTube reply button turned off and I didn't agree with what you said.  I sent you a PM explaining why.  Tinman ---many thanks for that old magazine link.  I grew up on Popular Science and Popular Mechanics magazines.  We had a book shelf full of them.  You are right that we should probably put this project to rest shortly and move on.  JimBoot----always a pleasure to see what you are up to.  TK----I did some research on that 'Slab Motor' and got totally lost. 
   I adjusted the timing on my motor to where it runs much better now.  Here is where I ended up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65ZthhQOUkY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65ZthhQOUkY)
Cheers.  Lidmotor

Lid:

So great to see you over here.  I hope all is well over there.  I agree about the youtube comments being messed up.  Folks have posted on my vids and...no reply button.  I have even answered some folks and they pm me and tell me there was no reply button on my reply to them.  Who knows what is going on over there.

I still follow all of your work and look forward to seeing more of it.

Take care,

Bill

Hi Bill,
  When YouTube went to the Google Plus it just made life more difficult.  Some people got so frustrated with it they just faded away.  Speaking of that has anyone heard how Jeanna is doing?  I know that she went out in the wilderness a few years ago and built a small place.  Her channel is still up at YouTube but not much activity.

Quote from: Jimboot on November 07, 2015, 02:35:40 AM
My pulse motor consumes 60mw at 6000RPM. Pretty good for me :)

Well, if you are going to take away a nugget from my postings in this thread it's to try to develop some kind of framework for what you are talking about.  Your power consumption figure is meaningless without fleshing it out, creating a metric, something.  And it goes full circle.  That's why you have people trying to solicit money for fake free energy propositions not providing any hard or credible data.  They see what the discussion is like on the forums and they figure that they can get away with it and people will believe them.  Look at the case of GDS Technologies.  The guy puts out a statement that you can't get energy from water, and also puts out a statement that the alleged generator needs one liter of water every four hours of run time, but he doesn't explain why.

Lidmotor:

The first time I saw Silent Running I couldn't take my eyes off of the TV.  Then I had to go to my summer job and I missed the ending.  It was so hard to break away from it.  I read about it and it was shot on a decommissioned US aircraft carrier.  It was also ahead of its time for special effects.  You actually felt a loss when one of the robots gets swept off of the ship.

MileHigh

Quote from: Lidmotor on November 07, 2015, 01:24:19 PM
Hi Bill,
  When YouTube went to the Google Plus it just made life more difficult.  Some people got so frustrated with it they just faded away.  Speaking of that has anyone heard how Jeanna is doing?  I know that she went out in the wilderness a few years ago and built a small place.  Her channel is still up at YouTube but not much activity.

It's fun sometimes to make "naughty" Google searches and read the links.

Examples:

I hate Google Plus
The death of Google Plus
Demise of Second Life

And the king of them all:  I hate the Flash Player

Quote from: Lidmotor on November 07, 2015, 01:24:19 PM
Hi Bill,
  When YouTube went to the Google Plus it just made life more difficult.  Some people got so frustrated with it they just faded away.  Speaking of that has anyone heard how Jeanna is doing?  I know that she went out in the wilderness a few years ago and built a small place.  Her channel is still up at YouTube but not much activity.

Yes, I have not upload much lately over there.

As far as Jeanna goes, the last I heard what what you have said.  She told me no grid, no internet where she was moving to out in the woods so, that was a long time ago and I have no idea how she is doing.  It would be great if she popped in from time to time to say hello.  I hope she is doing OK out there.

Bill

Quote from: Lidmotor on November 07, 2015, 01:08:36 PM
Stefan suggested that I take a look at Ben's (K4EZP) pulse motor called the "Thomas Motor".  I vaguely remember it but I am going to build one up today and look at it.  He uses a  ferrite toroid cored coil with a permanent magnet inside the toroid.  Ben did a series of videos on it but this is the one that shows how it works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s7sM3csFHM
  As I read more it seems that TK you played around a lot with this ORBO type motor.  I guess this is another ancient history item that is just new to me.

I for one am very happy that you are posting here Lidmotor,and i always look forward to see what you have come up with next.

I have been thinking about what the best configuration of coil would be for a pulse motor,and i think it would be one where the run coil produces no EMF,but the trigger coil would have to-to fire the transistor. After watching that video you posted above,i think i have a design that will do just that. So im off to the workshop to try it out.

Looking forward to your findings on the above setup.

Anyway,here is my final video on the Zero force motor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsJIu4TELW4


Brad

Here is my quick build of Ben's 'Thomas Motor'.  I was able to get the motor to run with the coil windings parallel to the rotor magnets.  The small neo inside the ferrite made it possible.  No magic but interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB5qzs-zGLo

Tinman I was sorry to see that your motor didn't improve with the iron cores.  The whole geometry of this weird type of motor just seems wrong.   

Quote from: Lidmotor on November 08, 2015, 12:35:04 AM
Here is my quick build of Ben's 'Thomas Motor'.  I was able to get the motor to run with the coil windings parallel to the rotor magnets.  The small neo inside the ferrite made it possible.  No magic but interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB5qzs-zGLo

Tinman I was sorry to see that your motor didn't improve with the iron cores.  The whole geometry of this weird type of motor just seems wrong.   

Yes,it was interesting to see the iron cores had a negative effect,but the motor design is not very good at all. I think it's a case of the JB camp running out of new idea's ?,so there just throwing together anything that is odd in design but will run-even if very inefficient.

Im thinking the old vacuum cleaner (hoover i think you guy's call them over there)motor(universal motor) would make a good strong pulse motor--will have to look into that one.

Time to look at this version again from kEhYo:

Partial description;

"The stack of magnets behind the driving coil is in opposition to the rotor. When the driving transistor shuts off, the magnetic field from this stack pushes the rotor away from the TDC".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UlwdLXO3AI

"A Hall sensor turns on a MOSFET transistor on an approaching magnet to neutralize repelling force from the stack of magnets behind the driving coils that push the rotor at Top Dead Center when the power is off. In that moment the coil becomes a generator coil as the core (magnetite powder + iron powder + resin) switches polarity and returns much of the energy back to the battery".

Here's a picture of JLN's 2Sgen:

Lidmotor's power coil is generating it's own independent 2Sgen kind of power that is not a direct result of rotor induction: This kind of magnet core coil will self loop and charge it's own power capacitor!

Lidmotor has coupled three separate charging events in his new design: One, a flux alternator powering Maggie; Two, an internal 2Sgen type power coil event and three; A back spike collection from the rotor induced coil collapse. Last but not least, he employs the lateral "Zero Force" winding advantage. Lidmotor's "Power Hog" is blinding the camera! He'll need to camp out back if he self loops.   

Quote from: Lidmotor on November 08, 2015, 12:35:04 AM
Here is my quick build of Ben's 'Thomas Motor'.  I was able to get the motor to run with the coil windings parallel to the rotor magnets.  The small neo inside the ferrite made it possible.  No magic but interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB5qzs-zGLo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB5qzs-zGLo)

Tinman I was sorry to see that your motor didn't improve with the iron cores.  The whole geometry of this weird type of motor just seems wrong.   

Lid - thanks for the link I fixed it. It looks like anyone in my google+ circles was able to reply to my comments but no one else... yes, bad google merger... still you've always been in my friend/following circles so yet another mystery with the google system.
Now, I would have changed this long ago, I have never received a PM from you either in my youtube or google+ or even just comment on one of my videos to give me a heads up... I've checked and re-checked.  Also, just so you know once you mute one of my comments, you mute them all - you must have also gone back to some of your other videos I've commented on and deleted the comments as I have checked.
I'm finished on this topic  -


I'm not sure we can be so dismissive of JB's build as neither you nor brad have actually replicated his build. To me what you have both done is kind of like if the first person who invented a paper airplane typed up his story in a book some kid got ahold of the book grabbed some paper he had laying around, folded it up, threw it off a cliff, it didn't fly and then shout to the town below it doesn't work it's all rubbish!


you both are very talented and each have builds that run under 1mA, I think other than the geometry you note is all wrong, there are several other factors that you yourself could point to that are causing the high amp draw.


Oh - here's a little nugget, Peter's build is also plastic with no core.
I still do not understand the animosity, it's so easy to walk away from any one here who is unbelievable.
I hold no ill will, I'm inspired by many of both your vids and Brad's vids.
Thanks for sharing

Here's a video of the Heinrich Kunel patent replication:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNDQMMM7gJ4

Here's another one of neatpete45's videos: Watch what happens when he draws power from the power coil with his ferrite core output coil rather then the magnet rotor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebAgWBKrqrM

Toward the end of neatpete45's video at 3:25, we see a variation of Gadgetmall's "Piggyback Output Coil" that Gadgetmall claimed went Overunity!

Neatpete45's ferrite core output coil is generating power as a "Kunel" device from double duty use of the power pulse, not magnet rotor induction with the associated "Lenz Drag". Attaching ferrite core "Kunel Type" output coils to the sides of the "Zero Force" power coils should cheat "Lenz Drag" twice!

Lidmotor shows the inductive "kickback" frying the Reed switch on his Thomas motor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-GzKZvvw4A

@Lidmotor,

Wrapping the core windings bifilar and using one wrap for output like kEhYo's GAP coils, would help relieve this "Reed switch kickback" overload. Try 28 gauge for masking power entwined with 32 gauge for output.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxrJoGZy1to

Quote from kEhYo:

"There are 6 N52 neodymium magnets on the rotor, the driving coils are bilfilar in series, 2 in series, 4 Ohms total resistance and about 15 mH inductance together".

I wrote and asked kEhYo once about his coil wrap and his answer confused me, but judging from the GAP video it looks like the bifilars are perhaps Tesla series connected and in series with each other also, not separated!

Fusionchip's AKA (Gadgetmall's) first Bedini replication and "Piggyback Output Coil" looped selfrunner:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LczzeeyfFoA

Compare Fusionchip's "Piggyback Coil" with neatpete45's "Ferrite Core Coil Induction" combination at 3:25 toward the end of his video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebAgWBKrqrM

This combination is "Lenz Free" because it does not involve rotor induction but "Ferrite Resonance"; The output coil is "nowhere near the rotor"!

Imagine placing neatpete45's ferrite output coil directly behind his ferrite core bifilar Bedini power coil so the ferrite cores touch. This would then be identical to Fusionchip's "Piggyback coil" version, right? Now what would happen if you placed a second ferrite core output coil in the overhead position where neatpete45 placed the first? Would the addition of a second coil divide or multiply the power? Fusionchip uploaded a second video of two piggyback coils and proved they multiply the power! You could bundle those ferrite core output coils around the base of the power coil and hold them in place with a rubber band, and they would help reinforce one another's resonance!

I can tell you what would happen next; Milehigh and Tinselkoala would arrive and try to have the generator placed inside a bomb truck with help from the R.C.M.P.!

Quote from: synchro1 on November 08, 2015, 06:37:37 PM
Fusionchip's AKA (Gadgetmall's) first Bedini replication and "Piggyback Output Coil" looped selfrunner:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LczzeeyfFoA

Compare Fusionchip's "Piggyback Coil" with neatpete45's "Ferrite Core Coil Induction" combination at 3:25 toward the end of his video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebAgWBKrqrM

This combination is "Lenz Free" because it does not involve rotor induction but "Ferrite Resonance"; The output coil is "nowhere near the rotor"!

Great-they just discovered induction.

Quote from: tinman on November 09, 2015, 12:38:41 AM
Great-they just discovered induction.

@Tinman,

Probably watched some "Skycollection" videos!

Quote from: synchro1 on November 09, 2015, 04:11:13 AM
@Tinman,

Probably watched some "Skycollection" videos!

I have watched many of skycollections video's,and while he builds nice neat machines,he never really dose any P/in P/out measurements.

Quote from: tinman on November 09, 2015, 04:33:35 AM
I have watched many of skycollections video's,and while he builds nice neat machines,he never really dose any P/in P/out measurements.

@Tinman,

Very good point! Jorge's a skilled tinkerer who appeals to our intuitive reasoning rather then a schooled academic. He's shown us how to build his coils in the hope that someone with the precision scientific measuring instruments will help. Zerofossil fuel degraded him and caused him to take down all his videos for a spell. I helped cajole them back.

The concept is clearly demonstrated by neatpete45; Jorge maintains he has "Lenz Free" output coils. He's not talking about the pickup coil in adjacency to the rotor, but the coils behind it that generate power through induction.

Skycollection stacks at least four coils one over the other. He times the run of the neo sphere from a set of super capacitors. The addition of multiple induction pickup coils does not diminish the run time on the neo sphere!   

I am going to discuss the torque issue just for fun.

When people say, "My pulse motor has good torque" it's purely anecdotal and meaningless.  The other thing is that when your pulse motor is running at a stabilized top speed, the useful output torque is ZERO, which may come as a shock to some ardent pulse motor builders.

The challenge is this:  How can you come up with a way to measure your torque, and also more importantly, compare torque between different pulse motors on a level playing field?

The good news is that this can all be accomplished with a pickup coil and experimenting with different load resistors.

Imagine that you have a special torque measurement coil that is a bit larger in diameter than a typical rotor magnet but relatively short in length.  Let's call it the TM coil.  So the TM coil would resemble a small ring for your finger.

Here is a typical example:

Say your pulse motor is running at max speed at 3000 RPM.   Then you bring the TM coil and chosen load resistor close to the spinning rotor and then the speed stabilizes at 2700 RPM.  You measure the RMS voltage across the load resistor.

You have all of the information to measure how many watts are being dissipated in TM coil:  The RMS voltage across the load resistor, the TM coil resistance, and the load resistance.  Crunch the numbers and get the watts.

So, at 2700 RPM and "X" watts dissipated in the TM coil + load resistor, you crunch the numbers and you get the torque output for your motor.  Foot-pounds or Newton-Meters, it's your choice.  As you change the value of the load resistor the motor will change speed, and it's up to you to determine if the torque increases or decreases.  Is there a sweet spot for the torque?

Finally, you can then create a metric that is independent of the actual pulse motor build: torque per input watt.   Two experimenters can build two completely different pulse motors and compete in terms of torque per input watt.

Finally, the bonus round:

The TM coil is shaped like a ring for a very good reason.   Imagine the TM coil is wound around a small circular piece of wood in order to allow it to hold its shape, even when the Lenz force on it is quite strong.  The TM coil can pick up power from two sources, (1) the spinning rotor magnets, and (2) the pulses from the drive coil itself.

You don't want the TM coil to be picking up pulses from the drive coil itself, that will disturb your torque measurement.  So without the rotor spinning, you connect a signal generator to the drive circuitry for your drive coil and start pulsing the drive coil.  You scope the output of the TM coil (no load resistor) and angle it in such a way as to reduce the pickup of EMF from the drive coil to an absolute minimum.  Now when the rotor spins the TM coil will presumably be only be getting EMF induction from the spinning rotor magnets.

So, the challenge for all you pulse motor builders:

(1) Measure the torque output from your pulse motor and find the sweet spot
(2) Calculate your torque per input watt and compare that will your peers in a friendly competition

Get your creative juices flowing and start making some real measurements of the torque instead of making meaningless anecdotal statements about the torque output of your pulse motors.

MileHigh

I gotta buy one of these:

@Tinman,

Would there be any likelihood that you could build and test "Skycollection's" induction coil alternator to determine with certainty if the bifilar output coils actually multiply power or not?

Quote from: Atommix93rdAtom1 on November 09, 2015, 05:37:28 PM
The basic truth is simple ! Pressure of some kind needs to accumulate ! A delay negative or positive grows pressure and the energy for the gain is always from the spin of an electron which is at 5.5 million mph ! The energy of this is emitted from its event horizon and its continuity is its unified quantum state of entanglement with all other electrons in the universe !

Just play about with no formula for a energy gain is like looking for a needle in a galaxy ! The square of the charge is related to the square of the charged proton spinning in the nuclei closest to the free electron field. The charge of the protons is what keeps the quantum state of the free electrons active ! When making your so called Lenz coil you need to make sure its overall event horizon is a scaled up equation of the electrons you intend to feed off but to do that the harmonic of the feed out put electrons must be set up so it can migrate as a 5th note of the scale of the electron field! This will require that the gauge of the coil is off the correct threshold for this event to occur !   

The only other option is to set up a negative charge in the coil and feed from the electrons in the ambient ! Many people make these generators work by chance ! But there is no real standard for it beyond the one I have now ! given. 

See how the chart provided follows the chart that mile high has given ! All reactions are harmonic response and if you don't start to learn that you will forever be in the dark. I can levitate that Lenz coil and make it power a car a home anything you want ! 

So now you have the correct speed for the vector of the free electron in your coil and its a imperial number as all imperial numbers are harmonic ! If you keep on with this idea that what you read from some so called academic who has no idea of the quantum state for an electron you got no chance ! Any refusal to except these simple rules will result in events that will always have the wrong formulas to scale up the effect !

DO YOU FINALY SEE THE LIGHT ???????










 

QuoteDO YOU FINALY SEE THE LIGHT ???????

Yes-->you have been drinking too much.

Quote from: synchro1 on November 09, 2015, 04:51:04 PM
@Tinman,

Would there be any likelihood that you could build and test "Skycollection's" induction coil alternator to determine with certainty if the bifilar output coils actually multiply power or not?

You will have to point me in the direction off these induction coils,and what alternator setup you are refering to.

MOT secondaries make for great air core coils.
Much better than the Zero force motor setup.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flU687Vg0iM

Quote from: Atommix93rdAtom1 on November 09, 2015, 05:57:06 PM
I DONT DRINK OR TAKE DRUGS ... THIS WILL HELP !

The earth has a 360 hz harmonic thats because all its mass is in that key note frequency ! LOOK VERY CLOSE AT THIS !!!! Build to these laws !!!! ANY PROBLEMS COME IN TO MY ONLINE OFFICE AND YOU GET THE FULL UNIFIDE FIELD HARMONIC ARANGEMENT ...... But it comes with a simple NDA joint ownership an a equal vote as to what is to be done with it ! ? ! FOR REAL MR TIN MAN ! WHAT EVER AN ALIEN UFO CAN DO WE CAN NOW DO !!!! FACT !!!! COME AND GET IT ASAP !!!

Stop messing around ! This is really important ! Look at your Lenz coil and ask is it in phase with the geometry of the earth the moon the gravity field of this earth and with all its mass and charge ? If not than if you get one working it wont sustain for more than a few days ....... fact !!!!

Resistance is futile ........ fact !!!!!! now lets go give them pesky little aliens a run for there money hahahah lol

First you need to reduce the size of your pictures.

2nd-im guessing you have a machine working based around these principles you put forth ?-->one that you can show of course ;)

Quote from: tinman on November 09, 2015, 05:48:42 PM
You will have to point me in the direction off these induction coils,and what alternator setup you are refering to.

@Tinman,

Here's a video of "Skycollection's" multifilar alternator in oscillation. The two transistor oscillator circuit is very simple, and he supplies a detailed schematic in the video. A D.C. amp gauge and a switch for one of the LED banks would indicate either a drop in input or no difference when an LED bank were shut off:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qjMRuOSXBo

Here's a video on how to wrap the bifilar pancake coil:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvc-axQTaHM

Here's a question asked by "Lidmotor" from "Skycollection's" multifilar youtube video:

"I don't understand.  How are the six coils connected and how are the LEDs connected to the coils?  The basic complimentary two transistor circuit I am familiar with but the big pancake coil is the mystery.  It is very interesting but we need more information.  Thanks".

Zerofossil fuel asked the same question. The answer is: The coils are not connected. They generate power through induction!

Neatpete45's ferrite core output coil is not connected to his Bedini power coil either, but still generates plenty of power even though it's nowhere near the magnet rotor.

Quote from: Atommix93rdAtom1 on November 09, 2015, 05:57:06 PM
I DONT DRINK OR TAKE DRUGS ... THIS WILL HELP !

The earth has a 360 hz harmonic thats because all its mass is in that key note frequency ! LOOK VERY CLOSE AT THIS !!!! Build to these laws !!!! ANY PROBLEMS COME IN TO MY ONLINE OFFICE AND YOU GET THE FULL UNIFIDE FIELD HARMONIC ARANGEMENT ...... But it comes with a simple NDA joint ownership an a equal vote as to what is to be done with it ! ? ! FOR REAL MR TIN MAN ! WHAT EVER AN ALIEN UFO CAN DO WE CAN NOW DO !!!! FACT !!!! COME AND GET IT ASAP !!!

Stop messing around ! This is really important ! Look at your Lenz coil and ask is it in phase with the geometry of the earth the moon the gravity field of this earth and with all its mass and charge ? If not than if you get one working it wont sustain for more than a few days ....... fact !!!!

Resistance is futile ........ fact !!!!!! now lets go give them pesky little aliens a run for there money hahahah lol

The problem isnt building a self running or OU device.
The problems comes when presenting that device ::)

Quote from: tinman on November 09, 2015, 05:48:42 PM
You will have to point me in the direction off these induction coils,and what alternator setup you are refering to.

@Tinman,

Here's a video of "Skycollection's" multifilar alternator in oscillation. The two transistor oscillator circuit is very simple, and he supplies a detailed schematic in the video. A D.C. amp gauge and a switch for one or more LED banks would indicate either a drop in input or no difference when one or more LED's were shut off:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qjMRuOSXBo

Here's a video on how to wrap the bifilar pancake coil:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvc-axQTaHM

Here's a question asked by "Lidmotor" from "Skycollection's" multifilar youtube video:

"I don't understand.  How are the six coils connected and how are the LEDs connected to the coils?  The basic complimentary two transistor circuit I am familiar with but the big pancake coil is the mystery.  It is very interesting but we need more information.  Thanks".

Zerofossil fuel asked the same question. The answer is: The six bifilar coils are not connected to one another. They generate power in each other through induction from the single primary!

Neatpete45's ferrite core output coil is not connected to his Bedini power coil either, but still generates plenty of power even though it's nowhere near the magnet rotor.

Yes is correct.....only one group of the MULTIFILAR PANCAKE COIL is connected to the circuit, the other five groups of pancake coils they are "pickup coils", the group of pancake conneted to the circuit "induces" the voltage to the other groups, is just "inductive coupling effect" in my experiment i connect five leds and i can get light for ten minutes....!
This is an interesting experiment, my multifilar pancake coil is "a transformer" i used in other experiment, ferrite core in the centre of the coil and down and top of the pancake coil and i can get more intensity of the light, i have some videos with information of how to wrap the pancake coils.

@Tinman,

"Skycollection's" multifilar alternator has one oscillating power bifilar pancake coil and five (inductance powered) output bifilar coils unattached to each other. The question is; What would happen to the input if we remove three of the bifilar pancake coils and their LED's? Also what would happen to the input if we added an additional five output coils? Is "Skycollection's" oscillating inductance alternator dividing or multiplying power?

In the past i did an experiment with 8 groups of pancake coils, and i can "induces" the voltage to the seven  groups, i connected bulb of leds, i will post a new video with this experiment soon...!

Quote from: skycollection on November 09, 2015, 07:55:32 PM
In the past i did an experiment with 8 groups of pancake coils, and i can "induces" the voltage to the seven  groups, i connected bulb of leds, i will post a new video with this experiment soon...!

@Jorge,

Thank you! I need to correct your English, sir. Where Jorge speaks of "seven groups" above, he should really phrase it as a "Group of Seven"! 

He did an experiment with a "Group of Eight Coils". He then goes on to say he can induce a current in the "Group of Seven" bifilar output coils! The implication is awesome!

@Jorge,

En Espanol: Uno junto de ocho bobinas. Ocho juntos es incorrecto!

Synchro1, thanks for the correction, my english is very bad but the important thing is that the experiment with multifilar pancake coils is amazing...! in my last videos i built a "quadrifilar" conventional coil, is very simple, only four wire winding on a reel ...! In this coil i can "induce" the voltage in the same way of the pancake coils, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3krMGkeOME
This is an interesting experiment that everybody can do more easy, compared to the pancake coil, the multipancake coil is difficult to built...!

ELECTRON PROPAGATOR.....is a theory....? electron transport properties of a molecular electronically coupled to the electrodes is an important step to toward building a funtional device...!
If you have some practical application of the ELECTRON PROPAGATOR, please let me know how i can get in the real life...!

Quote from: Atommix93rdAtom1 on November 09, 2015, 08:54:32 PM
So its what ??? ? its not a generator ! Its got no power multiplying equation and all you got is induced voltage ! Its missing something hahaha ... Its called energy !  Try adding a electron propagator increase the kinetic potential of the electrons but letting them speed up on there own .. At this point its a toy motor or a toy transformer not a generator. You don't make energy by voltage alone no mater what you do with it ! Don't worry about your English I am a real English man minus the roman German and French influence. Numbers where are the numbers ? You put in energy and it makes the lights work ! wow hahahahahah  Try some physics ...

You can not make energy...period!  Please try taking a basic physics course.

Thank you,

Bill

Quote from: Pirate88179 on November 09, 2015, 10:25:23 PM
You can not make energy...period!  Please try taking a basic physics course.

Thank you,

Bill

@Pirate88179,

Surly you can understand how "Skycollection" has completely eliminated "Lenz Drag" with his motor alternator induction output coils. The output coils have no effect on slowing the rotor down. The rotor has no way to know if an additional induction coil is in positon and generating current or not!  There is no increased "Work Load" on the rotor from increasing the number of auxiliary output coils.

Steam punk logic would tell you that the bulbs should grow progressively dimmer as they increase in number, but they don't; They share the same luminosity!

Quote from: Pirate88179 on November 09, 2015, 10:25:23 PM
You can not make energy...period!  Please try taking a basic physics course.

Thank you,

Bill

Are you sure Bill?,or is it a case of !we dont yet know how to do it!
I mean energy had to come from some where to begin with,it simply didnt just exist for all time.
Lets look at water. Now most here will yell until there black and blue in the face that water is not a fuel. But if we take a mere 10 grams of water,and we split the hydrogen atoms within that 10 grams of water,we end up with an energy conversion of 616 billion joules of energy-E=MC^2. So you can see the problem here-->we have those that say water is not a fuel,and we have science giving us a formula to convert this non fuel into energy-616 billion joules to every 10 gram's. ;)

There is enough potential energy in 1 single person to level a continent--aint that a hoot.

Skycollection has simplified his alternator down to single wire pancake coils. What would happen if you doubled the load on the first induction output coil by adding a second light? Naturally the two bulbs would share the output. Now what would result from adding a second inductance coil with the additional bulb wired to it? Would the two bulbs then again share the output, or is it possible that the second wire coil might do work? 

Imagine a scenario where a second inductance output coil and bulb are added, the new bulb illuminates to equal intensity to the first and we measure no rise in input to the oscillator circuit and primary coil.

I believe that the pancake inductance output coils act as "Resonant Longitudinal Wave Receivers" and can stretch out forever generating power along the entire way.

Quote from: Atommix93rdAtom1 on November 10, 2015, 02:34:11 PM
Its good to see logic is coming to the rescue ! Who ever bill is he is right as for that system but if made differently it will become a very good generator !

Electron propagation for me is a day to day reality ......Its not a theory ! Its an effect of the quantum state of the electron or at least free electrons. Two understand this you will need to let go of what the standard understanding of the electron is and just for now try this construct and see how it fits in your own logic system of reality ! For me the truth of electrons is that there is only one electron in the galaxy ! And its kind of everywhere but not quite all at the same time as electrons have what is called the uncertainty principle as to where they will appear next and one needs to question the electron and ask it a personal question haha . What are you up to son hahah and it will say I am here there and everywhere, electrons like this can only mean one thing, there is only one electron !

So buy this one can consider a point in space time where the electron can freely demonstrate this ability and propagate its oneness at a point of concentration for the use of the production of pressure in an enclosed construct like that of copper wire. Now that would do some interesting things like the increase of amps in a stream of current ! Does it not rain on a river flowing to the wheel ? Yes it does so its the same thing and no different than raining electrons ahahahah

Would that end the so called energy problem on earth ? YES IT WOULD ! But this effect depends on that the universe will lend us these electrons or electron positions borrow them from the atmosphere by there path of entanglements and that is a time stream between each and every electron !

Would it be mad of me to say I am up for a deal as to sharing how its done and that I to have to pay my bills and not yet including bills bill hahahah hello bill hahahah .... Is it safe ? oh yes its the safest cheapest form of fee energy on the planet and so cheap its dangerous ! But we can not stop the flow of opportunity and creativity so I am here looking for minds that think in a logical way so as not to waist the rain that falls in my river hahahahah !!! I have an on line office with a small team and would offer an NDA via equal share and opportunity as a ethical deal ..............

But if you want it all for your self with no logical reason or plan than its a no deal situation ! My email !

protoneutrons@aol.co.uk ............. lol hahah 

@Atommix93rdAtom1,

Thanks for decoding every crop circle dating back to 1835!

@Atommix93Atom1,

You're from "Outside the Zodiac". I seem to remember you from the Filmore East on the anniversary of my 300th acid trip.

@Atommix93rdAtom1,

                                Beam me up to Yoda!

If this doesn't get us to Alpa Centurai nothing will:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdBNGpa_9Gc

I uploaded this comment to youtube:

"This coil consists of a group of six pancake coils, insulated from each other; One coil is connected to the circuit and the other five sandwiched in close adjacency to each other to generate power through inductance". Synchro1

Star Fleet Command Bulletin: Photon reactor on the "Fritz". Consult Skycollection's "Pentafilar Pancake" inductively coupled "Overunity Potential" thread for definitive test results.

Correction: Boarding Alpha Centauri special on time: gate-3B. Check Skycollection's thread.

Quote from: Atommix93rdAtom1 on November 11, 2015, 03:10:16 PM
Come back into the event horizon synchronic 1 hahah !!! Your not going to get off the ground like that son hahahah oh no you need the harmonics and for that each coil has to be the right coil and the right geometry along with some very special know how ! Gravity is like a ladder but each run of the ladder is at a different distance you cant just jump up to the top of the ladder and is why Hutchison can only lift he's iron ball a few feet and he is now well and truly stuck !

To learn this secret you need to learn the piano ....... ! Come into my office son and I will measure you test your harmonic response count every particle isolate your bio harmonic genetic code and than levitate you ! But you are going to have to change the arrangement of the coils and pump some negative juice into them ..... lol hahaha

Bulllshit!

Quote from: Atommix93rdAtom1 on November 11, 2015, 06:13:22 PM
Go play with leggo !!! and never mention a string of lights that reach from the earth to the moon again hahahah

@Atommix93rdAtom1;

Get off this thread. Start your own thread! You're off topic selling some kind of Con artist Crap!

With this experiment i will show you that is not "a trick" This video is very clear ...! is just inductance, is the inductive coupling effect...!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3NioI-m5EM
saludos from mexico...!

QuoteIf you were to add varnish to the coils and rub them hard with a warm silk cloth it will change the neutral charge of the coils to slightly negative extending the time line

No, this won't happen.  You are talking about electrostatics and static electricity, which has nothing to do with a coil in a pulse motor.  You can't simply state things like this on a whim, sometimes you have to keep it real.

Quote from: Atommix93rdAtom1 on November 12, 2015, 12:26:00 AM
Miles high come back to reality please ! lets add the quantum mechanics of it negative potential is an applied force just because its not in your box of experience its in mine which is out side your box of limitations. Also I did say best effect with a flowing current did I not ? Its space time equilibrium of additional force as the electrons will need to be re ordered along the wave ! You wont see that effect on the OS because its an increase in tension in the line of force ! Its like a wave made with a string or one made with metal same note same frequency different amount of force .... So !! Again please think out side the box please sir !!! SEARIOUSLY ONE WONDERS HOW HIGH YOU REALY DO GET ?

What lets all do it the MIT way hahahaha a bunch of beginners ! They are hardly quantum mechanics are they hahahah
Tritium is the mass of a static construct is it not ??? Did I say the word static ? no you did ! I SAID NEGITIVE ELECTRONS ..... So what's the connection ? How do you add 10 000 % more electrons in the coil with out static ? You have to re order the electrons in fact any order is better than chaos of a bunch of free electrons beforee the current hits !

I did say the stack of coils did I not AND IN THE ARANGEMENT WOULD NOT THE STATIC RISE UP AND DOWN LIKE A WAVE ????? NO ? YES IT WILL !

So than what ?????? remove the charge from the static as the current is in play and what happens ? negative electrons take the place of the tritium .... Never underestimate me sir ! But that is not the full treatment is it ! no thats just around an extra 20 % more mass in the field ! I did say 10 000 % more electrons did I not sir ??? Now you can not do that only I CAN DO THAT SON ....

And than the harmonics !!!! I remember we had a conservation about these before and you still don't understand them ! A piano is also a free energy machine if tuned right ......... hahahahah

So the coils need an up grade for the same price !!! Oh and finally the electron propagation to pick up the surge of the new peak in current ......... Well than !!!! lucky me !!!! Carrie on !!!! Go back to MIT GIVE THEM A COIL AND ASK THE TO FLY IT WITH no generator ! For that you need to be in the earth science team .... Now is tin man going to do the test or is your influence on him by remote control ?

Tesla did well with this effect !!!! But that was a very long time ago.... Nice leds any chance of boiling some water ? no !   

What bearing does this have on John Bedini's zero force motor?

Quote from: skycollection on November 11, 2015, 08:47:30 PM
With this experiment i will show you that is not "a trick" This video is very clear ...! is just inductance, is the inductive coupling effect...!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3NioI-m5EM
saludos from mexico...!

Skycollection tested the inductance oscillator with one, then five bulbs and timed the capacitor discharge. The voltage divided between the five bulbs, but the amperage remained unchanged. This implies that the number of possible inductance coil bulbs should be directly proportional to voltage, and that the amperage would remain constant regardless. A very efficient way to magnify power!

This is an overunity power plant.

This is a voltage quadrupler circuit:

The inclusion of this simple circuit would allow Skycollection to increase the number of coil bulbs to twenty with equal luminosity!

Quote from: Atommix93rdAtom1 on November 12, 2015, 12:26:00 AM
Miles high come back to reality please ! lets add the quantum mechanics of it negative potential is an applied force just because its not in your box of experience its in mine which is out side your box of limitations. Also I did say best effect with a flowing current did I not ? Its space time equilibrium of additional force as the electrons will need to be re ordered along the wave ! You wont see that effect on the OS because its an increase in tension in the line of force ! Its like a wave made with a string or one made with metal same note same frequency different amount of force .... So !! Again please think out side the box please sir !!! SEARIOUSLY ONE WONDERS HOW HIGH YOU REALY DO GET ?

What lets all do it the MIT way hahahaha a bunch of beginners ! They are hardly quantum mechanics are they hahahah
Tritium is the mass of a static construct is it not ??? Did I say the word static ? no you did ! I SAID NEGITIVE ELECTRONS ..... So what's the connection ? How do you add 10 000 % more electrons in the coil with out static ? You have to re order the electrons in fact any order is better than chaos of a bunch of free electrons beforee the current hits !

I did say the stack of coils did I not AND IN THE ARANGEMENT WOULD NOT THE STATIC RISE UP AND DOWN LIKE A WAVE ????? NO ? YES IT WILL !

So than what ?????? remove the charge from the static as the current is in play and what happens ? negative electrons take the place of the tritium .... Never underestimate me sir ! But that is not the full treatment is it ! no thats just around an extra 20 % more mass in the field ! I did say 10 000 % more electrons did I not sir ??? Now you can not do that only I CAN DO THAT SON ....

And than the harmonics !!!! I remember we had a conservation about these before and you still don't understand them ! A piano is also a free energy machine if tuned right ......... hahahahah

So the coils need an up grade for the same price !!! Oh and finally the electron propagation to pick up the surge of the new peak in current ......... Well than !!!! lucky me !!!! Carrie on !!!! Go back to MIT GIVE THEM A COIL AND ASK THE TO FLY IT WITH no generator ! For that you need to be in the earth science team .... Now is tin man going to do the test or is your influence on him by remote control ?

Tesla did well with this effect !!!! But that was a very long time ago.... Nice leds any chance of boiling some water ? no !   




























   

What test is that Haha?

This looks like it zero force!
https://youtu.be/k3GuD-Q4hts

Quote from: MorePowerEgor on November 13, 2015, 06:05:06 AM
This looks like it zero force!
https://youtu.be/k3GuD-Q4hts (https://youtu.be/k3GuD-Q4hts)

Oh come on. Ask yourself why the motor has to be positioned on the edge of the table, with part of it hanging over, and why that hanging over part "just happens" to be one of the rotor support columns. And the convenient bit of tape or paper hanging down, blocking the view just under the column.

There is probably a drive belt running up through the column from an ordinary electric motor under the table.

Quote from: TinselKoala on November 13, 2015, 04:41:00 PM
Oh come on. Ask yourself why the motor has to be positioned on the edge of the table, with part of it hanging over, and why that hanging over part "just happens" to be one of the rotor support columns. And the convenient bit of tape or paper hanging down, blocking the view just under the column.

There is probably a drive belt running up through the column from an ordinary electric motor under the table.

@Tinselkoala,

Thanks for pointing that out. I could've really got screwed on my exorbitant purchase offer!