.... have actually built and installed one of the "water-for-fuel" devices in your cars??
What kind of MPG increases have you seen?? Not interested in what you have seen on youtube or what you have read on the Internet but from people who are actively using these devices in your vehicles. It seems like everyone on this forum should be using them....
Thanks,
Mike
Quote from: mbramble on June 18, 2008, 11:25:39 AM
.... have actually built and installed one of the "water-for-fuel" devices in your cars??
What kind of MPG increases have you seen?? Not interested in what you have seen on youtube or what you have read on the Internet but from people who are actively using these devices in your vehicles. It seems like everyone on this forum should be using them....
Thanks,
Mike
All water-to-fuel devices are scams, insofar as they promote the on-board conversion of water into hydrogen. This is because it costs more energy to make the hydrogen than the hydrogen will give back to engine.
Hydrogen powered cars and other hydrogen-assisting methods are legit, but the idea is to make hydrogen first and then put it in the car for use.
Dude... How u can tell that tease devises are not working?
It is natural that it takes more energy, Also u need to remind yourself that it work on alternator.
But ur getting better millage per gallon because hydrogen is increasing octane number in fuel, so it is making it more powerful and it makes more effective.
Also your MPG depends on engine set up... mostly. Ignishion timing and so on. U also may want to know that it is due hydrogen burns 1000x faster.
All gasoline devices are scams, insofar as they promote the on-board conversion of gasoline into vapors. This is because it costs more energy to make the gasoline than the gasoline will give back to engine.
gasoline powered cars and other gasoline-assisting methods are legit, but the idea is to make gasoline first and then put it in the car for use.
Funny!!!!
I've just started 'playing' with HHO so have no idea yet how it effects fuel usage. The point I wanted to make is that although my 1.4L car delivers about 30mpg, the mpg-readout tells me my average is 45mpg - so, is it possible that those nice people at Toyota could be trying to deceive people?...:)
Quote from: utilitarian on June 18, 2008, 12:12:08 PM
All water-to-fuel devices are scams, insofar as they promote the on-board conversion of water into hydrogen. This is because it costs more energy to make the hydrogen than the hydrogen will give back to engine.
Hydrogen powered cars and other hydrogen-assisting methods are legit, but the idea is to make hydrogen first and then put it in the car for use.
That is complete bullshit.
Surely HHO has more power in it than gasoline.
So using the small power from the alternator to produce HHO on demand
is actually increasing the whole efficiency of the car.
Why do otherwise cars can get 50 % more milage to the gallon gasoline
with such an onboard HHO generator ?
It is only because such systems use the primary gasoline energy
more efficient .
Instead a car having only 20 % efficiency now a car gets for instance
30 to 40 % efficient with an onboard HHO generator..
Thats telling him Stephan ' the big picture' Chet
5 outta 6 replies that don't answer the guys question...
i don't have a car mike, but my moped runs fine off it. plate cell, with its own battery, separate from the moped electrical. battery needs to be charged once in a while, usually over night or when it's not being driven. no idea on the mpg cause i really don't care. i don't pay for gas and that's my goal.
@ utilitarian
STFU ::) do you just talk alot? have you ever even built a cell?
@gculpex
LOL
it is still early,but my smack booster went from 22 mpg to 31,with just it and a map sensor device.btw,there is a local company where im from that is offering full install for 2 grand,kinda stiff,but they do guarantee a 50% increase in mpg.so,i have gained 9 mpg so far.
My opinion is that "HHO cells" (electrolysis) is not a free energy, but it can help ya to save some $on gasoline.
I calculated that u will need a cell which is able to get separation output to about 2000 l at 1 atm. then it obvious that u can run engine 100 % on hydrogen. But i really do no know how much KWh u need...
But it is obvious that u will need large alternator. maybe 10x maybe more, but for sure u will need to re calibrate ur engine coz hydrogen burns differently that gasoline does.
So iv did some math. IF ill compare hydrogen as a fuel to a propane, then it is guide possible that u can run car fully on hydrogen ( HHO cell). Also u may want to know that almost half of engine power will go to alternator, so u will need at least 15KW alternator (usually car got 1KW alternator)
They say that hydrogen is most effective fuel, so i guess if u will mod you engine then u can get along with smaller cell on board. ::)
Quote from: gculpex on June 18, 2008, 12:50:13 PM
All gasoline devices are scams, insofar as they promote the on-board conversion of gasoline into vapors. This is because it costs more energy to make the gasoline than the gasoline will give back to engine.
gasoline powered cars and other gasoline-assisting methods are legit, but the idea is to make gasoline first and then put it in the car for use.
Funny!!!!
Dude im rereading this tread... and i cant get a idea. Ur user with 3 posts. Ur using in forum named overunity, people there believe in such thing.
People there want to achieve something, but what about you. What is your purpose... make them "unbealive" it.
Im sorry but thing such as MPG increase by using on-board electrolysis is working and yea ... u can get 50 % out of it it depends on many things.
Quote from: gculpex on June 18, 2008, 12:50:13 PM
All gasoline devices are scams, insofar as they promote the on-board conversion of gasoline into vapors. This is because it costs more energy to make the gasoline than the gasoline will give back to engine.
gasoline powered cars and other gasoline-assisting methods are legit, but the idea is to make gasoline first and then put it in the car for use.
Funny!!!!
Definately a pure-hearted free energy person in the making 8).
Sorry fellas, rag on me all you want, but the math simply does not work out. Let's examine the situation.
Let's use Stephan's numbers. The efficiency of gasoline is 20%. The efficiency of HHO is 40%. Assume a given quantity of fuel has 100 units of energy.
Given that, a car running purely on gasoline will produce 20 units of mechanical energy to the wheels.
Let's take a car that can generate HHO gas onboard. Assume that half the gasoline energy is used to drive the car, and half is used to create HHO. Now, key question, what is the efficiency of gasoline in creating HHO? I do not know for sure, but by the time the energy gets to the alternator, it has already passed the engine, and has suffered all the heat and friction involved with that. We save some efficiency because we do not need to take into account friction and heat in the transmission and wheels, but we do have the added losses associated with the alternator, but let's say the efficiency of gasoline in creating HHO gas is 50% (as opposed to 20% for actually moving the car). This is probably generous, but let's go ahead and use 50% for sake of argument.
So, in a hybrid engine like this, we have 10 units of movement energy coming from the 50 units of energy in the gasoline. Then, we have 50 (from gasoline) x 50% (efficiency in creating HHO) x 40% (efficiency of HHO) = 10. So we have the same 20 units of energy as without the HHO. And, if the efficiency of gasoline conversion into HHO is less than 50%, which is quite likely, then you will actually have lower gas mileage than when you started.
Quote from: utilitarian on June 18, 2008, 08:26:31 PM
Sorry fellas, rag on me all you want, but the math simply does not work out. Let's examine the situation.
Let's use Stephan's numbers. The efficiency of gasoline is 20%. The efficiency of HHO is 40%. Assume a given quantity of fuel has 100 units of energy.
Given that, a car running purely on gasoline will produce 20 units of mechanical energy to the wheels.
Let's take a car that can generate HHO gas onboard. Assume that half the gasoline energy is used to drive the car, and half is used to create HHO. Now, key question, what is the efficiency of gasoline in creating HHO? I do not know for sure, but by the time the energy gets to the alternator, it has already passed the engine, and has suffered all the heat and friction involved with that. We save some efficiency because we do not need to take into account friction and heat in the transmission and wheels, but we do have the added losses associated with the alternator, but let's say the efficiency of gasoline in creating HHO gas is 50% (as opposed to 20% for actually moving the car). This is probably generous, but let's go ahead and use 50% for sake of argument.
So, in a hybrid engine like this, we have 10 units of movement energy coming from the 50 units of energy in the gasoline. Then, we have 50 (from gasoline) x 50% (efficiency in creating HHO) x 40% (efficiency of HHO) = 10. So we have the same 20 units of energy as without the HHO. And, if the efficiency of gasoline conversion into HHO is less than 50%, which is quite likely, then you will actually have lower gas mileage than when you started.
That's cobblers... If you put super-unleaded into a car instead of regular-unleaded, you get a performance and mileage improvement. So how can adding extra energy from HHO cause less MPG ?. The only thing that would cause a decrease in MPG, is if the engine increases the fuel mixture, due to the ECU thinking that the fuel is too lean. That's why some sort of shunt is needed to fool the oxygen sensor.
U did somebody sneeze OH bullshit I see did you know that the way car manufacturers decreased emisions was
A returning the unburnt fuel via an air pump into the EXHAUST to try and burn it some more
B put in catalytic converters in the exhaust to burn even more wasted fuel
carbon is a BIG molecule doesn't burn fast enough HHO propagates at 8500 feet per second helps carbon BIG time to get more bang for the buck THE newest designs for HHO are amazing production with small current you need to do more home work Chet
Quote from: Bulbz on June 18, 2008, 08:41:11 PM
That's cobblers... If you put super-unleaded into a car instead of regular-unleaded, you get a performance and mileage improvement. So how can adding extra energy from HHO cause less MPG ?. The only thing that would cause a decrease in MPG, is if the engine increases the fuel mixture, due to the ECU thinking that the fuel is too lean. That's why some sort of shunt is needed to fool the oxygen sensor.
Higher octane gasoline does not improve mileage, but merely reduces engine knocking.
Aside from that, in principle, adding hydrogen to the engine will improve gas mileage. So if you want to get more mileage out of your car, attach a tank with compressed hydrogen and voila. The trouble comes when you are trying to both drive the car and make HHO with the same supply of gasoline.
Quote from: utilitarian on June 18, 2008, 08:51:29 PM
Higher octane gasoline does not improve mileage, but merely reduces engine knocking.
Aside from that, in principle, adding hydrogen to the engine will improve gas mileage. So if you want to get more mileage out of your car, attach a tank with compressed hydrogen and voila. The trouble comes when you are trying to both drive the car and make HHO with the same supply of gasoline.
I have definately noticed that when I use the more expensive fuel, the tank does seem to lasts longer. It's a simple fact... The more powerful the fuel, the more work you get from it !.
U you need to study current events Chet
So, as of this entry, 180 people have viewed this thread and two have responded that they are using one of the devices.....
This is my problem. I want to believe (just like Mulder ;)). I have seen all the sites selling plans and giving wonderful reports on increases in gas mileage. If they are so wonderful, why isn't "anyone" (obviously there are two here) using them?? If all the claims are blown all out of proportion and you get -- say -- a 10% increase in MPG on average from many, many people using them - that would be a huge decrease in the amount of gasoline required to power automobiles, scooters, my generator (after a hurricane!), etc. If it's a 50% increase as noted in this thread and many of the 'water-for-fuel' (actually as a supplement to the fuel) sites claim, that would be massive for a country importing oil.
Other things I run across as I go to these web sites selling the plans -- they don't have any evidence that these things work. Why aren't these guys building units and selling them?? If I could build a unit for $50--$300 (depending on the web site you are viewing) that would provide up to 50% increase in MPG, I could sell them all day long for double-triple what it costs to make them. Everyone in my family would have one, all my friends would want one and I could open up a shop to make/install them. Now, that's not what I'm after but why isn't common practice?? Also, many of the folks on those web sites have pretty shady pasts. And then, at least two of the sites I hit today, are run by conspiracy nuts. But, they don't mention that they have actually built a unit, only that they sells plans for them (and many other 'fantastic' devices)....
Why hasn't everyone on this forum built and installed one in their own cars?? It makes no sense to me to KNOW that this works (as many folks here claim) and to still be paying for the same amount of gas that everyone else does in a car like yours. Even if you think you can come up with a better design, you'd have one of the current ones in your car while you come up with the 'perfect' unit. Please don't tell me that it's because the guys in black suits will whisk you away in the middle of the night. Not to be rude -- that's not my purpose for visiting this we site or making this post -- but the phrase 'put your money where your mouth is' comes to mind.
As I said, I really want to believe that these things work. And I would have no problem spending the money for the plans and for the materials to build one if I felt even a small tingle down my spine telling me that they do as advertised. That's the reason for this post. I'm -- personally -- not interested in all the scientific facts that tell me why it does because, frankly, I can find just as many folks with scientific facts who say that it can't. I just want to know who else is using one of these units and how it is performing for you.
Thanks,
Mike
Quote from: Bulbz on June 18, 2008, 09:08:59 PM
I have definately noticed that when I use the more expensive fuel, the tank does seem to lasts longer. It's a simple fact... The more powerful the fuel, the more work you get from it !.
That's just wishful thinking playing tricks on you. An octane rating is not an indication of power. All gasoline you buy has the same amount of energy, regardless of octane rating.
Hydroxy Boosters most likely improve performance by lubricating and cooling the engine, and maybe by improving the burn efficiency of gas (steam could also be a factor). Just calculating the joules contributed by hydrogen is misleading.
Lots of people claim to improve their fuel economy by at 30 percent or more, here is someone who has:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/1815-hydrogen-boost-honda-accord-kumaran.html
Quote from: mbramble on June 18, 2008, 09:22:20 PM
Why hasn't everyone on this forum built and installed one in their own cars?? It makes no sense to me to KNOW that this works (as many folks here claim) and to still be paying for the same amount of gas that everyone else does in a car like yours. Even if you think you can come up with a better design, you'd have one of the current ones in your car while you come up with the 'perfect' unit. Please don't tell me that it's because the guys in black suits will whisk you away in the middle of the night. Not to be rude -- that's not my purpose for visiting this we site or making this post -- but the phrase 'put your money where your mouth is' comes to mind.
As I said, I really want to believe that these things work. And I would have no problem spending the money for the plans and for the materials to build one if I felt even a small tingle down my spine telling me that they do as advertised. That's the reason for this post. I'm -- personally -- not interested in all the scientific facts that tell me why it does because, frankly, I can find just as many folks with scientific facts who say that it can't. I just want to know who else is using one of these units and how it is performing for you.
Thanks,
Mike
the reason why 'everyone' here hasn't built one is because this forum is full of armchair generals and physicists. take utilitarian for example, posts all over the place, but go read all this posers posts. you wont find a single instance of where the poser has done a replication of anything. what you will find is lots of posts where that poser is knocking something they have never even tried. posts with math to try and confuse the people with math phobias. lots of posts that don't ever address the main point of the thread but instead offer some knee jerk reaction, etc. ad infinitum, ad nauseam.
watch the poser reply to this and yet somehow not ever touch the questions you asked in the start of this thread...
@bulbz and jokker RE gculpex
i think you guys are misinterpreting gc's post. i'm pretty sure the post was meant to poke fun at the asinine statement by utilitarian. correct me if i'm wrong gculpex.
I have done my share of tinkering a long time ago, and I still enjoy technical discussions. Nothing wrong with that. Sorry if the math intimidated you, Wilby.
so you admit to being a 'has been' as well as a 'talking head'...
your cut and paste math does not intimidate me, thanks for proving my point poser
Mileage increasing is due hydrogen. ::) There is no such gas as HHO ... i quess it meant 2 H-s and 1 O, 2 H2 and O2...
Yea hydrogen is perfect as fuel, coz it contain more energy, also it is lightest element and after burning it combines back to H20. Also u may want to know that it emits more energy during burning and it does it very fast = more power. U do not need much air to burn hydrogen.
WilbyInebriated,
Thanks for the info. You said "i don't pay for gas and that's my goal". Are you using straight HHO on your moped?? Do you have any photos of your setup?? What plans did you use to build your cell??
Sprocket,
Thank you also. Have you actually installed a unit in your Toyota?? It's not clear to me, from the post, whether you were getting 30MPG before and 45 after the unit install -- or whether your unmodified car is actually getting 45 MPG vice the advertised 30MPG.....
Thanks,
Mike
Quote from: Jokker on June 19, 2008, 04:55:09 AM
Mileage increasing is due hydrogen. ::) There is no such gas as HHO ... i quess it meant 2 H-s and 1 O, 2 H2 and O2...
Yea hydrogen is perfect as fuel, coz it contain more energy, also it is lightest element and after burning it combines back to H20. Also u may want to know that it emits more energy during burning and it does it very fast = more power. U do not need much air to burn hydrogen.
What the bloody hell are you saying ?.
Bloody sure there's such thing as HHO.
Metal plates close together, immersed in H20 = Hyrdrogen + Oxygen mixture : AKA Hydroxy gas AKA HHO. Trying to produce huge amounts of pure Hydrogen from Hydrolysis is the problem.
hi mike, yup straight HHO, no photos. i didn't use plans. played around with different configs and learned something from each one. currently using neutral plates.
i would recommend learning the workings of small engines if you don't know them already. you will need to modify your timing.
Quote from: WilbyInebriated on June 19, 2008, 10:51:20 AM
hi mike, yup straight HHO, no photos. i didn't use plans. played around with different configs and learned something from each one. currently using neutral plates.
i would recommend learning the workings of small engines if you don't know them already. you will need to modify your timing.
Did you just say
straight HHO. You mean that you have an engine running without gas :). Please do some photo's ;D.
@bulbz and jokker RE gculpex
i think you guys are misinterpreting gc's post. i'm pretty sure the post was meant to poke fun at the asinine statement by utilitarian. correct me if i'm wrong gculpex.
correct!!!!!!
Why pay for plans when smack booster gives it away for free : http://www.smacksboosters.110mb.com/ (http://www.smacksboosters.110mb.com/)
advance the timeing why?
well cuz the hho is explosive far more than gas so the piston must be past tdc so as to avoid back fire you want to smak it on the down stroke
no?
i saw a vid on youtube some where showing the timeing at 70deg in a v8 running dirrectly from hho
humm it makes me wonder do do do
ist
Quote from: innovation_station on June 20, 2008, 01:34:05 AM
advance the timeing why?
well cuz the hho is explosive far more than gas so the piston must be past tdc so as to avoid back fire you want to smak it on the down stroke
no?
i saw a vid on youtube some where showing the timeing at 70deg in a v8 running dirrectly from hho
humm it makes me wonder do do do
ist
You're right on the timing.
HHO burns much faster than gas AND creates vacuum as exhaust because it recombines into water.
I'm starting to wonder if 2 cycle engines with an intake oil sprayer might be something to investigate. Also, wankel engines.
I've posted in another thread (wanting to use JUST the vacuum from the explosion, he hadn't really played w/ HHO yet.) about the stroke of a 4 cycle engine maybe being too long and the vacuum from the exhaust working against the piston power stroke because of the explode/condense cycle finishing before the stroke does.
We can use HHO to supplement gasoline for a gasoline engine, but can we really hope to run pure HHO in one that was designed to utilize the burn of gasoline?
As for HHO supplementation, I plan on getting my early 90's Toyota Camry (33+ mpg with mixed highway and city) a cell done this week and will post results here and the Tube.
As for mileage boost, there are many with positive results on the Tube, and if you take miles traveled divided by gallons used to fill your tank you can find your MPG and see if you get a boost.
I recommend searching up CSIROCKSUS, sirHOAX, d3adp00l, UNCWMrSalty, SmartScarecrow, dallasgoldbug, sidyoung, and crob227 on the Tube......
....but as you'll see, the world of HHO experimentation can open a Pandora's box of learning.
:D
Quote from: utilitarian on June 18, 2008, 12:12:08 PM
All water-to-fuel devices are scams, insofar as they promote the on-board conversion of water into hydrogen. This is because it costs more energy to make the hydrogen than the hydrogen will give back to engine.
Hydrogen powered cars and other hydrogen-assisting methods are legit, but the idea is to make hydrogen first and then put it in the car for use.
Your dead wrong and don't really understand how these boosters work. Build one yourself, install it and then check your mileage. I did, and it works. I use less gasoline and it's not doing any damage to my engine or charging system.
Ok, here we go. I have a 1988 Chevy Silverado 2500 5.7. I've done a few modifications to it over the years. When it was new it got about 16 mpg. Here's the mods: shaved the throttle body to allow more air flow. Throttle body spacer, injector spacer, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, high performance fuel pump, Airaid intake with K&N air filter, Halo spark plugs, MSD coil and wires, free flow cat and Flowmaster exhaust, and I rewrote my ECM with my laptop. I think that most everything, anyway after these mods mileage went to 20 to 22 highway.
Now I've built a few Smack boosters with modifications, manly using 22 gauge 316L stainless plates 8 x 3.25. 18 plates spaced 1mm and held with 1/4" SS all thread rods. Running 12v to the booster with a PWM, amperage between cells is around 1.3 and warmed up it's around 1.8 to 2.0. Don't know the LPM output the the bubbler goes wild. Mileage so far on highway is up to 28 and I hope it get's better as the plates become more conditioned with time. Things I noticed with the booster on, motor runs smoother, idle has been adjusted down to 800 rpm and is very smooth. Throttle response is quick, torque is up and the tires BARK! easily into 3rd gear when the tranny shifts. Other thing I noticed is a puff of steam in the mornings at start up. I've been able to lean out my fuel mix without burning plugs or valves. The HHO is piped right into the air cleaner plenum just before the butterflies.
I don't know about the nay sayers, but I'm sticking with this and I will get much better at it also as I learn more and more.
Ther's some nice HHO electronics at http://www.extremehho.com
Just some small facts you might want to know before you all start down this trail...
1. The higher the octane the slow the fuel burns... HUH?!? SLOWER??? yes slower, slower burning fuels give of more power when under compression and are safer to transport (aledgedly).
2. To run your car off HHO is a bigger task than a booster. A booster if set up properly can utilize THE EXCESS power that your alternator produces to power your cell. I have seen people lean their engines right down to almost 70% gains in KM/L (thats kilometers per liter) but they are cars that have been specifically altered and customized for their cells.
3. You best gains will be in if you use the highest grade fuel you can and the most HHO you can produce (find a cell design you like and buy an "off the shelf" controller curcuit and give it a go... worst case senario is you lean your car out to much and it stalls so adjust your mix and keep going.
some suggestions i have is get your cylinders and pistons ceramic coated and stainless steel valves if you plan on running HHO anywhere near 70%. this will stop cylinder rusting if your car sits there for to long.
Don't worry about hydrolisation, there was a case study done (i can't rememebr the link but it was years ago) that it would take in excess of 4-5 years of extreme use under pure HHO running for the effects of hydrolisation to effect your engine in anyway. If you want to do more than just a small percentage of HHO production for your engine (more than 15%) upgrade your alternator. Funnily enough they do all have different outputs and there are upgrades out there usually in the Audio sound groups they want bigger alternators to power their speakers...
This is not a self sufficient power for cars... YET... but it is getting there.
As for proof on the 70% gains in milage i should point out that the car has 2 alternators installed and has almost no top-end power. (he can cruise at 150km/h though, speed limit here is 110km/h). His acceleration is about the same as normal.
Booster should work by utilizing your unused power generated by your alternator (careful here as the amount of power generated is proportional to the impact it has on your engine.)
@CrazyEwok
You REALLY should watch the videos that Roy McAllister has out. You have stated some truths, but not all you have posted
is correct. Just an observation, not a call to arms! :)
Hey Frog.
I'm not saying everything is true i am saying that it is my opinion. But if some of what i have said is true and some not ture point out the non-truths if you can for i am installing my 4th cell revision this weekend and if you can improve my system i would greatly appreciate it?
Quote2. To run your car off HHO is a bigger task than a booster.
Not so, only HHO
pressures between 5-15 psi are required (5 psi to idle, 15 psi acceleration). Watch videos by Roy McAllister and others on YouTube
Quote3. You best gains will be in if you use the highest grade fuel you can.
No Fossil Fuels are required to run with HHO systems. Recirculate your exhaust gasses, pcv gasses, HHO and h2o mist
then send into your engine. viola Dingle, Stan, GEET and many others systems are based on these simple systems. Fuel
VAPOR. Also research DIESEL ENGINES & WATER/Alcohol/Methanol INJECTION
Quotesome suggestions i have is get your cylinders and pistons ceramic coated and stainless steel valves if you plan on running HHO anywhere near 70%. this will stop cylinder rusting if your car sits there for to long.
Again, NOT REQUIRED. Check out some of the YouTube videos on engines running solely HHO, they're ULTRA CLEAN and cooler running, some of them have pulled old engines apart after running HHO after many years of FOSSIL fuel use only to find
their engine is almost NEW inside. Clean Valves, HEADS, everything.
QuoteIf you want to do more than just a small percentage of HHO production for your engine (more than 15%) upgrade your alternator. Funnily enough they do all have different outputs and there are upgrades out there usually in the Audio sound groups they want bigger alternators to power their speakers...This is not a self sufficient power for cars... YET... but it is getting there.
SEE response to #2
Again, this is not a call to arms, only trying to get everyone on the same damn page w/o all the fighting.
Quote from: frog on December 15, 2008, 06:50:01 PM
Not so, only HHO pressures between 5-15 psi are required (5 psi to idle, 15 psi acceleration). Watch videos by Roy McAllister and others on YouTube
Unfortunately i believe as much in youtube videos as i do the tooth fairy. I'm not saying it is all rubbish but a lot of it is taken with bad footage at poor quality and doesn't show everything... Just IMO. There are some useful things on there though.
Quote from: frog on December 15, 2008, 06:50:01 PM
No Fossil Fuels are required to run with HHO systems. Recirculate your exhaust gasses, pcv gasses, HHO and h2o mist
then send into your engine. viola Dingle, Stan, GEET and many others systems are based on these simple systems. Fuel
VAPOR. Also research DIESEL ENGINES & WATER/Alcohol/Methanol INJECTION
Yes recycling your exhaust is a great way to improve efficiency. But i was answering his question about if a booster would improve his milage.
Water power car = FANTASTIC... Water boosted car = better than straight gas...Quote from: frog on December 15, 2008, 06:50:01 PM
Again, NOT REQUIRED. Check out some of the YouTube videos on engines running solely HHO, they're ULTRA CLEAN and cooler running, some of them have pulled old engines apart after running HHO after many years of FOSSIL fuel use only to find
their engine is almost NEW inside. Clean Valves, HEADS, everything.
I agree not required... if you don't ever let your car sit stagnant for any period of time... Personally i leave my car at home some holidays etc. But they cases where that sort of upgrade would be necessary is when your car may/will sit for lengthy periods of time between running it when the water vapour will settle on metal surfaces... BUT the steam from running it does make the inside VERY SHINY!!! also on a side note it has (unconfirmed on the net, but i have seen it) where the steam produced etc can smooth small burrs etc...
Quote from: frog on December 15, 2008, 06:50:01 PM
SEE response to #2
The upgrade would be if you already use a lot of that power supplied on sound systems or a not so efficient cell to produce the HHO.
Quote from: frog on December 15, 2008, 06:50:01 PM
Again, this is not a call to arms, only trying to get everyone on the same damn page w/o all the fighting.
I don't believe blind arguing is going to help anyone. there are people that want to see everyones point of view and idea incorporate them all into their own as they want to and encourage others... then there are people that will tell you your wrong because your not doing it like someone else. They are the ones that are unfortunate and i personally try to ignore their comments and look for anything that may be constructive in their posts. Frog you won't be attacked by me for stating something different, you may be in-ordained with questions because i want to know how you did it :P but that's only me being curious not being argumentative.
Quote
Unfortunately i believe as much in youtube videos as i do the tooth fairy. I'm not saying it is all rubbish but a lot of it is taken with bad footage at poor quality and doesn't show everything... Just IMO. There are some useful things on there though.
I agree, tons of useless info, but again even more USEFUL info even within these videos, I dissect everything.
QuoteYes recycling your exhaust is a great way to improve efficiency. But i was answering his question about if a booster would improve his milage. Water power car = FANTASTIC... Water boosted car = better than straight gas...
I got it .. :)
QuoteI agree not required... if you don't ever let your car sit stagnant for any period of time... Personally i leave my car at home some holidays etc. But they cases where that sort of upgrade would be necessary is when your car may/will sit for lengthy periods of time between running it when the water vapour will settle on metal surfaces... BUT the steam from running it does make the inside VERY SHINY!!! also on a side note it has (unconfirmed on the net, but i have seen it) where the steam produced etc can smooth small burrs etc...
This actually REDUCES friction created during the burn process, reducing HEAT, creating an increase in efficiency.
Quote
The upgrade would be if you already use a lot of that power supplied on sound systems or a not so efficient cell to produce the HHO.
This is a non issue, as you are working with on-demand
pressures, like your A/C system. Keep your "system" "charged" at a desirable pressure and the load is reduced.
Quote
I don't believe blind arguing is going to help anyone. there are people that want to see everyones point of view and idea incorporate them all into their own as they want to and encourage others... then there are people that will tell you your wrong because your not doing it like someone else. They are the ones that are unfortunate and i personally try to ignore their comments and look for anything that may be constructive in their posts. Frog you won't be attacked by me for stating something different, you may be in-ordained with questions because i want to know how you did it :P but that's only me being curious not being argumentative.
I have posted my tests and setup. I don't have a vcam only stillcam. I'm using EGR, PCV, Hydrogen (from cell) and water/mist injection to run a generator (50 kW).
And the only reason I keep referring to YouTube videos is that I do not own a vcam. I tried to prove out these
videos and they do work. Most are pretty primal, requiring HUGE currents + chemicals to achieve results that
are equal to lower currents and NO chemicals.