Alright, these are my specific questions. I am going to post them over on the hydroxy boards. Hopefully someone will be able to give me a few answers.
1. I understand that there is 71 cells in one of Bob Boyce's generators. My feeling is that this is because he is using just under two volts per cell. This why you have to take the voltage to the 130volt rang. Am I correct in this assumption?
2. Assuming that you go with the 71 cell set up, does the size of the plates have to stay at 6" x 6"? Would it be ok to make them 2" x 12"? vdubdipr thinks it would be ok, anyone else have an opinion on this?
3. What electrolyte would you use? I think that it is recommended to use lye. I don't know if that is correct.
4. In a situation where this is being used in a vehicle, how do you deal with the water sloshing around? Could you fill the airspace with air filter foam? What are other people doing?
5. I can't find anyone who know how much gas Brown's gas that a unit like this produces. I know that there is a lot of variable, but there must be a rough target. Most produced, least produced..... you know what I mean.
6. Do you have to build the Bob Boyce tuning circuit yourself, or can you buy one that someone else has produced.
7. I am still trying to get a baseline for how much Brown's gas it take to run a 4 cycle engine. I know that Bob's cell is supposed to make a more volatile version of the gas. Since it looks like I am going to produce this as my working cell, what does it actually take to run an engine? Let's say that I have a 2 liter engine, how much Bob Boyce Brown's gas is it going to take? I need to know this, because it will dictate how many of these cells I build for testing. It would also tell me if I have enough real estate, on my vehicle, to produce enough gas.
8. What is the service life of one of these cell? How often do they need to be cleaned? This is assuming I use distilled water and a recommended electrolyte.
9. I heard that there were some other materials, that might be more efficient for the plates. Anyone know what might be more efficient? There is a company that touts a coating for the plates, that supposedly increases production.
Thanks for taking the time to read this. If I can get some answers to these questions, I can start building away.
Paul
did you guys hear an echo in the room?
In my opinion you are asking the wrong questions at this point. My main concern would be total cost. 71 plates will add up and thats without the precision cut case. Don't forget about all the connectors, wiring, hose and other odds and ends you will need to finish the job. Bob sells the PWM on eBay for a couple of hundred bux. You will have to buy a toroid and wind it yourself or pay a bit of cash to have some one do it to your specs. In my experience building it yourself is not just cheaper but better since you know exactly what you want.
OK, now you have spent a bit of your money and you also have spent some hours of your time putting it all together and it's ready to roll for a test. If your extremely lucky or you know exactly how it works, it will work flawlessly on your first try. You will also be the first person ever to accomplish this so, congratulations would be in order. Realistically, you'll be testing for a while.
Now, let's say you have it working and you want to run your car on it. what kind of car do you want to install it in? Any vehicle that is computer controlled will make it real difficult and expensive to complete, none the less more testing to make it work properly. About at this time you realize that the water sloshes around and your getting water leakage to the engine. You are not that far yet, so the point is mute.
Have you seen a working Bob Boyce cell yet? Ever wonder why you haven't?
I don't mean to discourage you from building and testing, I just wonder if you have researched enough and made a plan of some sort. There are a few bumps on this long windy road if you know what I mean. If you think you can get a Boyce cell working then you can do a smaller version for testing and maybe try to run a 5hp motor with it and pray that a backfire wont destroy your cell, even with that fancy bubbler you may have. Hydrogen is more percussive than incendiary. The back pressure can rupture the cell without taking precautions.
Good luck!
Quote from: HeairBear on June 11, 2008, 10:32:14 PM
In my opinion you are asking the wrong questions at this point. My main concern would be total cost. 71 plates will add up and thats without the precision cut case. Don't forget about all the connectors, wiring, hose and other odds and ends you will need to finish the job. Bob sells the PWM on eBay for a couple of hundred bux. You will have to buy a toroid and wind it yourself or pay a bit of cash to have some one do it to your specs. In my experience building it yourself is not just cheaper but better since you know exactly what you want.
OK, now you have spent a bit of your money and you also have spent some hours of your time putting it all together and it's ready to roll for a test. If your extremely lucky or you know exactly how it works, it will work flawlessly on your first try. You will also be the first person ever to accomplish this so, congratulations would be in order. Realistically, you'll be testing for a while.
Now, let's say you have it working and you want to run your car on it. what kind of car do you want to install it in? Any vehicle that is computer controlled will make it real difficult and expensive to complete, none the less more testing to make it work properly. About at this time you realize that the water sloshes around and your getting water leakage to the engine. You are not that far yet, so the point is mute.
Have you seen a working Bob Boyce cell yet? Ever wonder why you haven't?
I don't mean to discourage you from building and testing, I just wonder if you have researched enough and made a plan of some sort. There are a few bumps on this long windy road if you know what I mean. If you think you can get a Boyce cell working then you can do a smaller version for testing and maybe try to run a 5hp motor with it and pray that a backfire wont destroy your cell, even with that fancy bubbler you may have. Hydrogen is more percussive than incendiary. The back pressure can rupture the cell without taking precautions.
Good luck!
OK, let me see if I can answer some of your points.
I have been posting on Boyce's email list and they seem to have trouble giving specific answers. My goal isn't to become an experimenter. That is not to say that I will have to figure out a working test cell, but I am certainly not going to build anything until I have a design which will serve my purposes. I figured that the Boyce cell would probably cost about 1000 bucks. I know the stainless alone was 500. That being said, if I could pay Bob to personally make a cell, which would do what I needed, I would.
I am, however, starting to have concerns about the Boyce process.
The sloshing around was a big concern and was included in one of my unanswered email posts.
My specific goal is to run a 200cc single cylinder engine, in the neighborhood of 15 hp. After reading, my feeling is that I will probably need about 15 LPM. This is my only goal. I don't want to run cars or anything else.
This is obviously where the problem lies. The only cell that has claimed these kinds of production rates in a reasonable amount of power are Bob Boyce's cells.
If someone had an alternative cell that could do the job, I would love to look into that.
Thanks for the reply,
Paul
If you're using electrolyte your wasting your time. It's impossible to achieve overunity when you have massive current flow, are consuming electrolyte, and are generating heat. Stick with adjustable frequency and pulse, and bifilar choke coils that Meyer's used.
Car that runs on water
Quote from: Farlander on June 12, 2008, 03:27:44 PM
If you're using electrolyte your wasting your time. It's impossible to achieve overunity when you have massive current flow, are consuming electrolyte, and are generating heat. Stick with adjustable frequency and pulse, and bifilar choke coils that Meyer's used.
Car that runs on water
If I can't generate 14 LPM from a cell, it won't do what I need it to do. If you have another option that generates that sort of production, with the power that Bob's cell does, I would love to know about it. Right now I am having trouble finding anyone who has a cell that does anything like that.
I am also having trouble getting confirmation on Bob's cell. Trying to contact him directly. I would just pay for one of his cells to skip over this part of the process.
if you skipped the step of building it yourself maybe youd feel less accomplished when you do.... the boyce cell is extremely precise and has a difficulty level of 10 out of 10. are you sure you know enough to use a boyce cell as a starting point? i definatley dont want to discurage you! but i mean damn... have you made a generator to boost a car? have you boosted a car? asking questions is not the way to go, read research and then do it agian, do you have the tools and equipment to make a boyce cell? there is some considerably costly equipment that you must have! my personal advice: learn how electrode surface area and electricity effect each other, figure out how to drop current flow threw wiring, and finally find somthing or make something that is air tight, start small dude, you need too because there are alot of tricks and skills, hand skills that you can only develop by hands on practice, asking a question and getting an anwer will not give you all that you need to know, it sounds like you need alot more knowlege b4 you even touch some stainless steel, or youll be sorry, like im a very on point construction field independant contractor, ive done it all and id still be hesitant about replicating aboyce cell when you could just make like 10 smaller booster stye electrolysers and utilize series and parallel tekniques to get the same effect peace
For definite results, and very inexpensive to build, may I suggest a GEET system. It has been replicated hundreds of times and proven to work with little effort. A simple google search will give you all the info you need. It has to be tuned to what type of fuel you use, whether it's watered down gasoline or Coke and ketchup. Best of all, there are no emissions! You can run it indoors if you have too. It's always good to have a backup plan if the water fuel cell doesn't pan out.
You might try your hand at building a Bedini motor too. Whats nice about the Bedini motors is the scalability of a simple design. It's also a great tool for learning the basics of Radiant Energy circuits. Having a good understanding of electronic circuits is a must for any water fuel cell enthusiast and the Bedini School Girl motor is a wonderful way to get started. It has also been replicated hundreds of times with information readily available on the net. You may also purchase one if your not up to building one.
Ever heard of a crystal radio? They work without any power connected to them and have been around since radio was invented. Another neat little circuit is the joule thief. It can light several LED's with one dead AA battery even though LED's require over 2V to operate. Understanding these devices may help you in the long run.
Cheers!
Quote from: vdubdipr on June 13, 2008, 12:03:47 AM
if you skipped the step of building it yourself maybe youd feel less accomplished when you do.... the boyce cell is extremely precise and has a difficulty level of 10 out of 10. are you sure you know enough to use a boyce cell as a starting point? i definatley dont want to discurage you! but i mean damn... have you made a generator to boost a car? have you boosted a car? asking questions is not the way to go, read research and then do it agian, do you have the tools and equipment to make a boyce cell? there is some considerably costly equipment that you must have! my personal advice: learn how electrode surface area and electricity effect each other, figure out how to drop current flow threw wiring, and finally find somthing or make something that is air tight, start small dude, you need too because there are alot of tricks and skills, hand skills that you can only develop by hands on practice, asking a question and getting an anwer will not give you all that you need to know, it sounds like you need alot more knowlege b4 you even touch some stainless steel, or youll be sorry, like im a very on point construction field independant contractor, ive done it all and id still be hesitant about replicating aboyce cell when you could just make like 10 smaller booster stye electrolysers and utilize series and parallel tekniques to get the same effect peace
First of all, let me say that I really do appreciate the advice and I hear you. I see the construction method of the Boyce cell and I doesn't strike me as excessively complicated. There are some specific parts that need to be machined to high tolerances, but no rocket science. The circuits are available off the shelf, but that iron coil looks a little tricky.
That being said, there are some other difficult things going on there, which I know require experience. I feel that those things are specific to the Boyce cell.
So you might ask: Why does he want to use the Boyce cell so bad? It is because I have yet to find another cell which will do what I need to, to complete my project.
My project is to run a 200cc engine on hydroxy. I am not interested in boosting cars or running generators, just that one application. Working on any cell, which will never apply to that application, is just not something I want to spend time on. I would rather work on a failed Boyce cell and then start over.
I have to know that I am applying my time to something that will move me towards my goal.
Anyway, i am pretty crafty
cool cool, tahe a look at this idk if youve read this or not but the is a good deal of ifo on boyce and alot of other things that you want to know here, u sugjest reading it all 4 times
http://merlib.org/mirror/pgfed bob is detailed in section 7 about halfway down
hope this helps peace
Quote from: vdubdipr on June 13, 2008, 09:43:35 AM
cool cool, tahe a look at this idk if youve read this or not but the is a good deal of ifo on boyce and alot of other things that you want to know here, u sugjest reading it all 4 times
http://merlib.org/mirror/pgfed bob is detailed in section 7 about halfway down
hope this helps peace
Thanks,
Read that. I will say that there are two issues that are probematic with the Boyce cell.
1. Size and weight
2. Slosh factor.
Hmmmm.
thanks,
paul