Hi All,
this has been verified by an independant 3rd Party Test lab.
This Electrolyzer is generating 20 Liters per Minute HHO gas at just 500 Watts of input,
so it is way overunity.
Enjoy ! The future is Green !
This is the Green Machine from the FreeEnergyParty.org
Regards, Stefan.
Aren't you very (overunity) optimistic on your prognosis?
if that's true, then it should be easily able to run itself, off a simple fuel cell.
It's been a very long time since I visited this topic but as I seem to recall (someone correct me of I'm wrong), 100% efficiency was generally accepted to be somewhere in the range of 7ml/min/watt-hour. 7ml x 500 = 3.5L/min. The real question we need to ask is what exactly is this "sL" unit of measure they're using? Why was it not simply stated as 20 L/min @495W? Something tells me 1sL = 0.1L and the real output is 2L/min @495W.
{yawn} Next please.
Zero, 0.1l is also written as 1 dl (deci-liter, rarely used) and1 cl (centi-liter) is 0.01 l; cc would refer to milli liter (0.001 l). I have not heard of sl.
Quote from: memoryman on February 08, 2016, 12:59:51 PM
Zero, 0.1l is also written as 1 dl (deci-liter, rarely used) and1 cl (centi-liter) is 0.01 l; cc would refer to milli liter (0.001 l). I have not heard of sl.
Regardless, they're obviously playing games with units. What I saw of the cell itself was a bunch of partially interlaced stainless steel fender washers. Oooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhh! I'm so impressed. NOT!
sL/min- means standard liter per minute.
There is a non-standard liter?
Quote from: memoryman on February 08, 2016, 07:12:24 PM
There is a non-standard liter?
When dealing with gasses,then yes,there is a different between sL/min and L/min.
The sL/min is a corrected flow rate/volume that takes into account both temperature and pressures of the flowing gas.
Brad
I learned something new: thank you.
The test results showed breaking the barrier of the famous 1.23 volts. We will show the unit running on on a 3.7 volt lithium ion because it is handy but give a moment and next he will show a 1.22 Volt that breaks history or scientific standard.
But the inventor doesnt like to think of it that way,he is very humble.
He says he is just going to show something that is not supposed to happen. And he believes that God has shown the Free Energy Party as the way to move this into the open.
He is humble and genuinely good. He just wants to do good in this world.
He will show it ringing it and pulsing it with on the board voltmeters in and out
he will show the change of voltage and use outside gauge as well as the board to show that it is accurate. This electrolyzer atypically shows endothermic reaction not exothermic, it gets cooler not hotter...other electrolyzers get hotter and hotter..it will start a war of words and a debate.... I will be bombarded, but I am used to that.
THE GREEN MACHINE
Anything under 2.4 watt hours per liter is over-united according to David Wenbert using traditional water electrolysis and applying Faraday conversion ratios ..... 500 watts for 1 minute makes 20 liters. Per liter, that's 25 watt minutes. Next divide by 60 minutes in a hour, get 0.416 watt hours per liter. If you did the math, ie 2.4 divided by 0.416, there is room to prove overunity with overground demonstrations even with a Chinese gen set running on the order of 0.25% efficiency. But for home installations we will use the 90% efficient PEM fuel cells to power the home. If I have used any incorrect terms try to help rather than attack since the Independent lab says this is a world breakthrough lets work together without animosity.
I learned something new as well! If true, then this is indeed OU. However, considering the electrical configuration I am still hard pressed to believe what is being produced is 100% HHO. It is far more likely that there is boiling taking place creating large amounts of water vapor that is being lumped in with the total output. Not that it too does not benefit the typical ICE, because it does. Just saying.
your note regarding boiling is logically appreciable but apparently not the case sir, this is reportedly an endothermic reaction it would appear not exothermic so that the process gets cooler than hotter. We have more Independent Test Lap documentations to post ...
Dave from the FreeEnergyParty.org told us:
It is a world breakthrough efficiency in turning water to hydrogen.
It works via special resonance and pulses and and harmonics and special materials and special design,
breaks the 1.23 Volt standard for hydrogen production, because it can get it done at lower voltage.
It makes enough to run a motor , there are two larger units volumetrically a hundred amp alternator is
over a thousand watts which makes 40 liters per min of hho mixed in with air to
mellow it a hair and turns itself off and on ....yup
it is so incredible that a multi million dollar independent lab went over this running it for two days......
and it breaks a couple of records in history it appears
VOTE THE GREEN MACHINE FOR PRESIDENT!
Decentralize the grid, making the people the power producers will move the petrodollar
from the 1% back to the 99%.
The Green Machine will give you a new income selling power in a Reverse the Grid Campaign!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2l5Z9T_x8A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2l5Z9T_x8A)
Quote from: hartiberlin on February 10, 2016, 01:33:09 AM
Dave from the FreeEnergyParty.org told us:
It is a world breakthrough efficiency in turning water to hydrogen.
It works via special resonance and pulses and and harmonics and special materials and special design,
breaks the 1.23 Volt standard for hydrogen production, because it can get it done at lower voltage.
It makes enough to run a motor , there are two larger units volumetrically a hundred amp alternator is
over a thousand watts which makes 40 liters per min of hho mixed in with air to
mellow it a hair and turns itself off and on ....yup
it is so incredible that a multi million dollar independent lab went over this running it for two days......
and it breaks a couple of records in history it appears
far out.
ok, i guess this one will be being tested by a few others to add to its verification.
sounds promising.
thanx in advance if it works! lol
Quote from: sm0ky2 on February 10, 2016, 04:13:29 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2l5Z9T_x8A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2l5Z9T_x8A)
you might notice that video link is for a rap video.
cheers
Quote from: zorrotechnology on February 09, 2016, 12:19:28 PM
your note regarding boiling is logically appreciable but apparently not the case sir, this is reportedly an endothermic reaction it would appear not exothermic so that the process gets cooler than hotter. We have more Independent Test Lap documentations to post ...
Well, if true, I would love to see and report on it for my YouTube audience.
@somanywires
Quoteyou might notice that video link is for a rap video.
At least you weren't Rickrolled, that drives me loco.
AC
By the way, honorable sirs, the Independent Test Lab hot shots were sure this would fail the testing, and were so shocked at the repetitive data results would not show them any area of failure. After retesting and instrument callibration down to .oooo1 both before and after nothing showed out of calibration. They used half a million dollars worth of test equipment. It took three months for multiple experts to review and assess the data. Then they released results. Then the patent Office intervened asking certain secretive information on how it works not be disclosed in the patent but be removed so it would not be picked up by China, because it is a world breakthrough tech. They attempted to make them work for a DOE contractor and thereby give up control because there was approximately 22-38 uses in chemicals, pharmaceuticals , clean coal, cooling turbine bearings, etc. for immediate device applications with no mention of energy applications in large. The Inventor didn't want to give the tech to only be suppressed and controlled and is now offering it to the world and to the people by way of the Free Energy Party who is standing in to protect the people involved against illegal Monopolistic Restraint of Trade. We are running the Green Machine for President , we hope you vote for the REVERSING THE GRID AND MAKING THE PEOPLE THE POWER PRODUCERS in a decentralized grid instead of War over Oil as your current power producer.
Quote from: zorrotechnology on February 10, 2016, 05:33:58 PM
clean coal, cooling turbine bearings, etc.
Can you please elaborate on this part of your statement. Thanks
Quote from: hartiberlin on February 07, 2016, 09:40:59 PM
Hi All,
this has been verified by an independant 3rd Party Test lab.
This Electrolyzer is generating 20 Liters per Minute HHO gas at just 500 Watts of input,
so it is way overunity.
Enjoy ! The future is Green !
This is the Green Machine from the FreeEnergyParty.org
Regards, Stefan.
OMG REDACTED tested REDACTED at REDACTED in a Carport in the rain. THIS MUST BE REAL. It would not be possible for me to just type that up and print it on a sheet of a4 paper without any letter heads or anyway to verify it. THIS MUST BE REAL. Where do I send my check.
Quote from: zorrotechnology on February 08, 2016, 11:14:19 PM
THE GREEN MACHINE
Anything under 2.4 watt hours per liter is over-united according to David Wenbert using traditional water electrolysis and applying Faraday conversion ratios ..... 500 watts for 1 minute makes 20 liters. Per liter, that's 25 watt minutes. Next divide by 60 minutes in a hour, get 0.416 watt hours per liter. If you did the math, ie 2.4 divided by 0.416, there is room to prove overunity with overground demonstrations even with a Chinese gen set running on the order of 0.25% efficiency. But for home installations we will use the 90% efficient PEM fuel cells to power the home. If I have used any incorrect terms try to help rather than attack since the Independent lab says this is a world breakthrough lets work together without animosity.
Quotelets work together without animosity.
Sounds good. Post a schematic of the circuit,and i'll get straight onto it. Will have it built withing 2 day's,and verify your claim within 3 days-->that is if you really have what you claim ;)
Brad
of course I put the decimal in the wrong place .25% and meant 25% and anyone critical of the figure regarding a PEM fuel cell getting 90% instead of 50%, this has nothing to do with the GREEN MACHINE which is the lab tested world breakthrough electrolyzer. However , many companies and researchers are claiming this level of PEM efficiency: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleListURL&_method=list&_ArticleListID=-936147390&_sort=r&_st=13&view=c&md5=dc9ed8817b41918ab458de295d5100d7&searchtype=a
Brad, you seem to be Top Dog, but the Independent Laboratory used half a million dollars in equipment and verified it already. Posting a schematic wont allow you to make it work. The Patent office asked that certain things be removed so the Chinese would not copy this. Why? Because there are materials and processes that do not go into a schematic that are world breakthrough and documented by the most prestigious of Independent Lab Testing. So we dont need verification, I am informing you we have that at great cost and deliberation, however, if you would like to help with Underground Manufacturing (proprietary manufacturing to circumvent monopolistic restraint of trade) or Overground Demonstrations by the first Political party with a Free Energy Platform then lets do it in your area... that would be great.
Quote from: zorrotechnology on February 11, 2016, 08:13:15 AM
Brad, you seem to be Top Dog, but the Independent Laboratory used half a million dollars in equipment and verified it already. Posting a schematic wont allow you to make it work. The Patent office asked that certain things be removed so the Chinese would not copy this. Why? Because there are materials and processes that do not go into a schematic that are world breakthrough and documented by the most prestigious of Independent Lab Testing. So we dont need verification, I am informing you we have that at great cost and deliberation, however, if you would like to help with Underground Manufacturing (proprietary manufacturing to circumvent monopolistic restraint of trade) or Overground Demonstrations by the first Political party with a Free Energy Platform then lets do it in your area... that would be great.
I am happy to do some underground manufacturing,and once i have a completed device that i my self have tested and confirmed that your claims are legit,then i would also be open to demonstrating and promoting the unit here in Australia.
What i will not do is promote anything that i have not tested my self,and have data that supports the claims being made about the promoted device.
If that is agreeable by you,then lets talk.
Brad.
Here are again the complete claims:
THE FREE ENERGY PARTY WILL REVERSE THE GRID.....ALLOW US TO PRESENT ......"THE GREEN MACHINE" 500watts makes 20 liters per minute!!! Now we got it folks!
Anything under 2.4 watt hours per liter is over-united according to David Wenbert using traditional water electrolysis and applying Faraday conversion ratios ..... 500 watts for 1 minute makes 20 liters. Per liter, that's 25 watt minutes. Next divide by 60 minutes in a hour, get 0.416 watt hours per liter. If you did the math, ie 2.4 divided by 0.416, there is room to prove overunity with overground demonstrations even with a Chinese gen set running on the order of 25% efficiency. But for home installations we will use the 90% efficient PEM fuel cells to power the home.The test results showed breaking the barrier of the famous 1.23 volts. We will show the unit running on on a 3.7 volt lithium ion because it is handy but give a moment and next he will show a 1.22 Volt that breaks history or scientific standard.
But the inventor doesnt like to think of it that way,he is very humble.
He says he is just going to show something that is not supposed to happen. And he believes that God has shown the FEP as the way to move this into the open.
He is humble and genuinely good. He just wants to do good in this world.
He will show it ringing it and pulsing it with on the board voltmeters in and out
he will show the change of voltage and use outside guage as well as the board to show that it is accurate. This electrolyzer atypically shows endothermic reaction not exothermic, it gets cooler not hotter...other electrolyzers get hotter and hotter..it will start a war of words and a debate.... I will be bombarded, but I am used to that. By the way, honorable madams and sirs, the Independent Test Lab hot shots were sure this would fail the testing, and were so shocked at the repetitive data results would not show them any area of failure. After retesting and instrument callibration down to .oooo1 both before and after nothing showed out of calibration. They used half a million dollars worth of test equipment. It took three months for multiple experts to review and assess the data. Then they released results. Then the patent Office intervened asking certain secretive information on how it works not be disclosed in the patent but be removed so it would not be picked up by China, because it is a world breakthrough tech. They attempted to make them work for a DOE contractor and thereby give up control because there was approximately 22-38 uses in chemicals, pharmaceuticals , clean coal, cooling turbine bearings, etc. for immediate device applications with no mention of energy applications in large. The Inventor didn't want to give the tech to only be suppressed and controlled and is now offering it to the world and to the people by way of the Free Energy Party who is standing in to protect the people involved against illegal Monopolistic Restraint of Trade. We are running the Green Machine for President , we hope you vote for the REVERSING THE GRID AND MAKING THE PEOPLE THE POWER PRODUCERS in a decentralized grid instead of War over Oil as your current power producer.
P.S: 90 % efficient PEM Fuel Cells are also new. see here:
http://www.trenergi.com/media (http://www.trenergi.com/media/)
http://www.trenergi.com/video (http://www.trenergi.com/video)
Brad, my brother, The Free Energy Party hopes to further uplift the benchmark of Requisite Independent Lab documentation. When it is a very expensive Independent test lab we should respect that , however, we know that anyone involved in a deeper way wants to kick the tires, so ....of course.
Quote from: zorrotechnology on February 11, 2016, 09:10:56 AM
Brad, my brother, The Free Energy Party hopes to further uplift the benchmark of Requisite Independent Lab documentation. When it is a very expensive Independent test lab we should respect that , however, we know that anyone involved in a deeper way wants to kick the tires, so ....of course.
Will PM you.
Brad
Quote from: hartiberlin on February 10, 2016, 01:33:09 AM
It works via special resonance and pulses and and harmonics and special materials and special design,
breaks the 1.23 Volt standard for hydrogen production, because it can get it done at lower voltage.
This sounds remarkably similar to Bob Boyce:
http://www.free-energy-info.com/Chapter10.pdf
"Anything under 2.4 watt hours per liter is over-unity" i.e. 2.4 x 3,600= 8,640Joules/l
So, for 20l, less than 20l x 8,640J=17.28kJ is OU.
500W x 60s= 30,000Ws = 30kJ, far from OU.
Nothing is overunity until you can prove it is overunity in a self contained environment.
I have no idea why you would need 1/2 a million dollars in test equipment, just show your device can be completely powered using the hydrogen gas it generates and have additional power to spare. Connect the device to a fuel cell that is powered by the hydrogen gas the device creates, prime the fuel cell with a small amount of hydrogen, Turn the device on. Now let it run for 48 hours. This should be more than sufficient proof.
I guess you needed the test equipment because you had to plug your device into a wall socket.
The fact you can run your system on 1.22 volts input is irrelevant, anyone on here with two coils of wire can do that.
Until you can prove your device generates enough hydrogen to power itself all you have is yet another so called OU device that needs to be plugged in.
Well i emailed zorro,but as of yet,i have not heard anything back from him in regards to some sort of deal ::)
Another one for the bin i think?.
Brad
Quote from: memoryman on February 11, 2016, 12:46:04 PM
"Anything under 2.4 watt hours per liter is over-unity" i.e. 2.4 x 3,600= 8,640Joules/l
So, for 20l, less than 20l x 8,640J=17.28kJ is OU.
500W x 60s= 30,000Ws = 30kJ, far from OU.
Check your math.
David Wenbert.... has been making claims of overunity electrolysis since at least 2007, when he gave this interview on Peswiki:
http://www.pureenergysystems.com/news/Radio/Free_Energy_Now/shows/2007/Transcript--David_Wenbert--Water_Fuel_Cells_and_Electromagnetic_Overunity_Similarities.doc
where the quote saying "Anything under 2.4 watt hours per liter is over-unity" appears.
Also in that interview -- summer of 2007 remember -- is this quote:
QuoteExactly -- we call it the IDU, or Irrefutable Demonstration Unit, and it will consist of a 3 kilowatt portable generator – just an off-the-shelf Honda generator, running itself off of a water fuel cell. And the water fuel cell will be plugged into the 10 amp (12 volt, 10 amp) DC auxiliary circuit. So, it won't even be running off the AC. And we should be at that point in the next few months – it's just a question of building a final cell that incorporates everything that we've learned so far. Our findings to-date are generally posted on that page (at www.watercell.info (http://www.watercell.info/)), and if you look at the bottom of that page, there is a graphic showing the input waveform that the water fuel cell requires (from Stan Meyer), and above that, some oscilloscope tracings of the output waveform of the Joseph Newman energy machine. And you can see at a glance that they are virtually identical.
Unfortunately none of the websites associated with Wenbert in Sterling's article seem to be active today. And of course the "IDU" never materialized.
(And let's not forget about ETI in Austin..... who have considerable experience in testing electrolysis claims. Has the Free Energy Party contacted them about this?)
TK, kindly point out my error.
Quote from: memoryman on February 11, 2016, 12:46:04 PM
"Anything under 2.4 watt hours per liter is over-unity" i.e. 2.4 x 3,600= 8,640Joules/l
So, for 20l, less than 20l x 8,640J=17.28kJ is OU.
500W x 60s= 30,000Ws = 30kJ, far from OU.
2.4 watt-hours per liter x 60 minutes/hour x 60 seconds/minute = 8640 watt-seconds (or Joules) per liter
20 liters x 8640 Joules/liter = 172800 Joules (or 172.8 kJ) for 20 liters
30 kJ << 172.8 kJ
Wasn't it just last year that the Free Energy Party was telling us how Steve Spisak was going to Save The World from the Tyranny of Big Oil with his Overunity Motor-Generators? And how "independent testing" proved Steve's claims? How they couldn't proceed to further testing because of a broken solder joint?
And we saw in Steve's videos how he was somehow able to take a _current_ reading simply by touching two probes from his DMM across the wiring of the running machine, without breaking any connections?
Please refresh my memory on this, because I'm starting to lose track of things.... :'(
Thanks for the correction, TK. That darned decimal point keeps drifting...
Steven Spisak has not mentioned his project in months on FB.
the one man who asked about bearing cooling and other applications, this is from a list of applications gien by the industry speaking through the test lab, tho no mention was made of energy. The offer through the test lab was about a million but involved the inventor having to work for a DOE subcontractor, etc.
The comment by the man here who said the test results could be made up by anyone, two other independent labs have been given the non redacted test results and have confirmed the lab results.
With regard to the commenter asking about self looping....yes it self loops and powers a load, and we are preparing a video also
re the commenter asking about STEVE SPISAK. First background, The Free Energy Party does not make claims but insists on Independent Lab documentation. On a fundraiser to build the Spisak unit, Sue used my name and spoke with wording that essentially made claims, she is no longer with the Party. It took about nine months to build the Spisak unit , to rebuild it and to finally get it before Independent Lab verification where we learned that he committed errors in his instrumental reading methodology. His tech was put on a back shelf and we went on to review the Jessie Qmogen type device next and switched from there to Hydrogen technology tests. However, the test lab used in the test of the Green Machine is a very well known lab.
With regard to the comment re ...why was half a million dollars in equipment used when all you have to do is self loop it?.......because we believe in Independent Lab documentation and this is the equipment they used to take these all important measurements.
Other pages exist in the test lab report that we have not put up as well.
Eric Dollard speaks on work going on that seems to be related to this topic, I believe, here, starting at 1:38:00 --
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=lWoLH21ITys#t=5881
"...doing the hydrogen-oxygen separation dielectrically instead of by electrolysis, as far as I'm concerned, from what I've seen definitely works. So the situation is, is to work with the appropriate harmonic wave form. The harmonic wave form is the critical part. And act upon water as a dielectric and to separate them by neutralizing the intermolecular binding forces ...it takes no energy to break the intermolecular binding forces by that means. Electrolysis is a forced situation. This isn't a forced situation. It's kind of an unlocking situation. Now, the result of that is that you have hydrogen and oxygen separated, which desire to engage thermodynamically. Now when you go thru that thermodynamic conversion, that will give rise to energy. So, you have a situation with - potential situation - ...no energy required to break the water apart... "
Here's an excerpt from a comment I made TEN MONTHS ago about Spisak's "measurements" that were, at that time, presented by the Free Energy Party as supporting the claim of a working Free Energy device:
QuoteSo... how's that Steve Spisak project going? Got your solder joint issues straightened out yet? Can you tell me one thing: How is it possible to obtain a valid input _current_ reading by simply touching the probes to two terminals on an energized device, without actually breaking the circuit and putting the ammeter _in series_ with the current you are measuring? See the image below from Spisak's Facebook feed, or the similar test that Spisak performed in the YouTube video months ago for examples of this ...er... rather unusual measurement technique.
Now we are being told that it took some "independent lab" nine months to tell you the same thing-- that Spisak was not measuring properly .... Insert ROFL here!
So... two months ago Dave began blaming this statement on "Sue" .... why did it take so long, Dave? When I told you TEN MONTHS ago that Spisak's measurements were bogus?
QuoteMy name is Dave Parker and I am a candidate for President of the US representing the Free Energy Party. I am also the director of a non-profit corporation called The World Improvement Network, sponsoring this fundraiser in order to offer a tax deduction. Our entire platform is Free Energy, Natural Cures and Permaculture. We have a prototype generator, the Unity Generator to, become available soon. It is a QmoGen type of device and provides between 7,500 and 10,000 watts of power for your home, using no fuel, with extra to sell back up the grid. Compare the cost of this generator to the cost of ample solar or wind generation and your current power bills. You can pre order through our perks. Your contribution will help begin the elimination of the damage done to our Earth by the petrochemical industry, which seems hell bent on killing her for profit. This generator can quite literally end war over oil and environmental destruction such as fracking, which is destroying our drinking water.
[/i]
Dave, your credibility is nil. You can refer to "independent laboratory" results all you like, but until you post verifiable information as to who these "laboratories" are and just what they tested, how they tested it and what they actually reported, your statements continue to be "highly suspect" to say the least.
Look, Bill (Pirate) .... your 400 LED video made the Free Energy Party's list of Free-Energy-Proofs !
http://www.freeenergyparty.org/Free-Energy-Proofs.html (http://www.freeenergyparty.org/Free-Energy-Proofs.html)
It's too bad that your good work appears alongside a bunch of proven fakes, charlatans and false claimants.
EV Gray
Stan Meyers
Aviso
Rossi
Willis
Newman
Yildiz
Hutchison
Kapanadze
Heins
etc etc.
Oh well... blame it on "Sue"....
(I'm jealous... why didn't my "Cheese Power" make the list? ;D )
Quote from: TinselKoala on February 16, 2016, 01:47:47 AM
So... two months ago Dave began blaming this statement on "Sue" .... why did it take so long, Dave? When I told you TEN MONTHS ago that Spisak's measurements were bogus?
Dave, your credibility is nil. You can refer to "independent laboratory" results all you like, but until you post verifiable information as to who these "laboratories" are and just what they tested, how they tested it and what they actually reported, your statements continue to be "highly suspect" to say the least.
umm,... I'm going to try to state this in a way that you don't think I've completely lost my mind here....
I have always been stand-offish towards the QuMoGen model.
Ever since the chas cambell event (which I conclude started this fad). When we proved to Chas that his rolling ball mechanism would never work, he immediately switched to the Motor running a Generator.
Everyone knew this was bogus when he presented it.
And many others have taken the idea and ran with it, propagandizing all sorts of nonsense.
The whole QoMoGen social occurrence seems, at face value, to be a whole load of B.S.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We know well the laws of induction, and resistance, reactance, impedance, capaticance, voltages, current, and power.
We know this cannot work.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Two days ago, someone showed me something.
I wasn't sure where he was going with this information, so i patiently heard him out, and took a look at what he was saying... Preparing my rebuttal on the ropes, to pounce upon his b.s. with razor sharp talons.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Then i was forced to recant, and admit that i truly did not know.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What am i talking about?
Efficiency.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What do we know about efficiency, and what does it "mean" to us?
When we assume that 100% is the maximum efficiency of a system, or conversion process, or energy harnessing. etc.
What exactly does that mean? 100% of what? exactly.......
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I urge each and every one of you to consider something.
take this seriously, and do proper due dillegence in your investiagtions of human history.
science, technology, electronics, and the like.
Observe the discussions consering "efficiency".
What i tell you now, hereforth and whatworth, is this:
Systems of the days old, have improved in "efficiency" over the past 200 years, by MORE than 100%.
WTF?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do the math on this, and measure what you may.
An older technology motor, can be more than 100% LESS efficient than a modern day Generator.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
this sounds rediculously stupid i know,.. but it exists there in our history.
We have made such improvements over time, that to exceed our own perspective of "what efficiency is".
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What this means, or what we can do with it, i am not certain at this time.
But i can no longer dismiss the principal of a QuMoGem at face value.
And while i have never observed a "working" model of motor - generator powering itself.
Such is not inherently (or at least does not seem to be) impossible.
Now I think you are playing around with words and concepts.
Efficiency, as we typically use it here, means the ratio of energy INPUT to energy OUTPUT. So if a device actually puts out more energy than it takes in from all sources, we say that it is more than 100 percent efficient.
However, if some kind of device, like a generator design, starts out at say 40 percent efficiency (it only puts out, in usable form, 40 percent of the energy it takes to run it) and by improving various things you now have boosted its efficiency to 90 percent...that's a _gain_ in efficiency of over 100 percent !!! You have more than doubled its efficiency !!
However, you still can't make it run itself, because your actual overall efficiency is less than 100 percent.
And there is no way that you can connect two or more devices, each with an actual efficiency less than 100 percent, and wind up with something that is greater than 100 percent efficiency overall.
(Of course if you want to nitpick, every device is 100 percent efficient, because that part of the input that is not useful output goes into waste heat, vibration, noise, etc, all of which will total to 100 percent of the input energy when everything is measured and the sums are done correctly. My electric room heater is 100 percent efficient because it turns all of the energy it uses into... heat for my room!)
Quote from: TinselKoala on February 16, 2016, 02:04:37 AM
Look, Bill (Pirate) .... your 400 LED video made the Free Energy Party's list of Free-Energy-Proofs !
http://www.freeenergyparty.org/Free-Energy-Proofs.html (http://www.freeenergyparty.org/Free-Energy-Proofs.html)
It's too bad that your good work appears alongside a bunch of proven fakes, charlatans and false claimants.
EV Gray
Stan Meyers
Aviso
Rossi
Willis
Newman
Yildiz
Hutchison
Kapanadze
Heins
etc etc.
Oh well... blame it on "Sue"....
(I'm jealous... why didn't my "Cheese Power" make the list? ;D )
What does it say to you about a "political party" that does not engage in the study of political history?
Some of these devices and technologies presented in their website, are ALREADY adopted by our government.
What is the purpose of running on such a campaign?
Suppose I run for President, on the premise that I will offer rebates to under income citizens to help them buy Food.
your response would be "we already have food stamps" right?
Many of the valid "energy" devices on this website, are already listed publicly in federal contingency plans.
These guys did not do their homework, nor will ANY member of their party EVER become president of the United States.
Why? Because they are borderline retarted.....
Everyone who has ever gotten into a business, knowing nothing about it, and refusing to do their homework on the industry they are attempting to engage in, has failed!
(within a small handful of entrepreneurs who managed to blindly succeed)
Politics is no different from any other corporate sector in these regards.
With the slightest amount of funding, and the hiring of profession campaign management teams,
This sort of situation would have been prevented.
Quote from: TinselKoala on February 16, 2016, 02:28:13 AM
(Of course if you want to nitpick, every device is 100 percent efficient, because that part of the input that is not useful output goes into waste heat, vibration, noise, etc, all of which will total to 100 percent of the input energy when everything is measured and the sums are done correctly. My electric room heater is 100 percent efficient because it turns all of the energy it uses into... heat for my room!)
Fair enough.
So lets say I had a wild hair day and built a device that consumes 100 watts of electrical power and seems to output only 2 watts of heat dissipation and 10 watts of electromagnetic radiated (RF) energy. Trying and trying no one is able to account for the other 88 watts. If and I do mean IF this was possible, for just a brief moment, would you consider this device is transforming/converting known power into some unknown form?
Next question. Would you suppose maybe, just possibly, this process could be reversed to extract real known power from some unknown source?
I'm curious Tinsel if you still have the wonder, like a child to think something like this could actually happen; not in a dream state, but in real reproducible physical form.
Dog-One, matter and energy are interchangeable.
"this process could be reversed to extract real known power from some unknown source?" you better have some very good evidence.
Quote from: memoryman on February 16, 2016, 03:11:56 AM
Dog-One, matter and energy are interchangeable.
"this process could be reversed to extract real known power from some unknown source?" you better have some very good evidence.
Completely hypothetical.
I'm just curious as to Tinsel's viewpoint. Would he painstakingly attempt to track it down, or just give up and conclude it's not possible.
My reasoning for this line of questioning is simple...
If we are all chasing ghosts, then it's time to get off this crazy train and go do something else productive. Close down overunity.com and the hoard of other such forums and declare we tried, we failed. Otherwise, if there is still a glimmer of hope that nature may be wired together in a way that alludes our intellect, then we have at least a direction to continue forward with.
It's the difference between searching for a needle in a haystack and knowing with absolute certainty there is no needle in the haystack, period.
Quote from: TinselKoala on February 16, 2016, 02:28:13 AM
Now I think you are playing around with words and concepts.
Efficiency, as we typically use it here, means the ratio of energy INPUT to energy OUTPUT. So if a device actually puts out more energy than it takes in from all sources, we say that it is more than 100 percent efficient.
However, if some kind of device, like a generator design, starts out at say 40 percent efficiency (it only puts out, in usable form, 40 percent of the energy it takes to run it) and by improving various things you now have boosted its efficiency to 90 percent...that's a _gain_ in efficiency of over 100 percent !!! You have more than doubled its efficiency !!
However, you still can't make it run itself, because your actual overall efficiency is less than 100 percent.
And there is no way that you can connect two or more devices, each with an actual efficiency less than 100 percent, and wind up with something that is greater than 100 percent efficiency overall.
(Of course if you want to nitpick, every device is 100 percent efficient, because that part of the input that is not useful output goes into waste heat, vibration, noise, etc, all of which will total to 100 percent of the input energy when everything is measured and the sums are done correctly. My electric room heater is 100 percent efficient because it turns all of the energy it uses into... heat for my room!)
Yes you are exactly correct.
Now, what then if you compare a device from the late 1800's early 1900's, that was considered to operate at 10% efficiency. (compared to todays standards).
We then have a device in modern times, that operates at 60% efficiency, (that's 600% improvement!!!)
that's not really what I'm talking about here...
What I am saying is this...
We have certain values, and equations, that we presume are the end all say all of what a certain thing is.
This has not necessarily remained constant throughout U.S. history.
I can't pin one particular factor, as it seems our physics has improved drastically across the board.
what we thought was once, was not. and what we think now is closer to what is. (but still probably not)
Consider the way we define what we "use.
whether it is electrical power, mechanical energy, heat transfer, etc.
the standard approach is Energy per hour per square foot per degree Fahrenheit
Or if you are from anywhere else than the U.S. it is measured as
Watts per square meter per degree kelvin
This has remained the standard approach since the advancement in physics occurred.
What does that mean to "efficiency" ?
Well, in the linear examination of olden days, efficiency was measured as a factor of the linear distance
that heat was transferred through a medium.
This, translated into electrical energy, was measured in the linear perspective (like a solenoid).
rather than the exponential expression we use today (like a circular rotary device).
the equations were expressed as energy per hour per foot per degree Fahrenheit.
or as Watts per meter per degree Kelvin.
As we developed technologies that must be considered in multiple vectors:
We learned that energy could be expressed in terms of the Area, not just the linear consideration.
This changed the quantity of energy perceived.
Now we are finding that we can express this in terms of the cubic volume, so we must again reevaluate the equations.
The new equations will soon transition to an expression of consumption as:
Energy per hour per cubic foot per degree Fahrenheit
or in the metric world
Watts per cubic meter per degree Kelvin
We know this to be a necessary adjustment to our assessment of a quantity of energy.
This redefines what we consider to be the "BTU" and other energy unit equivalents.
Historically we have already adjusted this value to fit our current physical model.
By todays standard mathematical representation of "what is", we have already exceeded what was once though to be 100%.
And by tomorrows standards (there is still a debate over which theory to accept),
We will be able to exceed what we consider to be "100%" today.
This seems like a trivial point.
Because if we used to have 10% of what is now considered to be 30% of the total.
This 10% was really only 3%
What then now, when we have systems that are so efficient as to quote %'s above 75-80. (modest)
Let us assume that our current "100%" is only 30% if the next physical model of the universe.
Then our system that is 80% efficient, is really only 24% of the newly assumed "total energy" value.
hmm... so is that in the generation process or the consumption? I thought we already agreed these were equivalent.
I might be missing something, but to me this seems to cause a bit of an "issue".
If we had what we thought was 10% efficient, and we exceed ten times that amount, does not that violate thermodynamics? - They simply tell us, no, because the "total energy" is much greater than we once thought.
take a motor made of wrought-iron, from the early days.
compared to a generator of today's standards.
the motor has extremely high losses. most of your total energy is dissipated as heat.
the generator on the other hand can convert 80% of the motors output into electrical energy.
so, you lose 97% of your motive force, and another 20% of what's left from the generator conversion.
flip this around.
you have a motor converting 80% of your motive force into rotational power, and a highly inefficient generator that converts 3% of this 80 into electrical power.
so, we see by simply taking an "old motor" and connecting it to a "new generator"., or vice versa
we increase our losses, compared to a modern day moto-gen pair.
But when we consider what we thought to be the "total" value of our motive force that started this cycle,
what we find is that by including the second vector we are able to define rotational energy quantitatively in the direction of rotation.
Meaning, simply, that what we thought we were "pushing" in a straight line, energetically speaking ---
We can now do with the square root of that energy, by doing so in two vectors.
(looking at rotation axially parallel, this would be vertical, and horizontal)
There was a shift in our theory, during the period of enlightenment that brought forth the industrial revolution.
we change we way we look at things, from a bird's eye view, to a side view.
We can not only cause rotation from a horizontal impulse, we can direct that same impulse in the vertical vector, out of phase to the correct degree, and the result is E = E^2. <- this is not equivalent!!!!!!!
Now days we consider this new value to be the "real" E. And we use this in everything we currently do.
Let's look at this from the perspective of Heat energy.
We found that by including the secondary dimensional vector, we can heat a unit of water by an exponential amount by utilizing the outer surface area of the container, when the heat input remains the same.
(convection).
This was revolutionary, and redefined what we consider to be the unit of energy required to do so.
Now, we are approaching a shift to a more distance perspective, where we take into consideration, the forces
that are parallel to the axis of rotation, in terms of how they affect said rotation.
I am using circular rotation in my example here, because when you look at heat, I can't speak that situation in words...
the historical adaptation went from a linear heat transfer to a square area approach.
our current model examines the 3rd dimension as the absolute value of a half-multiple of the squared (area) value.
an actual 3rd dimensional approach includes a third exponential factor (cubic) (and an imaginary value)
and quite frankly, we aren't there yet in terms of scientific theory.
Though we know the necessity exists, there are discrepancies in the outcomes of any yet proposed mathematical approach. (OU?)
And who is to say that there are not 4th dimensional aspects to that which is around us?
as the scope of our knowledge increase, so does the "total energy" available to us.
Of this we cannot deny.
I forgot to conclude my proposition....
(sorry, sometimes by brainfarts get ahead of myself!)
With respect to the QuMoGen:
There are axially parallel vibrations that (could possibly?) add 3rd dimensional forces that are not accounted for by any current model.
Quote from: memoryman on February 16, 2016, 03:11:56 AM
Dog-One, matter and energy are interchangeable.
"this process could be reversed to extract real known power from some unknown source?" you better have some very good evidence.
Suppose I were to create a device like was suggested.
That produces more losses than could be accounted for by the system.
But were evident by the lack of energy output from said system.
There are two conclusions to be had:
either 1) The system lost energy in some unknown form
or 2) the system was storing energy in some unknown form
and by unknown I mean yet to be discovered form of energy transfer, be through some form of atomic, electric, or magnetic radiation, or unpolarized charge potential, or a temperature lowering effect that could be deduced as the inverse of "heat", or some other unimaginable effect of our reality.
What conclusions would you to be had of such a device??
Quote from: Dog-One on February 16, 2016, 03:31:11 AM
Completely hypothetical.
I'm just curious as to Tinsel's viewpoint. Would he painstakingly attempt to track it down, or just give up and conclude it's not possible.
I believe that TK would wholeheartedly reproduce any type of experiment that he thought worthy of his time,
and reveal the true and scientific results regardless of whether they agree or disagree with his own personal perspective of the universe.
of this I have witnessed
(mind you I don't always agree with his perspective, but he has helped me learn a lot)
The 'lost' portion of the energy is changed into mass.
Tinsel Koala , After 130 years of free energy suppression it was hard to locate an overunity tech that withstood Independent Lab Documentation. I do not have your expertise and only gave Spisak a chance to present his tech for verification on a backdrop of unruly and rude haters. Yes, Sue and I parted ways because she wanted to do things her way, when I told her that we DO NOT MAKE CLAIMS. We explicitly believe in Independent lab verification. Thank you for your intelligence in electronics and if more like you had offered in a kind manner rather than a mocking manner maybe it would have been recieved more readily. Yet, I appreciate you. The work we do is not easy. This technology has been verified by an expensive Independent lab that used elaborate methods over protracted time, this verification has been looked at by other labs, and by a US Congressman and the name of the lab and the name of the inventor is not available to the public which seems to be made up of trolls and agents and contrarians mixed with a few well wishers. We have further pages of test information if you would like to see and can provide a video also....but we provided this information as an announcement that we have in fact found a technology that will allow us to Reverse the Grid and make the people the power producers in spite of haters or detractors.
We believe we can use free enterprise to finance a device to go on your home and the financer will make money on a portion of grid buyback. this decentralization of the grid will begin to move the money from the 1% back to the 99% and empower people which are at this time treated like garbage. It is valuable to replace war over oil with people as the power producers. By the way , it seems that the development of a new type of PEM fuel cell is possible with the reversal of some of the processes in this new overunity electrolyzer .
We believe the demonstration of this tech will help show that oil can no longer legally be considered a "Strategic Asset" thereby justifying genocide and ecocide. As a political party we believe in using the 5.3 trillion dollars in oil company welfare subsidies worldwide annually to pay off debts and to invest in infrastructure. We do not believe in a Socialist answer, we believe in free enterprise paying for the Underground Manufacture and Distribution of this technology.
So, demonstrate.
Quote from: TinselKoala on February 16, 2016, 02:04:37 AM
Look, Bill (Pirate) .... your 400 LED video made the Free Energy Party's list of Free-Energy-Proofs !
http://www.freeenergyparty.org/Free-Energy-Proofs.html (http://www.freeenergyparty.org/Free-Energy-Proofs.html)
It's too bad that your good work appears alongside a bunch of proven fakes, charlatans and false claimants.
EV Gray
Stan Meyers
Aviso
Rossi
Willis
Newman
Yildiz
Hutchison
Kapanadze
Heins
etc etc.
Oh well... blame it on "Sue"....
(I'm jealous... why didn't my "Cheese Power" make the list? ;D )
Gee, I am suddenly famous. At least, I thought I was. Seems the link has been taken down. (404 error link not found) I went to the main site and it too is gone. Man, that was not even enough time to impress the ladies.
If it ever does get put back up, I think I will protest their use of my work as an example of O.U. As anyone who knows me knows, I have never, ever claimed O.U. nor anything like it with anything I have done to date.
Also, why didn't your Cheese Power make the list?
Bill
So far all claims of OU have fallen into 5 categories
1) The inventor deliberately falsified data for the purpose of misleading the public. They Lied
2) The inventor misunderstood the power consumption and or power created by the device. They are ignorant
3) The inventor didn't understand where the power source was coming from. New unknown energy source (osmotic, RF scavange, Radiation...)
4) Someone stole a persons invention and presented it out of context. The original inventor clearly stated it was not OU and never professed it was OU
5) The inventor created an OU device
Anyone who falls in category 1 or 4 should never be trusted again as they have lost creditability
Anyone who falls in category 2 or 3 who openly admits they are in error should have our trust and support (They learned something)
Anyone who falls in Category 5 - No idea it has never happened
Question what category does this one fall in ?
The Free Energy Party only honors Independent Lab Documentation, but began to set up categories in our search for historic or current proofs of Free Energy. In these cases we try to list them as; According to: ..............we are fully aware that people want to stone anyone showing non conventional energy sources. War over oil is ok but to call the wind perpetual or to call the sun perpetual or to call geothermal perpetual or to call magnetism or wave power perpetual is a reason to be knocked on the ground and mocked but .....of course....Perpetual War is ok. We are sharing with you an Independent Lab documentation of a new type of electrolyzer that breaks the current paradigm, the test lab was made available to the heads of Overunity.com under confidentiality. You would think people would like the potential for progress but the fakers and scammers have grown us to be sour pusses, but let us not kill Galileo were he to come along.
I understand people are really desiring answers and that it is psychologically hard to believe anything.....but this particular test lab was SURE they would be able to find something wrong....and they went over everything many many times and were simply shocked.....
So far, all you have done is talk: ranting about skeptics, oil conspiracy etc.
Saying that a particular lab could not find something makes no difference. DEMONSTRATE.
I said the Independent Test Lab could not find anything wrong and they were shocked at the results. An Independent lab documentation is a demonstration silly. The Free Energy Party is scheduling Underground Manufacture and Distribution and Overground Demonstrations at news conferences in front of Capitol buildings etc, but people will only doubt the self looping demonstrations. That is why exhaustive Independent Lab documentation is the best demonstration. Coming here has been a mistake, It seems that free energy forums are made up of energy breakthrough sour pusses who given the chance would talk any inventor of an overunity process into killing himself. lol .....I come here to report the wonderful news documented with Independent Lab third party testing and you are so used to bitch slapping hope and pissing on potential that you make it clear that supposed "Free Energy" people are the last ones we want to tell about a breakthrough. Sorry for sharing. I will leave you to your negativity. Good bye.
Not everyone on this forum is against any claims of major breakthroughs. You need to understand that every week several people come to this and other forums with nothing but claims and most have no idea what they are talking about. And a lot of them don't even have any idea how to make any real measurements or do any real testing. What you have claimed so far sounds much better than a lot of what we see here. Please don't be discouraged by those asking hard questions. They have just become hardened by all the false claims.
I believe you posted earlier that some of the members of this forum have been invited to see a demonstration. If that is correct then I will wait until I see their opinion before making any judgement about your claims.
Respectfully,
Carroll
Unfortunately for you sir, electrolysis of water has been studied by many clever people on here and it seems they can smell a rat. You want to win some election yet you hide the name of the multi million laboratory that apparently tested the instrument. Step one is to prove the test is real othewise please stop wasting out time. It was your clever idea to have the report as the foundation of your OU announcement, so it will be a very quick fall from grace if you can't prove its originality.
The name of the test lab and the inventor was provided to the owner of this forum. The Owner of a seperate test lab who now is on the Free Energy Party staff contacted the lab and cross verified the information. A US congressman was present during the actual testing. I am informing you the tech involves new discoveries that none of the rest of us are familiar with. The DOE thought there must be a sweet spot at 22,000 hz or whatever the mention was, but were informed that this was not the case at all, a new process is being used that goes beyond, pulsing and frequency sciences. We were simply sharing the tech but will continue to protect the identity of the inventor and the test lab unless you are part of our team or participating teams. What is now especially exciting is the hope for development of an equal efficiency breakthrough PEM cell by reversing the tech.
@zorrotechnologims
I certainly hope your claims are valid. I don't understand
your reasoning for not releasing a clear and completely detailed
exposition of the device.
It seems to me that a patent upon such a device would be useless.
Its a given that, control over any special materials that would be
needed to manufacture the device (if they are rare) is already in the
hands of the power elite.
Releasing such a device would at least make it clear to the world as to whether
those power elite are for the people or not.
If your thinking is for the free energy party to gain some kind of righteous
control, well think again. Control is not a righteous thing.
best wishes
floor
Floor
I like you , you, however, are wrong about how to handle the monopolies......they may or may not have broken into the lab and stolen certain secrets but ...other secrets in construction make it near impossible and .....they dont want to do it.....Underground Manufacturing and Distribution is the answer, it is naive to assume that 130 years of monopolist technological restraint of trade is going to be undone by open Sores-ing. Open Sores was a term invented by the computer industry to distribute software with the click of a button....however, Hope Moore copying the QEG tech and selling parts to plans that dont work for 9k or Keshe Open Sourcing plans which cost 8k where both dont work is an inadvertant or intentional attack on the credibility of Free and Sustainable Energy. Lets end war over oil with an Independent Lab documented tech but get at least twenty of them , or a hundred out there selling power back up grid and publish that , if you dont mind, it is not as if we have not welcomed people on this forum to participate in Underground Manufacturing to avoid the obvious Restraint of Trade of the last 130 years
Some web site links given in this discussion seem to lead to missing pages. Also the freeenergyparty.org leads to a page with no other info except to say the site is 'launching' soon. Are there any sites that have more info on the 'green machine' ? Sounds great but I would like more info. Is the green machine in some way related to or being built by Trenergi ?
@zorrotechnology
I work under the assumption that OU and / or free energy devices
already exist and that the powers that be are already in possession
of a variety of them.
I also think it possible that some of the "fakes out there" are there
simply to obfuscate and discourage. I don't see any other reason why
some of these fakes have succeeded in persisting / avoiding prosecution
for so long. May be some have had a little protection from on high ?
Are you kidding, "Stealing your secrets" would be easy for "them".
I still hold that open sourcing rapidly and accurately is the best
way to proceed. You may of course proceed as you wish.
again best wishes
floor
Video footage of the Electrolyzer is coming soon.
Here are 2 new pictures for the Reverse the Grid Campaign.
Stefan:
Thank you for the update. I am not really sure what to say about this, ha ha.
Bill
Well
I have some questions ?
Stefan
is the lab a credible lab ..is the report genuine ....have you spoken with anyone at the Lab?
I would like to call the Lab and speak with someone to verify the claim ? I worked all
my Life for and with test labs ,I am quite comfortable with this task,
and have Never had an issue verifying these types of Lab reports on the phone .
I will maintain the chain of confidence if need be
but would be glad to corroborate here.
?
thx
Chet
Quote from: ramset on March 11, 2016, 10:10:41 PM
is the lab a credible lab ..is the report genuine
Can't tell, but it looks bigger than a normal 8.5" x 11" document.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD0B5BIPy7M
:)
The last one of these I looked at wanted a 1/4 million; this one is after 1/2 million. Is there a pattern here?
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-reverse-the-grid-campaign#/
@Zorrotechnlogy is writing the truth, abolutely, for sure.
The revese the grid movement will save the world, who else, if not them.
The free enegy party is the party of the future, everybody can see that.
Everybody working with these grand people must be a good person as well.
I think @Zorrotechnology should write an e-mail to Bill Gates.
Long live chief Raoni of the rainforest,
Conrad
Dog
that's a hard act to follow !
on another note
whatever happened to these folks ?
http://ecogenenergy.info/products/
The test laboratory confirmed a sweet spot where at 382 watts 19 Liters per minute was produced. That is crazy overunity .....and the inventor is working on reversing the process to make the overunity PEM type fuel cell replacement. His knowledge is great in this area and I expect a paradigm changing replacement for combustion motors. By the way, the Free Energy Party stopped doing fundraisers because of people worried about us funding builds. In four years we only raised about 5,000 and havent taken a single dime in over a year so as not to arm the haters. I have been funding things myself instead. We went through quite a few devices but they did not withstand independent lab inspection. This one does, however. Will give you some videos soon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD0B5BIPy7M
Quote from: zorrotechnology on May 23, 2016, 01:56:40 PM
The test laboratory confirmed a sweet spot where ...
Forget it.
If they are not willing to publish themselves, then they are not to be taken seriously.
I would suggest that you demonstrate your equipment to the nearest university with a Department of Electrical Engineering faculty (Mech Eng would do) and ask them to test and publish. If it works, they will get world wide recognition and there may well be an opportunity for collaboration.
This technology is already in production. This is the video I took at the factory premises of the guy who financed Kapanadze aquarium 2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfWZVySL2RU
Paul R. with all due respect you are not the final voice. We dont have to go to a university, we have the report from a very large respected Independent Lab. We provided the name of that lab to a few people under a disclosure agreement. We dont need a University to do anything. We are launching the Reverse the Grid Campaign and selling power back up the grid, and we are selling hydrogen to industry. In the meanwhile the first political party with a free energy platform, the Free Energy Party will be demonstrating the tech in press conferences across the country. We would be happy to post videos for you but you pissy acting haters want to spread gloom and doom and negativity like you work for Chevron. Unless someone acts cooperative we are through here, I suppose if I wanted nothing but piss and spit I could have gone to Simon's henchmen to be mocked.........when you use million dollar independent labs and they give you results such as confirming 382 watts makes 19 liters per minute in what appears to be an endothermic process, getting cool not hot, and hydrogen is made at lower voltages that are supposed to be possible we want to just spit at that? I suppose our scientists in the group are more interested in rooting for war over oil than rooting for a non carbon answer that has been documented by a respected Independent Lab?
I remember when Wasif Kahloon posted a video of a magnet motor on the Free Energy Party and on other internet sites. The FEP site was not mean or harsh but hopeful, but when I went to other sites I saw that Wasif was being threatened with being beat up and with being arrested and all forms of name calling and abuse. I interrupted this sadism and emphasized that we should believe in Independent lab verifications and that whether someone is faking or not there has to be an atmosphere favorable for discovery, not an atmosphere where Galileo will be hung only to find later he was right. Insisting on Independent Lab documentation gives us a logical way to validate claims. Harassment has no place in it anywhere.
This forum is a manner of publishing, all the publishing in the world has not stopped war over oil. We need UNDERGROUND MANUFACTURING and OVERGROUND DEMONSTRATIONS BY THE FIRST POLITICAL PARTY WITH A FREE ENERGY PLATFORM IN HISTORY. NEWS COVERAGE IS PUBLISHING, BUT MANUFACTURING NEEDS TO BE PROPRIETARY OR CONFIDENTIAL MANUFACTURING TO AVERT ILLEGAL MONOPOLISTIC RESTRAINT OF TRADE.
There is not now, nor has there ever been, ANY 3rd party, documented and replicated free energy devices.
Not a single one.
So, your party is based upon something that does not exist. This makes it no different from any other political party.
Bill
Wasif Kahloon is/was a very obvious fake. I had a number of public 'conversations' with him in which he was very repetitive and elusive. After a while I lost interest and moved on to better things.
Dave, if you are referring to Simon Derricutt in "Simon's henchmen", then say so; if not, make clear who you mean.
Your party may be well-intended (or a front for the oil-cartel) but your P.R. can use professional help.
Btw, how are Hopegirl & company doing with their 'proven' OU resonance contraption?
I didnt say Wasif , who by the way was only standing in for the real inventor, had anything that works. I said , UNTIL WE TEST THINGS LETS NOT PUNISH INVENTORS IN ADVANCE. You twist my words. Steven Greer does not have any tech but he collects money. Searls own staff says the process is not overunity but they still collect money. Keshe will not submit anything to Independent Lab review and appears to be working with the CIA to associate "Free Energy" with weaponry, but he still collects money. Hope Moore got a tech from Timothy Thrapp and acted like it was her own and collected money having people build something they admitted did not work yet. Later she blamed conspiracy on being unwilling to submit the QEG to Independent Lab Review....and she continues to collect money. The Free Energy Party collected a total of about five thousand dollars looking over the world for an energy source but when confronting haters and attackers stopped any fundraising for well over a year. After four years of searching the Earth we finally found a tech that tested with Independent Laboratory proofs. We continue to work toward using this tech as part of a political campaign in association with several celebrities during public demonstrations.
snide memoryman, Hope Girl and Keshe and Searl never approached Independent Lab documentation and do not have technologies that have been proven.....and Proven, should mean independent lab documentation, or is proven when memoryman works for the oil companies and he says forget Independent Lab documention and give it to me to make an official statement? I dont think so. I am not collecting money, I dont need anyones approval. I came here sharing with Stefan's group a technology that has been independent lab documented...anyone with a genuine interest in working with the tech rather than pissing on it can meet the inventor and talk to the test lab but trolls can stick it. .....I dont want anything from you. btw, if you think I need help with PR, explain why almost fifty thousand people have joined our group and supporting me? It is because I have character and I am trying to do good in the world not just sit around with negative pissy psychobabble like some disdain filled naysayers against Independent Lab testing here on this page.
Such a miraculous and seemingly simple device needs to spread throughout the world via your 'followers'. Real devices, not dangled carrots. Any attempt to gather funding or political votes will destroy any credibility. Too many of these miracle devices are used for machiavellian purposes and should be scrutinized each time. Get real, replications going, that's if you care about the motto of this forum , which is about free energy for all, not patents, money nor control.
zorro, you are funny. Without knowing a thing about me, you claim that I work for the oil companies (I wish!). As to the other snide remarks, who cares. I never disparaged Independent Labs.
50k followers? Why don't you just join the Green Party?
We have an very good energy source in Thorium; MSR is likely the best way to use Thorium.
We don't need a 'free energy'. Their never was, is or will be, an energy shortage. Anyone with an understanding of physics knows that. Energy IS free; the generating, production, distribution is not. Nothing handled by humans is free. Why should it be?
Quote from: memoryman on May 25, 2016, 08:31:12 AM
zorro, you are funny. Without knowing a thing about me, you claim that I work for the oil companies (I wish!). As to the other snide remarks, who cares. I never disparaged Independent Labs.
50k followers? Why don't you just join the Green Party?
We have an very good energy source in Thorium; MSR is likely the best way to use Thorium.
We don't need a 'free energy'. Their never was, is or will be, an energy shortage. Anyone with an understanding of physics knows that. Energy IS free; the generating, production, distribution is not. Nothing handled by humans is free. Why should it be?
I was arguing with a neighbor the other day that claimed that "everything should be free." Then, he said, "no one would have to work." I pointed to his car and asked him who was going to build his car and he said...the auto companies would do that. I asked him why the folks at the auto companies should work for free and he said because they make millions. I explained that, if cars were free then they would not make millions, or any money at all. I asked him if he was willing to work for free and he said...of course he would not. I asked him stuff about where he would buy his clothes, and who would make them and then how would they arrived at a store, who would build the store...etc. if no one was getting paid. He told me that people would be happy to work for free.
I pointed out to him that he just told me that he would not work for free and he said, "no one should have to work at all." I said, except for the folks that make cars, and grow food, and work at the grocery stores, and clothing stores and auto companies...and he said..."yes, those people will have to work for free, but the rest of us will not have to work at all."
I am not sure exactly what his college professors are telling him, (he is a student) but I am pretty sure this is not going to work out like he thinks.
Bill
Memoryman and Pirate.........We can name our Free Energy Party, a legal political party, anything we want. We like Free Enterprise, we like Free Trade, we like Free Will, we like Freedom. Free Energy means from a Free Source such as the Sun or the Wind or the Waves or Geothermal, and if possible, sure , why not from gravity or magnetics or LENR. Thorium still leaves the monopolists in charge who are mismanaging us now. Do you think prices would go down with continued Centralization. The Green Party wants an elimination of money which is Soros finananced psyops to usher in national ID cards or microchip implants and they want the elimination of mortgages, which is also a Soros psyops to continue to usher in Feudalism by having only the wealthy own private property. With 98% of the pollution caused by the coal coverup wherein every short ton of coal has 1 barrel of oil and 3,000 cu ft of natural gas blow into the sky and the Vaporization Coverup whereby 60-70% of the gas you buy is blown in the sky, in this environment we need energy from a free source to end this pollution. I am happy to work with Tinman because he is interested in a better world by marketing breakthrough technology rather than gang banging and slandering hopeful tech that has already been Independent Lab Documented. Of course technology has to be paid for , workers have to be paid and distributors and maintenance and sales people have to be paid. We want to move the 53 trillion dollars spent annually world wide as "FREE" Welfare subsidies to big oil and start to use that money to clean up the planet. The Green Machine uses no Carbon whatsoever and only produces clean water . Dont you think rather than spanking each other over words that you would agree that Free Sources of Energy is better than War over Oil. Why dont you agree to support the FRee Energy Party in the "Reverse the Grid Campaign" where we will replace War over Oil as our energy producer with People as our power producers? Why not Power to the People by Power from the People. Why not Power By the People and Power For the People? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD0B5BIPy7M
zorro, as I pointed out before, you know nothing about me or others such as Mark Dansie, Simon D.
I am working on a non-distributing grid technology quietly and so is Simon D. Hint: it does not involve any of the things that you mentioned.
MSR Thorium reactors can be made small enough to be local.
You seem to feel under attack from us (revolution-green); I suggest that you give that view up, as it is counter productive.
Quote from: zorrotechnology on May 24, 2016, 02:05:59 PM
.....when you use million dollar independent labs and they give you results ...
... Can't you see that it is their name that is the assurance of excellence? If they are unwilling to reveal themselves, what does that say?
I'm not sure what you are trying to do on this site.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfWZVySL2RU
HHO: Let me explain what is happening in the video. On the table are components of the electrolyzer.
The electrolyzer splits water at a specific frequency creating HHO.
The HHO is mixed with waste oil/fuel.
Then this fuel has embedded HHO inside it as an emulsion.
This new fuel then powers an electricity generator.
The generator then exports electricity into the grid.
with a cheap electrolyzer we can produce cheaper syn-or hydrofuels ,
with or without Carbon or CO2 content or emission :
http://www.dotyenergy.com (http://www.dotyenergy.com)
https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2013095190 (https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2013095190)
the hydro-carbon fuel part could be based by biofuels,algae et cet. like the biomass-to-liquid sunfuel-process ( carbo-v)
No CO2 emission wished ? http://rexresearch.com/yurth/yurth.html (http://rexresearch.com/yurth/yurth.html)
" ....low-cost energy efficient device that eradicates all exhaust fumes produced by internal combustion engines before they leave the tailpipe. ...."
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/breakthrough-co2-technology-eliminates-vehicle-exhaust-fumes-at-the-source-300149468.html (http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/breakthrough-co2-technology-eliminates-vehicle-exhaust-fumes-at-the-source-300149468.html)
States Kevin Collier, CEO of Collier Group: "The system developed by Nova's design engineers can be retrofitted to the tailpipe of the exhaust system and powered by less than 20 amps of current. When we manufacture and distribute these units for mass consumption in the automotive after-market installation and retail outlets, no modifications to the vehicle's electrical system will be required. The Nova system will be compact, lightweight, low cost, and very energy efficient."
attention: http://torsionfraud.narod.ru/akimov_shipov_torsion_field/Torsion_Fields_David_Yurth.htm
Quote from: Pirate88179 on May 25, 2016, 10:46:01 AM
I was arguing with a neighbor the other day that claimed that "everything should be free." Then, he said, "no one would have to work." I pointed to his car and asked him who was going to build his car and he said...the auto companies would do that. I asked him why the folks at the auto companies should work for free and he said because they make millions. I explained that, if cars were free then they would not make millions, or any money at all. I asked him if he was willing to work for free and he said...of course he would not. I asked him stuff about where he would buy his clothes, and who would make them and then how would they arrived at a store, who would build the store...etc. if no one was getting paid. He told me that people would be happy to work for free.
I pointed out to him that he just told me that he would not work for free and he said, "no one should have to work at all." I said, except for the folks that make cars, and grow food, and work at the grocery stores, and clothing stores and auto companies...and he said..."yes, those people will have to work for free, but the rest of us will not have to work at all."
I am not sure exactly what his college professors are telling him, (he is a student) but I am pretty sure this is not going to work out like he thinks.
Bill
That's hilarious! Sounds like the mindset a lot of young people have now. What the heck are they teaching kids in school now???
Quote from: e2matrix on May 26, 2016, 12:51:08 PM
That's hilarious! Sounds like the mindset a lot of young people have now. What the heck are they teaching kids in school now???
Well, they sure are not teaching them how to read, write and do math, ha ha. I know the economy sucks right now and will for a while but, if you graduate college with $200,000 in student loans for a degree in European Women's Studies 1888-1905, you would have problems finding work in a good economy. College sure is not what it used to be...of course, neither am I, ha ha.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on May 26, 2016, 02:28:13 PM
...of course, neither am I, ha ha.
Bill
You gave me a moment of welcome humor, forcing me to confront an inconvenient truth.
Sometimes I realize that I NEVER WAS AS GOOD AS I USED TO BE :)...
CANGAS 233
QuoteI was arguing with a neighbor the other day that claimed that "everything should be free." Then, he said, "no one would have to work." I pointed to his car and asked him who was going to build his car and he said...the auto companies would do that. I asked him why the folks at the auto companies should work for free and he said because they make millions. I explained that, if cars were free then they would not make millions, or any money at all. I asked him if he was willing to work for free and he said...of course he would not. I asked him stuff about where he would buy his clothes, and who would make them and then how would they arrived at a store, who would build the store...etc. if no one was getting paid. He told me that people would be happy to work for free.
I pointed out to him that he just told me that he would not work for free and he said, "no one should have to work at all." I said, except for the folks that make cars, and grow food, and work at the grocery stores, and clothing stores and auto companies...and he said..."yes, those people will have to work for free, but the rest of us will not have to work at all."
Your post was very informative and thought-provoking. As a wannabee Lucky Inventor, I have been ambitious to discover a real over-unity gadget and help all of humanity in need of financial stability and comfortable subsistence. The ramification of a serious disruption to the usual global economy, and the inevitable reaction of the slave owning 1% has been on my mind for some time. And your point re "who will still do the work when nobody is forced to?" prompted me to extrapolate the consequences in somewhat more detail than I had ever done before. I have been to the mountaintop. It is good news and bad news. More bad news than I wanted to see.
Rather than divert this thread I will try soon to start a new thread in which I will lay out the best I can the blessings and the problems which will certainly fall like a hammer upon humanity when and if a good and real OU device is burst upon humanity.
Toto, we will not be in Kansas anymore. It will fit all the descriptions of the End Of Days as written in the Bible.
CANGAS 234
Paul R you asked why am I on this page? And you complained I wont tell the name of the lab. I informed everyone here that the admin of the group has the name of the lab and that we had another independent lab check out the results of this one.....now here are my answers. This is a free energy page , we have a free energy breakthrough it would seem. You , sir , are green behind the ears.... for the last year haters, trolls , and agents of hell have taken any and every single piece of information made public and used it to try to destroy the Free Energy Party. We are committed to Underground Manufacturing because after 140 years of technology suppression it is very clear that we are not going to go right into a Mother Bears cave and steal her cubs and expect she will not tear you to pieces. We believe in using free enterprise and having backers pay to put a home power generator on everyones home and be able to reclaim their money by keeping a large percent of the power sold back up grid. We believe in REVERSING THE GRID. We believe in replacing War over Oil with people as the power producers. We are here to discuss the tech and the plan but have not been able to do much of that because the Kill Galileo crowd are too busy stoning anything hopeful and looking high and mighty that they would spit in the face of a chance to save the world for their own children because they have become such self important Illustrious Potentates.
Before we go over the high voltage testing and discuss ways that normal hho production capacity can be increased , allow me to paste comments from the labs low voltage testing. This testing was recorded to be endothermic, not exothermic, temperature lowered by a degree or more , rather than raising as with normal electrolysis. enlarge the documents and read the comments regarding the 1.23 volt benchmark.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=985306844910085&set=p.985306844910085&type=3
low testing: 1.224 volts @ 0.03 amps yielding 0.13 SCCM
would this be enough with an adequately tiny jet to make an eternal flame from an earth battery source, etc , etc?
high voltage is not really high, no more than 2.17 volts and amps around 130 and bingo you have 19 liters per minute for 351 watts or so
Zorro would you please resize you pictures you are posting so they fit on the page. You can open them in the Paint program that comes with Windows and then crop them down to reduce all the wasted white area around them. It makes the page much easier to read if we don't have to keep scrolling from side to side.
For all you naysayers out there I have some information for you. Technology is constantly changing. When I worked in industry it was a well known "fact" you couldn't build an industrial laser without having a spark gap inside the laser tube. Everyone "knew" RF couldn't be used to fire a laser.
Well the Trumpf company in Germany built a laser using RF to fire the laser gases. This improved the performance of the laser by eliminating the pollution of the gases from the spark inside the laser tube. The RF made a much more efficient and reliable laser.
I seriously doubt the political party idea is going anywhere. The powers that be are not going to let that happen. But I also believe there is a strong possibility the technology being presented here is very real. I, like most here, hope they are able to somehow get it into the hands of the people.
Respectfully,
Carroll
Dear Citfta,
Thank you for your support. It is not as if we are asking anyone for money. And anyone thinks they are smarter than a million dollar test lab is being foolish. As far as the Political Party is concerned.....it is a way for us to change the expectations of all people. It is through Underground Manufacturing and Distribution that we hope to make the most salacious world improvement. Obviously people mocking us and deriding us are not going to be on an install list. To install a unit on your house that can get you off the grid and allow you to sell power back up the grid we are looking at backeres who will make much of the money on grid buyback , but you could back yourself too. So it is important to keep the players secret and get enough of them out there before press announcement....while doing overground demonstrations as a political party that is trying to help replace war over oil with people as the power producers in a REVERSE THE GRID CAMPAIGN ......and the installations are not only proprietary but part of an official Research and Development program so that the Electric Companies can not look past the grid tie.
I still think it didnt work, trying again:
https://youtu.be/kD0B5BIPy7M
Was the latest video of the Green Machine already posted here ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vL7lw5VB8E
Did the lab report test how much of the cathode eroded during the runs?
We are preparing new videos. And will offer you one with the gauges showing that closely match the independent test lab results.
re the attrition of electrodes. They were not able to record any noticeable loss of electrode over extended testing, there was a combination of things to monitor in that area, including the electrolyte and the actual electrodes. The electrolyte is non conventional and the electrodes are non conventional ......but for the one unit that produced 19 liters per minute at 283 watts it was estimated that the non conventional electrode array would not need service but the electrolyte would need to be replaced once a year at the cost of 17 dollars. We can discuss it more after we post the upcoming new videos ......but happy to discuss it now too.
Stefan, We would have done the videos with the gauges sooner but we had to move the inventors shop twice because of a series of problems including the loss of both his parents. Still we are trying to hurry and not to fiddle while Rome burns .....
running in series , regulated by diodes, 2.1 volts per cell comes out to 1.9 and a hundred amp alternator will power five in series to the tune of about 95 liters per minute, and of course instead of running small units in series larger units can be made. We will video some production at the 130 amp setting which is what worked so well and power up a resistive load in a closed loop. Then we will proceed to attempt to introduce the EPGS cell, the Electron Path Gas Separator to replace the PEM tech. This will give our REVERSE THE GRID CAMPAIGN A HIGHER EFFICIENCY UNIT WITH VIRTUALLY NO MOVING PARTS