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This seems like important topic.

Please do propose your scenarios.

Will Free Energy Device really bring us all peace or another war?

s.

Quote from: Silvije on June 06, 2007, 05:22:19 AM
Knife is for cutting bread or killing someone (hopefully not)
so who is to blame? The supposed killer or the man who made the knife?

Is knife good or bad thing? Now replace knife with a term "free energy device". will it bring peace or war?

I know this forum should be only about plans and circuits of such devices but if such device will bring us war than I will think about do I want to be a part of the whole thing.

This is proposal of my first scenario:

Free energy device will not change the world much, and doubtfully for better.
It will maybe take down electricity from the global market but that will not help poor people not to be poor any more. Why I say that? For example we can get electricity almost for free from the sun (there is investment in solar panels in the beginning). So why africa with highest insolation is the most poor continent? Why dont they use solar power and be the most developed part of the world.
Simple answer is who is going to give them solar panels? Exactly the same will happen with free energy device. Who is going to give them this device. Rich people will be able to build it for themself and to become even richer. Nothing else.

s.

Just one more thought:

I am not really convinced that this device will bring us any peace as long as we
need to collect prize money for it. There I can see gaining profit. The man who discovers
this should give it for free, not for a prize or a profit if we hope it to bring us something other than war.

Personaly I would be satisfied to release something like that in secret, so I could not even get famous. Why?

Fame, money, power, glory... it's a same old story...

s.

There is no such a thing as "free energy" It allways comes at a cost. I say that because that even if you was given the plans for such a device you would have to buy components to build it. You would have time and effort put into it. NOTHING IS FREE! even the food you consume while building it must be factored in the cost as your body transforms energy for the work.

The scenario.  Free energy device is released to the general public, manufacturers of electrical appliances, electronics and transportation, the sciences, and academia. they all incorporate it into their products and the world goes cordless, and battery less. fossil fuels would no longer be needed and the price would drop drasticly. Utilities companies would have to close up shop and shut down all the nuke plants. Everything that is manufactured after it would have it's own power supply built into it. Mankinds knowledge would be increased in leaps and bounds as the sciences and academia research the various by-products of the mechanism via design variations.

EVERYTHING can be used for evil intent. We are a warlike bieng and wars will be waged and triumphs and tragedies will allways be the result. to say that oil or nuclear ambitions will suddenly dissapear is a unrealistic expectation.  Good does still out weigh evil IMHO. 

ring_theory, you have made a few statements that I take issue with. I don't blame you for holding these opinions; they are pretty well embedded in our culture but they are disfunctional and do not reflect reality:

1. "NOTHING IS FREE!".  Hmmm... who do you have to buy it from? Where did they get it and how much did it cost them? Keep asking this question until you get to the ultimate source. If you don't arrive at free you will certainly have reduced the cost by cutting out the middle men. With most things that are worth having you should be able to arrive at a pure source: i.e. one where the person who makes the item does it just because they like to do it, for the 'love' of it. I know this idea is controversial.

2. "We are a warlike bieng".  This one is much more straightforward. Are YOU a warlike being? I certainly am not. Although I WAS trained to be (I was an officer in the Corps of Royal Engineers), it is not my natural state, which is entirely peaceful. I think if you examine your core, the source of who you are, and discard all of the conditioning you have been subject to (including the conditioned idea that you are a warlike being from a species of warlike beings) you will discover that you are by nature as peaceful as I am.

Lie out in the sun and tell me you are not receiving free energy.  It costs the sun nothing to do what it does naturally.  Cost is a fiction when things do what they naturally do.  It is created when we create the illusion that we 'own' stuff.  You may say "That is not how the world works." but I can tell you that I have studied the world in detail and you are simply confused: the world does work like that but society does not.

If you are so wrong about your nature (that you are a warlike being) then it may be worth examining the rest of the ideas you have about the world to see what else you have been conditioned to believe and how you have been conditioned to behave. Everything then turns on its head.  Suddenly you no longer have to search for peace because you discover that peace is always there until someone does something to disturb it.  Energy is free until somebody taxes it. War is alien to your nature until someone convinces you to take part in it.

I am not having a particular 'go' at you, ring_theory, these misconceptions are widely held.  If people came to understand their nature then energy would be generally free, clean and beneficial.

@prajna

Go to the grocery and see how much free is there. Go to the petrol station and see how much free gas you can get. When you get your electric bill send it back with a note that it is free, see how long you have service. I cannot even come to the free conclusion with even an apple. Low cost is definately the answer but still not free. The sun free to us but to extract it's energy is costly in the initial investment. wind, water the same way. allthough the source is seemingly free the equipment to extract it is definately not free. I am not recieving free energy from the sun our bodies are not capable of transforming the suns energy. Free skin cancer maybe. We are not knowledgeable enough to affirm that the suns rays are not at a cost to the sun. For the love of it?? BAH! FOR MONEY!! Don't think for one moment that my inventions were prototyped because i like to invent. they were prototyped for MONEY and the wealth that will be gained by their discovery. Well every piece costed and still continues to cost. So much for free, and again low cost is the result.   

Warlike. Yes i am a warlike bieng. However the wars we wage as individuals in society are vastly different than the wars that are waged by nations. My wars are of "words" waged against injustice, and abuse. Of these I will never waiver! Peacefull ofcourse as I said in my final sentence "Good does still out weigh evil IMHO."  Peaceful is in our nature but we are also warlike by nature.

"the true test of awesome power is the ability not to use it"-unknown. 

You will not succeed in discovery if you cannot think outside the box, ring_theory. The box, in this context is the socio-political box you have been conditioned into. The truth is that we can directly transform the sun's energy: that is how your body produces vitamin D.  You directly experience warmth from the sun too.  Have you ever stopped to think that the countries with the most sun use the least sun-block and suffer the lowest skin cancer? Perhaps it is not the sun that is causing skin cancer after all, but you have been convinced to think that by the box you are trapped in - the very same box that profits from selling sun-block.

If you ask the same question about money that I asked you to raise in the previous post - where does it come from - you will discover the most extraordinary thing: some folk just create it out of thin air.  Now that really is free energy!  Why should it be free for reserve banks and the federal reserve but incur debt for the rest of us?

I doubt you really are war-like by nature, simply angry that you are trapped by the box, which is also responsible for the injustice and abuse from which you suffer.  A war of words is not the scenario that a war-like being finds himself in; rather it is the situation that a chickenhawk excells at.

If you are really concerned about injustice and abuse then why do you insist on perpetuating it by just being into 'free' energy for the money and wealth?

Quote from: prajna on June 09, 2007, 12:27:33 PM
You will not succeed in discovery if you cannot think outside the box, ring_theory. The box, in this context is the socio-political box you have been conditioned into. The truth is that we can directly transform the sun's energy: that is how your body produces vitamin D.  You directly experience warmth from the sun too.  Have you ever stopped to think that the countries with the most sun use the least sun-block and suffer the lowest skin cancer? Perhaps it is not the sun that is causing skin cancer after all, but you have been convinced to think that by the box you are trapped in - the very same box that profits from selling sun-block.

If you ask the same question about money that I asked you to raise in the previous post - where does it come from - you will discover the most extraordinary thing: some folk just create it out of thin air.  Now that really is free energy!  Why should it be free for reserve banks and the federal reserve but incur debt for the rest of us?

I doubt you really are war-like by nature, simply angry that you are trapped by the box, which is also responsible for the injustice and abuse from which you suffer.  A war of words is not the scenario that a war-like being finds himself in; rather it is the situation that a chickenhawk excells at.

If you are really concerned about injustice and abuse then why do you insist on perpetuating it by just being into 'free' energy for the money and wealth?

"The box"?!? I have only been conditioned to suppress the physicly violent responce that is socially inappropreate. That is only successful to an extent as WE are warlike and highly defensive. No box here.  You may have been socially conditioned but don't assume that everyone else has been to the same extent. By "nature" we are capable of many things good and bad. history is proof.

Chickenhawk?? Really how is a chickenhawk supposed to wage a war of words? nevermind!

You don't understand injustice or abuse and i hope you never do. But if you must know the money and wealth is to be directed to fight the injustices with top notch legal teams, and deter future abuses.

The "free-energy" thing is the byproduct of resolving the original problem.     

       

Quote from: Silvije on June 06, 2007, 05:26:14 AM
This seems like important topic.

Please do propose your scenarios.

Will Free Energy Device really bring us all peace or another war?

s.

What I think will happen will be close to what happened to Internet.
At first it was a playground for nerds and not taken seriously. Then suddenly it gained so much power and popularity that nobody could stop or control it.

Same will happen when Free energy becomes avaiable to people at large. People wont need to live  in the noisy, crowded and polluted cities anymore. They settle in the country side and grow their own food in greenhouses heated by free energy. They will drive electric cars that will run for free and will never break, because there would be only an electric motor and 4 wheels in it. They won't have to worry about gaz, electricity and heating bills.

@ring_theory: who is this 'WE' for whom you presume to speak? I already told you about my nature: is is peaceful rather than warlike - I know because I have examined it in depth. If your nature really is warlike then go away and kill some other warlike creature. Then the ratio of peaceful people to warlike beings will improve for the better.

Is it not an injustice that justice should cost so much to procure? How, being part of a system where justice is so difficult to achieve, will demonstrating that fact do anything to deter abusers from abusing? Wouldn't it make more sense to look at how justice could be more easily obtained than to struggle at something you don't love in order to support a system that has not only allowed those abuses to occur but then makes it expensive, stressful and time consuming to address it.

The WE is every human that sucks in air. if you deny it than it is you that are living and thinking within a socio-political  box. with some delusional tendencies NOS. 

"Is it not an injustice that justice should cost so much to procure?" Yes it is. Injustice and abuse are two different issues. Yes it would however that's not the way it works in real life.

ring_cycle, you're nuts.  You don't even know your own nature; how can you know mine? I'll continue this conversation when you understand how the complex equivalence in your first sentence undermines your credibility.

Quote from: prajna on June 09, 2007, 06:39:03 PM
ring_cycle, you're nuts.  You don't even know your own nature; how can you know mine? I'll continue this conversation when you understand how the complex equivalence in your first sentence undermines your credibility.

Ring cycle yes true! Also true I am nutz! However you are also nuts! "You don't even know your own nature; how can you know mine?" I was wondering the same about you? credibility BAH!

One issue with delivering free energy to humanity is that if you choose a large company that has experience with energy provision to manufacture and deliver your product/s, then you are creating a major problem for them. This is because a power company, say one that makes nuclear plants, has made major investments and plans for the future which you are making obsolete. You are essentially throwing their money away. Your free energy device has to be so significant it has to annul any losses they may make on their other investments, and then produce a huge profit for them.

It is better to use a manufacturer that can cope with demand (and expand/outsource) but has not produced power generating devices itself.

There is still a risk that a genuine free energy device causes a massive and catastrophic impact on the stock market. For this reason it is actually better to introduce a device slowly. Don't make a big song and dance about it, just start making and selling the devices.

Word will get out, but just play it down as another alternative energy source like solar or wind power.

Deleted - Sorry, changed my mind.  Meant what I said, just didn't want it recorded here.       



 

The ideal free energy device would be a portable, hand-held device that could charge electronic devices such as laptops, cell-phones, electric cars, etc.  Larger ones - but still relatively portable - could power individual homes.  Whatever these devices are, they would have a tremendous impact on human society.

1.   many societal structures would be phased out: utility companies, oil companies, etc.
2.   the structures of urban vs. rural communities would have to be reconstructed entirely.
4.  there would be a mass migration of people from country to country rural to urban and urban to rural in response to a new period of economic transition that is a direct result of this new 'free-energy' device.
5. the list goes on and on

So where is this list?  In which thread on this forum can I find it?  Is there no such list on this forum?  Are you telling me that you guys have gone out and tried to create a 'free-energy' device WITHOUT making a list of these sociological implications?  WHY THE HELL NOT? 

Seriously, as a human being I am pissed off.  What are you people thinking.  I swear.  your 'science' will be the death of all of us one day if you don't wake up and realise what you are doing.

I thought there must have already been some discussion on this topic. Are you saying there hasn't been ANY discussion on this yet?

I am flabergasted!


Shocked.

Seriously, I can't get over this.

I'm going for a long walk in the forest now to think about this entire project of yours and whether or not I should associate with you people - people who obviously have such little regard for the value of human life and the future of the human race. 

@Prajna: we are not warlike nor peacefull, we are not determined, If you think we are, than YOU have been conditioned by culture, religion, society or education...
We choose each day what we will do and would it be for better or for worse. And it is lot easier to do bad things than to do good things. Doing good needs effort - build something, doing bad is easy, just throw a bomb and demolish. You put much more energy in your decision of beeing peaceful each day than someone who just go around and says I am warlike beware of my bombs. I congratulate you choosing peace and good today and fight the evil which wants you not to choose good. Lets hope all of us will choose goodand peace tommorow.

I agree with you there is a lot of free stuff in our world. Problem is when a man wants to make profit for himself by selling something that is not really his. So probably when we consume all oil, that bad man will try to sell us something else, eg. air which we needs to breathe. I am really suprised that one thing did not happen allready. Earth atmosphere is very damaged so lets build a shield around whole planet. To save us from bad radiation? No. You want sunlight? Pay for it! So if someone propose this shield it will be just for profit, you will have to pay you quota of sun per day. But if you dont want to pay a bad man for your sunlight, you will instantly die because of radiation. When I think about this I am not sure any more that this is not already happening. First you need to destroy ozone layer than build a shield and than collect money etc. So who knows... prepare your wallets.

I agree with your thinking about sun-block and skin cancer :) and also I think you just discovered free energy device! It is money printing machine :))

@ring_theory: i think low cost could be a good idea. but what does it mean? low profit or no profit at all? If it means no profit I agree, otherwise not. But mankind does not function this way. Lot of things today is just about profit. So if a free energy device becomes available, lot of people would be endangered by it. That device would be their destruction so thay have to fight it. Seen Farenheit 451? Firemen burning books. I am prone to think that will happen to this device. It will be forbiden. They will say it is not safe to use. It will destroy us all. Just when it happen I have a question for that people: who exactly is that "us all" who will be destroyed by using this device? Those who cannot have profit from selling energy when it becomes free? I think yes. But this way of thinking is also very dangerous. They might kill me just for saying it here.

Other thing, you are receiving free energy from the sun. Problem is you dont receive it in form you would like to. You would like electric current and you get light and heat. Funny thing happened to me. I was up last night almost until morning. At 5:30 the sun was out. So I am thinking do I need all the electricity I currently use? Some percent of it I surely use for lighting. Although I changed standard bulbs with energy saving, is it really the solution to the problem of my need for energy or should I start to change my ways of living to be more synchronized with nature.
So better would be that I wake up at 5:00 am every morning and go to sleep at lets say 8:00 pm which would get me more than enough of sleep, and I would not need power for lighting from 8pm to 24:00 like I do now. This i s just an example.
Are we all conditioned to stay up at the night to be good consumers or we really need to live it like that.

About your inventions: if you are driven by money and your personal wealth than I am worried about you. If you are driven with everybody's wealth than that is something else. Even if you get payed for your efforts.

@Newage: Growing own food is a good idea I agree. Some of us are already heating greenhouses with a free energy device. I like to call it a sun.
If I need some electricity no problem I have a solar panel. But problem is following: knowledge is here, we know how solar panels works and how to make them. And we are not making them, or buying them for that matter and the result is that we are not using them. why? why is just total of  0,00000something of produced energy coming from solar energy?

@dr.What: I agree, energy producing companies are not god for deploying this device because they are driven by profit.
I was also talking about this slow introduction of this device with my friends. We agree. My idea is if you say buy this device it is free energy device only few will buy it. Lot will not believe it they might think it is a scam. So you will sell few pieces and than man in black will come and found every last one peace and destroy it. Because this is illegal device. Almost like a weapon. You might kill the living of people making profit on your "need" for energy. You will became an article in a news papers and that is all. Second thing you could do is give the device away for free to everbody. OK that is not gonna happen because you dont have that kind of money needed for production of same device and also man in black could come and dress in various colors and you will give it all to them. And they will put it away. No one will benefit again.

So, my idea is to influence some big producer of consumer electronics. Maybe cell phones. To build in a free energy device in it. And not to tell enyone. Than when they sell billions of phones around the world they start an advertising campain in which they reveal the hidden feature. Just dial F for free energy :) and connect what ever you like to your phone. This will make a hard time for man in black to find and destroy billions of devices all around the world. Also this model of cell phone would be very good investment :) Great value for money.

About stock market you mentioned... we cannot know this. Production with lower power bill could in fact increase the profits. About market itself well it may show that current free energy device (money printing machine) is really a scam.

@Xenobard: The list of phased out structures is very long. We can call that structures men in black. Trust no one :) This list is just too long to write so better write very short one. List of who will not be affected. And yes, I almost forgot: grow up!


s.

Xenoboard and Silvije,

good comments, some I am not sure X if they are serious or in jest! But good all the same.

The reality is that there are so many unknowns. I like the idea of a secret introduction of the device in many products such as mobile phones. The problem is that the secret will be leaked out by employees early in the piece. Also a Free energy device may be quite large and wrt eg gravity motors they may be a stationary device affixed to the floor.

A free energy device is likely to be a generator in the basement of your house rumbling away. It would be the source of your home power and it will recharge your car overnight.

In Australia they have a program called  "The New Inventors" which airs once a week. A lot of people watch the show so a product launch on that show would be ideal.

But first steps first. The machine/device needs to be created first!

Silvije, that is a nice, well considered reply.

I do, however, want to reiterate my point about human nature.  In order to know your nature you have first to remove the influence of the social conditioning that you have been subject to. That conditioning operates on the mind which then influences the emotions. You might think that in order to escape the conditioning you would have to stop your mind, and indeed that is what meditation is aimed at. There are a great many meditation techniques that help to achieve a state where you cease to be subject to your mind, rather your mind becomes subject to your being.  It seems to anyone who has not achieved such a state that if their mind stopped there would be nothing, and for any intellectual that seems like a fools errand. The truth is, though, that when your mind stops you are left in your being, your pure nature, and you will find that it is full of absolute peace and bliss. I know this from my own experience. I have done it. My nature is peaceful. I know it for sure because I have experienced it, it is not a case of beliving my nature to be peaceful.

I know this sounds 'new age' and probably nuts but it is critically important for our society to drop the bullshit idea that our nature is warlike.  Who does such an idea benefit? The very same MIB who create the wars, suppress the 'green' technology, and control the vast but imaginary 'profits'.

If I had the idea that I am a peaceful person then I would have no more right to say that my nature is peaceful than ring_theory has to insist that his nature is warlike. But it is not an idea, rather it is knowledge from direct experience. I do not have to make decisions to be peaceful any more. I find it easier to do good things than bad things.  That was not always the case: before I came to know my nature through meditation (to 'know myself' as the sages have always suggested) I would very much have agreed with your idea that it is harder to be good than to just say 'beware of my bombs'. It might be more correct to say that it is easier to be subject to your conditioning than to emancipate yourself from that conditioning; practising meditation is not easy in the beginning, that is for sure.

Once you see through the lies that have been thrust upon you regarding your nature you begin to see just how much of the world, which seems so real, is simply an illusion; money being a case in point. The stock market, which people see crashing if 'free' energy is exploited, is simply a big gambling den when you get down to it. Look up 'commodities trading' some time if you have any doubts, and pay particular attention to 'futures' and 'options'. Anything connected with money - the economy, insurance, tax - it is all a big exploitative illusion.

Your fears are well founded, knowing human culture (note, 'culture' not 'nature'); already our water is being poisoned and polluted and we are then sold it in bottles. When Bolivia's water was privatised Bechtel banned people from collecting rainwater!

It is good that you are noticing how your lifestyle is affecting your need for energy. In my opinion you have less to fear from the MIB than from the overwhelming percentage of ordinary fellow human beings who have not noticed that yet.  The MIB will vanish when we collectively break our addiction to the consumerism which supports them.

It is a very big subject, the effect that free energy will have. It becomes considerably easier when our requirements for energy are reduced. I used to struggle for money but I now need so little that it is very easy to have enough. I wear very cheap clothes which last for years. It is no hardship for me because I am not a victim of fashion (which was a major hardship before I wised up). I am vegeterian, so I have a very small 'footprint' (it takes a small fraction of the space to grow vegetables compared to that needed to grow animals for meat). I pay no taxes because I don't take part in that crazy system, I don't charge money for anything that I do so there is nothing to tax. I gave away all that I had and now I rely on friends for the few things I need.  They, in turn, rely on me for various things that I like to do. Most people would find this quite an extreme way to live, but then most people do not know themselves.

In sum: free energy is important for the effect that it may have on the environment but far more important is the effect that it will have on our society. I really hope that it does destroy the economy, wreak havock in the stock exchanges and promote anarchy; at least that might encourage people to reassess some of the stupid ideas they have been indoctrinated with, beginning with the destructive idiocy that insists our nature is warlike.

@Prajna: It is nice what you are saying here but I don't share your opinion. This is what i know:
Besides my mind I also have one other thing. It is called conscience. That is gift from God. So I just might stop my mind but my conscience cannot be stopped. It helps me and you to choose good. That is why you think you know that you are peacefull. I am saying that we are not good or bad. What we do is good or bad. We are not much different in that matter from the knife or the fire. Both can be used to make a meal. And that is good. Both can be used to kill which is bad. Important is what you do, with yourself and with everything. When you say you are peaceful it sounds to me like you want to say you are not capable of doing anything bad (warlike). I am telling you something else. You are more than capable of doing bad things same as I am and you know it.

So what you are saying it does not sound nuts to me, just to some extent sounds wrong :)
Why MIB are doing bad things? Because they have poisoned their conscience. It is still there, but not loud enough
for them to choose good. Also we might add that there are people who think they are doing good but they are not really. So I allways ask:
If you say/think you are doing good, You are doing it to who? just yourself? others?  Our politicians often says: We this, we that... who are 'we' exactly I ask.

You also say that you have knowledge about yourself rather than ideas. I am not so sure about that.
Do you know the secret of life? Are you a supreme being rather than just a creation? How much can a creation know about itself and is it better than the knowledge of it's Creator? You also state that knowledge you have about yourself is empirical, from direct experience. I ask you what devices or measures have you used to scientificaly determine your peacefulness? Physics cannot accept emptying your mind for knowing something about something as a procedure of empirism or cognition. That is insane and unacceptable and very different from empirism. So you may have an idea of being peacefull, you may think it and even believe it but you cannot say you know for sure. If you can prove it. So you see you need to meditate little more on this subject.

I agree with you about the money and illusions. It is hard to live without them, because reality is harsh. Problem is that people are not aware of that. They even find their meaning of life in those things which is bad because reality strikes eventualy, illusions fall apart. Then you became really dissapointed. I've been there :) Now I am aware of lot of things I was not before, but I know that I know very little. Lets take small steps. First lets brake our own illusions, than lets brake illusions other people want us to live, and then help in liberating third people who are still living the illusions. This is getting really scary :) Do you wanna know what matrix is?

I have to add one more thing: MIB will never vanish, I know that for sure because I know something about them. They are not really just the ones which are supported with our consumerism. That is just one of their branches. And they do exist. And yes you have to fear them, or not. Truth is ordinary fellow human as you say, who do not see this is as good as one of them. Seen matrix? They are vessel for agents. I am not matrix freak btw but film is really interesting (first part any way). And they are around you, you are just not noticeing them. There is a way... Choose red or blue pilule :) Description of your way of living is telling me you chose the right one.

But than again I cannot agree with you about what you are saying about you wishes for destruction and promotion of anarchy which is bad.
This show us that you might not really be as peaceful as you thought. It just shows us that you might choose the wrong rather than right, bad(evil) rather than good, just like all of us. I persuade you not to make a wrong choice. And your conscience will tell you what is good.

If your target(goal) is peace, do you really think it could be achieved by another war? even against tirany which kills us all?
So people should in fact do as you said, reasses their ideas, but i dont think that they should do it with guns.

For my conclusion I ask myself: is fire warlike? is it peacefull? Hey, instead of fire I just may put the electric current. Hey I can even put myself into that question. am I warlike or peacefull? I dont know but I guess I am neither. Or lets say I am peacefull today because I havent killed anyone. What will be tomorrow? we will see.

Someone said no one can go against its nature. I say that is bull. You can do good as much as you can do bad. So if you are capable of both things how can you be just one of them? Talk about someones nature makes no sence. Prove that I am good, or bad. And I did both.

s.

If someone persist in saying he/she is warlike, it maybe just mean that he is simply choosing bad more often than good. But most important thing is you can change that. It is not easy but it is possible. You may go with the flow, that is easy. But that does not determine you. You can always choose to do the right thing. Problem is that it is not as easy than to go with the flow. So if you are going in wrong direction in life, stop and turn around before your conscience gets too poisoned to a state in which you would think it is impossible to get/do good.

I think people should be aware of this if it is right and I think it is. Before free energy device is introduced to public. Because it is like weapon, and if you think you are bad, angry, warlike and egor to crush something ... it is scary because it gives you the excuse to use this device for the worse, and you would not be guilty because it is just who you are... I repeat: It is not who you ARE. You will be guilty for doing wrong and there is no excuse.

Maybe one day will not be bad idea to introduce some education to people regarding free energy and such devices. You need education and licence for a gun, dont you?

s.

The whole point about "warlike" was to express that mankind is capable of everything good and bad. The technology no matter how peaceful ie, power generation, can and will be used for war. Without evil we cannot see just how good, good is. If we cannot see that we are warlike than we cannot revel in how peaceful, peaceful is.     

Low profit per unit. What is wrong with that? A guy has to make some money.

Silvije, it is very difficult to explain this stuff in exactly the same way it is difficult to explain happiness. You know when you are happy, it is unmistakeable, but to explain that feeling, or even to describe it in detail, is near impossible. You don't say of yourself "I think I'm happy" or "I think I'm angry," you are or you aren't. But these emotions, happiness and sadness, are fleeting things; they are subject to change. Your nature, on the other hand, is not subject to change; it is the one sole part of you that is the same as it has ever been and always will be. If you had a way to experience your nature rather than the state of your emotions or the ideas you have about yourself then you would know yourself. If you are sad then the real you is not the sadness, rather you are the container of the sadness; in the same way as a television set is not the programs that are playing across its screen. The ?you? that you really are, your 'being', is the container of your thoughts, emotions, memories, sensations, ... This is the part of you that great teachers insist you should discover and recognise as your true self.

My nature, my true being, (and yours, for that matter) is perfectly capable of containing both peacefulness and belligerence, but the container itself has a peaceful nature.  You will just have to take my word on this until you are able to confirm it from your own experience. When you do discover your true nature it is just as obvious and unmistakeable as knowing whether you are happy or sad.

I have a completely free choice to act peacefully or in a greedy, dominating manner; just as you or any other being has. But if I am in tune with my nature, rather than my conditioning, I will always choose to behave in a peaceful, loving way. It would make no sense for me to behave in any other way since in order to justify such behaviour to myself I would have to ignore my nature and subject myself to the limitations, vagaries and conflicts that are involved in mind-based, as opposed to being-based, reasoning.

The problem is that we identify ourselves as our mind, or rather, mind identifies itself as our self. This is an illusion which is the source of all of the illusions that we are so easily caught up in. It is only through meditation (so far as I am aware) that we can directly experience that part of us which is neither mind nor body but which contains both. It is made up not of conscience (a nasty socio-religious invention) but of consciousness. There is no danger of your consciousness being poisoned in the way that your imaginary 'conscience' seems susceptible to; it is incorruptible.  The MIBs don't have a poisoned conscience but rather they lack complete consciousness. Becoming conscious I recognise the harm I do when I do harm; I 'feel' it; I 'know' it in the same way I know when I am happy or sad. How could one do harm whilst feeling that harm at the same time? Conscience, on the other hand, is merely an indoctrinated form of guilt and it is hoped that people will prefer not to feel guilty. But people do things that make them feel guilty all the time; it doesn't seem to discourage them overmuch from doing those same things again. Where does 'conscience' exist? Examine deeply enough and you will discover that it only exists in your mind. If you are driven by your conscience then you are not the free being that you declare yourself to be.

You need not fear losing your conscience so long as you replace it with consciousness. I am pretty sure that you would not choose to carry out an action if you were aware of the harm that action would create. Even ring_theory, who is so indoctrinated as to think his nature is warlike, would not choose to do harm merely for the sake of it; he would have to justify his actions in terms of a greater good or, at the very least, in terms of some personal weakness or perversion. I may be wrong regarding human nature and it may be that there are some small number of human beings who, at their core, get happiness from doing harm but really I doubt that there are any fully conscious human beings who are able to do that.

Oh, and another illusion I wish to shatter for you: reality is not harsh but society certainly is. Reality just 'is'; neither harsh nor forgiving, in the same sense as when you insist we are neither good nor bad. Speaking for myself, I have discovered that reality is considerably less harsh than it used to be when I was caught up in all of the illusions called society, culture and tradition. Once I discovered that these things, which most people call "the real world" or 'reality', are not reality at all but merely ideas that people impose on each other, life became considerably easier and 'reality' became a significantly more pleasant place to be.

I'll leave all that 'Supreme Being', Creator/creation and secret of life stuff alone; it is all religious bullshit in any case. From a purely logical point of view, if there is a Supreme Being then it is the totality of consciousness in the cosmos and as such there is no being over which it could wage its supremacy.

Physics, by the way, doesn?t exist: it is simply a collection of ideas that are grouped under a label. What do I care what physics does or does not accept? It is not aware of itself; it is not conscious; it is not a ?being? in any sense of the word.  If you mean, ?physicists do not accept,? well, the same holds true: physicist is yet another definition. If we finally chase it down to ?some humans who define themselves as physicists don?t accept? then so what, most humans do not accept most of what I say because they are caught up in the matrix, the socio-political matrix and their own mind-matrix.

You can ?know? without mind.  Indeed, I would argue that anything you really know you know on a much deeper level than mind. It is the difference between ?knowing? 1 + 1 = 2 and knowing you can feel your big toe.  One type of knowing is purely intellectual and happens only in the mind whilst the other is something ?real? that you ?know? even when there is no mind. Most of us ?live? in the mind and pay scant attention to what level we know things on; intellectual knowledge is considered to be the same as (or often more important than) things we know by being conscious of them. This distinction is another thing that becomes more obvious as you become more aware of what is created in your mind and what exists outside it.

My experience is that when illusion falls apart there is a sense of relief.  When there is a sense of disappointment it is not an illusion that has been destroyed but a hope and expectation.

What I want is the destruction of the economy and the stock exchange and the rise of anarchy, exactly as I said. I do not want destruction for its own sake, that really would make me ?bad?. But realise that ?the economy? is a construction, part of the matrix, that prevents us from freely giving of ourselves.  It is a big illusion and a lie, which any conscious person would gladly be rid of. Anarchy, on the other hand, is the quintessence of freedom.  But you have been conditioned to react in precisely the way you did: to fight for the economy (seeing it as necessary) and to oppose anarchy (seeing it as chaotic and destructive).

If someone sees himself or herself as warlike rather than peaceful it simply indicates that they are still caught in the matrix. If someone sees himself or herself as peaceful it may or may not indicate that they are somewhat more enlightened than their fellow who believes the opposite of themselves; if they simply believe it then they are still in the matrix; if they know it unquestionably then they are at least on the Nebukanezza.

I am delighted that you are thinking, Silvije. Keep at it.

@ring_theory: I am delighted that you have depreciated the idea that you are warlike by nature. Next you need to learn that it is possible to be aware of peace without reference to war, that bliss requires no opposite in order to express itself. These are the limitations of language and the mind, where things are often defined by comparison with their opposite, but such is not necessary for consciousness, which is aware of what is without reference to anything else.

prajna, define BAH! why would one listen to or take serious a person that claims to advocate for peace?

Yet still claim "What I want is the destruction of the economy and the stock exchange and the rise of anarchy, exactly as I said. I do not want destruction for its own sake, that really would make me ?bad?. But realise that ?the economy? is a construction, part of the matrix, that prevents us from freely giving of ourselves.  It is a big illusion and a lie, which any conscious person would gladly be rid of. Anarchy, on the other hand, is the quintessence of freedom.  But you have been conditioned to react in precisely the way you did: to fight for the economy (seeing it as necessary) and to oppose anarchy (seeing it as chaotic and destructive)."

Advocating the fall of the financial institution and giving rise to anarchy, is advocating the warlike nature in mankind. also would be the reason why the so called free energy device cannot be just FREE. As i said before there is no free in free-energy. low cost sure but no free! Look at it this way when you buy the tv that has one of my mechanisms in it and you need not plug it in or recharge batteries for the lifetime of the tv. consider the energy free. as the initial investment of the tv purchase covered the cost of powering it for it's lifetime.

I figure less than $5 in materials per tv, laptop, cell or portable devices etc. If i make a dollar per unit than i would be quite happy with that given the scale of it in the overall sales. I don't think that's greedy. Nor do i think that that would be oppressive to the general population.   

BAH? It seems to be your favorite word, ring_theory. I am not sure what it means but it does appear to be significantly more eloquent and erudite than many of the opinions you express.

With 1.7 billion TV sets worldwide, I believe you may be able to live without too much hardship if you were to make $1 on each unit sold.

Quote from: prajna on June 11, 2007, 04:07:01 PM
BAH? It seems to be your favorite word, ring_theory. I am not sure what it means but it does appear to be significantly more eloquent and erudite than many of the opinions you express.

With 1.7 billion TV sets worldwide, I believe you may be able to live without too much hardship if you were to make $1 on each unit sold.

By definition http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/bah  ::) All of the opinions i express weither you agree or disagree with are based largely on fact.

Yes without hardship, and not to place hardship on others that buy the products my devices are in.  I really have thought this all the way through. starting with concept all the way through distribution and even reclamation. I have been considering the impact of it and IMHO have found a way to lessen the impact on the stock market By manufacturing units myself. off of the market you won't be able to buy sell or trade stock in my manufacturing industry. only the stock of the manufacturers of the componants the units are placed in will benefit via stock trading.

The real impact is going to be within the scientific and academic communities. That's going to be anarchy in it's own right.


   

Terry, I checked out the definition you gave me a link to and I find that 'bah' has no definition; it is merely an expression of contempt. You might use that same dictionary (since you appear to regard it as authoritative) to find the meanings of the following three words: eloquent, erudite, irony.

Further irony follows: If you have thought "all the way through" as thoroughly as you have thought through your responses in this thread then you will have that modest $1.7 billion in no time. And if people call you greedy I am sure that your $1.7 billion will help to mollify you.

I accept that your opinion is humble and based on facts, but the number of facts you base your opinions on seems to be inadequate to the conclusions you arrive at.  Take, for instance, your careful assessment and strategy for mitigating the effect your invention might have on the stock market: your analysis has failed to take into account something that will be obvious to most forum members, that in providing a free energy device - whether you manufacture the devices yourself or not - you will undermine all of the stocks connected to the provision of energy (electricity, coal, oil, every other alternative energy device, not to mention the vast investments in energy research).

Or BAH, if you prefer.

 ;D Actually it will be a trickle effect the Electric utilities, oil, coal, and natural gas will still provide as usual until more devices are implemented. It will trickle down till it is worth nothing. As far as their vast investments in energy research? BAH! They should have  invested their time and monies in solving the right problem. Now that's irony!

Eccentric may be the word you were looking for? You search circle, ring, unity, infinity, The dictionary is a tree of knowledge, come to life by the linking of words with simular or same meanings. Follow the links that suit your query.  8)   

@ring_theory: so you are saying that one cannot know how the knife is good (for cutting) until he uses it to kill someone? That is your theory about impossibility of knowing good without evil?! I strongly dissagree.

This is what is wrong with low profit per unit: that guy who makes it. Because he is not the only one.

1.Material will cost 1$
2.Guy who manufacture device will ask for 1$
3. You will ask for your 1$ because you invented the machine
4.Transport will cost 1$
5.Distributors will charge 1$ for their service
6.Government will charge 1$ taxes
7.even "green" will ask for their 1$ because this device is depleting earths "vacuum energy" or something  and earth may collapse...
...and so on

This already brings us to total of 7$ which is more than a lot of people will ever see in their lives! So how could you help them with asking your 1$. So you are making this device only accessable to the whealthy.

That is why I am saying it will work only with no profit. Low or high profit does what it does.

Prajna is right when he(I guess) says that you can be aware of peace without a reference to war... but this needs a further expalnation.. so I still owe him an answer.

And you are right when you say that we need stable market, as long as you demand your 1$ profit. If you would give up all profit you would not be that much concerned about the market. Also if the device is released, i dont think it would brake the whole market. Hopefully it will happen just to energy selling business.
People are not ready yet for completely marketless society.

You are very fond of your "low cost" idea, so let me ask you something: low for whome? low for what you think is low or low to the people dieing of hunger? Think about it. Sure your example with tv is fine but how many people in the world do not have tv? Those who have can surely pay their electricity bill.

s.

Quote from: Silvije on June 12, 2007, 02:41:39 AM
@ring_theory: so you are saying that one cannot know how the knife is good (for cutting) until he uses it to kill someone? That is your theory about impossibility of knowing good without evil?! I strongly dissagree.

This is what is wrong with low profit per unit: that guy who makes it. Because he is not the only one.

1.Material will cost 1$
2.Guy who manufacture device will ask for 1$
3. You will ask for your 1$ because you invented the machine
4.Transport will cost 1$
5.Distributors will charge 1$ for their service
6.Government will charge 1$ taxes
7.even "green" will ask for their 1$ because this device is depleting earths "vacuum energy" or something  and earth may collapse...
...and so on

This already brings us to total of 7$ which is more than a lot of people will ever see in their lives! So how could you help them with asking your 1$. So you are making this device only accessable to the whealthy.

That is why I am saying it will work only with no profit. Low or high profit does what it does.

Prajna is right when he(I guess) says that you can be aware of peace without a reference to war... but this needs a further expalnation.. so I still owe him an answer.

And you are right when you say that we need stable market, as long as you demand your 1$ profit. If you would give up all profit you would not be that much concerned about the market. Also if the device is released, i dont think it would brake the whole market. Hopefully it will happen just to energy selling business.
People are not ready yet for completely marketless society.

You are very fond of your "low cost" idea, so let me ask you something: low for whome? low for what you think is low or low to the people dieing of hunger? Think about it. Sure your example with tv is fine but how many people in the world do not have tv? Those who have can surely pay their electricity bill.

s.

A butter knife is good for cutting butter but would be close to useless for killing someone. It's not the knife that is good or bad it is the way it is used.

Lets face it 7$ is nothing compared to the $1000 you would spend on electricity during the lifetime of the tv to power it. So is it costing $7 or saving $993? $7 dollars tacked onto the price of a tv. Accessable only to the wealthy. Surely you jest??? It would be accessable to all.

The market will continue as usual. The only ones that will be adversely effected are the electric utilities, oil, natural gas etc and they will have to cut their profit margins way down in time to compensate for the decreased demand for their products as they are phased out.
     

@Prajna: Happines does not exist. It is just someone conditioned you to the feeling when nothing bothers you, that it should be prefered sensation, and called hapiness.

You are right though about nature. It is not subject to change because you don't have any nature. That is pure fiction. Nature would be what? Some state of existance of the object or subject? So what is the nature of the knife and the fire?
Oh, just people have their nature? ... yeah...right. As long as you claim you have peacefull nature, ring_theory have every right to think his nature is warlike. I claim there is no such thing. Your nature if exist is state or better to say a procees of constant choice: good or bad. You are not determined to any of this two. You have to choose.

Emotions you are talking about are just fiction. There is no sadness. At least if you are sad about yourself. You cannot be happy, at least if you are happy about yourself. If you are all those things, about other people, than it is acceptable. You should come to that eventually. Are you still traped inside the matrix? Saddness (of yourself) is conditioning of the MIB which has solely purpose: control. They control you, because they control your "emotions". Can't you see? If you seek for true emotions, seek inside, maybe you will find compassion as true emotion. I say that "emotions" which only have to do something with YOU are not emotions, they are rather an attack on you. That is egocentrism. Emotion must include someone other than myself. When I start feeling sad of myself I will know I am sick. Point is sadness and happiness are just in your mind. Not in some unknown part of you which you could experience just by emptying your mind.

You are your thoughts, emotions, memories, sensations. You are your body, soul and spirit. You have your antaryamin or dharmabuddhi even if you deny it and call it a nasty socio-religious invention. If you dont have them then you are an vegetable. If someone amputate your leg.. will you still be conscious? If someone amputates your hand... will you still be conscious? What part I need to amputate from you that will make you not conscious? If I remove your brain.. will you be conscious and have your consciousness? So my conclusion is that consciousness is in your mind. It is a process of being aware, having perceptions, thoughts, feelings and experience. Can you do it without your brain/mind? Is your toe conscious?
Is it telling stories to you? :) My body is a container, container of my soul and spirit. And what is important is content and not the container. But you claim it is all about a container... you are missing the most important thing than. Tv is not peacefull nor warlike, it is just a container and therefore unimportant. But the tv programm can be both. Teachers you follow conditioned you to know your container. That is called keep the important thing away from them, they will play with unimportant things and we will control them more easily. I dont blame you. I just want to encourage you to restart your quest and to find the truth by yourself.

My tv have no thoughts, it cannot reason. It is just the plastik, flesh and blood.
If I kick it it will not feel a thing without a brain. It cannot reason beiing-based, because reason is mind in fact. For any kind of reasoning you need brain. If it dont contain mind, it cannot reason in any way.

So perhaps you could and should ignore your "nature". Important is to know you are on a path or a journey. If you choose good you are on the right path.

When I said reality is harsh I ment of perception of reality with so much illusions.
And reality is 'real', not imaginary. Existance just 'is'. So don't be confused. You exist but are you living in a real world or the dream world? You say that whan you discarded this and that you have found your reality to be a pleasant place.. Was it realy reality? Was the life on a Nabukodanezza more pleasant than the life inside the matrix? MIB wants to please you to control you, life does not want to please you. Embrace your 'sufering' and eat this tastless protein shit.

So you want to leave all this "religious bullshit" by side because of your logical point of view? Where is this logical point of view coming from? Your conscious toe
or your mind? Just wondering...

If physics does not exist than you does not exist. You are simply a bunch of atoms and molecules grouped under a term body. And you have no soul. If you want we can go deeper quantuum. But before we do please explain how a bunch of atoms called Prajna can be conscious and have consciousness. Matter is not conscious, but the Word is, the Idea is, the Thought is, the Spirit is. So are the physicists caught up in the matrix of thought or you are caught up in a matrix of fictional conscious matter? Please do meditate on this subject.

Oh yes, about knowing you can feel your big toe knowledge, for which you say it is a real knowledge on a deeper level than mind.. please explain why are people with amputated limbs have feeling of fantom limbs. If this feeling of your parts is a real knowledge as you say, shouldn't they know that the legs are gone? You pay too much attention to the sensation (drug adicts do that also)... and to a container
(are you medical surgeon maybe? ) so you dont see the important. What could you possibly 'know' without your mind? Except that your mind left :) and you are just a coprse now. So this what you are experiencing, it is not 'counciousness' as a sensation... you just experienced the existance of your spirit and not just the body. And your spirit is real rather than just a sensation of consciousness

Hope is not destructable, neither is expectation. Expectation can be fullfiled or not but cannot be destroyed. When illusion falls apart there is a train of sensations which interchange and the relief is just umong last of them. Dissapointment comes before relief. So don't be confused.

Economy IS a part of the matrix, but important is you cannot just unplug everyone (destroy economy) before they are ready because they will surely die. You have to offer them a red and a blue pill and if they choose right find them with Nabukadonezza first.. if you dont, they would drown. Anarchy would not help this either. Few of the liberated would not care about liberating the others, they would road rage around the breeding facility in their ship in the false perception of freedom. Education seems like a lot better idea to me. Lets educate more liberated troops who will help in liberating others. The real freedom will be experianced when every last one of them who is breathing and is fed through a tube in a harvesting bath tub is set free. Not before, because personal freedom is just conditioned sensation, a mask pulled in front of your eyes to hide the trouth. MIB whant you to think you are free but you are not. They know your every step. But follow the white rabbit.

Anarchy will fail because it is something what is going on in their teritory, and MIB are more powerfull than average fellow human. Instead you should exit their teritory and fight in your own. Until you do that anarchy will just get you killed, not liberated.

I am thinking, my dear Prajna, but with my mind ... not with my conscious toes.

All be patient, we just might end with a solid plan of introducing FED(free energy device) to the humanity with no casualties at all.


s.

Quote from: ring_theory on June 12, 2007, 03:52:30 AM

A butter knife is good for cutting butter but would be close to useless for killing someone. It's not the knife that is good or bad it is the way it is used.

Yes, that is what I said more than once, it is about the way it is used. And even a butter knife can
kill dont be confused.

About the bucks.. you have missed my point. I was not thinking of a real value because most of things I have mentioned would be more than just 1$. And even if it was the real value you are not aware of incomes of people around the world. $7 is a fortune. You are just lucky it's nothing for you! Again FED would not be accessible to all.

"The market will continue as usual", sure yes but only after a period of chaos. And in that period anything can happen. Even a nuclear war! So go figure.

s.

Silvije, great teachers never indoctrinate, they work on undoing your conditioning. They may suggest some directions to look. A Bodhisattva specialises in challenging your illusions but doesn't replace those illusions with further illusions.

You are right about reasoning, it is purely a mind thing. There is, however, a 'wisdom' that is beyond mind. Search out the definition of the Sanskrit word prajna.

Have you never experienced happiness or sadness? Compassion is a noble thing but all too often feelings we call compassion are really projected (in the psychological sense) self-pity masquerading as compassion.

The toe thing was simply to illustrate that there are different ways of knowing. There is a limit to how far you can stretch a metaphor. The TV analogy seems to have suffered the same fate. Spirit and soul are merely concepts and we have no words to express the truth because it is beyond words. The nature of fire is hot and energetic, the nature of a knife is that it cuts.

A television is not the images that appear and disappear on its screen (that is my point) any more than you are the emotions and experiences that fleet through your consciousness. When you become caught up in a television program you cease to be aware of the television itself. Likewise, when you become caught up in all of the things that appear and disappear in consciousness you cease to be aware of the consciousness itself.

I had hoped to inspire you to think more deeply about some ideas you have but it appears that I have simply prompted you to defend those ideas.

I have experienced hapiness and sadness but they were just an illusion. Pitty you cannot realize it. Compassion is definitly not a self pity, and I am definitly not guilty for people misusing the term.

I dont know why you call yourself prajna, you are more likely ajnana. Why?

So you say the nature of a knife is that it cuts?? You are explaining its nature by what it is capable of doing??? By describing its properties? So we already concluded man is capable of good and bad, how then its nature is just one of those two things? You just chosed what you liked most? The nature of fire is hot? You are describing fire! Not it's nature!
I am tall like fire is hot but what that says about my nature????

No wonder you haven't really answered any of my questions. It seems to me that you are the one ignoring other ideas and defending your own. I clearly stated what is wrong with your ideas while you did what? Said that I am stretching your metafores which are wrong and declaring me uninspirable??

Now I will say: BAH!

s.

this might help

http://www.jimblog.net/wp-content/uploads/sacredtexts/eso/som

:)


peace

I don't call myself Prajna, Silviije; the name was given to me in the same way that some teachers give mantras to their students.

What is the nature of a knife; of fire; of a man?

Of course I haven't answered your questions; that is for you to do. Trungpa Rinpoche insisted that the question is the answer.

What is the nature of the television? We can at least be sure that its nature is not defined by what programs can be shown on it - that is the nature of the programs. Nor is it true that its nature is the reaction you have to the programs it shows - that speaks more about your nature than the nature of the television.

What is the source of your compassion? How do you distinguish between what is real and what is illusionary? Buddhist and Hindu teaching suggests it requires listening, contemplating and meditation (please refer to http://purifymind.com/SwordPrajna.htm (http://purifymind.com/SwordPrajna.htm))..

Had you stated clearly what was wrong with my ideas then we would be clear about it. Equally, had I clearly stated the same about your ideas the same would be true. Obviously neither of us has succeeded in stating things clearly.

Please read my posts more carefully; where did I declare you uninspirable? I said: ?I had hoped to inspire you to think more deeply about some ideas you have but it appears that I have simply prompted you to defend those ideas.? That suggests to me that I failed to inspire you, which is entirely different to declaring you uninspirable.

Leave 'BAH' to Terry; contempt simply encourages further contempt rather than enquiry.

What is the nature of a knife etc. I will let you answer yourself just as you suggested to me. At the other hand questions I have asked you.., I know answer on them, I wanted to hear what you were thinking on the subject.. and by formulating them in a way I did I wanted you to reconsider your supposed knowledge about them. It seems that did not happen or you just decided to believe your ideas are right, and to defend them. OK! You have right to change your mind later in life.

Then again are you sure TV have to have a nature? or yourself? If yes how have you concluded that?

It is not easy to see that something is an illusion. There are ways.. you have mentioned some of them... I simply seek truth by all means. And when you see it nobody can condition you back. 

About this uninspirable thing .. it was an irony, I hope you noticed ?? marks.
I will leave this BAH to others... I did not want to be disrespectfull or to expres a contempt, I just wanted to expres moderate disappointment.

Best,

s.

PS. Both of us claims wanting peace, and we have somewhat different opinions and dont seem to get along, I think even this kind of environment is not ideal for release of FED. Now think of others who dont want peace but profit and other stuff... All I want to say now is that FED is going to be released
to a dangerous environment... to a rageing crowd... where only a few would be aware of what is going on. They will not make a difference or will do it late. And that is something to be worried about.

I ask all of you:

Is it possible that somebody already have the device invented and working. I am not talking here of scams and half baked attempts that nobody can replicate. Is it possible that that man simply,
after period of thinking and seeing what huge impact would it have on the world, decided not to make it a public. Because of fear of the next world war? Is it possible? Is it possible to keep that secret?

Is maybe xenobard that inventor who has it but is dissapointed with a world and ask himself why to bother? Or is it really impossible to make such device?

Prajna said that answer is in questions :) Than seek no elsewhere! Or do by all means!

s.

Prajna, impersonating wisdom and using argumentation to forcefully enlighten others online is an offense under the new cyber-crimes legislation that's just been passed through the sphincter of the grand arbiter of the new world order.  I've saved your posts and have notified the karma police of your behaviour.  You can expect to receive a visit from them shortly.  If you fail to acknowledge their presence and purpose they are authorized now to manifest as an unrelenting set of dualisms perfectly designed to surreptitiously hinder your spiritual development until such a time as they see fit.  Consider yourself warned. ;D

As for the impact of a free energy device on humanity.  Such devices quite simply will not be allowed to exist unless they are regulated in such a way as to mitigate any disturbance their introduction may have on the global economy.  It will be illegal for you to make your own.  Buying the devices will be too expensive for all but the very wealthy.  And so you will have to rent them. 

If we're talking about radiant energy, you'll have one in your house that powers everything you currently run on batteries or mains power.  Your work-places and public spaces (roads etc.) will have units to power all their needs.  The cost for accessing these units won't be much more than the current cost of electricity.  But the savings for the environment will be monumental.

The introduction of the new energy into regions that previously had little or no conventional power will be heavily, heavily, heavily regulated.  There will be no watering of the deserts or sanitizing of the slums without addressing the issues related to the population explosions (and resultant shifts of 'power') that would follow. 

The very concept of free energy, freely available to all, is simply anathema to the capitalist, monetary, psuedo-democratic system that we all pretty much live under.  This system and all of us who maintain it will simply not allow it to be threatened, even if it means wasting the planet to keep it intact. 

There will be no revolution. 

This, at this particular moment, is my opinion, or one aspect of it anyway.  It's a big subject.  I'm sure you understand.

Les.   

Quote from: Silvije on June 12, 2007, 09:56:51 AM
I ask all of you:

Is it possible that somebody already have the device invented and working. I am not talking here of scams and half baked attempts that nobody can replicate. Is it possible that that man simply,
after period of thinking and seeing what huge impact would it have on the world, decided not to make it a public. Because of fear of the next world war? Is it possible? Is it possible to keep that secret?

Is maybe xenobard that inventor who has it but is dissapointed with a world and ask himself why to bother? Or is it really impossible to make such device?

Prajna said that answer is in questions :) Than seek no elsewhere! Or do by all means!

s.

Yes it is possible but not probable.  It would take resolving the right problem in the right manner. seeing that your invention could start or contribute to a world war would raise certain questions for the inventor.  :o Ones such as "Is mankind ready for what i have to offer?". "Will mankind misuse it and how?" What impact will it have on humanity? and after a birage of attempts to discredit or debunk your technology, Why bother? among a million others.  The real question is will the technology it's self stand up to emperical testing? all the other questions and conciderations are like possesing fools gold of knowledge. However they are very real questions that need addressed in the event that the technology you may or maynot posses is "the one" or "fools gold". Only the inventor can answer the questions posed by their technology.
All inventors must go through this stage. There are triumphs and tragedies in inventing as well.

The Hewett family "motto" is "NE TE QUASIVERIS EXTRA" "seek nothing outside yourself"

I don't see answers within questions, only more questions that need answers. ::)  

Les, you are a breath of fresh air.  Thanks for the warning. It is actually something of a relief, as I was beginning to suspect that the karma police were maqsuarading as these two and goading me.

What is the impact of not releasing the free energy? Do you see your karma preventing world war III ??? DOH! Maybe a little meditation?  ;D

As we all know, this scenario is approaching (next 10 to 40 years):

oil levels decline, prices go up, mankind becomes desperate for oil, conflicts ensue. (In the medium term however oil prices will decline to compete against other energy sources).

As much as I am regretful about global warming, at least it is an impetus for goverments to migrate earlier to alternative energy sources at least in part. This would reduce our dependence on oil and reduce stress on our lifestyle and economies in the future as oil declines.

Oil should not be used for motor vehicles as soon as possible. It should be used soley for the production of plastics, paints and a myriad of other products. If we can use alternative energy for cars we prolong the production and use of oil not to 40 years or less, but instead to say 200 years.

Free and alternative energy sources should be used for power, oil only used for products.

@ prajna and les

Thanks for your posts.  It's been enlightening.  I've returned from my log walk in the forest.  Sadly, I have to say that I have not yet decided whether you guys are the kind of people I want to surround myself with.  I mean I guess you automatically thought 'free-energy' would be a good thing for humanity, and, as such, it was with nothing but the best intentions that you went ahead and followed-through with further research and development toward that end.

What I did discover on my walk, however, was a measure of peace regarding all of this.  I'm beginning to realize that I can't hold you scientist / engineer types entirely to blame for all the ills technology has wrought and will wrought upon us - wait.  No.  Yes I can.  But at least I can't expect you to be perfect.  You can all be inventors and scientists and engineers and philosophers and sociologists and anthropologists and historians and futurists all in the same person.  It was wrong of me to expect so much from those of you who develop technology.

My grieving and griping about how awful you scientist-engineer types can not be expressed enough it seems.  Nevertheless, I will stop my belly-aching.  But only as long as no one disputes the fact that a culture of lack of fore-sight has developed among circles of new technology developers.  This culture of shortsightedness is the root of the problem.

To use another analogy like the knife analogy:


Long ago there was a caveman.  He was a simple guy.  He was named JURG.

Now JURG was a member of a small community of other cavemen and cavewomen.   They called themselves the OGURS.

JURG was a cripple, due to being born with a lame leg.  Thus he always carried a walking stick, using it as a crutch.  One day, while shuffling through the forest, a wild boar came from out of nowhere and suddenly charged at him.  It was the greatest boar he had ever seen.  He was so frightened that he tripped on his crutch, falling backward, the crutch snapping and splintering on a root as he fell.  In his hast to protect himself, he raised the splintered crutch up at just the moment when the boar reached him.  The animal ended up goring itself on the splintered crutch.

With much difficultly JURG rushed back to the camp on his bloodied, splintered crutch and told the settlement what had happened.  Of course, most wouldn't have believed the story.  Who would think that the cripple JURG could kill a giant bore.  But there was the splintered, bloody crutch.  And so a group of them followed JURG back to where the giant boar lay.

They were so amazed at the size of the boar that they began to ask with sincere reverence just how JURG had killed it.  JURG was suddenly some sort of super-warrior-wizard-shaman-guru.  Despite JURG's  attempts to explain how it had all happened accidentally, they considered him a hero!  They paid no attention to his protestations while they made a feast for him in his honor, entitling him JURG the boar-slayer. 

They placed the splintered crutch it at the front of the cave on a makeshift alter, calling it by a new name: the 'spear'.

It wasn't long before everyone in their camp learned to make 'spears' and use them for hunting.  They did away with the old 'clubs'.  Now, with spears, the IGURS became the most powerful group of cave-people in the area. They defeated the 'IGURS' who lived over the crest of the mountain pass.  They killed the OGURS and the LAGURS on the other side of the river.  They killed the PUGURS and the KOGURS in the valley next to where the IGURS had lived.  It became their custom to kill all the people they came across who looked or spoke differently from them, and there was much feasting on their brains.

The moral of the story is?

@Prajna: If you don't believe me, maybe you will belive the next fellow:

?Capital as such is not evil; it is its wrong use that is evil. Capital in some form or other will always be needed.? - Gandhi
--

I'm trying to get a clue why for example Steorn company needs so much time to release their findings?
Are they having second thoughts? Or they are fake?

I agree with DrWhat. Eg. Solar powered car would be nice to have. Only problem is we cannot really know for sure how long oil will last.. but sooner or later it is inevitable.

@Xenobard: You may whish whatever you want. Question is why do you think people, how do you call them, scientist and engineer types, would want to sorround you? It's easy to blame someone or everybody for that matter. What have you done to make it a better place?

But please tell us the moral of your story. Sounded interesting..

--

For the end of my reply I will quote Gandhi again:

?Be the change you wish to see in the world.?

s.

Steorn company? probably nothing in their findings to support the claim of free energy or overunity. there are only a few ways of doing it and mankind has been looking for centuries for those few ways with no concrete results. 

there is enough oil on this planet to last us until we destroy ourselfs. Lindsey Williams claims that big oil struck a field  on gull island alaska that will supply us with oil for 200 years even at the current increase in demand. Lindsey confirms what I have suspected for years. watch all 8 segments you won't regret it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbakN7SLdbk

Lindsey says he lived with men in black for 3 years.

But it seems he got out.. still walking :) He must be a Neo :)

s.

Hmm, so far, as no one has yet answered the question as to the moral of the story, I have come to conclude that EVERYONE on this forum is either unconcerned with the future effects their technologies / discoveries will have on society, too lazy to think what the morale could be, or, lastly, too stupid (most of the time stupidity and laziness are the same).  In either case, it seems this forum isn't the place for me.  Does anyone know of another people were 'intelligent' people discuss new ideas for new technologies?

Quote from: xenobard on June 21, 2007, 01:15:39 AM
Hmm, so far, as no one has yet answered the question as to the moral of the story, I have come to conclude that EVERYONE on this forum is either unconcerned with the future effects their technologies / discoveries will have on society, too lazy to think what the morale could be, or, lastly, too stupid (most of the time stupidity and laziness are the same).  In either case, it seems this forum isn't the place for me.  Does anyone know of another people were 'intelligent' people discuss new ideas for new technologies?

If you think that everyone must bow before you and waste our time trying to figure out your personal problems you are definately in the wrong forum. calling us stupid or lazy because we are unconcerned with your somewhat skewed scenario isn't getting you the popularity you obviously seek than maybe it is time for you to move on. However if your open sourcing your technology and posting it for research, than by all means do so. We are slightly more advanced than cavemen for christs sake.

I have found this interesting picture:

http://www.irintech.com/x1/images/jean/gasprices.jpg

I wonder would it be the same with FED?
Would it cost the same amount to build one in for eg. Caracas and Seoul?

Why is the price of oil so different? Is it because of transport?

Do we have any oil experts here to explain it because I get all kind of ideas
but am unsure if they are correct.

thanx

silvije

I see that you like to raise issues and change topics.

this web page is about ideas not really about opinions. the answer to the question you raised is of a philosohical/introspective type. go out and watch the stars at night. think about it.

Quote from: kidsicu2 on June 27, 2007, 03:10:40 AM
this web page is about ideas not really about opinions. the answer to the question you raised is of a philosohical/introspective type. go out and watch the stars at night. think about it.

yeah, please tell me is this your idea or opinion?

If you dont have an answer to what I asked than why do you have to leave your opinions here?

Stars were nice as always. Think about it.

s.