Just announced, Graham Gunderson has a second patent pending. This is interesting because it was originally said that the operation of Genie would be disclosed in two separate patents.
from Overunity.com, posted by Mark Goldes, MPI CEO:
"This first Patent Application on this invention will be followed by a second in the future. As shown, even when done correctly, it will only go to 99% efficiency. To exceed unity (the first prototype had an output more than 100 times the input at an extremely low power level < 1 watt) other, not yet disclosed, information is necessary."
Hopefully this patent, which hasn't been released to the public, is the one we've been waiting for!
reference: http://magneticpowerinc.com/pdf/Short_Summary.pdf
::)
Quote from: ckreol1 on February 24, 2008, 12:41:29 PM
Just announced, Graham Gunderson has a second patent pending. This is interesting because it was originally said that the operation of Genie would be disclosed in two separate patents.
from Overunity.com, posted by Mark Goldes, MPI CEO:
"This first Patent Application on this invention will be followed by a second in the future. As shown, even when done correctly, it will only go to 99% efficiency. To exceed unity (the first prototype had an output more than 100 times the input at an extremely low power level < 1 watt) other, not yet disclosed, information is necessary."
Hopefully this patent, which hasn't been released to the public, is the one we've been waiting for!
reference: http://magneticpowerinc.com/pdf/Short_Summary.pdf
And:
Overtone
Newbie
Posts: 20
Re: Graham Gunderson?s dragless generator patent, Lenz law violation !
? Reply #50 on: February 22, 2008, 05:49:47 PM ? Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We welcome improvements.
The planetary energy crisis is serious enough, that anyone who can make a contribution is helping to solve important problems.
Feel free!
If you get something to work Over Unity and it can withstand serious testing, we might even be interested in assisting.
Mark
If you get something to work well into Over Unity, there would be many people that would be interested in assisting and they wouldn't be near as hard to find then...
Hmmmm... may be, but there's nothing new on their site...
I would expect that second patent application to be posted in their "articles" section, just like the first one.
It's not there. (yet?)
i wouldnt think this unit should be too hard to figure should it?
hopefully it is made public soon......
ist
well if it's anything like the device patent thay already have available on their site,
it should indeed not be too difficult.
Has anyone tried replicating that device, by the way?
That first patent device seems really simple to replicate: just a round ferrite core,
some holes drilled into it, some wire woven through the holes, some permanent magnets
attached to the core at the exact right places, and to top it off a coil would around the
entire core, which needs to be fed with AC at the right frequency...
Anyone? ;)
I gather, from reading around the net, that Magnetic Power Inc is NOT going to release this pending patent, for legal reasons. So I think we'll have to wait for the patent to be authorized.
Check this out...Graham is actually giving a talk in Colorado. Wish it would be video'ed and put on this site somewhere.
http://www.magneticsmagazine.com/mag_conf08_program.htm#magnetic
@
I was trying to do a Replikation
but did not succseed.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4191.0/topicseen.html
helmut
this is a verry simple device ......
altho i think it will be a challange to crack....
the question is where is the control......
hummmmm......
ist
Everything about Magnetic Power Inc looks promising, they have real patents filed, a seemingly legit r&d effort. All except for one thing - for years they have promised to show a working prototype and never delivered.
That pdf that was linked to in the first post mentions they will release a prototype and then a 1kw device in 2008.
Well just substitute 2008 for 2007, then 2006, then 2005 because they have put out the exact same sort of press releases for years.
I hope they really have found OU but at this stage it just looks like they are fish baiters waiting for big funding.
I don't believe there's a lot of people behind the curtains of Magnetic Power Inc.
Mark Goldes is probably just sitting there and writing fantastic reports on their success.
Some people chose to believe this. Others don't, the sane ones.
But one thing is for sure. Every report Mark releases is just imaginations of his wicked mind.
@ckreol1 where do you see anything about Graham Gunderson or MPI at the 2008 Magnetics Conference? I searched the agenda and don't see him or anyone else from MPI scheduled to give any talks.
Another funny thing is that MPI recently took Graham out of the Executive Summary as one of their key people. Have Graham and MPI parted ways?
Quote from: ckreol1 on February 28, 2008, 11:21:12 PM
Check this out...Graham is actually giving a talk in Colorado. Wish it would be video'ed and put on this site somewhere.
http://www.magneticsmagazine.com/mag_conf08_program.htm#magnetic
@Pennies
I appreciate your attention to detail!Ã, I hadn't noticed that they took Graham out of the executive summary. He must have been removed this month.
And the fact that Graham pulled out of the Magnetic Conference...it all points to him leaving the company.
Here was the title of his presentation, which was on the Magnetic Conference site:
"The Magnetomechanical Effect: New Products and Materials in the Magnetics Industry for Pressure Sensors, transducers, and Energy Harvesting Graham Gunderson, Senior Development Engineer, Magnetic Power, Inc."
Maybe Mark could comment here.
@ckreol1 It is a mystery. The web site lists the Executive Summary as updated March 26. I guess that is when they took Graham out. The current summary doesn't list anyone as a replacement.
Maybe MPI will post the paper, but I doubt it.
Did you see where Mark claimed MPI had tested 250W generators? He said those generators proved their density.
Quote from: ckreol1 on April 17, 2008, 11:58:00 PM
@Pennies
I appreciate your attention to detail! I hadn't noticed that they took Graham out of the executive summary. He must have been removed this month.
And the fact that Graham pulled out of the Magnetic Conference...it all points to him leaving the company.
Here was the title of his presentation, which was on the Magnetic Conference site:
"The Magnetomechanical Effect: New Products and Materials in the Magnetics Industry for Pressure Sensors, transducers, and Energy Harvesting Graham Gunderson, Senior Development Engineer, Magnetic Power, Inc."
Maybe Mark could comment here.
I feel a little cheated by this for some reason. It's been 20 days and there has not been a public explanation made or statement given regarding the chief engineer's leaving. What is in store for MPI after this recent development?
To me, it's a bit of a bummer for a company with such apparent promise. I hope Graham shows back up somewhere soon.
I hadn't seen that they had tested a 250kw generator. Approximately when did he make that statement?
hey guys have a look at matt emery's pmh
how and why does it work ?
also ed leadschallon
can engery be traped?? and controled? i think so.....
ist
@ckreol1 while it makes sense that MPI would remove Graham from the Executive Summary, and he wouldn't be speaking at the Magnetics Conference if he left MPI. Those facts don't necessarily mean that he has left. It remains very curious why he or they dropped out, and why he isn't in the summary anymore.
Mark made the 250W ( not kW ) generator claim, here just before last Christmas:
250W Generator Claim (http://www.magneticpowerinc.com/pdf/MPI_Harbinger_Hope.pdf).
It got discussed late last year here:
Steorn Forum Discussion (http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=60099)
Mark refused to say what the 250W really meant. One person offered a bet of $1million that Mark couldn't demonstrate that he had a working OU device or ever had. He said he likely be up for the bet within six months. That was almost four months ago.
Personally I am still trying to figure out what Mark supposedly meant when he claimed a "Successful Prototype" over a year ago:
Successful Prototype (http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=60099).
If it was successful, I don't see why in over a year they never submitted it to independent test.
.
Mark's latest promise for independent tests of a self-sustaining generator is for the end of this month.
April Test (http://teslafounders.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/focus-green/)
I'm happy to take bets that won't happen this month or any month. He's been saying "a few weeks" to tests for years and years and they never happen. I don't know why anyone believes him.
Quote from: ckreol1 on April 18, 2008, 08:58:12 AM
I feel a little cheated by this for some reason. It's been 20 days and there has not been a public explanation made or statement given regarding the chief engineer's leaving. What is in store for MPI after this recent development?
To me, it's a bit of a bummer for a company with such apparent promise. I hope Graham shows back up somewhere soon.
I hadn't seen that they had tested a 250kw generator. Approximately when did he make that statement?
Turns out he was pulled from the conference by the conference organizers.Ã, They felt he wasn't a good fit for the conference.
ckreol1 it sounds like he is still with MPI then.
Who told you that the conference organizers dropped him? Did they explain why in more detail? Did they see his presentation before deciding? If it's true, that's not good for MPI.
Do you know if he got dropped before or after MPI pulled his bio from the Executive Summary? Do you know if one had anything to do with the other?
If he isn't going to the conference is MPI going to publish the presentation he was planning to present?
TIA
Quote from: ckreol1 on April 21, 2008, 09:58:38 AM
Turns out he was pulled from the conference by the conference organizers. They felt he wasn't a good fit for the conference.
Pennies -- A staff member from the company that organizes this and other conferences gave me this info, not a technical person.Ã, They said that a comittee had decided that Graham's presentation wasn't a good fit for their conference.
I don't know the reason they dropped it.
I think you have a lot of good questions.Ã, I have to think Mark and others at MPI monitor this forum and it sure would be nice to here from them.Ã,Â
@Ergo
I would agree that there aren't a lot of people at MPI.Ã, However, I think that Graham brought some quality folks with him; specifically folks from a yahoo group called OUBuilders.Ã, This group was once active with some highly educated and motivated members.Ã, Graham joined the group and 1 or 2 years later left for MPI.Ã, Shortly thereafter several of the members of OUBuilders showed up on the roster of MPI employees.Ã, It was a very organic process and didn't seem like a manufactured put on.Ã, Since that time, about 3 years ago, OUBuilders has seen very little posting.Ã, I know several members had personal relationships with Graham.Ã, The members of this group were very dedicated to OU and physics, in general.Ã, They spent a great amount of time writing articles for eachother and discussing things.Ã, Eventually, Graham's experimental research led to a valid OU machine and he got several people in the group to sign NDA's regarding his device.Ã, Fairly quickly the posting slowed to a stop on this once highly active forum.Ã, It seems that once they saw Graham's device in action they were convinced the OU mystery had been solved.
Having seen this with my own eyes, it seems to me that the likelihood of Graham having a valid OU device is high.Ã, I think there have been snags, hold-ups, etcetera, and that Graham has continued to innovate and come up with improvements on his devices and that this is the reason that MPI is taking longer than expected to bring a device to market.Ã, They are trying to get it right out of the gate, not half-a** it.Ã, And Graham has the abilities to get it right.
However, I am disappointed that lack of funding has plagued MPI.Ã, If Graham left, I would be surprised if it wasn't out of frustration over lack of funding.Ã,Â
Graham has made it clear that he is, above all, driven by a desire to improve this planet and help people.
I know I've speculated a lot and spoken for other people here.Ã, I apologize if I have mischaracterized anyone or anything.Ã, These are only the opinions of an outside observer.Ã, It would surprise me if others didn't share these opinions, though.
ckreol1
@ckreol1 thanks for the info on the convention.
I would like to know what you thought you saw as evidence that Graham had a valid OU machine. MPI has never presented any evidence that they have ever had such a thing. A valid independent test by a qualified lab is all that stands between any OU claimant and a tidal wave of investor cash. MPI's repeated claims to OU, and repeated failures to submit any device to independent test bears witness that they know they don't have OU.
Mark Goldes puts out ludicrous excuses. A year and a half ago he blamed testing delays on ETI moving. ETI has been settled in their new digs for more than a year. Now Mark inexplicably just declares that they have put the transformers they said worked on the shelf. MPI has never offered any credible explanation for why if the son of MEG transformer worked as they claimed that they did not submit to testing. It doesn't matter how difficult it is to make the things. If the device actually were OU it would be revolutionary and MPI's cash strapped days would be over.
The description Lee Felsenstein offers of the GENIE device isn't even remotely close to OU. It is of a very ordinary device that has a feedback mechanism. The behavior he describes is readily reproduced by a shunt regulator. In it's simplest electrical form that would be a resistor and a stiff zener diode.
I am very curious as to what it is you saw something do ( I don't care about the construction ), that makes you think that Graham ever got to OU. I am even more curious how you reconcile what you think you saw with the fact that MPI never submits to testing.
Quote from: ckreol1 on April 22, 2008, 10:05:17 AM
@Ergo
I would agree that there aren't a lot of people at MPI. However, I think that Graham brought some quality folks with him; specifically folks from a yahoo group called OUBuilders. This group was once active with some highly educated and motivated members. Graham joined the group and 1 or 2 years later left for MPI. Shortly thereafter several of the members of OUBuilders showed up on the roster of MPI employees. It was a very organic process and didn't seem like a manufactured put on. Since that time, about 3 years ago, OUBuilders has seen very little posting. I know several members had personal relationships with Graham. The members of this group were very dedicated to OU and physics, in general. They spent a great amount of time writing articles for eachother and discussing things. Eventually, Graham's experimental research led to a valid OU machine and he got several people in the group to sign NDA's regarding his device. Fairly quickly the posting slowed to a stop on this once highly active forum. It seems that once they saw Graham's device in action they were convinced the OU mystery had been solved.
Having seen this with my own eyes, it seems to me that the likelihood of Graham having a valid OU device is high. I think there have been snags, hold-ups, etcetera, and that Graham has continued to innovate and come up with improvements on his devices and that this is the reason that MPI is taking longer than expected to bring a device to market. They are trying to get it right out of the gate, not half-a** it. And Graham has the abilities to get it right.
However, I am disappointed that lack of funding has plagued MPI. If Graham left, I would be surprised if it wasn't out of frustration over lack of funding.
Graham has made it clear that he is, above all, driven by a desire to improve this planet and help people.
I know I've speculated a lot and spoken for other people here. I apologize if I have mischaracterized anyone or anything. These are only the opinions of an outside observer. It would surprise me if others didn't share these opinions, though.
ckreol1
@pennies My argument above may not have been very clear. However, I think my analysis, while entirely circumstantial, has somewhat firm ground. I'm basing this on the timeline of the migration of Graham and other researchers (I am not naming them here) from the OUBuilders Yahoo group to MPI. The posts that were made by members at the OUBuilders group over the course of 1 or 2 years make it hard to believe that the entire thing is just a big hoax.
Based on history, and specifically the history of MPI, you do have every reason to doubt their claims. In fact, any sane person would do so. However, based on the posts that were made in OU Groups, it would take quite a bit of collusion from some people who had demonstrated seemingly high degrees of integrity to be able rationally explain this as a hoax.
Also Pennies, so I don't sound like a complete dufus, I agree with you that MPI is playing their cards very close to their chest so far. Recently, they did file a second patent. It's possible that this patent is the coming out of MPI, although they have made no public claims about this patent. Anyway, nearly all patent applications are made public 18 months after the filing, so hopefully we'll know then, if not sooner if MPI is legit.
I am not going to fault a company for not naming their partners, doing public tests, etc, when there really isn't much incentive to do so.
They aren't asking the public for money, therefore there really isn't an incentive to make it publicly well-known, is there?
George
ckreol1 the trouble with your analysis is that none of it relies upon direct evidence of OU. It all relies on trying to interpret the motivations behind actions of other people. There are lots of people who sincerely think that OU, or alternatively some until now unknown source of energy is just waiting for someone to stumble across it. The OUBuilders forum sounds like such a group. I don't have any reason to doubt those people's sincerity. The science is another matter. The fact remains that there has never been one scintilla of verifiable evidence for OU from: Graham, that group, or any of the thousands of other OU claimants through the years.
Verifiable evidence of OU, or a heretofore unknown energy source would be a huge scientific development. But like any development big or small, it requires verifiable evidence to be taken seriously. MPI keeps claiming they have such a "breakthrough development" but refuse to offer any evidence that backs their extraordinary claims. It isn't that there is reason to doubt MPI. Quite the inverse: MPI offers absolutely no reason for any rational person to give their claims any credence. It has always been up to MPI to change that by presenting verifiable evidence. They never have. They don't now, and there is no reason to even suspect that they ever will.
The first patent application is a piece of garbage. It was crafted either by: someone with a total lack of basic physics education, someone intending to pull a fast one, or a combination of the two. That device boils down to a transformer with very poor coupling. The patent incredibly claims that somehow by "brushing conductors" with a time varying magnetic field that there is induction where Lenz's Law doesn't apply. Sorry, Do Not Pass Go, Do Not Collect $200., go directly back to Physics 101. Lenz's Law is a description of induction. It is beneath silly to make the claims that application does that: induction occurs without induction. There is no reason to expect that a second application is any less absurd.
I don't know where you got the idea that MPI is not seeking money. Mark is constantly looking for investor cash. Plug "+Goldes +MPI" into Google and see just how many results are postings by Mark talking about MPI's funding.
MPI wants investor money in exchange for their claims of OU technology. It is up to MPI to convince investors they have the technology they claim. Those claims are easily established without revealing a single detail about the underlying technology, and certainly without exposing information about business relationships. Any substantive evidence that they have what they claim would open the flood gates to the cash Mark says the lack of which has been MPI's main hindrance. MPI's refusal to take step one can only rationally be interpreted as MPI knowing they do not have what they claim.
Sooner or later one has to come to the realization that MPI has always been blowing smoke. If 25 years of bullshit doesn't do it for you, I'm not sure what will. Year after year Mark makes the same proven false claims: validation testing, and big VC / institutional money are just weeks away. For MPI's free energy machines next week never comes. It never will.
Quote from: ckreol1 on April 22, 2008, 02:56:33 PM
@pennies My argument above may not have been very clear. However, I think my analysis, while entirely circumstantial, has somewhat firm ground. I'm basing this on the timeline of the migration of Graham and other researchers (I am not naming them here) from the OUBuilders Yahoo group to MPI. The posts that were made by members at the OUBuilders group over the course of 1 or 2 years make it hard to believe that the entire thing is just a big hoax.
Based on history, and specifically the history of MPI, you do have every reason to doubt their claims. In fact, any sane person would do so. However, based on the posts that were made in OU Groups, it would take quite a bit of collusion from some people who had demonstrated seemingly high degrees of integrity to be able rationally explain this as a hoax.
Also Pennies, so I don't sound like a complete dufus, I agree with you that MPI is playing their cards very close to their chest so far. Recently, they did file a second patent. It's possible that this patent is the coming out of MPI, although they have made no public claims about this patent. Anyway, nearly all patent applications are made public 18 months after the filing, so hopefully we'll know then, if not sooner if MPI is legit.
I am not going to fault a company for not naming their partners, doing public tests, etc, when there really isn't much incentive to do so.
They aren't asking the public for money, therefore there really isn't an incentive to make it publicly well-known, is there?
George
I was in our WA lab with Graham yesterday and assure you his status with MPI is unchanged.
The Magnetics Conference, not unexpectedly, has skeptics regarding magnetic energy conversion systems. Until independent lab validation of our work takes place, as I have said many times, skepticism is to be expected. We were surprised to be invited to present and not surprised to be uninvited. The presentation would have been premature.
Our purpose was to suggest certain magnetic materials might want to be produced in quantities. These core materials are presently not easy to obtain. We will contact the firms that have the production capacity privately, following independent lab evaluations of our work. That is likely to prove to be the wiser course.
EarthTech International will be the first lab invited (at long last). Last week we had a call from a National Lab asking us to bring a prototype there as well.
The device reflected in the posted patent application exceeded unity by a very large margin. However, it was at an extremely low power level and the device has developed an internal short circuit that prevents it from continuing to function. Developing it commercially has proven to be a surprisingly difficult task. As stated earlier, it will result in a second, future, application that reveals details necessary to reproduce this invention in a manner that allows it to be OU. That project is on a back burner, as in trying to simplify the construction, entirely new and different families of what in the cancelled presentation would have been called ?energy harvesting? have emerged.
An example is the work referred to in a Proof-of-Concept, but not at that time OU, device in Lee Felsenstein?s article on our website. We now refer to that emerging group of generators as POWERGENIE? (Power Generation of Electricity by Nondestructive Interference of Energy) devices. The second patent pending is the first of several that will cover this very different technology. A POWERGENIE prototype has been OU. One of the newer designs may provide a near-term, solid-state, self-runner.
Four different devices in the Mechanical Division laboratory have also been repeatedly OU. However, the output is not electrical and the margins have not been sufficient to self-run. A prototype of a new design appears to be a good candidate for a self-runner, having moving parts. If so, this will meet our goal for a Demonstration Device, capable of being mass produced.
As we are very busy, this is all I am prepared to say at this time.
Cheers,
Mark
@Mark, I'd love to see the specific invitation extended to MPI to submit a paper to that conference. It's a safe bet that no such specific invitation was extended. Far more likely you are misrepresenting the conference's general call for speakers as an invitation to MPI.
What caused the conference organizers to drop you? Did the conference organizers find out that "energy harvesting" is MPI speak for your unsubstantiated, and undemonstrable zero point energy claims?
It's funny but not surprising you are setting up your excuses for why the GENIE will never make it to testing. Yes, designing things that need unobtanium can be a barrier to commercialization. You should know. You have lots of experience coming up with nonsense excuses for why one device or another never makes it to testing. The obvious and correct reason is that you have never had what you claim. When can we look forward to you claiming a world-wide shortage of unobtanium as your barrier to GENIE?
It's such a shame that the one and only OU MEG knock-off developed a fatal internal short circuit. It's just so difficult to wind a coil. Why one needs a coil winder and a 6th grade education. Obviously it was wise of you to recognize that task is far beyond MPI's present means. And what was it that caused that short? Was it the intense heat of the very low power you refer to? Don't tell me you got it within 6000 miles of those ever so hot Steorn display lights. Nothing can hold up to those, not even Steorn's mighty bearings.
Tell me, just what succeeded in that "Successful Prototype" test that Lee witnessed. Anyone with a basic education in physics and/or electronics should know that shunt regulators don't need zero point energy to work. Yet behavior of a shunt regulator is all that Lee described.
Well I am sure you're very busy shielding your office from those pesky Steorn display lights, filling out purchase orders for unobtanium, and of course pandering for sucker cash.
Toodles.
I think it is also interesting that a device that has a very low power level should develop an irrepairable internal short. That sounds a lot like Carl Tilley's broken axle, or Steorn's molten bearings. It's just amazing how both fragile and shy these free energy machines tend to be. Isn't it funny how you talk of reproducing in the future what you say you could only ever make one of? And that one copy just happens to have inconveniently self-destructed.
Quote from: Overtone on April 23, 2008, 12:36:22 PM
I was in our WA lab with Graham yesterday and assure you his status with MPI is unchanged.
The Magnetics Conference, not unexpectedly, has skeptics regarding magnetic energy conversion systems. Until independent lab validation of our work takes place, as I have said many times, skepticism is to be expected. We were surprised to be invited to present and not surprised to be uninvited. The presentation would have been premature.
Our purpose was to suggest certain magnetic materials might want to be produced in quantities. These core materials are presently not easy to obtain. We will contact the firms that have the production capacity privately, following independent lab evaluations of our work. That is likely to prove to be the wiser course.
EarthTech International will be the first lab invited (at long last). Last week we had a call from a National Lab asking us to bring a prototype there as well.
The device reflected in the posted patent application exceeded unity by a very large margin. However, it was at an extremely low power level and the device has developed an internal short circuit that prevents it from continuing to function. Developing it commercially has proven to be a surprisingly difficult task. As stated earlier, it will result in a second, future, application that reveals details necessary to reproduce this invention in a manner that allows it to be OU. That project is on a back burner, as in trying to simplify the construction, entirely new and different families of what in the cancelled presentation would have been called ?energy harvesting? have emerged.
An example is the work referred to in a Proof-of-Concept, but not at that time OU, device in Lee Felsenstein?s article on our website. We now refer to that emerging group of generators as POWERGENIE? (Power Generation of Electricity by Nondestructive Interference of Energy) devices. The second patent pending is the first of several that will cover this very different technology. A POWERGENIE prototype has been OU. One of the newer designs may provide a near-term, solid-state, self-runner.
Four different devices in the Mechanical Division laboratory have also been repeatedly OU. However, the output is not electrical and the margins have not been sufficient to self-run. A prototype of a new design appears to be a good candidate for a self-runner, having moving parts. If so, this will meet our goal for a Demonstration Device, capable of being mass produced.
As we are very busy, this is all I am prepared to say at this time.
Cheers,
Mark
Ah, yes, Pennies, more of your arrogant ignorance on display.
As you will learn to your embarrassment, time wounds all heels!
@Mark, sure. So that would be a no, MPI was not extended a specific invitation to the conference. I didn't think so.
And that would be you don't want to discuss the actual circumstances surrounding the conference dropping you, even though you offered up the rejection with a tale of sour grapes.
And you don't wish to offer any credible response to the questions, so you go for your tired arrogance insult with a little shadenfreude on the side. Do you really expect those kinds of responses to impress the dwindling supply of fools that make up your remaining potential investor base? Were you to be confident of your claims you would be able to answer the questions. More importantly, you would want to so that your potential investor base wouldn't get the wrong ideas.
It has always been up to you to provide evidence of your wholly fantastical claims. Were you to actually present evidence of a new energy source you'd have all the money you could ask for and more. Instead, month after month, and year after year, you tell the same tired stories of how: you've got these amazing breakthroughs, you'll be subjecting them to independent test real soon, you're designing commercial products around the new, new breakthrough, and oh darn, the last amazing breakthrough is broken and can't be fixed. All but the most gullible of marks can see the bottom line: all you ever deliver is empty promises.
I am surprised that being located in Sebastopol you haven't tied up with that oh so fine operation Zap! Just think of the possibilities: You can claim that you're developing their 644HP power plant with those unobtanium based free energy generators. The first press release alone could cause a world-wide run on unobtanium.
Quote from: Overtone on April 23, 2008, 06:24:33 PM
Ah, yes, Pennies, more of your arrogant ignorance on display.
As you will learn to your embarrassment, time wounds all heels!
Quote from: Overtone on April 23, 2008, 12:36:22 PM
I was in our WA lab with Graham yesterday and assure you his status with MPI is unchanged.
The Magnetics Conference, not unexpectedly, has skeptics regarding magnetic energy conversion systems. Until independent lab validation of our work takes place, as I have said many times, skepticism is to be expected. We were surprised to be invited to present and not surprised to be uninvited. The presentation would have been premature.
Our purpose was to suggest certain magnetic materials might want to be produced in quantities. These core materials are presently not easy to obtain. We will contact the firms that have the production capacity privately, following independent lab evaluations of our work. That is likely to prove to be the wiser course.
EarthTech International will be the first lab invited (at long last). Last week we had a call from a National Lab asking us to bring a prototype there as well.
The device reflected in the posted patent application exceeded unity by a very large margin. However, it was at an extremely low power level and the device has developed an internal short circuit that prevents it from continuing to function. Developing it commercially has proven to be a surprisingly difficult task. As stated earlier, it will result in a second, future, application that reveals details necessary to reproduce this invention in a manner that allows it to be OU. That project is on a back burner, as in trying to simplify the construction, entirely new and different families of what in the cancelled presentation would have been called ?energy harvesting? have emerged.
An example is the work referred to in a Proof-of-Concept, but not at that time OU, device in Lee Felsenstein?s article on our website. We now refer to that emerging group of generators as POWERGENIE? (Power Generation of Electricity by Nondestructive Interference of Energy) devices. The second patent pending is the first of several that will cover this very different technology. A POWERGENIE prototype has been OU. One of the newer designs may provide a near-term, solid-state, self-runner.
Four different devices in the Mechanical Division laboratory have also been repeatedly OU. However, the output is not electrical and the margins have not been sufficient to self-run. A prototype of a new design appears to be a good candidate for a self-runner, having moving parts. If so, this will meet our goal for a Demonstration Device, capable of being mass produced.
As we are very busy, this is all I am prepared to say at this time.
Cheers,
Mark
Mark
Thanks for the update
Sorry that this world class jerk is trying to harass you
gary
Resonanceman, what information do you think you got from that supposed update?
Mark told us:
* The Magnetics Conference dropped MPI. Ckreol1 already told us that.
* He doesn't have anything in validation testing. They never have.
* An incredible story about how MPI had in their hands scientific proof of the greatest development perhaps of all time, but due to a shorted wire, they binned it and moved on to other ideas. In other words, MPI isn't very interested in trying to prove their claims. From their prior behavior, they never have.
* They have devices that supposedly show energy from some unknown source, yet the distinguishing behavior doesn't support that claim. This has been going on for more than a year.
* MPI has a second patent application for something different. ckreol1 told us that months ago.
* They do not have any self-running devices. They never have.
* They have mechanical devices they claim are OU. However they don't submit these devices to third party test. They never have.
So if you think there is something new there, I'd sure like to know what it is. All I see is the same old, same old, of: big promises, lame excuses, and no results.
If someday someone comes across a major development like discovery of a new energy source as MPI has now claimed for years, it will not matter how crude the device. It will not matter how viable or not the device is for commercial application. All that will matter will be the ability to confirm the new energy source through qualified independent test. Once that happens, the resources available to the inventor(s) will be essentially limitless. You really ought to ask yourself why perpetually cash strapped MPI goes to such great pains to avoid testing. You really ought to ask yourself why MPI never closes those big investment deals they talk about year after year after year.
Quote from: pennies_everywhere on April 24, 2008, 06:49:22 AM
Resonanceman, what information do you think you got from that supposed update?
Mark told us:
* The Magnetics Conference dropped MPI. Ckreol1 already told us that.
* He doesn't have anything in validation testing. They never have.
* An incredible story about how MPI had in their hands scientific proof of the greatest development perhaps of all time, but due to a shorted wire, they binned it and moved on to other ideas. In other words, MPI isn't very interested in trying to prove their claims. From their prior behavior, they never have.
* They have devices that supposedly show energy from some unknown source, yet the distinguishing behavior doesn't support that claim. This has been going on for more than a year.
* MPI has a second patent application for something different. ckreol1 told us that months ago.
* They do not have any self-running devices. They never have.
* They have mechanical devices they claim are OU. However they don't submit these devices to third party test. They never have.
So if you think there is something new there, I'd sure like to know what it is. All I see is the same old, same old, of: big promises, lame excuses, and no results.
If someday someone comes across a major development like discovery of a new energy source as MPI has now claimed for years, it will not matter how crude the device. It will not matter how viable or not the device is for commercial application. All that will matter will be the ability to confirm the new energy source through qualified independent test. Once that happens, the resources available to the inventor(s) will be essentially limitless. You really ought to ask yourself why perpetually cash strapped MPI goes to such great pains to avoid testing. You really ought to ask yourself why MPI never closes those big investment deals they talk about year after year after year.
Pennies,
Why do you give a shit what MPI does? It's not your money. Nor is it in rememberance of your late brother "Hans". Do you keep up this charade becuase Cyril and Dee both gave you a swift ass-kicking along with a dose of real physics? Is it because you are a perpetual loser, stuck in a dead-end job, with nothing better to do than wave the banner of "poppycock"?
So, why don;t you get off your ass, get drunk, get laid - and then see if you still give a rats-ass about MPI.
Grumpy frauds make for good circus entertainment. It's really rather astounding.
Poor Cyril's still confusing the solution of a specific integral for the expression of the integral itself. His horrific accounting has him spewing nonsense about how it's easy to get free energy, it's just you don't really get it, because nature secretly "claws it back". That's just indefensible pseudo-science drivel. Or perhaps you failed to notice that Cyril's silly ideas about SE magnetics haven't earned him any professional notice.
If you like MPI, defend them with facts. Attacking me doesn't deliver on MPI's long string of broken promises. Neither does it give any credibility to MPI's bunk. If you want real revenge on me, take all your money, and all the money you can borrow and hand it over to Mark Goldes. He'll be sure to reward you with just what you deserve.
Quote from: Grumpy on April 24, 2008, 09:21:38 AM
Quote from: pennies_everywhere on April 24, 2008, 06:49:22 AM
Resonanceman, what information do you think you got from that supposed update?
Mark told us:
* The Magnetics Conference dropped MPI. Ckreol1 already told us that.
* He doesn't have anything in validation testing. They never have.
* An incredible story about how MPI had in their hands scientific proof of the greatest development perhaps of all time, but due to a shorted wire, they binned it and moved on to other ideas. In other words, MPI isn't very interested in trying to prove their claims. From their prior behavior, they never have.
* They have devices that supposedly show energy from some unknown source, yet the distinguishing behavior doesn't support that claim. This has been going on for more than a year.
* MPI has a second patent application for something different. ckreol1 told us that months ago.
* They do not have any self-running devices. They never have.
* They have mechanical devices they claim are OU. However they don't submit these devices to third party test. They never have.
So if you think there is something new there, I'd sure like to know what it is. All I see is the same old, same old, of: big promises, lame excuses, and no results.
If someday someone comes across a major development like discovery of a new energy source as MPI has now claimed for years, it will not matter how crude the device. It will not matter how viable or not the device is for commercial application. All that will matter will be the ability to confirm the new energy source through qualified independent test. Once that happens, the resources available to the inventor(s) will be essentially limitless. You really ought to ask yourself why perpetually cash strapped MPI goes to such great pains to avoid testing. You really ought to ask yourself why MPI never closes those big investment deals they talk about year after year after year.
Pennies,
Why do you give a shit what MPI does? It's not your money. Nor is it in rememberance of your late brother "Hans". Do you keep up this charade becuase Cyril and Dee both gave you a swift ass-kicking along with a dose of real physics? Is it because you are a perpetual loser, stuck in a dead-end job, with nothing better to do than wave the banner of "poppycock"?
So, why don;t you get off your ass, get drunk, get laid - and then see if you still give a rats-ass about MPI.
Where is the fraud in this? MPI has made no "promises", no "guarantees". You invest your money - which is yours to do as you wish - in hopes that MPI will be able to develop a product that is profitable netting you a large return on your investment. This is no different than any other "investment". If you can not handle the risk - don't make the investment.
Time for that drink, Pennies.
Quote from: pennies_everywhere on April 24, 2008, 09:34:30 AM
Grumpy frauds make for good circus entertainment. It's really rather astounding.
Poor Cyril's still confusing the solution of a specific integral for the expression of the integral itself. His horrific accounting has him spewing nonsense about how it's easy to get free energy, it's just you don't really get it, because nature secretly "claws it back". That's just indefensible pseudo-science drivel. Or perhaps you failed to notice that Cyril's silly ideas about SE magnetics haven't earned him any professional notice.
If you like MPI, defend them with facts. Attacking me doesn't deliver on MPI's long string of broken promises. Neither does it give any credibility to MPI's bunk. If you want real revenge on me, take all your money, and all the money you can borrow and hand it over to Mark Goldes. He'll be sure to reward you with just what you deserve.
Grumpy the fraud is both blatant and brazen. Since at least 2004 MPI has consistently claimed posession of technologies they do not have, and know that they do not have. They have used those false claims to attract and obtain investments. MPI has materially benefitted from those investments. Those circumstances meet all five legal tests for fraud.
Quote from: Grumpy on April 24, 2008, 09:46:31 AM
Where is the fraud in this? MPI has made no "promises", no "guarantees". You invest your money - which is yours to do as you wish - in hopes that MPI will be able to develop a product that is profitable netting you a large return on your investment. This is no different than any other "investment". If you can not handle the risk - don't make the investment.
Time for that drink, Pennies.
Quote from: pennies_everywhere on April 24, 2008, 09:34:30 AM
Grumpy frauds make for good circus entertainment. It's really rather astounding.
Poor Cyril's still confusing the solution of a specific integral for the expression of the integral itself. His horrific accounting has him spewing nonsense about how it's easy to get free energy, it's just you don't really get it, because nature secretly "claws it back". That's just indefensible pseudo-science drivel. Or perhaps you failed to notice that Cyril's silly ideas about SE magnetics haven't earned him any professional notice.
If you like MPI, defend them with facts. Attacking me doesn't deliver on MPI's long string of broken promises. Neither does it give any credibility to MPI's bunk. If you want real revenge on me, take all your money, and all the money you can borrow and hand it over to Mark Goldes. He'll be sure to reward you with just what you deserve.
I find it funny that no Distric Attorneys agree with you. A crime so brazen would surely not go unnoticed by our legal authorities.
I find it funny that the investors are not shouting "fraud", but are eagerly contributing more money - in hopes of windfall profits.
As for what MPI possesses - you have no way of knowing, so any comments are pure speculation. There is a great deal of technology that most peple are not privy to. Be this under the realm of "national security" or "trade secrets" does matter. There will always be "technology" that you don't know exists and that is the way that the holders want to keep it
Get over it. The only fraud here is you defrauding your own mind. Apply all of this hate and energy to the persuit of knowledge and you'll accomplish great things.
Quote from: pennies_everywhere on April 24, 2008, 10:40:24 AM
Grumpy the fraud is both blatant and brazen. Since at least 2004 MPI has consistently claimed posession of technologies they do not have, and know that they do not have. They have used those false claims to attract and obtain investments. MPI has materially benefitted from those investments. Those circumstances meet all five legal tests for fraud.
Quote from: Grumpy on April 24, 2008, 09:46:31 AM
Where is the fraud in this? MPI has made no "promises", no "guarantees". You invest your money - which is yours to do as you wish - in hopes that MPI will be able to develop a product that is profitable netting you a large return on your investment. This is no different than any other "investment". If you can not handle the risk - don't make the investment.
Time for that drink, Pennies.
@Grumpy, unless you have opinion letters from DA's, your claim is false. Fraud like most white collar crime is a low priority in most jurisdictions. Lack of prosecution is hardly an indicator that there is no crime.
Name investors who are eagerly contributing money. MPI keeps complaining that "since the dot com bust" they've had extraordinary difficulty attracting dupes, er investors.
We know exactly what MPI does not posess: any of the energy technologies they have claimed. We know this by MPI's own statements and contradictory actions.
It's pretty comical that you assert that MPI has "a great deal of technology that most people are not privy to". Unless you claim to be an MPI insider, you have no basis for that statement. Even if you are an MPI insider, ( which would explain your anger with my posts ), there is no evidence for the technology you claim.
I do like your invocation of "National Security" though. When will you invoke the MIB and black helicopters?
Interrupting crime in progress is a worthwhile pursuit. It's both rewarding and fun.
Quote from: Grumpy on April 24, 2008, 11:19:27 AM
I find it funny that no Distric Attorneys agree with you. A crime so brazen would surely not go unnoticed by our legal authorities.
I find it funny that the investors are not shouting "fraud", but are eagerly contributing more money - in hopes of windfall profits.
As for what MPI possesses - you have no way of knowing, so any comments are pure speculation. There is a great deal of technology that most peple are not privy to. Be this under the realm of "national security" or "trade secrets" does matter. There will always be "technology" that you don't know exists and that is the way that the holders want to keep it
Get over it. The only fraud here is you defrauding your own mind. Apply all of this hate and energy to the persuit of knowledge and you'll accomplish great things.
Quote from: pennies_everywhere on April 24, 2008, 10:40:24 AM
Grumpy the fraud is both blatant and brazen. Since at least 2004 MPI has consistently claimed posession of technologies they do not have, and know that they do not have. They have used those false claims to attract and obtain investments. MPI has materially benefitted from those investments. Those circumstances meet all five legal tests for fraud.
Quote from: Grumpy on April 24, 2008, 09:46:31 AM
Where is the fraud in this? MPI has made no "promises", no "guarantees". You invest your money - which is yours to do as you wish - in hopes that MPI will be able to develop a product that is profitable netting you a large return on your investment. This is no different than any other "investment". If you can not handle the risk - don't make the investment.
Time for that drink, Pennies.
You are not a public prosecutor, and you have no evidence of a crime. It is not a crime to take investment money to support research and devlopment - even if the end result is not satisfactory to everyone.
The fact that MPI is still around, two years after Mark stated that funding was low is indicative of new investment capital or some other means of funding.
I did not state that MPI hs technology - I stated that there is technology. Countless corporations have technology that you know little of - who can say any of it works or does not unless they are privy to supporting data?
You are just pissing in the wind to feel the cool spray on your face.
Quote from: pennies_everywhere on April 24, 2008, 11:33:59 AM
@Grumpy, unless you have opinion letters from DA's, your claim is false. Fraud like most white collar crime is a low priority in most jurisdictions. Lack of prosecution is hardly an indicator that there is no crime.
Name investors who are eagerly contributing money. MPI keeps complaining that "since the dot com bust" they've had extraordinary difficulty attracting dupes, er investors.
We know exactly what MPI does not posess: any of the energy technologies they have claimed. We know this by MPI's own statements and contradictory actions.
It's pretty comical that you assert that MPI has "a great deal of technology that most people are not privy to". Unless you claim to be an MPI insider, you have no basis for that statement. Even if you are an MPI insider, ( which would explain your anger with my posts ), there is no evidence for the technology you claim.
I do like your invocation of "National Security" though. When will you invoke the MIB and black helicopters?
Interrupting crime in progress is a worthwhile pursuit. It's both rewarding and fun.
@Grumpy, I'll take your response as no you don't have any opinion letters from any DA who has looked at MPI.
When the perp knows they are making false claims as MPI does, and
the perp intends to deceive as MPI does, and
the perp intends to induce reliance as MPI does, and
one or more victims rely justifiably on the misrepresentations as anyone dumb enough to invest in MPI's free energy claims has, and
material value transfers from the victim to the perp as exchange of any supposed investment in MPI has
Then all five tests for fraud have been met.
R&D is not about making phony claims.
Yes, MPI indicates that they have defrauded investors for between $300k and $500k over the past couple of years.
What some other company or companies may or may not have is irrelevant. All that matters is the falsity of MPI's technology claims. And they are without question, false. MPI relentlessly pursues investor cash. MPI makes claims to working free energy devices. MPI makes these claims in defiance of all current physical knowledge. MPI refuses to submit their devices to any validation testing, the successful completion of which would provide them with virtually unlimited investment cash. Ergo MPI knows their claims to be false and/or makes their claims in reckless disregard for the truth. The latter is the legal equivalent of the former.
You can apologize for MPI all you want. It won't bring them any closer to delivering on any of their empty promises.
If you are actually interested in talking about supposed technology, I am happy to do that. If you are, I suggest you begin with the descriptions from Lee Felsenstein that MPI has been so keen to promote as proof of concept. Those descriptions do nothing to describe a black box that obtains energy from a previously unidentified source. They simply describe an ordinary shunt regulator. With ordinary components it is trivial to make a shunt regulator that: draws constant power from the source, and presents a low impedance to the load. And that is all that Lee describes as the behavior of the GENIE prototype.
Quote from: Grumpy on April 24, 2008, 11:54:47 AM
You are not a public prosecutor, and you have no evidence of a crime. It is not a crime to take investment money to support research and devlopment - even if the end result is not satisfactory to everyone.
The fact that MPI is still around, two years after Mark stated that funding was low is indicative of new investment capital or some other means of funding.
I did not state that MPI hs technology - I stated that there is technology. Countless corporations have technology that you know little of - who can say any of it works or does not unless they are privy to supporting data?
You are just pissing in the wind to feel the cool spray on your face.
Quote from: pennies_everywhere on April 24, 2008, 11:33:59 AM
@Grumpy, unless you have opinion letters from DA's, your claim is false. Fraud like most white collar crime is a low priority in most jurisdictions. Lack of prosecution is hardly an indicator that there is no crime.
Name investors who are eagerly contributing money. MPI keeps complaining that "since the dot com bust" they've had extraordinary difficulty attracting dupes, er investors.
We know exactly what MPI does not posess: any of the energy technologies they have claimed. We know this by MPI's own statements and contradictory actions.
It's pretty comical that you assert that MPI has "a great deal of technology that most people are not privy to". Unless you claim to be an MPI insider, you have no basis for that statement. Even if you are an MPI insider, ( which would explain your anger with my posts ), there is no evidence for the technology you claim.
I do like your invocation of "National Security" though. When will you invoke the MIB and black helicopters?
Interrupting crime in progress is a worthwhile pursuit. It's both rewarding and fun.
You are a "nobody".
You had many people duped into believing that you were some sort of "professional debunker" (Penny Gruber - aka sister of Hans Gruber - ala the Movie "Die Hard") on the Steorn Forum, but you were exposed when they called your bluff. What a beautiful day that was.
After years of this charade, what has it done for you but wasted your time? You have gained nothing from it except to temporarily escape your pathetic reality.
@Grumpy is that supposed to be an insult? Are you so tangled up that you think that any of the Die Hard movies had a Penny Gruber character, or professional debunkers in them? Who would be dumb enough to believe that a fictional movie character has a sister in the real world? I hope you're not looking for the heir to C. Montgomery Burns vast fortune.
If you actually want to talk about issues, I am game.
Toodles.
Quote from: Grumpy on April 24, 2008, 12:48:08 PM
You are a "nobody".
You had many people duped into believing that you were some sort of "professional debunker" (Penny Gruber - aka sister of Hans Gruber - ala the Movie "Die Hard") on the Steorn Forum, but you were exposed when they called your bluff. What a beautiful day that was.
After years of this charade, what has it done for you but wasted your time? You have gained nothing from it except to temporarily escape your pathetic reality.
Play dumb if you want, Pennies. I was on that forum when your "glass house" came crashing down - to the delight of many ;D Quite the charade you had going - but at last it could not sustain itself - it was not perpetual motion.
The only "fraud" is you.
Pennies the fraud! Pennies the fraud!
Grumpy, the Pennies/Gruber connection was a running joke. I knew at the time it was first brought up and so did others. Only those whose proclivity is to be taken were, ah, taken in.
The "fraud" with MPI is akin to three card Monte on a larger scale. Sure, you can bet your money but the game is rigged. That is not investment that is the parting of a fool and his money.
The sort that invest in such things reap what they sow - and the rest just laugh.
I merely wanted to point out that PE;s time and energy is better utlized on the other side of the fence. He will agree in time - unless he doesn't.
That makes no sense.
@Grumpy sorry but about the only person who didn't get that Hans was a joke was that all time perpetual motion mark: energyman8. If you dig out the Steorn discusssions you will see that when I first told the ever so sad tale of Hans' 1987 demise that someone immediately made the connection to the first Die Hard movie. Even with that energyman8 didn't get the joke, and swallowed the silly story of the dear departed Hans, and his master knowledge of scams: hook, line and sinker. It apparently never dawned on energyman8 that the plot of Die Hard was an elaborate scam to steal bearer bonds under guise of a terrorist attack.
I thought the ruse was a great joke. Months prior poor energyman8 had been taken by the crooks at GMCC even after others and I warned him that house of cards was going to fall well before it did. Energyman8 didn't listen and got burned. Rather than accept responsibility for his poor judgment and the actions of the con men at GMCC, that maroon blamed me for GMCC's demise. Even after the SEC shut GMCC down, energyman8 still believed the nonsense coming from the company that they were still developing a magic motor.
A few months after GMCC's crash he began shrill attacks against me on the Steorn board. Once I told the tale of Hans, energyman8 decided that I wasn't the horrible evil person he had been declaring after all. I ended the joke by making it incredibly obvious with the introduction of Simon and his 1995 death. The light bulb finally went on for energyman8 and he decided I was again an evil mistress.
The amazing thing about the whole episode is how distracted some people became by the notion of the Hans fantasy versus the very simple and direct discussion of Steorn's fantastical claims, and complete lack of evidence for same. As with anyone claiming to be rewriting current understanding, it was up to Steorn to provide evidence in support of their claims. Like MPI, they never did. Like MPI ( which comically claimed to have confirmed Steorn's BS claims in their own labs ), Steorn had nothing.
I don't know what became of energyman8. But from your silly tirades, it seems you two could be brothers.
Steorn flopped so bad hardly anyone wants to talk about it even,
and you're having a pissing contest about some prank pulled on their forum,
in a thread that is supposed to be about MPI and their claims...?
I fail to see the relevance.
MPI's claims are slightly similar to the Steorn claims, but where Steorn
tried to go public and the pubilc demonstration flopped and apparently
killed the Steorn hype, MPI is still only making claims and does not
even seem interested in demonstrating their devices publicly...
The rest of the claims and pr they spout is very similar to any other
purveyor of OU claims in the past decades.
But as long as they don't show anything, it's all talk...
I was JackFrost on the Steorn Forum. I spoke to you via email - believe you claimed to be in Atlanta at the time. It was me who pointed out that you were a man and not a woman. I know it was a joke. Youa re twisting what I am saying, so I am done talking.
>But as long as they don't show anything, it's all talk...
Apparently talk can get you a lot of money. Such is the con game.
Bobbotov it is indeed. But it's not just a GENIE, now it's a new and improved POWERGENIE! It's the miracle device that turns sucker money into cash for Mark and Graham. If you can't see it that's how you know it's working!
Oh no!
Pennies_everywhere found another forum to torture. That Bitch was the main cause of my late suscription to steorn Forum, I saw no real discussion, just a mud fight, until she left, and I joined just then.
Pennies, One day, not so distant, you are going to have a rough confrontation with the reality of Free Energy. Get your ass prepared!
@ChileanOne, today the only reality of Free Energy is that like the proverbial free lunch, there is none.
If someday someone does discover a new energy source, you can bet it won't be Mark Goldes and friends.
You seem to think that I don't like the idea of advancements in science. Quite to the contrary: I welcome them. The difference between advancements and bull shit is that advancements come with verifiable evidence.
Given that Steorn turned out to be just another phony free energy bust, it sounds like my posting saved you a lot of wasted energy. Why then are you so upset about my postings?
>That Bitch was the main cause of my late suscription to steorn Forum, I saw no real discussion,
Interesting. After two years on the Steorn forum I have seen no real product either and I think that trumps the discussions by a factor of infinity.
The key word in your first phrase was "Today".
I don't really know about Mark Goldes. He seems sincere, and AFAIK he is not rich or has made any fortune by claiming what he says to have. The problems of trying to market something deemed impossible are far beyond obvious. As a third world life scientist, which I am, I have seen many "impossibles" beaten in my rather short life, and in my job, we are currently culturing a very researched microalgae in "impossible" conditions, with a lot of economic revenue.
I accept skepticism and I ask any rational person to be skeptic as a first attitude. But from there to say that anyone claiming free energy must be a scammer, there's a long way.
What you say about Steorn could not be more wrong. I joined the forum and I could not be happier I did. Time will tell. Better, Time will Shout out Loud.
As I said, you'll be having your intelectual ass kicked badly, One Day, not so distant now.
Quote from: Bobbotov on April 25, 2008, 12:39:46 PM
>That Bitch was the main cause of my late suscription to steorn Forum, I saw no real discussion,
Interesting. After two years on the Steorn forum I have seen no real product either and I think that trumps the discussions by a factor of infinity.
Well, I admit the open forum is populated mostly by ghosts right now. I am talking about the opportunities and contacts that were generated in that forum, for me.
>Well, I admit the open forum is populated mostly by ghosts right now.
How long can a forum go on when the hosting company chooses not to engage? The focus will stray, people will start yawning and get restless. Steorn has made numerous statements over the past two years that they have not followed through on which by anyone's estimation is a bad business practice.
>I am talking about the opportunities and contacts that were generated in that forum, for me.
What possible opportunities could the Steorn forum provide that could be construed as worthwhile? There is not one bona fide scientist that I can ascertain that believes in this crap. Is it because scientists are really all Luddites at heart as the believers seem to think?
>But from there to say that anyone claiming free energy must be a scammer
After decades of FE claims not one has panned out and many have been proved to be less than honest in their intentions. So from where does one get this exalted state of hope from? Wishful thinking?
Real free energy and believing in free energy are two different things. The first is non existent and the second is an abundance that far exceeds reality.
@ChileanOne, since we agree that there is no free energy today, I assume that we also agree that there has never been free energy in the past. That means that there is no reality of free energy. You have a future hope for free energy, and for some reason a schadenfreude desire that some future discovery will cause me pain as a price for exercising critical reasoning today. That's silly and childish.
If you think that there is evidence for free energy, I am happy to discuss what you think you've got. If your evidence consists of people like Steorn, Joe Newman, Mark Goldes, etc just making claims, that evidence carries no weight.
It's easy enough to find out about Mark Goldes and his running free energy scam. Do some legwork.
It's easy to market technology that had prior to been considered as impossible: demonstrate it. What's hard to market are empty claims.
The burden of proof for claims that defy current knowledge is on the claimant, period. The need to provide verifiable evidence for a scientific claim is science 101. The free energy claimants to a one have never been able to establish verifiable evidence for their claims. That leaves self-delusion, and intentional fraud as the only options. In the case of Mark Goldes, the self-contradictions are so many and so massive that self-delusion is beyond consideration.
If you haven't figured out that Steorn was a ruse from the start, that's too bad. Perhaps when you eventually do accept the truth you will take the experience as a valuable lesson in your ability to self-delude. Steorn have shown you precisely zero evidence for what they claim. Recognizing that fact is a matter of basic critical competence. I will never owe any apologies for thinking clearly.