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Forwared by PaulLowrance:

Someone just posted this:

Quote
According to a commenter here:

http://dispatchesfromthefuture.com/2007/06/orbo_at_kinetica_museum_next_week.html

...a quick call to Kinetica revealed that they've "got a private exhibition" starting this week, which is "not curated by Kinetica". "It will be open to the public from Thursday" and last "all the way through from the 5th to the 13th", but unfortunately they "can't say anything about it".

This hasn't been verified, but Kinetica is just a phone call away... 020 7392 9674. Anyone on here living in London, willing to peek in Kinetica's windows? (Or scout the sidewalk for a smoking CEO?)

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0704/steorn.html

'Free energy' device to be revealed

Wednesday, 4 July 2007 11:03

An Irish company will today reveal controversial technology that allegedly defies basic laws of physics to produce free power.

Steorn, which is based in Dublin, claims to have discovered a method of creating clean, constant energy, which it claims could end the global fuel crisis.

Called Orbo technology, it is based on the interaction of magnetic fields and has yet to be conclusively proven or declared a hoax.

AdvertisementLast year, Steorn placed an advertisement in the Economist magazine and challenged the world's scientists to test its claims.

The company picked 22 of the world's leading scientists from Europe and the US for the review, which started in January and is not expected to be completed before the end of the year.

Steorn is contractually obliged to publish whatever the scientists conclude in full.

Today the invention will go on public display for the first time with a live working demonstration to be streamed on the internet from 6pm tonight.


Steorn Chief Executive Sean McCarthy has said the demonstration will involve a 'very simplified version' of the technology and it will be open to the public from Thursday 5 July to Friday 13 July at the Kinetica Museum at Spitalfields Market in London.

Sceptics can view the device lifting a weight from four different camera angles online.

Mr McCarthy said the company had decided against using the technology to illuminate a light-bulb as the use of wires would attract further suspicion from a scientific community that has already dismissed the device.

The company stumbled upon the technology while working with wind turbines to power remote surveillance CCTV cameras for ATM.

Steorn claims the so-called free energy would be able to power anything from mobile phones to cars, providing a potential solution to the global energy crisis.

Mr McCarthy revealed that if the technology is validated in scientific tests, the company plans to licence it over the internet to any company who wants it for 'a very small fee'.

User steve_whiss sent me this news about Steorn:

   
Heads up for Steorn

Hi,

expect you getting this on your radar - pls disregard if so.

Steorn due to show in RL and live webcam their tech today (Wed 4th July)

3 links below. Nothing actually happening as I write.

Steve

** link 1 a report:

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/national-news/business/irish-firm-to-put-freeenergy-machine-on-display-today-955545.html

Irish firm to put free-energy machine on display today

Wednesday July 04 2007

The Irish company which claims to have designed a machine that creates energy from thin air is due to put the technology on display today.

Steorn claims its Orbo device uses the interaction of magnetic fields to generate a constant source of free and clean energy.

If true, the technology would defy the laws of physics.

It is currently being tested by 22 of the world's top scientists, who are expected to conclude their review sometime next year.

In the meantime, Steorn is putting the Orbo on display in London and on the Internet later today.


** link 2: kinetica website

http://www.kinetica-museum.org/new_site/index.php?ptitle=home%20page&mfile=home.php

** link 3: Dispatches from the Future website article

http://dispatchesfromthefuture.com/2007/06/orbo_at_kinetica_museum_next_week.html

Anyone from London can try to go there today or the next few days ?

Please take a video camera with you and post afew videos,if you can see their
device.
Many thanks.

http://www.kinetica-museum.org/new_site/event_seminar_main.php?id=35

Now on their homepage they announce:

www.steorn.com

"View the online demonstration here at 6pm Eastern Time (ET)."

So maybe they will have a webcam feed online today ?

http://www.astream.com/live/steorn/camera4.html
http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/04/steorns-orbo-free-energy-machine-demonstrated-tomorrow/

 :-[ Don't you guys find the media coverage annoying? it does not actually defy the laws of physics. The problem is people still think a battery is the power source in a circuit, when it is actually the excited interaction between the vacuum and the electron that is the real source of the electrical energy input, the battery just creates the potential conditions to allow extraction from the vacuum, that is well know in quantum and particle physics. They should say it defies the 'Classical Electrodynamics Model' not the 'laws' of physics.

Steorn are digging themselves a hole by failing to address this point, it's perfectley explainable under modern physics.

Hi,

Stream on camera 4 coming up with a host-station announcement.

You will need Windows Media 11 (so XP / Vista only ... don't know if Linux or Mac people can see this)

Well, sounds like they have a wide-band link.

Steve

:)

well both me and Kinetica don't know when local and ET time is.

Here I am at the PC from 5:50 (6:10 now) and nothing but the astream hosting ad on video stream.

Kinetica within 30 secs of 6pm changed their front page to put up a Steorn flash banner - pointing to the demo site.

So Steorn do not mean 6pm UK time......... noticed the 6pm ET, but this is not on all mentioning pages.

So - what is 6pm ET in GMT ???????


Hah!  well off for lunch.

Steve

Short lunch.

1800 ET is 22:00 GMT / UTC - which is 11pm UK time (daylight saving / BST)

S

well. the camera's are working for me, but all I get is a view out of the window, and the london eye in the distance.
Oh well, wait and see.

Another nore from Paul Lowrance:

Steorn kept the their word. They said they would announce a media news release ~1 day ahead. Here are just a few -->

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2007/0704/breaking46.htm

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0704/steorn.html

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/national-news/business/irish-firm-to-put-freeenergy-machine-on-display-today-955545.html

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/breaking-news/ireland/business/article2734631.ece

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=40774

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhkfqlojgbcw/

http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2007/07/perpetual-machi.html

The streaming video from Kinetica Museum at Spitalfields Market in London is said to start at 6 pm GMT today.

I wish you could be there brother. I predict this will one day become the biggest moment in history. I recommend one of two test equipments (or both) for those who go:

* Infrared Thermometer gun.
* FIR video camera.

We need to try and see if the device is capturing ambient energy.


Regards,
Paul Lowrance

OK,

back at the PC.

The streaming media is NOT a loop (my 1st thought) as there are now lights on near the London Eye and reflection on LHS of glass.

From 6pm ET I still calculate 10pm GMT, 11pm UK time, that's 10pm CET (I think) i.e. just around 1hr 20mins from this post time (which looks like GMT / UTC to me)

But only one camera up still.

Steve

Hi guys,

Quote from: Clarky on July 04, 2007, 12:51:39 PM
They should say it defies the 'Classical Electrodynamics Model' not the 'laws' of physics.

I do agree with you...
Best

Grinding of teeth!

This now on Kinetica's front page- they have put back the live broadcast to tomorrow:

Steorn unveils the world's first free energy technology at Kinetica Museum

Steorn, an Irish technology development company, will publicly demonstrate a real-life application of its 'Orbo' free energy technology for the first time.

Steorn's 'Orbo' technology is based on the interaction of magnetic fields and allows the production of clean, free and constant energy. 'Orbo' technology is fully scalable and can be applied to virtually all devices requiring energy, from cellular phones to cars.

From 5th-13th July, visitors to Kinetica can witness for themselves 'Orbo' as it perpetually spins a clear polycarbonate wheel with absolutely no supply of external energy or power supply attached.

THE MUSEUM OPENS AT 11AM ON THURSDAY 5TH JULY

'Orbo' can also be watched via a live stream from 11am on 5th July by clicking on the banner at the top of this email. //I think they mean website - steve

Visit 'Orbo' at Kinetica Museum from 5th - 13th July, 11am - 6pm.

Kinetica Museum
SP2 Pavilion
Old Spitalfields Market
London

Kinetica: http://www.kinetica-museum.org/new_site/index.php?ptitle=home%20page&mfile=home.php


The present webcam feed: http://www.astream.com/live/steorn/camera4.html

is showing a live pic of Big Ben clocktower fuzzily showing real UK time.

Will stay here past 11 pm.

Steve

Their news page is updated now with this:

Steorn demonstrates free energy technology in public forum

Demonstration at Kinetica Museum, London, UK is world's first outing for Steorn's Orbo technology and will be streamed live around the world

London, 4th July 2007. Steorn, an Irish technology development company, will publicly demonstrate a real-life application of its Orbo free energy technology for the first time. The demonstration will take place in the Kinetica Museum gallery, London UK on Wednesday 4th July. People around the world will be able to watch the exhibit via a live web stream.

The real-time streaming of the Orbo free energy technology demonstration can be accessed via steorn.com/orbo/demo from 6pm Eastern Time (ET) today. People logging onto the link can select different camera angles so they can see the exhibit from various positions. The Kinetica Museum exhibit will thereafter be open to members of the public from Thursday July 5th until Friday July 13th.

Steorn's Orbo technology is based on the interaction of magnetic fields and allows the production of clean, free and constant energy. The exhibit on display will demonstrate work being done by the spinning of a clear polycarbonate wheel with no recourse to external energy. Orbo technology is fully scalable and can be applied to virtually all devices requiring energy, from cellular phones to cars.

On 18th August 2006, Steorn placed an advertisement in The Economist to attract the attention of the world's leading scientists working in the field of experimental physics. The advertisement issued a challenge to the world's scientific community to step forward and prove its claims wrong.

Several thousand scientists stepped forward to take the challenge, but only 22 were appointed to test Steorn's claims. The review process began in January 2007 and is still ongoing. Steorn will publish the results of the process following its completion.

Sean McCarthy, CEO of Steorn, commented: "We've decided to demonstrate our Orbo technology in a global and public forum to raise greater awareness amongst the product development community. We want to give equal access to developers so they can use this technology to power products that will bring benefits to everyone. Ultimately, it's also a reminder to the world that this free energy technology is being validated and will definitely happen.

"We expect the vast majority of our audience to view the exhibit online, but rather than just stream a demonstration of the technology from an undisclosed location, we purposely decided to have a tangible working device that people could come and physically see for themselves."

The exhibition at the Kinetica Museum, in Spitalfields Market, East London, will be open for a private view only today but will be open to the public from every day from 11am to 7pm, Thursday 5th July until Friday 13th July inclusive, when the exhibition will close. Admission is free and the museum is based at SP2 Pavilion, Spitalfields Market, London E1 6AA.

Ends

Notes to the editor:

Steorn was founded in 2000 and has developed cutting edge technologies for third parties, including optical disc forensic analysis and plastic card fraud prevention technologies. It is now focused on the commercialisation of its Orbo free energy technology.

::)  ;D

Well at 11pm the feed stopped for about 30 secs or so then came back with a voice loop and the clocktower again. Still nothing at 11:11

So that's it for today I think - try again tomorrow at:

  10am GMT,
  11am BST (UK time)
  6am ET
  10am CET

Steve

PS is ANYONE going to go see this thing in RL ?

0:17 Here in Berlin Germany, Big Ben on their Camera also shows 23:17
and ET clock time shows 18:17 on the Internet time...
Seems they have moved it to tommorow...

Well I will check again in 45 minutes to see, if they mixed up a timezone or so...

Regards, Stefan.

Now also their homepage at
www.steorn.com
says:

"Due to technical difficulties we will now be live from London on the 5th July."

Okay, just another night to sleep and then we will hopefully see it.

I found at least some seminar videos of Steorn over here:

http://z8d.no-ip.info/lecture/

Enjoy,
also browse the other dierctories there for some more infos...

Now,

wouldn't it be a larf if their tech only works in Ireland - or at ground level?

(they are near same height as the face of Big Ben's clock)

:(

Steve

This guy thinks he has found out, how
Steorn?s motor works ?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=nv91OSQyB_I

http://youtube.com/watch?v=EeEhKH47Vdo

Hi everybody,

Some comments from the Steorn forum:

Quote"Yep. Pretty much another disapointing Steorn production so far. I'm still listening to the continuous blather astream - when I'm lucky enough to get the feed at all. I'm looking forward to the end of that music and that pompous womans voice - and the beginning of the promised live performance."

Quote"A pompous lady constantly repeating something about quality videostreaming bla bla bla"

Is Steorn going to perpetually vaste our time and sap our patience?

Best

Maybe someone can record the live stream with such a tool :
http://all-streaming-media.com/record-video-stream/record-streaming-video-windows-media.htm

Oh great >:(
looks like the orbo is not working
Quote:-

"We are experiencing some technical difficulties with the demo unit in London. Our initial assessment indicates that this is probably due to the intense heat from the camera lighting. We have commenced a technical assessment and will provide an update later today. As a consequence, Kinetica will not be open to the public today (5th July). We apologise for this delay and appreciate your patience."

Sound's like more excuses. Why do I get the feeling we are never gonna see this thing working?

What a bunch of amateurs are these Steorn people ????

They had over one year to prepare this demo and now it
seems to be dependant on the lighting of a few bulbs for the webcamera ?
Why don?t they just take fluorescent bulbs
or something simular ?
I would have worked all night long to get it going, now they
are not able to fix this small problem in a few hours ??

Man oh man.... some people just don?t get it...

I'm hoping they wanted a lot of light because the orbo on display is transparent. Having four good camera angles as well as an appealling walk-around for guests is not easy.

Thanks for the lecture videos.

hmmm...

this all goes to show how difficult it is to prove stuff.

I have every confidence that they put effort in, with several staff advising and fiddling with kit.

That costs $$$ in wasted time and salaries. SO - given that guys with several K to throw at a demo have these problems, what then for guys like us? How do we water-tight prove something?

What I'm saying - just proving the point is difficult even for people who can dump money and effort into a situation.


The issues they stub their toes on will seem 100% random. I expect they hired a professional team with cameras, lights and all - set their demo up, threw the switch (so to speak) - and nothing.

This shows the value of dry runs and end-end (full system working) testing.


What else could it be?

a) the tech is a bust, it don't work
---- fraud or delusion all along

b) the tech draws power from something local in Ireland yet missing in London
---- a radar or hi-power TV / radio / powerline in Ireland has unwittingly powered it all along

c) the tech would work OK but is blocked in London (= b with a stopper)
---- something about London blocks the operational effect (Wifi smog, who knows?)

d) sabotage
---- the men in black have swapped out the magnets or remotely beam a power stopper at it

e) a situational defect
---- wrong assembly, temps out, mechanically out of balance, bad bearing etc


* the "powers that be" have a lot to loose if this thing is seen to work
* the best outcome for the powers that be - is a public fizzle & no bang, just like cold fusion.

:) which way is this heading?  :( anyone on the Steorn forums know if they had security presence of any sort ??


My hope is that this is just a good old fashioned c@><k up.

Steve

Hi Stefan,
I think calling Steorn "amateurs" is a bit strong.
Every new technology has "teething" problems - who could have predicted the result of pointing several high power halogen lamps at a small acrylic device.

I am convinced that they are true to their word and that the problems are genuine.

Just need to wait a little longer for the proof.  ;)

Regards
Rob

The teething problems seem to never end!

Now camera 3 is working:

http://www.astream.com/live/steorn/camera3.html

So is 1 and 2  (may take a short while before the picture comes through)

Unfortunately the device is missing atm - could have been fun to take a peek  ;D

If you look at camera 3 it is limited how much lighting there is in the room.. Can't quite get it to fit with their excuse: "Our initial assessment indicates that this is probably due to the intense heat from the camera lighting."

There's no large lamps close by, and camera 1 shows a nice clear shot of some acrylic wheel.

Now I could grab one picture of a wheel inside the glas box.
But it is not rotating.
Seems they have dissassembled it..
There are the magnets missing...

They have technical problems, and have put back the
opening till Friday:
http://www.kinetica-museum.org/new_site/index.php?ptitle=Future%20Exhibitions&mfile=event_exhibition_main.php?mode=future

But let us not get too excited; videos mean little. Without data
and drawings, all we will learn is that perspex is transparent.
Paul.

someone have a photos of the complete device before they remove it?

Here is another camera 4 angle view , so there you can see some spot lights
probably heating the plexiglas too much,
so there was too much friction from this plexiglas wheel,
as CEO Sean said in their forum.

Hmm, didn?t they think about when they had planned the exhibition ?
They should have used better bearings...

If the device won't work inside with that small amount of lightning, it will work even worse if placed outside in the sun.
There appear to be around 13 spotlights. I presume they are rated at a maximum of 60W each. Most are pointed at the walls, and only a few at the center of the room.
Even if all of the lights were pointed directly at the device, which appears to take up 1m^2, the Watts/m^2 is:
13*60 = 780Watts/m^2  (This is assuming that 100% of the energy is directed at the device, which it isn't)
- The sun gives off well over 1kW/m^2 outside on a blue sky day.

I'm not buying it  ::)

its not related to the light, I am sure its another thing they don't want to talk about it :D

Is this a demonstration of the final product or some ad-hoc toy to showcase the perpetual motion? I was under the impression it was the later on display as just a weight is being lifted. I'm curious if the weight return will buffer the force of gravity?

@TheOne

They use intense light as an excuse.  ;D


But I agree with you - the reason may be that it isn't OU, but just a commercial stunt.

@all

I'm becoming a believer in Irish Jokes! Very laughable for making such a splash.

chrisC

Still not fixed and
now it is already 5 pm in London. over here
in Berlin already 6 pm .

If it is only due to too much friction
from the plexiglas wheel versus the other plexiglas stand,
I wonder, why they don?t yet have just rearranged the
spot lights and use indirect light for the room ?

They could just point all the spots to the ceiling and then the
indirect light will be okay for this presentation.
Okay, at night the webcam could be a bit grainy,but
anyways, it could be probably seen quite still okay then.

Hmm...

Also for such a big demo,
wouldn?t you bring a second unit  as a backup device, if the first one
will get broken or stolen ???

Well, it seems they did not study Murphy?s law... :o

Stephan, you are quite right!

Plexiglass unit should not cost that much, for a big event like that, why they don't have 2-3 units instead of just one?

It's really looks like amateur, more then we are :)

   I think a good stunt alright. How best to make you want it more. Give you just a small taste and then take it away for a while. Next time it will taste even better. All boils down to MARKETING ploy. Oh maybe not too.

sugra

Okay, the lighting is too bright and the heat too intense?
Solution1: Strap on a pair of UV sun-glasses and put on some sun block! That should kick start it.

Solution2: Failing that how about turning down the temperature control so we have a ice cold room to dissipate heat from the surface of the plexi glass so this thing can have a chance to spin?

Solution3: Also, don't forget... this thing is supposed to "Spin a wheel" or "Lift a weight" too? Maybe they should have brought a back-up hamster?

Take your pick Streon.

chrisC

and the funny part is they have like 2-3 computers all around the device but only one not working device!

Is this the rotor wheel ?

http://bp2.blogger.com/_yPqD1_uhkoo/RozvxPckC4I/AAAAAAAAABw/vHorTnwWB_A/s1600-h/steorn_kinetica_06.jpg


Here are a few more pics from the location:

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/0,1000000091,39287880-5,00.htm

If you look at the additional infos
you can find here,
it seems the rotor laying on the table has 4 small
magnets at each 90 degrees of this disc and the disc
sits in the center to the plexiglas stator.

The slots were one can see still one iron or bar magnet rod
probably hold all the other iron or magnet rods.

Maybe these are just iron rods or ferrite magnet rods?

You can see, that these angled tangential slots are spaced this way, that
there is always an imbalance, so there is probably always a force into
one direction..

http://freeenergytracker.blogspot.com/

it's maybe copper too, copper seam to change the fall speed when inside a tube, it's maybe an effect related to copper making the wheel always unbalanced, so some kind of gravity wheel with magnet and copper

http://community.zdnet.co.uk/blog/0,1000000567,10005596o-2000331777b,00.htm#comment20085929 (http://community.zdnet.co.uk/blog/0,1000000567,10005596o-2000331777b,00.htm#comment20085929)

Hi,

I'm new here but thought I'd drop in. Fasinating stuff if it actually works. Also have been closely following the Steve Mark's stuff.

agile

I guess I can understand how sometimes things don't go as planned, we are all human afterall, and prone to mistakes. Sometimes new materials/setups/location changes can cause unforseen problems.

Personally, I see myself in these guys. I have been trying to get something running for months, and always a new problem pops up. Some material change doesn't work, new equipment causes problems; or further research pushes things in another direction to try some other procedure or setup. I can only imagine the nasty things that are being said about me and the hydrogen setups I have attempted as well.

For the benefit of the doubt, I look at them the way I look at myself right now. Good intentions, but under pressure to perform with new ideas and technology that no one else has publically demonstrated before. So let's cut everyone some slack right now and look at it with a bit more patience and understanding. I am sure we all have ideas on how WE would do it; but remember, WE are not the ones doing the demonstrating right now. Let's also face the fact that we ARE all a bunch of amateurs in the overunity game. I don't see anybody on this site getting paid to produce free energy right now. That is the definition of an amateur.

So from one amatuer to all you other amateurs, how about we just wait and see. I know we are all impatient right now because of all the hype. Let's just all mellow out.

8) 8) 8)  Peace y'all!

I think, Steorn ought to get rid of all these magnets, wheel, lights, plexi glass, investor's millions, blu tack, drills, road show, major press release etc etc.

All they need is paul's floating /spinning ball and YouTube

1 beaker with water
1 plastic ball
1 steel ball bearing
1 magnet
1 cooper plate

http://youtube.com/watch?v=EeEhKH47Vdo

cheers
chrisC

Has everyone heard the Steorn tunes?

http://www.steorn.com/about/fun/tunes.aspx

:-P

Um.

The still of the plexi device with angled slots - immediately reminds me of the angles of magnets used in the Perendev wheel. This = Perendev tech variant?

If so, this goes all the way back to Dr.Johnson's team c. 1975 (spintronics?) who had the angled magnets pushing a cart along a track with 8lb lead on it.

Dr.J's team also gave a full description, wrote a book and made a video presentation explaining the lot.

This is all available via Tom Bearden's website: http://www.cheniere.org/books/HoJo/p1.htm

Perendev took this tech, rolled the track into a circle (well, 2 side clams = arcs of circle) and made a rotor turn.


A mock up of Johnson's track on YouTube (not as good as the DVD version) track: http://youtube.com/watch?v=UZD1cfkekuc

Notice the run from about 1:03 on with a little white jeep toy. The toy gets kicked about a foot out from the magnets - therefore ignoring losses - the acceleration imparted exceeds magnetic breaking so OU.

** That is a proof ** OU from static PM proven by mechanical means.


New Problem: Johnson's, Perendev showing off this tech for decades (32 years) to yawns from the world.

SO why should Steorn think the world will sit up and go "WoW!" now???

Steve

Yep, Paul's rolling ball video excellent. Another proof. Dense me took a few views to realise the steel ball was inside a plastic one...

I wonder, why Steorn wanted to do atall such a live demo ?

A well done video would have also done it and would not have been so costly...

Anyway, here is a link,
where you can see all 4 webcams together in one webpage:


http://z8d.no-ip.info/cam

I wonder , if they really get it to work from  tommorow on.

Quote from: chrisC on July 05, 2007, 01:50:02 PM
I think, Steorn ought to get rid of all these magnets, wheel, lights, plexi glass, investor's millions, blu tack, drills, road show, major press release etc etc.

All they need is paul's floating /spinning ball and YouTube

1 beaker with water
1 plastic ball
1 steel ball bearing
1 magnet
1 cooper plate

http://youtube.com/watch?v=EeEhKH47Vdo

cheers
chrisC

Whew...
:: Wipes brow ::
Well I'm glad all this research is over, someone should call Steorn
and let them know we can all stop now... The solution is on Youtube!
Now I'll just go kick back and wait untill I can buy a spinning iron ball in a tube.
I might even stop buying equipment and start buying instant lottery tickets!

~Dingus Mungus
:D  ::)  :D

hartiberlin, do you believe the world culture is ready for free energy? So many ideas stand in direct contradiction. On several occasions I have approached serious scientists to rationally talk of possiblities and they refuse to entertain the notion! They value their membership in organizations over the structure of nature, and only work on science that fits the mainstream model. Honestly, I care more about opening minds than Steorn bringing free energy to the masses. Maybe Steorn thinks the same way?

we need free energy before will kill our own planet, it's already to late but it's late then never no?

Always think positively !

The good minds are always stronger than the bad minds.

Quote from: TheOne on July 05, 2007, 08:50:29 PM
we need free energy before will kill our own planet, it's already to late but it's late then never no?

MLK - "Now is the time."

We are still learning from the dead - it's never too late. Who is to say free energy will not destroy the planet, too? It seems clear the planet of tomorrow will not be the planet of today.

Well all the cameras are up and appear to be live!
(based on seeing fading LED on mac monitors)
One problem though:
No movement in the device!!!
It's going to be the 6th and already 3 days wasted time.
I hope these blokes have a good plan for this morning...
In the days of down time they could have mailed a new demo from IR.
One of them could have took a flight to grab it and been back in hours!
Can they really have only one functioning demo? I doubt it...

~Dingus Mungus

This thing looks suspiciously like the Takahashi engine(attached jpeg). A certain smell is becoming noticeable! Even from a "fresh" idea!

Apparently this is a pure permanent magnet device ie. no wires no electronics etc. as they do not want accusations of hidden batteries or other psu's

Quote from: chrisC on July 05, 2007, 01:50:02 PM
I think, Steorn ought to get rid of all these magnets, wheel, lights, plexi glass, investor's millions, blu tack, drills, road show, major press release etc etc.

All they need is paul's floating /spinning ball and YouTube

1 beaker with water
1 plastic ball
1 steel ball bearing
1 magnet
1 cooper plate

http://youtube.com/watch?v=EeEhKH47Vdo

cheers
chrisC

Hi all,
I have made a simulation in wm2d of a magnetic shield material and how the only existence of this can automatically transform in a OU machine (I think Steorn work something like this).
I have made it as simple as possible.

Here are the screenshot and model in wm2d.

There is life!

Live people seen walking about.

Steorn's news article now says "...decided to postpone the demonstration until further notice ... next few weeks" !!!

http://www.steorn.com/news/releases/?id=1001

text below:

Steorn announcement: Kinetica Demonstration

Further to Steorn?s announcement yesterday (5th July) regarding the technical difficulties experienced during the installation of its ?Orbo? technology at the Kinentica Museum in London, Steorn has decided to postpone the demonstration until further notice.

Sean McCarthy CEO stated that ?technical problems arose during the installation of the demonstration unit in the display case on Wednesday evening. These problems were primarily due to excessive heat from the lighting in the main display area. Attempts to replace those parts affected by the heat led to further failures and as a result we have to postpone the public demonstration until a future date.?

He continued that ?we apologise for the inconvenience caused to all the people who had made arrangements to visit the demonstration or were planning on viewing the demonstration online.?

Over the next few weeks the company will explore alternative dates for the public demonstration.

:(

Oh boy. --- Bummer! :-\

Quote:-

We have had to make the unfortunate decision to deffer the public demonstration of our technology that was due to start on the 4th. I am very sorry that we have had to take this decision, I will provide a more detailed explanation of the reasons behind the decision later.

I would like to invite any of the forum members (SPDC or otherwise) who are in London to meet me at 15:00 here in Kinetica, were I will be available to answer any questions.

Very sorry about this, hope to see some of you at 15:00.

Thanks,

Sean




Anyone going down to give them a grilling?

If they really have wanted to show something, then why they don?t now
show a video of it ?

I have the suspicion, that it was all setup this way, to disprove
the whole overunity research community.

So they are doing more harm now to us than to help us with plot...

If they don?t show in the next few days at least a video of a working device,
they are not worth anymore in my oppinion to considder.

Regards,Stefan.

since this company exist, i never trusted them, they talk a lot but show nothing, all the video on you tube, you only see the face of the guys from steon, i dont care about ther face, i care about the device and so far i see nothing from them, my conclusion so far is they are done no shit its pure bullshit!

if this is true then show video at least and make something that work!

Oh boy i was sure nothing will come out from this demo...

Here is a blog with some more information and video of the place, where it was
supposed to be shown, the Kinetica museum in London:

http://freeenergytracker.blogspot.com/

what a major disappointment!! i have been looking 4ward to this for months. if they were genuine they could have showed us some footage from when the thing was running a few days ago! why just set it up like this - what a crock of crap!! If this has been done to discourage us from making something that works they'll have to try a lot harder. if they do have something that works then they must show it in the next few days otherwise we can only assume it does not work or they have been persuaded by the powers that be to pretend it is a scam when it actually does work.

Quoted from the Steorn's website under Investor Relations:

"Steorn is a private limited Irish company. Shares in the company are not publicly traded. Due to the contentious nature of our technology claim the company made a decision that during the process of validation we would seek no further funding."

So if they had nothing to gain by all this pomp and circumstance, why would they do it if it was a fake? That's why I don't see INTENTIONAL deception here. Maybe the technology just doesn't work and they are finding out the terrible truth of their error for themselves.

I wonder if they started off with traditional theatre lighting which are
usually 1KW each, and magnets exceeded their Curie point. Some
materials have an astonishingly low Curie point. What is it for Neos?
Paul.

@ Paul-R
From: http://www.matchrockets.com/ether/magfaqs.html#q15
Neodymium magnets, for example, begin to lose their magnetization at temperatures as low as 300 F.
That's 148 degrees C.

Since the model is transparent it is limited how high the temperature would rise inside the chamber, as most of the light would pass straight through it.

IMHO if they started out with ++kW of lights they were just setting up for an excuse.
It also doesn't answer the question of why they didn't bring a backup system, or at least a video showing it running.

Anyone have photos of this kinetica thing from all sides? I would like to see how it is constructed and maybe to replicate,
but I cannot because it seems camera 2 is setup in a way it doesn't show device from the side. I think it is on purpose. But maybe some visitors have photos? Or like in that short video from one visitor, didn't his camera have any zoom??? arghhhhh

s.

Can you imagine being Sean and facing all the questions and disappointment - no envy here for that man!

Their crediblity plummets like a lead balloon. Without a doubt they are not being honest about the failure, and there is nothing to gain from the series of blunders save for reduced expectations. It is exactly the opposite of what any company hopes for.

It's like they are all stoned.

It seems that Steorn -- if they are at all legitimate -- are a group of people who do not see free energy for the world as important as lining their own pockets. Being of the same general mindset that is polluting this planet, they deserve to look like fools.

Perhaps the universal-deciding-factor as to whether or not a planet has free energy, is the evolution of open, compassionate and unselfish consciousness.

We're just not there yet.

j

Hi,

...the issue is ethics and morals in commerce.

This stuff costs a bunch. It's fine to make a profit which keeps you going, pays the bills, the salaries, buildings, new research. IF Steorn had say 5 guys working full time for 2 years on this - then with a WCP of x2 (=overheads factor) then that is = 10 guys at say $50,000 per annum each so 1/2 mil a year.

They could easy have sunk a mil into this one by now, so unless they are paid behind the scenes to make this fail (don't really think so) then this is a major problem for them - they would never plan to throw that money.

You want them to go bust? - that would send a message - "Don't bother" to every FE concern.


The problem comes when companies form a monopoly or cartel, use that to smother new competition then rip people off. Just taking more and more $ with no ceiling in sight.

Then you get into the race of who can make the most profit.... the suits who are in this for ego and shoveling the worlds wealth as fast as possible into the bottomless maw of - often - people who are already wealthy enough that they don't need think where the next car (-house -plane -yacht) comes from.

Don't know how this can be fixed unless capital is split between core needs and frivolous toy money for the mindlessly rich.

This is a genuine problem - any unrestrained "-ism" forms a tyranny.

Balance is all; long term survival demands it.

Steve

Hi, i'm new here....my first contribution is a quote from zdnet which I believe is worth reading.

bcockriel's setup on youtube seems to make more sense than Steorn at this time.

Quote
bart0120 join the queue of people that think that magnetic shielding
will get them excess energy. Perhaps Steorn are ahead of you in the queue. As head of research at a company that used to make magnetic shielding I have met a lot such as you. Most seem to think that magnetic shielding works like opaque paper to a magnetic field. It works by diverting the field around the shielded object and it takes as much energy to insert the shield in the field as can be gained from the shielded object.

Unless the laws of electromagnetism are wrong magnetic fields are rigorously conservative. If you move a configuration of magnetic objects around and get back to the starting configuration there will be zero net energy change. This is what Steorn claim to have disproved but engineers have used those laws to predict the behaviour of millions of configurations and have always found the laws obeyed. The chances of a fairly simple configuration of common materials providing net energy gain when no discrepancy has
ever been found are very small.

If all they are doing is spinning a balanced wheel with no net energy
output and slight problems with the bearings or light level can stop it they are at best generating microwatts. Even if it were valid this amount of power from a sizeable device is of no practicable use
and it is amenable to fraudulent energy inputs such as a light air current.



Posted by Nick Rouse on Jul 6, 2007 10:34 AM

I'm happy to write the company off. It's bad PR management, no matter how you approach it.

As for the technology... I'll wait until the independent consultants' report is released, and pass my judgment then. That is, if it is.

Isn't anyone from Overrunity on that taskforce? Stefan?

Does anyone know anyone who knows anything about Steorn?

Hmmmm.

Mark.

Steorn has sunk ?8 million into Orbo in the last three years.

That could buy tons of Open OU research. :)

does anyone know if sean was there at 15:00? and if so what did he say?

From:
http://freeenergytracker.blogspot.com/

Friday, July 6, 2007
3pm Update Details

Whitelite is the first to report details from Steorn's 3pm Update:

    Anyway it was open to the public at that specific time and there were lot's of people taking pictures and filming, (with no objections from Steorn), so I'm sure someone will stick something on YouTube in no time, (if they haven't done it already!).

I'll post any additional information from others in this blog entry, if more appears.

    The general gist of the discussion was Sean apologising profusely about the lack of any demo or device, (at that time), and basically taking the blame for the whole thing and saying that everyone else at Steorn was advising that the 3 days Sean requested the engineers to make the demo machine was too short.

3 days to build the demo unit? I'm sure a lot more time went into finding quotes for posters, etc.

    I talked to a nice bloke who is a Kinetica staff member and I believe he said that Kinetica could still host things up to the 16th if the wanted but beyond that there are some major building works going on next door, (like digging up the pavements), so I can't see the demo continuing beyond there. Incidentally the guy was very complimetary about Steorn and he said Kinetica had a great relationship with them.

From Kinetica's perspective, this must all be some form of art project. I doubt it a botched over unity demo will heart their credibility at all. I hope we get a more detailed account of the Q&A portion of the update.

I took some screen shots of the gathering for your enjoyment:

Look them up at:
http://freeenergytracker.blogspot.com/

Lame excuses from CEO Sean in this video from the 3 pm gathering:

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-410336726209552529

How can heat damage the bearings ???

No drop of oil anymore available at his place ???

Why didn?t they change the ligthing in the room then ?

I have the suspicion, that , although their ORBO might work,
there was an order from "above" not to show it...

All these extreme lame excuses make them look very stupid and
embarrasing !

You should expect, that a watchmaker is nearby somewhere in London
and there could be bought a few new bearings for a few British Pounds, right ?

So these are probably not very special bearings...

Also at the end when one visitor asked, if Sean can show the remaining rotor parts of the
3 devices, he just says:
"We have brought them to a manufacturer already to check the bearings..."

What a lame excuse, couldn?t he even show a picture of it then ???

I only scan smell snake oil or gag oder excuses not to show it and I would
be very embarrassed myself to give such excuses, if I would be Sean...

If I would be an investor in this Steorn company,
I would probably be very angry with them by now...

It's possible the whole Steorn thing was orchestrated from "above" (maybe at much much higher levels) as a means of discrediting the whole Free Energy community as a whole.

They did get the world's attention, now they're "red in the face", but as I say, perhaps that was the intended purpose  ???

Darren

Yes, Darren,
I have the same opinion by now, so if they won?t show anything in the next 14 days,
this was probably all setup to discredit the whole free energy research movement.

By the way, is there any public list, which scientists did get any devices or informations
from them ?
Maybe they didn?t at all gave anything out to any scientists ??

I can unfortunately not register in their forum, so I can?t search there
for any recent updates.

Regards, Stefan.

Stefan:

Well, I said they did everything right, i.e created the spinning wheel with specific magnets, made the plexi glass cage it, did the press release, got the museum to reserve the space, created a whole lot of attention and then?

They forgot to bring the hamster!

Ouch!

cheers
chrisC

Hi ChrisC,
if it would not be this sad, I could laugh,
but Steorn just made the whole free energy research community now
look stupid to the normal scientific world.....

But I just got a supportive email from Paul Sprain about his newest EMILE
magnet motor-generator device.
Paul Sprain writes, I quote:


"I believe the orbo is just a modified "Minato-type" machine and the
magnets are in the repulsive position. This will cause the rotor to spin for
several days however they will soon degauss and stop.

This is what happened
to steorn, they thought they could build it upstairs at the museum and put
it on display for the world to see.

Only trouble was because of the lights
the box got 20 degrees or so too hot and caused the magnets to prematurely
degauss.

But remember that steorn knows that the magnets would degauss in a
short period of time, so in the end they are full of shit.


The reason my
device works is because the magnets are in the attractive position and will
not degauss for at least 100 yrs.

I'm sorry to tell you this but these people from steorn are completely full
of BS. They don't have anything and never will. And even if the little
plastic rotor did turn they still have to make a commercially viable machine
putting out KW's of power. They have a LONG LONG way to go.



Paul"

P.S: Who is not familar with the Paul Sprain devices,
have a look into here:

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Harry_Paul_Sprain_magnet_motor

There is still only the old motor to see.
I have already seen a few pics of the new device !
It will blow you away , I can tell  you ! ;)

Regards, Stefan.

Stefan:

Is Paul Sprain's machine on YouTube or is there a recent video available anywhere?  Thanks.

chrisC

Hi Stefan,

As you know, I?m interested in the strictly scientific side of the issue and for me degaussing is not of any concern whatsoever, as long as the machine spins by itself without external energy input.

On the other hand, obviously tuning up of such a machine is the biggest issue, not fully resolved by now. This was the problem, I guess, with Torbay and it reappeared with Steorn as well. To tell you the truth, I regret that I didn?t go to Argentina to see personally Torbay?s machine on site. Any time such a machine is moved to another location the fine adjustments get out of place, and combined with the pressure from the expectant public, results in a disaster. Torbay, for instance, put a lot effort, I was told, day after day during the week he was here in New York City to set the machine in motion but away from his lab it turned impossible. Similar thing, I guess, happened with Steorn, plus, as far as I understand, they weren't intending to show their actual device but were about to demonstrate some kind of a plexiglass replica of it. Why did they do that beats me.

If one is interested in the practical side, however, probably the brute force approach of Paul Sprain would be the successful engineering solution since the tune-up problem doesn?t seem to be so severe there. The question with Paul Sprain?s motor is how to really confirm it?s really overunity. With SMOT proving overunity is pretty straightforward and this is the only experiment I know of  to really violate CoE. SMOT isn?t practical, though, especially when producing excess energy discontinuously.

Unfortunately, while in SMOT one can convincingly prove overunity quite simply, without resorting to making it self-sustaining, in Paul Sprain?s motor it seems mandatory to demonstrate it in self-sustaining mode to prove it?s really perpetuum mobile. Paul was mentioning before that he?s working towards making it self-sustaining. Do you know what the status of that is?

Quote from: chrisC on July 07, 2007, 01:37:15 AM
Stefan:

Is Paul Sprain's machine on YouTube or is there a recent video available anywhere?  Thanks.

chrisC

Hi Chris,
Paul Sprain just confirmed to me via email, that he and his company had  ordered
youtube and google to pull down his videos.

So no involvement from any MIBs.   ;D

But the new device will be shown to the public.
Please be still a bit patient.

Regards, Stefan.

Quote from: Omnibus on July 07, 2007, 02:03:09 AM
The question with Paul Sprain?s motor is how to really confirm it?s really overunity.

He will be running a selfrunning device powering a bank of light bulbs.
So not a tiny ORBO, but a powerful Wattage output from a selfrunner device !
;)

Quote from: Omnibus on July 07, 2007, 02:03:09 AM
...
With SMOT proving overunity is pretty straightforward and this is the only experiment I know of  to really violate CoE. SMOT isnââ,¬â,,¢t practical, though, especially when producing excess energy discontinuously.
...

Why do you think so? As nobody has succeeded in looping a smot, smot is not proved to be OU device, question of magnetic potential which is not the same at the start and end point. The evidence is not yet available.

A new Star for the enthusiastic s born.
So we count the Replays  on his topic and hope and hope hope
Like we have done with Mike and Bobmary and Chas and Steorn and many others.
At least we are prepared to receive the good news,because we all ready  tuned.

helmut

Quote from: hartiberlin on July 07, 2007, 01:06:57 AM
On the new machine we are getting 222 Nm at 52 radians. The maximum I can put
into the Electro-Magnet is 110 volts at 9 amps firing 33 times a second.
As you can see the input is nowhere near what the output power is.
(added by admin: Output is a huge 12.5 KWatts, while the input is just 200 Watts only !)

Paul"

Last machine he did, he told us that it cost him one million dollars over 4 years.
What??? Is this guy for real? And 4 years on that simple setup????
http://www.zpenergy.com/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=1756
That simple machine and it's labor should have cost several thousands at maximum. Not one million.
And he did not even use expensive Neodymium magnets (I read this at a site I can't find anymore).

Unless Pual Sprain does everthing right this time and follows the rules to avoid behaving like the
typical Free Energy scam guy and being believed he must avoid the behaviors stated at this site:
http://amasci.com/freenrg/fnrg.html

Some quotes from this site:
The invention is unproven. It has not yet splashed itself across news headlines worldwide.
"NEW SOURCE OF ENERGY DISCOVERED IN USA!" Nope. Scams always involve unproven inventions.
Unproven inventions might or might not be real. But scammers often hide behind this fuzzy status.

The inventor either keeps the device secret, or their patent lacks some critical information and
nobody can build a working copy based on the patent. (A small critical piece of info remains secret.)

His first demo was a joke. The only way to get acknowledge is to let his invention being independently
tested and verified by an impartial test group of people that will continuously report their findings.
He must not hide any details and also encourage other people to build and verify his results.
Once this happens we just "might" have free energy. If not I just won't believe what he's saying.
No scientifically verified proof = Real Scam

Sorry being so harsh.
I'm just so fed up by all the "secrecy" and "lack of proof" that always involves free energy.

By the way. Look at #8 at this link: http://amasci.com/freenrg/fnrg.html
Doesn't it fit Steorn just perfectly. They have almost followed the scam guidelines by the book.

Ok, Suppose you sink the value of your house into building any new tech.

After any number of false starts, 2 years of hiring specialists and lab space, built kit which didn't work quite right - you end up with a few hundred bucks of the right hardware apparently doing something a member of the public would never think twice about (they have seen stuff moving before).

Then not ask for any money. So - that means you are a scam artist?


Then I'm a scam artist too for selling a house for market value, not what it cost me.

Interesting point here. The kitchen is nicely tiled; about $150 bucks of materials. But it was a fiddly job (black grout). The tiler charged me $1200 because it took a week.

So - thats a scam too? Or is it OK for me to pay him enough that HE can afford have a home and drive a car?


The mould for the exterior plastic case of a house phone selling for $80 - might have cost $30,000 to machine. And the same again to design.

The values come down and turn profit - by selling x 100,000 phones.

But the cost of the 1st finished working phone will be based on tens of man-years of work costing into millions.

** Someone has to find and spend that money to get that far **

So that is a scam????? Even not to get your money back? Is it a scam to report that you employ staff who expect to be fed and live in a home?


The FE community really need to understand that money is needed because buying kit and peoples time costs money - and the numbers are not small. The typical effort is in the "number of house values" for anything better then a toy.

Do not be deluded by the Open Source / GNU Linux people. They have the advantage that they sit at the top of a technological pyramid intensely developed and operational since the 1940's, benefiting from monies likely exceeding billions poured in over the years.

It would be different for them, too, if every OS project started "first build a computer. We have no concrete idea how these work, but reading a book about tube radios and having lots of wire might help...."


I've got to mention the false hope of making a design that works "open source". Suppose that happens. Will it get deployed?

No manufacturer will invest in a production line without some form of protection that a foreign company using cheap labour will not rip off their work and sell the same kit for 1/2 the price. So no manufacturer will take it on.

What then? So there is a plan for a machine which works but is as complex as a washing machine with a HiFi grafted on (any electricity out must meet the specs for line power correctly - that means rather complex electronics and control systems).

Who can make a washing machine? Which will run for years continuously and not shred the clothes any time?

Let's see. Making such a device would interest typically the men in the population of whom 1 in 1,000 happen to have access to a machine shop (I'm thinking my town in the UK). My town has 100,000 people in it - whopdi do, that means 50 machines.

Mass deployment, the planet saved! Not.

Steve

@Honk,
if you would have seen the new machine of Paul Sprain,
you could already almost "smell" the available power from the huge permanent magnets !
;)

I guess , if you would accidently let them go jump and you have
one finger or thumb between them , your thump would be cut off or would be
punched down like soft butter...

@Stefan,

Quoteif you would have seen the new machine of Paul Sprain,
you could already almost "smell" the available power from the huge permanent magnets !

Does Paul plan to give a public demonstration of his self running device?

I am excited to see when Steorn's next demonstration will be.

Regards
Rob

Quote from: MeggerMan on July 07, 2007, 09:09:22 AM
@Stefan,

Quoteif you would have seen the new machine of Paul Sprain,
you could already almost "smell" the available power from the huge permanent magnets !

Does Paul plan to give a public demonstration of his self running device?

I excited to see when Steorn's next demonstration will be.

Regards
Rob

Yes, he said, he will do it one whole week long.
Dates have not yet been set.

Regards, Stefan.

I will say,
just forget the whole Steorn desaster and wait for the upcoming
Paul Sprain power unit demo ! ;)

Quote from: mramos on July 07, 2007, 09:29:55 AM
On Sprain.  I know the old stuff of his was impressive. 
I think he was the fellow with some cash that basically went all into a magnet
wheel and seemed determined as heck to get it working.

Like to see a video of his new unit.

I don't want just another video.
A video is proof of nothing. There are hundreds of videos out there showing
"free energy" devices but not a single one have ever proved overunity or proved at all.
This is why he should avoid the video. Well he can release it to let people se his motor,
but he must also let indepedent people test it and let them release their test results.
Other people must of course replicate his findings and report it as well.
I would build a wankel motor at once if I was convinced it was OU. Please, no BS this time.

@Mramos,
I was about to post the Q&A link but you beat me to it.   :)

@Honk,
I have seen your name on the Steorn forum, I wonder if the forum members there are experimenting with re-creating the Steorn Orbo device from the scant info available?
Do you know if they have?

@All,
After watching the Steorn Q&A I think that Sean is genuine and that he pushed for a demo ahead of when he should have.
So it looks like it will be some day next week.
I wonder if they were using jewel bearings?
Ahh well, roll on next week and lets see this device run.

Regards
Rob

 ;)Explication of  the steorn  disaster  demonstration: Steorm make a prototype device of orbo with  plexiglass transparent to the kinetic show, in order to  demonstrate that did not had motors or hidden cables, and that model failure. I can not imagine that is the sense of to organize this show if they  dont have some device working, in addition to the expenses of the disaster.

   Just remembr, the thing did have to come through customs. I have had three incounters with customs and none were good. I was harrassed all three times.  I worked at an airport and was amazed at what
some people had to deal with. No love for them here.

sugra

Considering the money available Steorn could have patented the whole thing, publish the theory together with repeatable experiments and everybody could check out the thingy without Steorn's interests being jeopardized.

Any positive outcome out of an early expert assessment (under NDA) would have an investor pull his wallet to fund the initial costs for patenting and further R&D.

There would be no risk for Steorn and parties could license the technology in an early stage and optimize it.

If I were Sean I would have ordered DHL to fetch a working unit from Steorn HQ the very next day after the demo unit fell apart. As far as I know there is free trade traffic between UK and Ireland and I haven't seen magnets and wheels on the dangerous goods list. If i were Sean I would prefer that the demonstration would take place with a non-transparent, ugly piece of junk rather than me having to cancel the entire show, taking the total embarassment and having to put up excuse after excuse.

So there are two possibilities: Either Sean is completely nuts, or he has no working technology.

Quote from: Omnibus on July 07, 2007, 02:03:09 AM
If one is interested in the practical side, however, probably the brute force approach of Paul Sprain would be the
successful engineering solution since the tune-up problem doesn?t seem to be so severe there.
The question with Paul Sprain?s motor is how to really confirm it?s really overunity.

The one and only way to really prove overunity is to make a self runner.
Rectify the output from a generator connected to the shaft of the motor.
Then use electronic switching to fit the voltage to the needs of the motor and controller.
Let the controller run the motor on the output from the generator only.
Connect extra loads to the generator output to do some work besides running the motor.
Let this setup run forever or at least several month to prove the overunity capacity.
Invite professionals to investigate the machine. Call in the press. Be openminded.
Most important. No hidden cables or such shit. Mount it in a clear view from all angles.

Unless Paul Sprain does this and show it publicly and also let people examine his setup closely
he doesn't have any overunity machine. It's just not enough to talk about mechanical output.
We want a self runner. Nothing else matters.

Quote from: hartiberlin on July 07, 2007, 07:23:13 AM
@Honk,
if you would have seen the new machine of Paul Sprain,
you could already almost "smell" the available power from the huge permanent magnets !
;)

Hi Hartiberlin

Sorry for being so sceptical and harsh on Paul.
I'm just so fed up with all so called "failing" and fake demontrations.
I just want some solid tests and open verification.

Quote from: hartiberlin on July 07, 2007, 01:06:57 AM
On the new machine we are getting 222 Nm at 52 radians. The maximum I can put
into the Electro-Magnet is 110 volts at 9 amps firing 33 times a second.
As you can see the input is nowhere near what the output power is.
(added by admin: Output is a huge 12.5 KWatts, while the input is just 200 Watts only !)

How do you calculate 222 Nm at 52 radians to an output of 12.5KW?
What does really 52 radians mean? Didn't Paul mean RPM?
Please post the formula. It could be very useful in future projects.

Regards / Honk

Hi Stefan,

Did you get that? @Sean from the Steorn forum just said that someone, a former member of that forum who has signed a NDA and now is a member of the Steorn Private Developers Club (SPDC) has  reproduced independently their device and it had run for approx. 8 hours. Too bad @Sean left the discussion just about that time and I couldn't understand was this fellow the only one who has reproduced the experiment. I guess these SPDC's aren't members of the 22 jury group but are somehow independently under a NDA agreement with Steorn.

Quote from: Honk on July 11, 2007, 01:28:05 PM

Quote from: hartiberlin on July 07, 2007, 07:23:13 AM
@Honk,
if you would have seen the new machine of Paul Sprain,
you could already almost "smell" the available power from the huge permanent magnets !
;)

Hi Hartiberlin

Sorry for being so sceptical and harsh on Paul.
I'm just so fed up with all so called "failing" and fake demontrations.
I just want some solid tests and open verification.

Quote from: hartiberlin on July 07, 2007, 01:06:57 AM
On the new machine we are getting 222 Nm at 52 radians. The maximum I can put
into the Electro-Magnet is 110 volts at 9 amps firing 33 times a second.
As you can see the input is nowhere near what the output power is.
(added by admin: Output is a huge 12.5 KWatts, while the input is just 200 Watts only !)

How do you calculate 222 Nm at 52 radians to an output of 12.5KW?
What does really 52 radians mean? Didn't Paul mean RPM?
Please post the formula. It could be very useful in future projects.

Regards / Honk

6.282 radians = 1 rotation I believe...
So perhaps he ment 52 radians per minute which is 8.3RPM
but that sounds awfully slow for all that power so perhaps its 8.3RPS...

But whats really confusing me is its writen as "222 Nm at 52 radians"
This layout is commonly used to figure out the force at length measurements.
Much like the "foot pounds" of torque ratio this would be "Newtons per radian"?
I have no clue what that means in terms of power conversion.
Perhaps the system of measurement could be changed in to a more common one.

Thanks in advance,
~Dingus Mungus

Yes, I would like to clear things up so we don't end with useless numbers
when it comes to talking about the power output from Paul's motor.
When inventors tend to use strange ways of measurement they usually
have something to hide. Let's not do it this time, please.

I happened to be in London for a week and having heard about the Steorn demonstration I decided to go on a pilgrimage to this most recent shrine of free energy.  The day was Saturday, and the announcement that the demonstration had failed was already hanging on the glass doors of the Kinetica Museum. I wasn't surprised, because I had been reading the postings on this forum. But I felt it rather disappointing that the only item on display was the plexiglass hamster wheel. I mean, I can understand that the parts were taken-in for inspection, but couldn't they have left a picture or posted a movie on YouTube?

As I made my way back through the Old Spitalfields Market I was so glad I hadn't travelled far to get there.  And I was equally pleased that during the past eight months, I hadn't spent one minute of my time trying out some impossible replication of this "Orbo" effect.

Regards
Joseph

Quote from: Honk on July 11, 2007, 11:06:22 PM
Yes, I would like to clear things up so we don't end with useless numbers
when it comes to talking about the power output from Paul's motor.
When inventors tend to use strange ways of measurement they usually
have something to hide. Let's not do it this time, please.

The more I look at it the more it seems to be saying 222 newtons per meter of torque at 52 degrees...
I assume thats the position when the static magnetic fields produce the most force, but the question then becomes whats the strongest cog point in the same measurment? We definitely need the measurement cleared up though, as 52 radians doesn't make a lot of sence to most of us.

Altho Paul should really be figuring out if hes in this for the money or the goal of sovernty, as I had read recently he was taking one of our members to court for selling similar devices. It would be a real shame if another overunity device was lost in the shuffle over something as petty as money.

~Dingus Mungus

EDIT:
1 Newton (N) = 0.2248 Lbs. Force
1 Newton Meter ( Nm) = 0.738 foot pounds
222Nm of force = 163.836 foot pounds of torque...
Thats more power than most V6 engines can produce.
We really need a video at this point or it just sounds TGTBT.

~Dingus Mungus

Quote from: Honk on July 11, 2007, 01:28:05 PM


How do you calculate 222 Nm at 52 radians to an output of 12.5KW?
What does really 52 radians mean? Didn't Paul mean RPM?
Please post the formula. It could be very useful in future projects.

Regards / Honk

Have a look here:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radians

Use in physics

The radian is widely used in physics when angular measurements are required. For example, angular velocity is typically measured in radians per second (rad/s). One revolution per second is equal to 2Ïâ,¬ radians per second.
So 2 * pi = 6.2832

Now he has 52 rads/sec.
That means he has got a revolution per second of 52 / 6.2832 = 8.267 Hz.

Now he has a torque of 222 Nm and now you can calculate the power from it yourself
via this rotation frequency.

Regards, Stefan.

Quote from: hartiberlin on July 12, 2007, 06:07:01 PM
Now he has 52 rads/sec.
That means he has got a revolution per second of 52 / 6.2832 = 8.267 Hz.

Now he has a torque of 222 Nm and now you can calculate the power from it yourself
via this rotation frequency.

Regards, Stefan.

Stefan that would mean he's putting out 160ft/lbs @ 9RPM...
Forgive me but thats something I have to see to believe.

~Dingus Mungus

P.S. If Paul isn't mistaken things are about to get really crazy in the magnet market.

Okay, here easier for you:

Power =torque x angular speed

That means Power=  222 Nm x 52 rads/sec= 11544 Watts,

so probably it was a typo, not 12.5 KWatts, but 11.5 KWatts...

But with only around 200 Watts of input that is a real nice COP  of 57.72 !
;)

Quote from: Dingus Mungus on July 12, 2007, 06:13:10 PM

Quote from: hartiberlin on July 12, 2007, 06:07:01 PM
Now he has 52 rads/sec.
That means he has got a revolution per second of 52 / 6.2832 = 8.267 Hz.

Now he has a torque of 222 Nm and now you can calculate the power from it yourself
via this rotation frequency.

Regards, Stefan.

Stefan that would mean he's putting out 160ft/lbs @ 9RPM...
Forgive me but thats something I have to see to believe.
My 2003 tiburon delivers only 130ft/lbs @ 4kRPM.

~Dingus Mungus

P.S. If Paul isn't mistaken things are about to get really crazy in the magnet market.

Hi Dingus,
if you would have seen the magnets he has used....
these are about I would think 10 cm x 5 cm x 5 cm Neodym magnets
and at least 50 pieces or so, so this is a very very strong and big machine !

@Harti_Berlin

Actually, a single 10 cm* 5 cm * 5 cm Neodym magnets is a fingers killer!
If two of such beasts are accidentally stick you almost need a crane to get them appart (if you still have your fingers to command it).

That is, perhaps,  why such compagny as Perendev are not showing anything . Are they?

I do no dare to order such thing at http://www.supermagnete.de
( ;D free publicity ;D)

Best

Yes,you say it !
The steel axis to hold the rotor in place at these
immense forces is alone probably 4 to 5 cm in diameter ! ;)

So you see, this is a very powerful machine !;)

I hope Harry Paul  Sprain will soon release these pictures for the public...

From Wiki: "Some that are slightly larger than the size of a penny are powerful enough to lift over 10 kilograms. . . . If swallowed, neodymium magnets can cause lethal conditions by joining up inside the intestine."

Ouch. I guess I'll keep eating Corn Flakes instead.


I wonder though, if Samarium-cobalt magnets would be more suitable. They are nearly as strong, I think.. and more resistant to degaussing?

Quote from: Dingus Mungus on July 12, 2007, 05:59:23 PM
EDIT:
1 Newton (N) = 0.2248 Lbs. Force
1 Newton Meter ( Nm) = 0.738 foot pounds
222Nm of force = 163.836 foot pounds of torque...
Thats more power than most V6 engines can produce.
We really need a video at this point or it just sounds TGTBT.

~Dingus Mungus

That's a lot of torque, But a V6 engine is putting out it's torque at higher RPM:s and
that is meaning lots of Hp, like 500Hp or more.
The calculated 11544 Watts from Pauls machine = 15.47Hp US.  (11544 / 746 = 15.47 Hp)
It's really, really good coming from an overunity capable machine but nothing compaired to a V6 engine.
But ones the Wankel Motor is more developed there should be more power to harvest.
Paul could mount several Wankels in parallel onto the same shaft. E.g 5 x 15.47 = 77Hp.
Suddenly we have the power for an ordinary sized car. Yeah baby....

All, Sprain's "invention" stinks all the way to heaven. What there is new and different to that Kure Tekko assymetrical stator motor?  Nothing. He's most likely just another liar from the USA, from where a long stream of them comes. For those skilled in electronics and electrics, his radians and 222 Nm are just a smoking gun. That does not make sense and nobody in the trade speaks like that. Hence, that is not a fact of anything, except the proof of things Sprain is most likely hiding.

Let us even allow a minute chance that he might have succeded in amplifying the input power into a useable and augmented output, until he comes clean I recommend utmost caution. And I question his integrity by "patenting" something that is already available on the internet. And has been available for years. That is not something an honest person would do.

It also shows how stupid are USA patent investigators...

Like most noobs your first (and only) post only bashes. no useful info at all. So we want to know, wheres yours? What do YOU have to offer except lame bashing? Nothing of course.
People, dont be fooled by these trolls. Free energy as we know it is real, they know it, and they know that we know it. There is no way in hell that they will ever be able to stop it now. Sad people only want to 'affect' things that they are not even a part of. Same with boat lists, same with airplane lists, same with concrete sidewalk message boards! You will ALWAYS get people who want to rain on your parade, or try to 'save' you. Yeah right. Get a life "Mr. Tesla".

I see you speak from your own experience and character. Maybe you need to be reminded of your own bashing. I will not be drawn in your juvenile discussion as you have nothing of value to add to a meaningful discussion. As a lawyer, I stand behind what I said about patent investigators. As a curious individual, and a lawyer, I stand behind what I said for the "patent" Sprain claims as his. Nothing "bashing" here, just facts.

And I would be only to happy to see your "free energy" invention. Step forward or return to the shadow, and refrain from direct personal attacks on others in the forum. Read the rules for posting.

Nothing I wrote is against your "free energy". Since you have none, I do have the luxury of being skeptic as the only thing so far we have seen were promises and alchemic talk that nobody understands. And such a talk is an insult to intelligence (mine at least. you feel free to believe in 222Nm at 52 radians. That tells me how much you really understand about the subject.)

If Sprain comes up with output greater than input of power, I'll say well done. But the fact is, he is claiming a patent on something that was around for decades. Do you really think that is a honest person? And do you really think that patent investigators in USA actually know their job? They are, after all, just public servants, not technos nor scientists.

A Lawyer? Who doesnt even know how to spell 'character'? Hhahahaha Sure kid sure.

So, as I said, either show us your "working free energy machine" or please go and play somewhere else. With people of your intellectual level. And pay attention to your own spelling, before criticising others. You suck at it badly.

Free energy? Fine.

Blind me with evidence!

As you have stated, you are here to dispel free energy, and 'save us' from
the horrors of us wasting our time. How heroic you are. Amazing for a scum like a lawyer to save us, dont you think? Tell me, mr 'lawyer' (yeah right) how many hours of research have you spent on free energy? How many scientists have you met with, experiments tested? What? None? Of course, how ridiculous.
If you are not GOD, and if you are not the smartest HUMAN on the planet, and even if you were, who are you to say what are laws of the universe and what are not? Have you ever left this planet? No. Less than twenty years ago you were sucking on a teet and watching bozo the clown. So please, homey, dont clown us. We have serious business to do here, after people like you have threatened our very existence. Nuff said.

Please all, no flamewars over here. Paul Sprain seems to be almost ready to demo his new machine to the world soon. He said, he will do  it for a whole week.

His principle is simular to these japanese device, but he works on attraction, not on repelling the rotor magnets.
But this thread is for the Steorn device.
Regards, Stefan. (admin)

Steorn is dead and buried....let's continue on the more interesting Sprain motor.

I know you can't or is not allowed to tell but I have to ask you these questions.
1: Did Sprain use more rotor magnets than just two this time?
2: Did Sprain use custom made slanted magnets to get a better directed attraction?
3: Have he tried a generator onto the shaft yet, to get an electrical output?

Read the last post...
If Stefan had your answers why would he post them here?
Go to the sprain motor thread!
I apologise for butting in but Stefan was not blunt enough.

Thanks in advance,
~Dingus Mungus

Quote from: Dingus Mungus on July 15, 2007, 10:53:04 PM
If Stefan had your answers why would he post them here?

Because he has seen pictures on the new Sprain motor.
1: Number of rotors? The pic should tell....
2: Slanted magnets? The pic should tell....
3: Generator mount? Probably not shown in pic but conversation with Paul could have revealed it.

Well guys, continue your Sprain arguments here.  ;)
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2773.0.html

Quote from: Dr. Tesla on July 14, 2007, 09:30:20 AM
All, Sprain's "invention" stinks all the way to heaven. What there is new and different to that Kure Tekko assymetrical stator motor?

Yes. I can't see it. The only thing might be his mentioning magnets of opposite polarity. Does he imagine that a motor based on N poles pushing is different to one based on N poles and S poles attracting?

This is what his european application (not actually granted) claims:


What is claimed is:

1.. An apparatus for generating energy, wherein the apparatus comprises:
A. a rotor movable in a clockwise or counterclockwise direction and having at least one magnet affixed to the rotor;
B. a plate located adjacent to but spaced apart from the rotor ;
C. one or more magnets affixed to and around an upper side of the plate and having a polarity which is opposite to the magnet affixed to the rotor;
D. a magnetic field of increasing magnetic field strength which is provided by the one or more magnets affixed to the plate, wherein the magnetic field is continuous except for a defined space;
E. an electromagnet capable of delivering an magnetic field and located adjacent to but not within the defined space, wherein the device is in sequence with movement of a magnet affixed to the rotor.

2. An apparatus as defined by Claim 1 wherein the rotor is attached to a direct drive assembly.

3. An apparatus as defined by Claim 1 wherein a single magnet is affixed to the plate.

4. An apparatus as defined by Claim 1 wherein a series of magnets is affixed to the plate.

5. A process for generating energy in which a rotor is moved through a magnetic field in a generally circular direction, thereby turning a shaft attached to the rotor.

6. A process as defined by Claim5 wherein magnetic energy is converted into mechanical force or kinetic energy.

7. A process as defined by Claim 5 wherein magnetic energy is converted into electrical energy.


Paul-R.

Quote from: Ergo on July 16, 2007, 04:24:05 AM

Quote from: Dingus Mungus on July 15, 2007, 10:53:04 PM
If Stefan had your answers why would he post them here?

Because he has seen pictures on the new Sprain motor.

This may help:
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Paul_Harry_Sprain_magnet_motor#Device_Description

You are totaly wrong Paul-R.
I'm refering to the, not released yet, pictures on Sprains new BIG motor, did I say BIG motor!
The link you gave was on his old puny 6W motor.

Oh! Sorry about that.

But if he is depending on his (I think) only patent, is the new
motor not a scaled up version using the same principles?

Hi Paul,
Bit off topic here I think.

I read your newly updated page from Energymover update, very interesting.
I have some more parts on order so I should be able to perform some testing on the MEG at last including some flip-flops and schmitt triggers so I can convert the DDS 20 func. gen. into a push-pull output. I think I may be able to get the pulse width down to 25ns for any freq. using a 10pF cap + pull down resistor feeding a schmitt trigger, but I need to test the idea first.

Regards
Rob

Quote from: Paul-R on July 16, 2007, 05:46:03 PM
But if he is depending on his (I think) only patent, is the new
motor not a scaled up version using the same principles?

Yes it's the same principle but the questions was if he have used slanted magnets
and more rotors in his new big motor this time to increase the output?

Quote from: MeggerMan on July 16, 2007, 06:18:05 PM
Hi Paul,
Bit off topic here I think.
I read your newly updated page from Energymover update...

Wrong Paul! But thanks for highlighting his page.
Paul-R.

Quote from: Honk on July 16, 2007, 03:35:23 PM
Well guys, continue your Sprain arguments here.  ;)
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2773.0.html

LOL! I really want to get involved in this debate, just not in the "Orbo" thread...
I love the people here. We're all bull headed and stubborn as all get out!

 ;D