Oke seeing the significance of this I decided to start a new thread.
check -> http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5034.msg109323.html#msg109323
I think I've found what some might call the holy grail. I found a wheel that exerts more force on one side all the time. I call it the superwheel! I did many wm2d tests and I concluded it's just rubbish trying to simulate it since while it's giving me the correct forces the overall behavior is wrong. My latest simulation includes computing my own torque (by using the cross product) of the contribution of both opposite joints. And what I can conclude is that there's about 10x more torque on one side. Which also is inline with what the theory would tell you. Wm2d's torque on the other hand is faulty as can be seen in the simulation as well.
Here's a high res video...
http://ziosproject.com/NJ/superwheel3.rar (http://ziosproject.com/NJ/superwheel3.avi)
Here's the simulation file...
http://ziosproject.com/NJ/superwheel.wm2d (http://ziosproject.com/NJ/superwheel.wm2d)
And a pic of it at about 5 o 'clock so you can see the values...
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fziosproject.com%2FNJ%2Fsuperwheel5.PNG&hash=fa04488a1e2caff6f9af88281597f9b6c0f5d33d)
Please give some feedback!
Edit:I already have a V2 ;D. It's indeed this simple.
http://ziosproject.com/NJ/superwheel2.wm2d
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fziosproject.com%2FNJ%2Fsuperwheel6.PNG&hash=e9ff5fe581e5899e6224858e2c45aae9679c5e23)
PS: Why are the pics fuzzy only in the post.
Greetings broli
I have seen these actions before in my slide weight units without the controls. So I am afraid to tell you that you don't have it yet. But remember what Bessler said about lifting 4lb with 1lb and try to work something that does that in your simulations and then you will be on the wright track.
Quote from: AB Hammer on July 01, 2008, 09:06:25 PM
Greetings broli
I have seen these actions before in my slide weight units without the controls. So I am afraid to tell you that you don't have it yet. But remember what Bessler said about lifting 4lb with 1lb and try to work something that does that in your simulations and then you will be on the wright track.
hey hammer, you'll need to give me more info than a vague reference. Why wouldn't it work? There's clearly more force on one side. Do you understand the concept?
@ broli
The force is greater for a very short time, then it becomes a negative force against you. This keeps the lift from going over and then it just rocks back and forth until stop. I have seen it over and over in attempts with any form of sliding weight. But all is not lost, but you will have to learn how to float a weight. I know floating a weight seems like a riddle, but it is as it sounds, to make a heavy weight light, so it can be moved with a quarter of the weight or less. This keeps the counter balance from counter acting on the shifts effect.
For a very short time? Do the numbers of the simulation not convince you? The force is almost at all times 10x larger. And I'm not using a shifting weight concept. This is why I asked whether you understood the concept which I doubt you did. I guess I have to try and build this my own.
Quote from: broli on July 02, 2008, 03:08:56 AM
For a very short time? Do the numbers of the simulation not convince you? The force is almost at all times 10x larger. And I'm not using a shifting weight concept. This is why I asked whether you understood the concept which I doubt you did. I guess I have to try and build this my own.
@broli
The link to the movie is not valid.
Can you activate it ones more.
Perhaps it is possible to you to describe the setup a little more. So one can think to rebuild it.
helmut
@broli
For each action there is an opposite and equal reaction. This holds true and you have to learn how to make this work for you. To build is the only way you will see what I am talking about. WM2D is a great planner devise, but it is not an honest test of a wheel type device.
Sorry the hyper link was showing the correct address but linking to a .avi which should be .rar
http://ziosproject.com/NJ/superwheel3.rar (http://ziosproject.com/NJ/superwheel3.rar)
And hammer I know that that's what I'm using. At the top and bottom the forces are almost equal but this starts to grow as it goes to 3 o'clock. While the other side also grows but not as much. Like I said earlier the right side can hit a theoretical force of infinite and this is apparent as wm2d crashes when I make the rope length as short as possible. I have seen the limit of this software and that's why I'm going to build it. For other that want a better explanation you can find me in the following irc channel...
http://irc.netsplit.de/channels/details.php?room=%23free-energy&net=IrCQ-Net
I'd rather talk to you in realtime so I can explain it better.
Is this not a variation of MT_20?
Quote from: AB Hammer on July 02, 2008, 04:43:23 AM
@broli
For each action there is an opposite and equal reaction. This holds true and you have to learn how to make this work for you. To build is the only way you will see what I am talking about. WM2D is a great planner devise, but it is not an honest test of a wheel type device.
Alan, to make a heavy weight light the weight itself has to hold itself up which isnt that hard, I have done it, but to make the weight light in the wheel would be sightly different as the weight has to have no effect on the ascending side of the wheel...
A 9 kg rim mass wheel can be accelerated to 1.4007 m/sec by placing a 1 kg mass on its edge and allowing the mass to drop one meter. Acceleration is .981 m/sec and the formula used is d = 1/2at? or d = 1/2v?/a. The motion of the wheel has been caused by a force that is equivalent to 9.81 newtons (1kg) acting for 1.4278 seconds.
If all this motion of the wheel is transferred to the overbalanced mass, the 1 kg mass can move against the force of gravity for 1.4278 seconds. In 1.4278 sec the mass will have risen 10 meters, d = .5 * 9.81 * 1.4278 *1.4278. The overbalanced mass was only dropped one meter.
Do the motion transfer from the wheel to the overbalanced mass and disconnect the mass. Throw the overbalanced mass up for the ascending function of the wheel.
Broli let your wm2d evaluate the cylinder and spheres (the motion transferring device) and see what it comes up with.
Quote from: pequaide on August 01, 2008, 06:59:43 AM
A 9 kg rim mass wheel can be accelerated to 1.4007 m/sec by placing a 1 kg mass on its edge and allowing the mass to drop one meter. Acceleration is .981 m/sec and the formula used is d = 1/2at? or d = 1/2v?/a. The motion of the wheel has been caused by a force that is equivalent to 9.81 newtons (1kg) acting for 1.4278 seconds.
If all this motion of the wheel is transferred to the overbalanced mass, the 1 kg mass can move against the force of gravity for 1.4278 seconds. In 1.4278 sec the mass will have risen 10 meters, d = .5 * 9.81 * 1.4278 *1.4278. The overbalanced mass was only dropped one meter.
Do the motion transfer from the wheel to the overbalanced mass and disconnect the mass. Throw the overbalanced mass up for the ascending function of the wheel.
Broli let your wm2d evaluate the cylinder and spheres (the motion transferring device) and see what it comes up with.
I will if I figure out what you mean.
QuoteAcceleration is .981 m/sec
Acceleration? I'm a bit confused here.
Standard acceleration of gravity is 9.81 m/sec but the one kilogram is accelerating 9 other kilograms for (1 kg / 10 kg) * 9.81 = .981 m/sec. It is the same physics as an Atwood?s machine.
Please use correct units then next time... m/s^2
You are correct m/sec?
The final velocity of a pendulum bob is determined by how far the bob had dropped. The final velocity is not determined by the size of the pendulum or the degrees through which the pendulum has swung. You can use d = ? at? or d = ? v?/a, where d is the distance dropped, to determines the final velocity of a pendulum bob. This velocity tells use what force is available to us for what period of time.
A one kilogram pendulum bob that must accelerate nine other kilograms will have an acceleration of .981 m/sec? instead of 9.81. We now know d (1 meter) and a (.981 m/sec?), from the equation above (d = ? v?/a) we can determine final velocity (1.4007 m/sec) for 10 kilograms.
The overbalanced mass on a balanced wheel is like a pendulum bob that is accelerating more than just itself.
I don't think most people understood what I went for. Maybe ABhammer did. But I wasn't using any over balancing idea. I was trying to bend vector analysis. I think I found a way to do it now. I'd like most of you guys on some instant messaging service like an IRC channel or something. Real time talk is much more productive and helpfull.
I'm a real rookie at this stuff but you seem to be using a vertical displacement to change the center of gravity, which is what MT_20 does - no idea what bending vector analysis entails!
@P-Motion - I also tried using 4 weights with WM2D - it appears to be even less inclined to continue rotating than the 2 weight version...
Using very simple rods and ropes in theory I can make a wheel that makes weights on one side invisible. Meaning you can lift them with any weight you want on the other side. Although in reality the internal forces will be ginormous, and that's what I'm currently trying to figure out how to do it in a relaxed and harmonized way :p.
PS: I'll ask AGAIN...do you guys use some instant messaging software or not! You can find me on MSN and IRC where I'll be glad to chat.
@P-Motion - The AQ thread thas more or less convinced me that using Newtonian math, PM is indeed impossible, similarily, I believe that getting working PM with WM2D is also impossible - good for helping you visualise stuff though. In the end, I'm going to have to bite the bullet and build it for real...
Below, an attempt at an MT_20 'helper'. Each of the prime movers has it's own secondary weight on a pulley system, beginning at the axel. As one rests on the other though, their combined weight is used to help the large weights 'switch' alternately...
Also please share you wm2d files if you build a model guys!
I have no problem posting the WM2D files - its just that few will have any use for them...
Here's the 4 weight version.
@P-Motion - nothing bigger than bicycle-wheel size! Not sure it will be a MT_20 variant either - MT_27 seems to be a more interesting prospect. btw, I tried combining the two on WM2D but they don't seem to want to co-operate! :D