This started in High Voltage HHO
Quote from: s_c_engineering on June 27, 2007, 09:04:43 PM
found a page here about a browns gas electrolyser. claiming 2400 liters per hour of browns gas in a 126 series plate setup at 11 amps at 240v. converted to dc of course. so with added frequencies.... more powerful gas in large amounts
http://amasci.com/weird/bgf1.html (http://amasci.com/weird/bgf1.html)
Cost to Operate Compared to Oxy-Acetylene: p42 " Here we are paying about 4 cents per kilowatt hour.(Canada) Our 2500 Liter/hr electrolyzer draws about 10 kwh. This is 40 cents. At present, this electrolyzer uses about one liter per hour of di stilled water,when producing gas at 2500 liters per hour. I buy my water at 25cents/liter. Total cost per hour=65 cents. I bought my own little oxygen (50 cubic feet) and acetylene(40 cubic feet) bottles years ago. The deal is,I exchange these bottles f or full ones whenever I need more gas, paying for the gas but not paying rent on the bottles. It so happens that if I use my bottles down to dangerously low pressures, I can get 2500 liters of volume out of them. So, if I use gas at 2500 L/h, I can get o ne hour of use. It costs me $52 to fill these bottles. So, total cost per hour is $52. Thus my cost to operate the Brownââ,¬â,,¢s Gas torch is nearly 99% less. ââ,¬Â¦If I was paying `18 cents per kilowatt hour to operate the Brownââ,¬â,,¢s Gas torch, it would cost $2.05/ hour to operate. (distilled water included) This would be 96% less operating cost. p42.
If Brown's Gas is exposed to a heat source, it will expand. Implosion of this expanded gas will utilize atmospheric pressure. Numerous pumping applications and the development of atmospheric implosion motors are the result. Implosion, as a single react ion, only occurs with this gas and is impossible with other known substances! When Brown's Gas burns, it turns into water. When it is produced from water using electrolysis, it expands 1,860 to 1. Implosion is achieved with a high frequency spark of 9,00 0 Volts or higher. When subjected to electric ignition. it uniquely implodes (patented in March, 1990 after 8 years process time) producing a near perfect vacuum. Upon implosion, vacuum is 1,859. The remaining "1" becomes once again a pure form of water. Only a low decible "ping" accompanies the implosion. The speed of detonation (or burn rate) is greater than 3,600 meters per second. There is no contraction - expansion effect when the gas is imploded only contraction. Little heat is lost to the equipment in an implosion cycle. The low cost of gas production than ensures an inexpensive method for production of ultra high vacuum.
so... stanley meyers injector which disassociates water and then uses electricity to ignite it.... hmmm
I need to do this .
"vacuum is 1,859. The remaining "1" becomes once again a pure form of water."
This type of and engine would need no exhaust just a water return and no intake just a HHO injection. And from what I am understanding no cooling as there is little heat transfer. Will start experiments based on implosion and use a pneumatic
cylinder for the engine simulation to start if I can maintain implosion.
Good cylinder for testing implosion effects.
Quote from: s_c_engineering on June 27, 2007, 09:58:11 PM
according to that paragraph it may need to be heated first. its says it expands when exposed to heat.. then you can implode it. so when the torch burns it at around 300 degrees and you expose a voltage potential to it.. sounds alot like the center of a vortex diassociation of water.. high voltage.. heat from the friction of water spinning and imploding onto itself
Heat ,gotcha induction heat the implosion chamber n/p
Anyone else like to get in on experimenting with this?
now be careful when your doing all this. have you seen what happens when you expose a 150 psi air tank when you expose it to vac... its not very happy about it to say the least. so how much vac do we get from 1860 to 1/1860 the size and what sort of volume are you talking about in an engine cylinder.... how much vacumn can a piston in a standard car engine take? or the valves before they get sucked into the cylinder. this may be a matter of taking the head off and putting a plate on it with no space in between the piston and the head. i just dont want anything to happen to anyone. these forces are huge. BE CAREFUL is key ;D
I am a firm believer in relief valves and a receiver in case the rod blows out instead of being sucked in. I have seen propane tanks blow, a micro nuclear explosion in a bomb box not made to with stand such a thing, a blower of a 600cu nitro blowen hemi rocket to about 30 feet in the air ,plasma ball burn a hole in the ceiling and a few other things I wont even try to describe ......... and this is with in the last year :)
I just don't think a piston engine is going to work here .One is the added oxygen from the air . Next is the idea of valves we dont need valve at all no need for intake or exhaust .
I think this thing has to be a vacuum chamber to start , then inject the HHO into this chamber . wait 2 stage implosion on one side explosion of the other . I have alot of thinking to do.
This might work in a car engine with a second firing B-TDC or primary firing . Before compression even. No ,there is a way though
First thing is first ,stable implosion
This is new so my thoughts will be abit more scattered than normal
IronHead
In my opinion, hho is not for combustion engines. A different approach is to burn the hho gas in a nearly closed chamber which will burn into a plasma. Then steam water to run a quasiturbine motor (see quasiturbine.com) which will run a car with few moving parts....or generate electricity. Totally different approach....
Nice, More input. Everyone I want to hear some ideas on this stuff this is great stuff right here!
i went and got some food and thought about this. 1860 times the size. so in a cylindinder. no valves, basically taking the head off of an engine and putting a injector in the middle of the cylinder. well not really a injector... for example with stans injector he had about .010 gap between teh center electrode and the outer. so you have what maybe a 1/4ml of water in there prob less. so anyways you use 1.4 v and whatever amp you need to get rid of that water. turn it into hho. then you use a heating element in this "ceramic insulated" injector that then expands the gas further giving you optimum conditions for implosion. at this point the expanding gasses have allowed the piston to go back down to the bottom. (keep in mind this whole reaction is in a vacumn it just is going to expand as far back as it will let the piston go)
then you release your spark which is according to the browns gas 9kv so im sure that a spark plug spark would do just fine. this hv "lightning" causes the implosion reaction sucking the piston back up. whats left.....
the water you just disassociated... its back in the injector because the "solid plate head" has a gap of .01 between it and the piston.
low drag plastics? ptfe... EDIT Delrin. what type of engine... i dont know has someone tried it on a car engine, i seriously doubt it, and if they did you would have to replace some things,you couldnt have any oil in there to lubricate. id like to see it in a radax style engine.......
ive also been contacted by a member here last week whos interested in posting up an engine design. words have been thrown out such as 1 cycle... along with some other parameters... anyways hopefully he will post it up he said he working out some details cause he wants to split it up...
PEOPLE POST YOUR IDEAS ON HERE... or put links to other threads that have your ideas proposed for harnessing this energy. Im really sick of hearing about supression cases on the internet. this is free source. thought of right here. but... if your going to throw out an engine design include a theory on how to harness this power.. dont just say "this engine" thats what we should use.. ya know
if you read into browns gas you cannot boil water with hho.
on a side note... these hho torches will weld metal to bricks. melt metal, take ceramic to the heat of the sun (blows a hole right thru ceramic tiles).. hho reacts with what its burning from what ive read and takes on the properties of what it burned as posted above....
It is about heat propagation not heat produced . There is little propagation in an HHO explosion or implosion but the plasma thing that is a different thing all together.
I think a good candidate for such and engine to start out as for piston type might be an oil less air compressor motor. If you did a car engine or 2 stroke or 4 stroke made for fuel you will need to not only replace the rings but also the bearing to run in a no oil situation. So sealing up a 2 stroker might be a way to go and for big stuff the Detroit Diesel 2 stroker
ok nother thought. can you turn water into hho with low voltage at high frequency at a fast enough rate to diassociate the water... or would you need something similar to stan meyers hv diassociation to be able to make hho fast enough. this needs testing also im pretty sure its gonna need to be hv low amp
nother thought. stan meyers used "stainless steel wire" right.... what if he used nichrome wire inside of this ceramic in his injector to act as a resistor and to heat the injector to expand the hho gases as they disassociated. we can have steam and hho in the same space right. and vacum allows water to boil at lower temperature.
just ideas...
EDIT didnt think about oilless air compresors. lol didnt read your post right ......imo you couldnt even use a air compressor motor, its still lubricated by oil. this engine cannot have oil in the cylinder(or whatever type of reaction chamber you have) at all, it will interfere with the reaction. all we can have in here is hho and water. or else we will have contaminated water, either left in the chamber or collecting in your cell if you choose to use an outside source of hho.
do oilless air compressors use a oil catch or are they teflon lubed?
ive never taken one apart
Read back again . There are alot of ways I think to do this I will start with the nematic cylinder .
sweet, be safe. what are you going to use for an injector? or are you going to try to feed hho into it?
First I have to figure out why I got an implosion lol then do it over and over till stable .
there are so many ways to do this . But to start I would inject the hho through a manual valve .If I get the recipe right . And i think I know whats happening . will do more tomorrow.
ya you might want to figure out first what makes the gas implode, might reinvent the 30 odd 6.....
static could have set it off. you had burning hho covering the pure hho the heat from that and your cell maybe expanded the hho then all it takes is a static spark id imagine, maybe it was one of those sparks you see between plates sometimes. sounds like whats going on in the tip of those hho "welders" maybe
yes this is what I was thinking a hv discharge . I am going to set up a coil tomorrow will let you know. I see them all the time in the cell and outside of it.
As I said in my original post... I'm just an observer since I can't help with replicating anything at this time. But I did say I would help if I could.
Here's an interesting little engine. It's just not HHO though. (or is it???)
Great work IH!
Dan
I also saw something about a black powerder engine. The powder would ignight leaving behind a vaccume that would pull the piston down, not suck it up.
Quote from: dlwammo on June 28, 2007, 12:37:10 AM
As I said in my original post... I'm just an observer since I can't help with replicating anything at this time. But I did say I would help if I could.
Here's an interesting little engine. It's just not HHO though. (or is it???)
Great work IH!
Dan
Yup it is HHO and that is the same design as my cell. go figure .
Does not matter I am not looking to sell or patent anything .
This is open source as it should be.
Thanks for the info
ignition timing would definity be a big deal on this engine, timed so the explosion would expand a little, and the implosion could close the cylinder alot. interesting though.
Quasi turbines I don't see being very useful, too hard to seal so many flexible joints, low engine lifespan, similar prob to the rotary, only even less life. But... my twin rotor supercharger converted to a motor gives me an idea. I will have to post a drawing I did eons ago, and then explain.
@deadpool
Ha... I was going to say that!
This may sound a little crazy at first but here goes nothing:
Run it like a mini jet engine, but backwards! If you've seen anything
on DIY jet engines than you can imagine a pulse jet engine creating
an oscilating vacuum. Altho I would not know how to do it with a
closed loop of water, but at the jets output you would have a whole
lot of power to collect via turbine due to water. Easily accessable
with minimal moving parts, but I have no idea how HHO is going to
treat metals. We need more research on material compatibility issues.
Also I'm not sure how well the "tuning" on the chamber would work
in relation to contraction vacuum as opposed to expansion thrust...
The cobustion chamber may need to be flipped or moved to adjust.
But all jet engines are open on both sides pulling air in one side and
blowing it out the other. The point is if it worked, you would have a
lot of cool to the touch air flow driving your alternators as directly as
possible at the point where the output energy is most focused.
http://www.rmcybernetics.com/projects/DIY_Devices/homemade_jet_engine.htm
http://www.blastwavejet.com/pulsejet.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZOUANZJQwE&NR=1
BTW is HHO really the only gas implosion?
~Dingus Mungus
HHO can steam water! The secret power of hydrogen is the extra energy produced from disassociation of the electrons and their recombination.
The Korean company Brownsgas.company patented the burning of brownsgas in a ceramic vessel which reburns the water with the accumulation of heat and forms a plasma, which like the plasma electrolysis, can be sustained with a very reduced level of hho gas being injected. On their web page, you can read about the patent.
Actually, the plasma electrolysis with tungsten can also be done under pressure and steam water and run a generator or steam turbine driven car. Research it.
Maybe you can get some ideas from this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QInI1-75grM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QInI1-75grM) part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dggEfjvf3w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dggEfjvf3w) part 2
-rapttor
.
You might consider that the best means of converting the nuclear power of a plasma into work is steam...same as the power plant.
An implosion engine is not designed for gasoline. An implosion engine will implode hho to water and the continous heat will generate a plasma. this will make more steam than any other method. 5 of ironhead's plasma electrolysis devices under pressure could generate 100K btu ...enough to run a 3 KW generator by steam! Enough to take you off the grid and power your car batteries or fuel cells at night. Sell the excess kw to the grid.
just build it!
robb. want to make some drawings and post em up? im picturing some sort of reaction chamber with the ceramic in the middle. and water all around it to be boiled. send this thru a tesla turbine and you got power correct? no how are you supposed to do this without burning up the ceramic? cause ive seen the torch punch a hole in ceramic. post some links to what your talking about if you can.
look what i found just now... sure looks like someone took the heads off and slapped on a aluminum block with some sort of hho injection.... hmmmm http://bwt.jeffotto.com/bwt_catalogue/engine.htm (http://bwt.jeffotto.com/bwt_catalogue/engine.htm)
sc-engineering:
When I said "just build it" , I meant no disrespect to our Mr. Ironhead, just watch out for the men in black from NSA. Really, if you had everyone oil free, the tax revenue reduction would force the states into bankruptcy....nuff said.
Ok, you can go over to brownsgas.com and look at the patents....one is on redundant burning of water in a ceramic. You need to get the patent number and go to us patents to see the images. The brownsgas in fed in and it turns to water until the temperature reaches up to 1500 C, when it turns into a gas and a plasma. You need to turn the browns gas way down or you get a melt down.
Just find a good steam engine if you don't like the quasiturbine. Telsa turbines have not been economically viable.
I am not looking for the extreamly complex system to start out here , All I want to see is an engine will turn using the implosion effect . Vacuum is a very powerful reaction. far more powerful than pressure . And the MIB thing , been there done that I know all about them and how they work. We have ways of dealing with them on Reservation, Indian territory. For the MIB looking in ,you know what I am talking about.
Today I have had 6 out of 10 consecutive HHO implosions . As the cell heats up the resonance changes , so this is part of the problem . And high voltage igniting is a must from what I have done today.
I am now moving to the 2 stroke modification concept . This will requirer bearing change and ring change to get started along with exhaust and intake sealing . I will build a new type of spark plug / injector combination to feed and fire the engine
This is the donor engine with generator head 500 watts at 115VAC
sc-engineering:
One of the best ways to convert steam power to mechanical energy is using a scroll expander. I have seen a 3 kw scroll expander in a co-generation power plant designed by ERC for residential use, operating off of 100K btu from natural gas.
http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/479068/1674
This is a scroll expander.
hey ironhead id like to hear about your mib experiences... i think this may call for a person email or phone call or soemthing.
id also like to know... if these MIB are so widespread why is china and korea using browns gas on a widespread scale.
uh oh i mentioned MIB now im gonna get Gang Staulked..... ;D
nice test engine did you see the link with the pics of the v8?s 1500 ft lbs running on hho vac.....
Yes I saw the engine was a great post as it has inspired the 2 stroker I am using.
Seems to me they have backed way off since the Bush Sir years .
Not sure whats going on in your Gov/Fed world ,I don't live in it. All I know is what I see on the net. I don't even own a TV and I don't care to. My focus is not on whats going on in that arena it is on what I need to live beyond it. Beyond the Matrix you all let happen. Sorry but this is the way I feel about it.
With this statement you can make fun all you want :
"uh oh i mentioned MIB now im gonna get Gang Staulked..... Grin"
But I know that the bullet removed from my chest was no joke . These people
face to face dont f*&K around when it comes to there money . These people own the energy in your world and are not willing to let that go. The internet I think has made it now impossible for them to keep up on alternative energy out breaks. The internet may just be a key to freedom , depends on the people that use it. But then again 99% of you are brainwashed into you ready made comfy little worlds that "they" can take away at any moment.
Enough about politics and beliefs . I am here to build and share to the few that wish to live beyond the grip of the greed and power hungry crazed .
I'm not trying to solve the worlds problems, I am solving my own.
Also ,sharing with others some of the problems I have already solved .
IronHead
Finally figured out the MIB was men in black....missed the movie. Anyway, got my imagination going. The ethanol boys are literally eating our lunch-corn. One tankfull can feed a hungry child. Never seriously considered the MIB. The internet is the only true freedom of the press.
Hydrogen is the answer. I feel the plasma creation is the only real thermal energy generator and economical viable alternative for a better environment.
Quote from: Dingus Mungus on June 28, 2007, 06:21:26 AM
@deadpool
Ha... I was going to say that!
This may sound a little crazy at first but here goes nothing:
Run it like a mini jet engine, but backwards! If you've seen anything
on DIY jet engines than you can imagine a pulse jet engine creating
an oscilating vacuum. Altho I would not know how to do it with a
closed loop of water, but at the jets output you would have a whole
lot of power to collect via turbine due to water. Easily accessable
with minimal moving parts, but I have no idea how HHO is going to
treat metals. We need more research on material compatibility issues.
Also I'm not sure how well the "tuning" on the chamber would work
in relation to contraction vacuum as opposed to expansion thrust...
The cobustion chamber may need to be flipped or moved to adjust.
But all jet engines are open on both sides pulling air in one side and
blowing it out the other. The point is if it worked, you would have a
lot of cool to the touch air flow driving your alternators as directly as
possible at the point where the output energy is most focused.
http://www.rmcybernetics.com/projects/DIY_Devices/homemade_jet_engine.htm
http://www.blastwavejet.com/pulsejet.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZOUANZJQwE&NR=1
BTW is HHO really the only gas implosion?
~Dingus Mungus
-Also a plasma/steam reaction
-NO MOVING PARTS
-CHEAP TO BUILD!!!
At least tell me why its a bad idea...
~Dingus
Should this not be in the Plasma thread ?
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2058.new.html#new
Ironhead:
I assume your post was directed at my mention of benefits of plasma. True, this thread is on HHO implosion engines. To a degree, a device that burns hho by implosion is a closed container is sort of a hho implosion engine producing thermal energy. More related to HHO gas than to plasma electrolysis. Need a new thread...tried to generate some interest in the subject. No more posts on it here, sorry...need a new thread to discuss this matter.
Yeah start a thread and build your idea into reality .
@Dingus.
this pulsjet system.
i see 1955 as turbines for for hobby- flight-plane.
that was about 50cm long and 15 cm in diameter.
Was working in an better way , that shown now on the videos
Pese
@Pese
Those are just simple DIY backyard LP engines...
Pulse jets can be made to be the most reliable and efficient DIY jet engines.
I've seen a DIY thermal jet that weighed less than 15kilos that could sustain
well over 150kilos of thrust for well over an hour. Also some jet engines are
as efficient as any other IC engine, but with less than 5% of the parts!
I'm sure the task just seems too daunting for some, but the idea matches Ironheads
request for input almost exactly. The only exception is reusing the water... Which is
a waste in a jet engine since the expanding mass adds speed and force to the turbine.
~Dingus Mungus
so you got shot in the chest by MIB.... what were you doing at the time that drew so much of their attention? did they shoot you face to face or did you catch a sniper round?
Every gunshot victem who is admitted to an ER, must have a accompaning police report at check out.
So if you did in fact have a bullet removed from your chest then who was the police suspect? You're
lucky to have survived it though, the chest is the second most deadly place to be shot. What kind of round di they remove? I hope you don't mind that I'm curious about the paperwork because I seriously wonder
about these people, and if they even get persued or investigated by street cops/DOJ. I mean using
DNA/ballistics data they can track down no name killers in the streets, but a well funded representitive
who probably sleeps in a near by hotel never gets caught.
I hope to hear more details like I'm sure we all do...
~Dingus Mungus
P.S. pulse jets are neato!
It was along time ago. I did not start this thread to get into these things.
this is not about them or me . This about an engine. Is there not enough pain,death,shootings and so on in you entertainment built world for your minds to be occupied. You want more I never did understand that about you people.
Pulse jet and turbine
I think it is a great idea . I just dont have anything like that around right now.
I have to start out with junk that I have around . Once I get everything to work the way I like ,then I start to build more based on knowing it works from the junk prototypes .
The other thing is I know nothing about jet engines or there use.I know they are very loud because a friend of mine build a valueless pulse jet . I can tell you I would not want cut the grass with that bad boy. Or use it for transportation.
If I can get a good recipe for an Implosion HHO fuel maybe someone that knows these type engines and has a use for them might want to build one based on the implosion idea. Maybe you Dingus Mungus or do you build at all ?
Chest shot - they were just saying "hello".
Two fingers behind the ear and they are saying "goodbye".
My Pop got hit under the ear and out the front corner of his mouth - took out two teeth - was turning his head at the time - saved his life - only has a couple of small scars (was NAM not MIB).
(Let's not forget the green glow that Marinov got...that sure did the trick.)
Noticed a reduction in temp with the implosion yet? Seems it would be endotropic.
Any electrical effects associated?
That is correct.
I am working on it . I have more stability today and will do more tomorrow.
I will also try the plate thing, I have a nice piece of copper to try. I have not noticed temp differences yet . I have a big syringe I want to try some implosion experiments in and will check temps. Would be cool if the thing would freeze because refrigeration is another thing I am working with.
Thank you for asking .
Reproducing it was the first big hurdle - now you can study it.
Teslas mechanical oscillator got cold (not sure if it was on one end or both)
Yep, refridgeration just a few beers away - say a case or two... ;)
Quote from: IronHead on June 28, 2007, 08:10:26 PM
It was along time ago. I did not start this thread to get into these things.
this is not about them or me . This about an engine. Is there not enough pain,death,shootings and so on in you entertainment built world for your minds to be occupied. You want more I never did understand that about you people.
I'm really only interested in if they caught the guy or even bothered to investigate. AKA are they in on it?
Quote from: IronHead on June 28, 2007, 08:10:26 PM
Pulse jet and turbine
I think it is a great idea . I just dont have anything like that around right now.
I have to start out with junk that I have around . Once I get everything to work the way I like ,then I start to build more based on knowing it works from the junk prototypes.
It's literally the easiest engine in the world to build from scatch.
Like I said though your current materials research is required before attempting construction.
After all I'd hate to build it out of SS only to find out it'll melt in 10 minutes.
Quote from: IronHead on June 28, 2007, 08:10:26 PM
The other thing is I know nothing about jet engines or there use.I know they are very loud because a friend of mine build a valueless pulse jet . I can tell you I would not want cut the grass with that bad boy. Or use it for transportation.
If I can get a good recipe for an Implosion HHO fuel maybe someone that knows these type engines and has a use for them might want to build one based on the implosion idea. Maybe you Dingus Mungus or do you build at all ?
I wouldn't even call myself a jet engine novice... I understand the concepts that allow for its operation, but I've never built one. (NOT YET AT LEAST) lol! Right now I've been working on my diferent models of Newman motors and finalizing my loan paperwork, but as soon as I get moved in to the new house I'm buying, I can buy a new welder and get my machine shop back together. I can send you pics of my old shop if you'd like. Unfortunately when I was travelling for the last 4-5 years most of my equipment grew legs or was sold to pay for my exploits. Altho in the coming months as I begin to reaquire the needed tools, I'd be more than happy to build a pulse jet to test. Once I can get it humming on LP, I'll see if I can do the same with HHO. I was planning on building a mini one just for giggles anywho.
I too am teaching myself about refigeration!!! I want to build a ultra high temperature differential dual heat pump. It'll have two pressure vessels, LPZ<50PSI/HPZ>300PSI, with a mutual heat exchange. (a component I'm calling a IR torroid) Basicly the HPZ of one vessel supplies input heat to the LPZ of the second further pressurizing its HPZ. Like running them in series... It'll also have a 1.5ton evaporator/condesor running on quarter horse compressors, and the expansion valves will be replaced by a variable load turbine to further harvest wasted kinetic energy. It's going to be quite the AC/water heater, if the CoP is anywhere near where I hope it'll be! Let me know if you want to discuss some refigeration designs or concepts, as that is a topic we don't discuss much here, and I'm always looking to exchange new ideas and knowledge.
I just wanted to add: About the vessel freezing. I don't think you'll be liquifing any hydrogen.
At least I hope not for your sake... but that vacuum will cool the vessel, I just don't know how well.
~Dingus Mungus
http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:ki_pfCMKCKwJ:merlib.org/%3Fpage%3D6+keely+implosion&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us
Go to bottom of page, to Dale Pond / Keely section
"electrical discharge could be seen"
Video no long available.
@Dingus Mungus
there was a report but nothing became of it.
I use ammonia refrigeration activated with Electric, LP or Magnagas ( HHO and a bunch of other impurities).
Good luck on the Newman thing it is a nice battery charger .
Quote from: IronHead on June 28, 2007, 10:08:38 PM
Video no long available.
@Dingus Mungus
there was a report but nothing became of it.
I use ammonia refrigeration activated with Electric, LP or Magnagas ( HHO and a bunch of other impurities).
Good luck on the Newman thing it is a nice battery charger .
Untill your contacts oxidize... LOL! Thats what I'm working on right now.
About the report, not to go OT again, but thats what I mean... I bet no suspects even.
You'll have to post a thread on your refigerant techniques, as I'm familiar with the pros/cons of ammonia, but only understand electric activation thus far.
Also I was just thinking about my statement that the vessel wouldn't freeze...
I know 2 h2o-->2 h2 + o2 is exothermic, but I'm unsure about the combustion.
I think its exothermic still, but that doesn't sound right to me now for some reason.
You may be right and the combined vacuum and combustion effects could freeze it.
So much to learn, so little time,
~Dingus Mungus
See page six for the two additional gasses that Joe encountered - one appears to be Brown's Gas and the other - your gas.
http://www.mayanmajix.com/Educate.pdf
Per Russell's periodic table there are three gasses above Hydrogen that have not been discovered:
Luminon (which glows very easily and could be used for lighting)
Halanon
Helionon
Some have thought that "Helionon" is Brown's gas, and I'm not sure where "helionon" was connected to "implosion", but Joe refered to three gases: Hydrogen, one that burned with no color and a sharp crack, and a third that burned yellow with a serious crack and ringing in the ears. I believe you have all three and your cell doesn't care what mood you are in.
It may be possible to asscoiate frequencies to the production of each of these gasses as Russell's table is based on frequency.
(Lock up your daughters, here come the alchemists...he he he...)
very nice , anymore info on the phenomenology on these gases is greatly appreciated.
Might try to track down Dale Pond:
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:ShVe_sKMD9cJ:www.svpvril.com/Cosmology/addendum2.html+Luminon+Halanon+Helionon&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us
http://www.svpvril.com/FAQ.html
(click his name on second link for email - might mention the names of the suspect gases [Luminon, Halanon, Helionon])
Did that
If email does not work, then try to contact through his publisher or even his webmaster.
IronHead, you asked for both sides of the issue.
Dennis Lee sez HHO don't implode
http://www.phact.org/e/bgas.htm
about 4 paragraphs down.
But then, that's jes what I found on the topic.
Like I said before, all ya need is concentric PVC pipes, with a piston (solid cap)fastened on the inner one, with the space filled with water. Displace the water with HHo and light it, and see which way the pipe goes. Foolproof, no?
I might jes try it (would that be "turtleproof"?)
Pics to follow, either way.
Keith
I,m just using one of those 2 oz big plastic syringes right now.
It deffinitely implodes I've done the experiment with a test tube a long time ago.
The trick is to implode every time . That does not seem to be so easy as factors very during the Cell run time.
If you're short on fireworks, I've heard HHO balloons are as loud as M-80s. Just don't hold in your hand when you light them ;D
Implosive cavitation in nature
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zrktz0QN8hI&mode
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKPrGxB1Kzc&mode
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONQlTMUYCW4&mode
Yes my study has always been unorthodox, but this brings my understand to new levels beyond the norm.
IronHead
Quote from: IronHead on July 07, 2007, 08:14:33 PM
Ummm hmmmm ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zrktz0QN8hI&mode
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKPrGxB1Kzc&mode
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONQlTMUYCW4&mode
I've had one of these lil bastards in a 300Gal Reef tank before, loud even through 9/16 - 5/8 inch glass. We had to tear it down completely to find him because if they are too close to the glass, or miss fire into the glass they have been known to shatter large tanks. This meant removing almost a ton of live tonga & belieze rock..(no fun at all)..Not to mention eat your expensive imported, really hard to get reef shrimp.
Yes my study has always been unorthodox, but this brings my understand to new levels beyond the norm.
IronHead
Ok guys I did a little thinking and here what I came up with.
1 litre h20=1860 litre hho (this has not been confirmed by me, I would like someone out
there to confirm this, pokes IH.)
So the implosion of hho is an absolute necessity, but it is preceded by an exothermic reaction which is an expansion, temp up=pressure up which leads to volume up. Followed by a recombination of h20 which is endothermic, and the end product takes up less physical space, which means pressure down to 1/1860th of start.
This began me thinking about how that correlated with running hho in a normal engine, given its cycle and the basic nature of the fuels chemical reaction process which is very much different than above. In gas engines the air and liquid fuel take up less volume than the end result. In hho the hho takes up much more volume than the end result h20. And the hho burns much faster, report as far as I have found to be 4 times faster. So that would mean if we ignite hho at the same time as gas in an engine the piston only travels 1/4 down its power stroke before the vacuum effect counteracts the power down stroke, so the piston must move through 3/4 of its motion while fighting this vacuum effect, can you say loss of power.
So I came up with a cycle that would use the properties of hho in an engine to get the best yield of power. I must say, if this is true we might just have a winner. I just want to name this cycle, if it works.
1. intake valve opens at tdc, piston moves down, intake valve closes at 120
degrees after tdc, spark at about 135 degrees after tdc. The reason for this is
if hydrogen does indead burn 4 times faster than gasoline the hydrogen needs 1/4
the time of gas. Gas burns for about 180 degrees of rotation, hydrogen would
then only need 45 degrees of rotation to complete its burn 135 + 45= 180 or
bottom of piston travel.
2. power stroke, but in the upwards direction instead of the downwards. Exhaust
valve opens at about 330 degrees of rotation or 30 degrees before tdc, allowing
air to mix with the liquid h20 and as the piston finshes the last 30 degrees of
rotation it pushes that mixture out the exhaust. exhaust valve closes at tdc.
and back to #1
The intake and exhaust valves would open out of the chamber not into it.
Wow only 2 strokes, very little pressure buildup (hho with no compression
stroke) means very little excess heat (actually proly no increase in heat due to
the vacuum cycle, vacuum=colder).
So all of the energy goes to motion not waste.
EDIT
I fully concur with all that you have layed out here d3adp00l
I been preaching timing for I don't know how long and this is really the
absolute top end of a timing situation for this engine to be as efficient as it can be , Thank you for your research. Now I must apply . If it works you can name the new stroke type of this implosion motor.
I am very close to having a stable and near fail proof implosion mix.
It wont be long now.
I might need some help from the talented machinist out there in the forums .
I am just a backyard builder and build mostly from junk ,but if this works we are going to need some precision machine work done . I would much rather the family of the forum do this then outsourcing to a company.
So much to do so little time.
IronHead
EDIT
hmmm, how about a solenoid driven valve. The valve will feel both the explosion and the implosion.
This 2 cycle operation would cut down the intake and exhaust time considerably, but if hydrogen burns as hot as has been reported, having some residual exhaust gas carried over to the intake downstroke may help; further, the intake would already be partially prefilled and the exhaust would not need to be totally emptied, so less time may be appropriate. A turbo may be a benefit to the intake.
By eliminating compression, this motor won't be very powerful, but it should rev up like a sum bish.
HHO burns hot but very fast so it has no chance to migrate . The implosion has little heat at all. But solenoid might be the only way to go in testing. It should be pretty powerful really . There is always the multiple ignition concept as well if it does not produce the desired power output
Brilliant combustion cycle d3adp00l! ;D
I have a suggestion for the valves...
You could use a ball valve driven by a spocket/cam shaft.
I'd just make sure I had adiquate arrestors on HHO lines.
example:
http://www.xomox.com/Xomox/htdocs/northamerica/tufline/sleeved/flanged/067/withwrench.html
The problem is most ball valves are 50% on/off per rotation.
You'd need a larger internal pivot and a smaller through way
and you would have two combustion cycles per cam rotation.
Either way the reactor and the cylinder will equalize no prob.
Less energy conversion that way which should reduce losses.
~Dingus Mungus
Wish sometime would try burning hho in a nearly closed container. To get over-unity it might be necessary to get a plasma going...separating the electrons and recombining. An hho plasma could run a steam device at overunity. At first, water..until the temperature rises, then hho burning into hho = plasma with reduced hho input.
You mean to use the a plasma arc for electrolysis as well as combustion???
Like in a closed loop? You should post a design pic and a cycle discription.
~Dingus
No. If you fed hho in an inverted ceramic coffee cup,fed up through a hole in an iron plate, with another small hole for vacuum/expansion, you should get plasma formation. At first, you will get the hho into water, but after the heat rises, a plasma should form and you can turn the hho feed way down. A good hho heater can be made this way.
There is no arc, no combustion (hho implodes), no electrolysis. Only hho maintaining a plasma with little imput.
Robb077
Are you capable of building the device your are talking about?
I see this thing come up alot here, but my problem is I just don't understand it.
Can you put together a small prototype for the operating principle , just the dome/dish HHO plasma system itself no need for the steam engine and all. Seems you would create a sort of force feed sun. Start up a plasma and feed it HHO in a controlled way.
If you could build this thing or have any experiments could you post them please?
Ironhead:
You are a great builder. I was into building but old age set it, lol. Anyway, the principle is the same as Naudin describes as disassociated hydrogen and recombination releases more energy than it takes to cause it.,ie., overunity.
So I read the patent by a Korean company that makes HHO gas. It is described as an energy generating device capable of heating a nursery or chicken coop, a lot of heat!
The hho is made by electrolysis same as your lateral device. Then fed it , where it turns to water at first, then back to hho and into a plasma. the hho must be nearly shut off to prevent a meltdown.
I have read many of your post and you are a firm believer in this technology.
Do you have any more information on this process ? I think I have a small grasp on this
but would need to do a few small experiments to prove what I see in my head or what you have put there in your well placed posts.I need time and information to manifest this simple technology so that It could possibly become reality by my or another's hands.
I will post more about this in the Plasma Thread . Thank you , you have finally got my attention on this one . Sometimes it just takes some force to get my brain to see what my mind already does. I will do some CAD work on this first to help me further understand the possibilities .
Ironhead:
Great! I like the part about how our mind needs to adjust to what we see. Sounds like Schauberger....great quote there.
I was studying HHO gas and realized how fast it could heat metals...more energy than from the wall socket making the electrolysis ...and did some research for months.
I recommend you read the entire patent at the US Patent web site.
While I am working on building the tungsten plasma electrolysis with an engineer friend (I buy enough parts for two and he keeps one), Moab reminds me of the maintenance in the long run.
I think the hho heater... using hho from low-voltage electolysis (for no heat loss or bubbles) and a simple ceramic heater burning hho for the plasma ..might be generally very low maintenance.
Ironhead:
The technology is really Langmuir's. You proved it works with the plasma electrolysis. The ceramic heater using hho method is just no parts to wear out and possibly more user friendly.
Yes , I am starting to see how this works . And I should have much attention to this as winter is not far off . A heater cell that requires little maintenance is what I set out to do years ago with the plasma system . I just ended up in the middle of winter installing the experiment I was working on and went no further.
The more I think about the more important it becomes as there will be a need very soon.
The need outweighs the want
IronHead
The ceramic in the patent is aluminum oxide. Magnesium oxide is about 1000 degrees higher melting point...3000 c compared to 2000 c.
The question is what causes the plasma? It is the electrolysis of water AND the reburning of the ionized hho gas.
The ceramic heater is just a separation of the two components, which is good, because the metal parts are out of the plasma heat, which they should be to last. The plasma is still self-propagating, overunity and water based.
The technology is the same as the plasma electrolysis, just divided up into two stages.
The lack of compression leads to much less heat on the exothermic side of the reaction. The power is not in this phase of the motor, the real power is from the vacuum that is created when the hho is reduced to h20. The temp of hho at normal pressure burning won't melt plastic bottles, I doubt if there will be much heat transfered to the engine itself.
And as we all know if the temp in is the same as temp out and work is done then we have what we have been looking for. solenoids would be good but costly for the ones that would be needed to contain the engine.
true. Also I have done about 200 runs of implosion in a large plastic syringe there has been no trace of heat damage in any way. It was just cleaned up but you cleanly see no damage here.Sorry forgot to put the igniter in there. It just runs right up through the outer ring of the syringe tip.
I read thru the entire document; it seems as though the hi temps would give the input pipe fits... there ain't much air moving in thar.
In fact, the only input is HHO, with a vent in the top.
Materials integrity is fundamental to Kim's design, but I see no reason why it cain't be replicated- it's so dang simple it's scary
Turtle
BTW robb077; do let old age put off yer building- we old folk know a whole lot about what don't work in the first place...
"learn from the the mistakes of others- you'll never live long enough to make 'em all yerself"
Keith:
Maybe just use a sandblaster ceramic tip for the input into the vessel. Yeah, it is simple and no parts to wear out. Could use to heat or steam water for many uses.
The thing is just made from firebrick and ceramic so not so much to worry about integrity...just keep temp below 2000 C with these materials.
Maybe Ironhead can start a new thread for this...HHO Heater or whatever. Probably a good idea to have another thread to work on this.
I like the sandblast tip idea, so I got one with an eighth-inch bore. The green rod I got is 3/32, so I'll sleeve it with shrinkwrap to reduce stray current. I got a stainless whisk, and found that the nozzle can be cram-rammed thru the wires, and project the tip in the center of that thar elliptical chamber, although the radius is obscenely great, >1" at center. Shroud the outer periphery with SS steel wool, and that should work, I thought. Ain't tried it yet, cuz I came up with sumtin better.
Another trip to Target (it ain't on their site else I'd post it) yielded another whisk of a spiral-wrapped configuration, 316 SS, that has a progressively reduced radius, and a perfect round opening wherein the tip can be inserted, no "Boar-hogging" necessary (that's an old body shop term for making "Chinese no-fit" fenders go on the car).
Anyhow, I'll assemble this simple arrangement this week and post pics and results in the Cold Fusion thread. I'll parallel the bridges to keep heat down. Might even use two separate feeds (same phase), 4 bridges and watch the sparks fly <BIG GRIN>
More at the thread.
Turtle
HHO heater is best posted to the Plasma thread
thanks guys
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2058.new.html#new
EDIT FOR LINK
Where is that plasma thread? I don't think I've found it yet, and I must needs be there.
Turtle
Gracias, senior IronHead! I was there...
Too much basking in the sun today... baked the brain
Turtle
I am setting this project aside .