I have been pondering building one of these units for the past 2 years.
While doing some further research with that in mind, I happened upon the web site of a guy in Missouri who makes them.
After a phone call I was suitably impressed to oder one of his units...which should arrive in app 2 weeks.
According to him my energy bill will be a fraction of what it was.
I hope and believe this will help people living on a shoe string budget.
Here is his web site...
http://hydroage.net/_mgxroot/page_10773.html
Regards...
$875 :o :o :o
Holy crap, these guys aren't afraid to charge for a couple of pieces of pipe eh?
I'll be very interested to hear if this works as advertised.
Please keep us posted.
ciao, Dirt
Quote from: Cap-Z-ro on August 01, 2008, 02:59:08 PM
I have been pondering building one of these units for the past 2 years.
While doing some further research with that in mind, I happened upon the web site of a guy in Missouri who makes them.
After a phone call I was suitably impressed to oder one of his units...which should arrive in app 2 weeks.
According to him my energy bill will be a fraction of what it was.
I hope and believe this will help people living on a shoe string budget.
Here is his web site...
http://hydroage.net/_mgxroot/page_10773.html
Regards...
This is like the russion Invention and construction , that come not on the market,
(possibly that is not wanted, so long oil is flowing ... after this other engings can be used,
that the money is "flowing" any time longer. The money must go round ... not "free energies!"
The problem ist this, the peoply will als "ern money"
Pese
Then there's these guys.
http://www.hydrodynamics.com/
@
Can you a bit explain to us, what you expect to get.?
Since i have made a replication last year in september it is of much interest.
My rebuild was not working as expectet.
Is the driver Motor includet, or do you need to make a application by your selve?
helmut
@helmut
Quote from: helmut on August 02, 2008, 07:33:11 AM
Is the driver Motor includet, or do you need to make a application by your selve?
helmut
I'm just reading the link here ~ the motor is included. You order it with either a 12Vdc motor or 110Vac induction motor.
Everything else looks like it's included. You'd need to supply some external cabinetry of some type, it looks like it
might fit nicely inside a duct pipe. You probably have to supply the fluid too. It *is* a pricey little thing though isn't it
...one could darned well expect it will work! I'm interested in overunity heating too that does not use any volitile fuels,
hoping you will let us know how it goes, nice find. Cap-Z-ro
:S:MarkSCoffman
Quote from: helmut on August 02, 2008, 07:33:11 AM
Since i have made a replication last year in september it is of much interest.
My rebuild was not working as expectet.
helmut
Your replication did not work? Then why you believe this one will?
I want to understand but cant - why it mast to be get heated? I did read from many places but explanations mostly like garbled tommyrot,
What is the best RPM for?
Regards,
khabe
PS:
Even it works - hot oil does not give any bad smell in your house?
I dont see adequate sealings!!!
The original device was patented by a man named Frenette from Londonderry NH. This device goes back to the last energy crisis in the 70's. The story goes that when he got down off of a piece of heavy equipment that he was running, he burned his hand on one of the hydraulic cylinders and got the idea from that.
I had a friend that built one and we asked another friend that worked as a thermal engineer to come over and test it. He threw an ammeter on the input power cord to the drive motor and calculated the thermal output from the fan. Sure enough, there was more energy blowing out of the machine than was being used! Amazing!.......not.
What we didn't take into account was the fact that energy was being accumulated and stored in the device while it was running prior to taking the measurements so that a short test would show more out than in. After realizing this, over time, the temperature dropped and it was just producing what you would expect. No miracle...no OU.
As far as my research into this heater went, I came across no claims of overunity.
The mere posting of a device on overunity.com does not suggest or imply overunity.
According to the manufacturer, I will be able to heat my house for a fraction of the cost...and without the risk of fire involved with conventionable combustible heating methods.
That, to me is a double plus.
Regards...
That web-site is pretty confusing - though you say that the motor etc. is included in the price, the site specifically states they aren't! There are also no heater specs whatever to be found! Also, hitting 'Testimonials' I was expecting to see customer opinion on the heater, instead, its about the hydrogen thingy. The whole site seems pretty disjointed to me...
** double-post **
Quote from: Cap-Z-ro on August 04, 2008, 06:55:31 AM
As far as my research into this heater went, I came across no claims of overunity.
The mere posting of a device on overunity.com does not suggest or imply overunity.
According to the manufacturer, I will be able to heat my house for a fraction of the cost...and without the risk of fire involved with conventionable combustible heating methods.
That, to me is a double plus.
Regards...
Sorry but if you just want to convert electricity to heat it would be more efficient to just use an electric baseboard heater. I would ask for legitimate test results showing the energy usage/savings over conventional methods.
I actually recall discussing which type of motor to use...someone else may have deduced from the diagram that the motor was included.
My confidence in the concept is based on the design itself...and the guy is also very down to earth.
Should have it up and running in about 3 weeks depending on delivery...I will post the results.
Warmly...
Hey Cap, any updates?
Mark
Hydrosonic Pump anyone? http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,356.0.html
deleted. double post.
@Cap-Z-ro
Hey Cap, any results from this heater yet? Are you heating the whole house with less than 1 Horsepower input?
Inquiring minds want to know... It's getting along towards winter season.
:S:MarkSCoffman
Yes, I too would be very interested in an update on this device. I hope it works as advertised.
Bill
Well...as you all know it I placed my order for a unit late in July...after numerous delays...apparently due to having the metal cut elsewhere, and other excuses.
He and or someone else did the rest of the work on the heater.
I finally received delivery of the heater on September 12th.
Below is my letter advising Mr. Themistokis Liardakis of some minor problems.
Regards...
...
Hi Themis,
The heater arrived yesterday afternoon. I immediately noticed the drum would not turn properly.
It seemed the drum was scuffing on the bottom of the outer cylinderâ€Ã,¦which was evident by the scuff marks when I removed the drum.
I noticed that a â€ËÅ"nickel’ had been inserted into the round hole which housed the ring bearingâ€Ã,¦and where the bottom of rotating drum had been ground in obviously efforts to alleviate the scuffing.
There was a noticeable gap where the two ends of the aluminum ring forming the under part of the lid metâ€Ã,¦an attempt had been made to weld the ends together.
Both ends of the ring bent downward and away from the under part of the lid, to which it was rivetedâ€Ã,¦numerous mis-measured holes in around the circumference of the rings were also apparent.
I took the unit to a local machinist for an assessment.
He determined that reason the drum was striking bottom was due to the fact that the bottom as well as the top plates of the drum were both bowed inward causing the outer wall of the drum to make contact with the bottom of the cylinderâ€Ã,¦instead of the center aspect of the drum resting on the bearing mounted on the bottom of the cylinder as intended.
After adding a bushing to raise the bottom of the drum clear from the bottom of the outer cylinder so that the drum would spin freely on the bearing, he placed the lid on, and noted that the upper aspect of the drum was also scraping against the inside aspect of the ring which forms inner aspect of the lid on one side.
This problem was caused by the fact that both the top and bottom bearings were not properly centered in the bottom of the cylinder or the lid of the unit, causing scraping on the one side and a gap of nearly ÂÃ,½ inch between the drum and opposite side of the cylinder wall of the unit.
He also questioned the reliability of the heater due to the breach in the wall of the hollow drum chamber.
Themis, please contact me and let me know what you wish to do to correct this mistake.
Thanks,
Don
Ouch, sorry to hear that. It seems that you were sent a piece of crap instead of a friction water heater.
I have been tempted to try and make one myself, but the choice of materials, the cost of the machining, etc. allways have put me down. The most annoying part is to find somebody to pierce the holes in the rotor, as they must be evenly spaced and of conical bottom, which seems not easy to do. Other worry is the need for ulra good motor grounding if you don't want to have an unexpected surprise while taking a shower.
I hope you get your money back, or better, they deliver you the good product.
Regards!
You could have spend that money on some donation here to speed something up rather be ripped off and even defrauded on that. You'd think for that price for something so basic they'd even kiss their customers feet afterwards.
There is much more to tell.
Get a load of the scammer's reply to my email, in quotation marks:
Regards...
QuoteHi Don,
Sorry about my slow response. I strained my foot badly and the first 2 days my foot was not happy at all. The actual shipping of the 1H/P ac motor is $59.00 and you should have it by Wednesday.
Please see below answers about the questions. The person you took the unit to, shouldn't ad anything to the drum.
Best Regards
Themistoklis
~ DF MacDonald ~ <nodcam@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi Themis,
The heater arrived yesterday afternoon. I immediately noticed the drum would not turn properly.
QuoteThe drum turns fine Don, You just have to Adjust the cover at proper high so it doesn't contact the inside steel drum.
It seemed the drum was scuffing on the bottom of the outer cylinder which was evident by the scuff marks when I removed the drum.
QuoteMaybe the bottom of the steel drum went hockey because of the vibration during the shipping. The fix is to tie the lower shaft of the drum on a vice and pull out. This will end the scuffing and with the heat [the heat will keep the bottom of the drum expanded permanently] it will never happen again.
I noticed that a nickel had been inserted into the round hole which housed the ring bearing and where the bottom of rotating drum had been ground in obviously efforts to alleviate the scuffing.
QuoteThe nickel is there to support the Bearing. For the time being the bearing do not touches the nickel. After the first run of the Heater the Aluminum cell will expand and the bearing will settle up on the nickel
There was a noticeable gap where the two ends of the aluminum ring forming the under part of the lid met...an attempt had been made to weld the ends together.
QuoteThe gap is normal Don because of the strip's thickness.
Both ends of the ring bent downward and away from the under part of the lid, to which it was riveted...numerous mis-measured holes in around the circumference of the rings were also apparent.
I took the unit to a local machinist for an assessment.
He determined that reason the drum was striking bottom was due to the fact that the bottom as well as the top plates of the drum were both bowed inward causing the outer wall of the drum to make contact with the bottom of the cylinder instead of the center aspect of the drum resting on the bearing mounted on the bottom of the cylinder as intended.
After adding a bushing to raise the bottom of the drum clear from the bottom of the outer cylinder so that the drum would spin freely on the bearing, he placed the lid on, and noted that the upper aspect of the drum was also scraping against the inside aspect of the ring which forms inner aspect of the lid on one side.
This problem was caused by the fact that both the top and bottom bearings were not properly centered in the bottom of the cylinder or the lid of the unit, causing scraping on the one side and a gap of nearly ÂÃ,½ inch between the drum and opposite side of the cylinder wall of the unit.
The upper shaft goes through a special closed bearing [the heat will not dry this bearing].
QuoteThe person you took the heater to should ad nothing on the drum. A simple [vice pull] needed only. The unit is properly centered Don.
He also questioned the reliability of the heater due to the breach in the wall of the hollow drum chamber.
Themis, please contact me and let me know what you wish to do to correct this mistake.
Thanks,
$875 (motor extra) is too much to gamble without seeing the thing working before your eyes.
You made a mistake.
The concept works...else I wouldn't have 'gambled'
I got scammed is all.
I have since met a guy who made a working unit some 30 years ago...who will sell it to me cheap, if he still has it.
Regards...
Cap:
Sorry to hear about this. Tell you what, if this guy does not make good on his product or refund your money, I would report him to every agency that covers this sort of transaction. I would also post the factual story of what happened on every blog or forum that I could find that deals with energy. This will turn out to be a very costly mistake for him. Don't libel him, just report the truth and you will prevail if challenged in court for libel. I really detest folks like this.
Here is a thought, now that you have the unit, I would photo everything about it and take precise measurements and make a drawing. I'll bet your machine shop guy can make you one from scratch for a hell of a lot less, maybe about $200 including materials and labor. So, if you get your money back you might even be money ahead on the deal.
If you paid by credit card, file a complaint and they will instantly take your money out of his account pending investigation. (He has no choice in the matter) If paypal, I would file a complaint there also.
Best of luck on this.
Bill
Thanks Bill...I have already alerted the fraud section of my credit card company, and the Att. Gen. in Missouri.
Next I have to find out how to contact his web server.
I intend to link this thread to his name and that of friction or fuelless heaters through 'tiny url'.
Too bad for all the honest people selling products over the net...these low life scammers ruin it for everybody.
I have also a local machine shop building a better unit...plus I may get one from the older gentleman I mentioned earlier.
Here is my next email to the scam artist:
...
MY ANSWER HIS EXCUSES ARE IN [CAPTIONS]
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 19:22:36 -0700
From: drivingcomfort@udrivesafe2.com
Subject: RE: Heater
To: nodcam@hotmail.com
Hi Don,
LIARdakis === Sorry about my slow response. I strained my foot badly and the first 2 days my foot was not happy at all. The actual shipping of the 1H/P ac motor is $59.00 and you should have it by Wednesday.
LIARdakis === Please see below answers about the questions. The person you took the unit to, shouldn't ad anything to the drum. [ It was known when the unit was shipped that the only way that drum would turn would be to raise it with a "removable" bushing...if the implication is that the machinist damaged the unit.]
LIARdakis === The drum turns fine Don, You just have to Adjust the cover at proper high so it doesn't contact the inside steel drum.
[If the drum turned, as intended, its walls would not have been breached by grinding away at the bottom outer edge to stop it from scraping bottom, as it does.]
It seemed the drum was scuffing on the bottom of the outer cylinder which was evident by the scuff marks when I removed the drum.
LIARdakis === Maybe the bottom of the steel drum went hockey because of the vibration during the shipping.
[ The only evidence of damage to the drum was from grinding through its wall. ]
LIARdakis === The fix is to tie the lower shaft of the drum on a vice and pull out. This will end the scuffing and with the heat (the heat will keep the bottom of the drum expanded permanently) it will never happen again.
[ As stated in my letter both ends are bowed inward...making what you are suggesting impossible. ]
I noticed that a nickel had been inserted into the round hole which housed the ring bearing and where the bottom of rotating drum had been ground in obviously efforts to alleviate the scuffing.
LIARdakis === The nickel is there to support the Bearing. For the time being the bearing do not touches the nickel. After the first run of the Heater the Aluminum cell will expand and the bearing will settle up on the nickel
There was a noticeable gap where the two ends of the aluminum ring forming the under part of the lid met, where an attempt had been made to weld the ends together.
LIARdakis === The gap is normal Don because of the strip's thickness.
[ If the gap was 'normal' an attempt would not have been made to 'hot' weld the aluminum...2 machinist's said it should have been 'cold' welded. ]
Both ends of the ring bent downward and away from the under part of the lid, to which it was riveted numerous mis-measured holes in around the circumference of the rings were also apparent.
I took the unit to a local machinist for an assessment.
He determined that reason the drum was striking bottom was due to the fact that the bottom as well as the top plates of the drum were both bowed inward causing the outer wall of the drum to make contact with the bottom of the cylinder instead of the center aspect of the drum resting on the bearing mounted on the bottom of the cylinder as intended.
After adding a bushing to raise the bottom of the drum clear from the bottom of the outer cylinder so that the drum would spin freely on the bearing, he placed the lid on, and noted that the upper aspect of the drum was also scraping against the inside aspect of the ring which forms inner aspect of the lid on one side.
This problem was caused by the fact that both the top and bottom bearings were not properly centered in the bottom of the cylinder or the lid of the unit, causing scraping on the one side and a gap of nearly 1/2 inch between the drum and opposite side of the cylinder wall of the unit.
LIARdakis===The upper shaft goes through a special closed bearing [the heat will not dry this bearing]. The person you took the heater to should ad nothing on the drum. A simple [vice pull] needed only.
LIARdakis===The unit is properly centered Don.
[The unit is not properly centered...he measured it in front of me. ]
He [the machinist] also questioned the reliability of the heater due to the breach in the wall of the hollow drum chamber.
[What about the breach in the drum chamber ??? The unit is ruined because of that alone.]
...
Capt Z sorry to hear that you got scammed .
The guy sounds like a real jerk .
I have been wondering about trying to make a small version of these heaters .
I was wondering about using disks in place of the inner drum .
I was thinking of using disks from hard drives if I can find a source of old drives .
I have a couple of them but I would need dozens .
not sure what I would use for the outer housing . I don't have much of a shop so I can't machine anything to size . I have to find something that fits .
You may have seen this already
This site has alot of stuff .......most of it pretty general
http://free-energy-info.co.uk/PJKbook.pdf
Pages 706 to 709 has several different designs .
I like the idea of a tube near the outer edge of the disks or drum .....going to a radiator.
gary
Threaten to turn him in for knowingly defacing government property if he does not refund you.
Admittance of the nickle being there is admittance to knowingly defacing money which is a federal crime.
Case and point match the thing does not work either so threaten to turn him both for fraud and defacing federal property.
His lawyer would successfully argue that the Federal Reserve is owned by corporate bankers and therefore their money is not government property. :)
@gary,
The disc method has been tried successfully.
For some reason my server is denied access to you link...can you paste the info here ?
The term jerk doesn't really do this guy justice...there's more, read on...
...
RE: Heaterâ€
From: Themistoklis Liardakis (drivingcomfort@udrivesafe2.com)
Sent: September 15, 2008 11:24:11 PM
Hi Don,
The fix is to tie the lower shaft of the drum on a vice and pull out. This will end the scuffing and with the heat (the heat will keep the bottom of the drum expanded permanently) it will never happen again.
ME... [ As stated in my letter, both ends are bowed inward...making what you are suggesting impossible. ]
LIARdakis === It's the normal fix to do. Pulling the lower end of the drum with the help of a vice solves all the problems. The steel drum's lower end went inward because of the vibration. The top end of the steel drum is ok to be inward.
Best Regards
Themistoklis
Quote from: Cap-Z-ro on September 21, 2008, 12:40:58 AM
@gary,
The disc method has been tried successfully.
For some reason my server is denied access to you link...can you paste the info here ?
The link doesn't work for me now either.
I tried posting it here but it is to big .
I can't seem to cut and paste sections of it
I will look at it again tomorow
gary
Cap:
Just for your information:
From the U.S. Treasury:
"..Whoever mutilates, cuts, disfigures, perforates, unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking association, Federal Reserve Bank, or Federal Reserve System, with intent to render such item(s) unfit to be reissued, shall be fined not more than $100 or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.
Defacement of currency in such a way that it is made unfit for circulation comes under the jurisdiction of the United States Secret Service...."
The fine is not much, but 6 months in jail is not too much fun for this guy to think about.
Just so you know.
Bill
The nickel was old and dirty, but otherwise undamaged.
Probably had it in his pocket for a a few years. :D
Actually a quarter would have been a better fit...but you know how that goes.
Regards...
...
More LIARdakis bizarreness...
Themis,
By maintaining this ridiculous position you are making yourself look like a scam artist.
According to 2 machinists, myself, and anyone else with eyes...that heater is a piece of garbage and never should have been shipped.
Bottom line I want a refund.
Don
...
LIARdakis reply ===
RE: Heaterâ€
From: Themistoklis Liardakis (drivingcomfort@udrivesafe2.com)
Sent: September 16, 2008 7:55:06 PM
To: ~ DF MacDonald ~ (nodcam@hotmail.com)
I don't know where you buy machinists from. Anyway you shouldn't bring any changes to the Heater Don.
You voided any guarantee the time you took the heater to your machinists and added bushings to it. The fix is simple and very effective. you brought wrong changes and you informed me about it after the negative results.
Themistoklis
Hello Cap-Zero:
Another good way to make this guy think it better before scamming someone else is to paste your account in every site on alternative/supressed technologies. I bet that Serling D. Allan would post it right away in peswiki network, and also you could send zeropointnews and other places alike.
You don't need to do anything else than telling your history as is, and he won't be able to sue you for defamation if you don't employ any demeaning terms in the account.
Regards.
Thanks C-one...excellent suggestions...would calling him a scammer, be too derogatory a term :) ?
Regards...
Quote from: resonanceman on September 20, 2008, 09:23:21 PM
You may have seen this already
This site has alot of stuff .......most of it pretty general
http://free-energy-info.co.uk/PJKbook.pdf
Pages 706 to 709 has several different designs .
I like the idea of a tube near the outer edge of the disks or drum .....going to a radiator.
Capt Z
Try the link today.
Yesterday it didn't work for me
It seems fine now .
gary
Quote from: ChileanOne on September 20, 2008, 01:28:18 AM
Ouch, sorry to hear that. It seems that you were sent a piece of crap instead of a friction water heater.
I have been tempted to try and make one myself, but the choice of materials, the cost of the machining, etc. allways have put me down. The most annoying part is to find somebody to pierce the holes in the rotor, as they must be evenly spaced and of conical bottom, which seems not easy to do. Other worry is the need for ulra good motor grounding if you don't want to have an unexpected surprise while taking a shower.
I hope you get your money back, or better, they deliver you the good product.
Regards!
Possibly you can make the "hole" in outside (stator) , very easy if using an "steal layer" with punched holes..
The rotor will than have this "lines" for the compessing/dekompressing the water rapidly. (In this way
that is in the "origine" device in the stator . Possibly it is more simply to milling
PESE
.
Thanks for the link Gary...some good stuff there.
There used to me a lot more info about the heaters on the net, but no longer for some reason.
And here is the next installment of 'As The LIARdakis Squirms:
Themis,
The added bushing, on which you are attempting to base voiding your money back guarantee on; is as removable as the nickel you placed there, in a futile effort to do what the bushing did...and that is, allow the inner rotating drum to turn without contacting the bottom its outer container.
The bushing has been removed, the nickel has been put back, and the unit is in the same state it was delivered in, unusable...and will be ready to be picked up when you notify me by email that you have made arrangements to retrieve it.
Although I doubt that even you would want it, because you knew it was a worthless item when you shipped it.
And obviously, you do not wish to provide an explanation for grinding through the walls of the "sealed" rotating drum...essentially rendering the heater useless.
And I do not want another email suggesting that somehow UPS was responsible for that damage also.
What I expect is a full refund of my money to be replaced on my credit card within 2 days.
The fraud department of my credit card company will be contacting you if you do not comply.
I will also be contacting your local police in that regard...along with you internet server.
You are going be held responsible for this fraud you perpetrated, in one way or in another.
You can't treat people like this and expect that nothing will come of it.
It would be a lot easier or all concerned, your reputation in particular, if you just end the matter in the manner suggested.
DMD
...
Don,
I never said that, the UPS or you have smashed the unit.
Again the nickel is there as an added support for the bearing
and protection of the Aluminum base. If you want to return the unit
it's your call,
Themistoklis
Quote from: Cap-Z-ro on September 21, 2008, 07:25:20 PM
Don,
I never said that, the UPS or you have smashed the unit.
Again the nickel is there as an added support for the bearing
and protection of the Aluminum base. If you want to return the unit
it's your call,
Themistoklis
This guy is unveliable! He doesn't skip a beat to confirm that he used a nickel as a part of a machine, and has the nerve to say that is an esential part of the machine!!! WHat a scoundrel!
Quote from: ChileanOne on September 22, 2008, 12:03:37 AM
This guy is unveliable! He doesn't skip a beat to confirm that he used a nickel as a part of a machine, and has the nerve to say that is an esential part of the machine!!! WHat a scoundrel!
Just in case, that the nickel is used as a spacer, than the nickel is part of the heater.
@Cap-Z-ro
Now we are in a big discussion about the heater.
Could you be so nice and put some pics of the device on the table?
So, than we can emagin how it was manufactured.
Thanks for sharing.
helmut
@ C-One and Helmut,
Maybe he's saying that if he gets his nickel back, he will refund my money...or maybe not. :)
Between what I gleaned from the net, and after seeing the LIARdakis mess, I know how to, and how not to build one.
When and if I have one up and running successfully I will post the results, measurements, particulars, and pic's.
Meanwhile here is more of the LIARdakis fraud discourse.
Regards...
...
Sent to LIARdakis:
You have been advised to pick up the heater, and to replace the funds you have fraudulently obtained from my account.
Your email is confirmation that you have now refused to do as requested.
Now you shall have to deal with he appropriate authorities and answer to charges of international fraud...and that is 'your call'.
DMD
...
RE: Heaterâ€
From: Themistoklis Liardakis (drivingcomfort@udrivesafe2.com)
Sent: September 18, 2008 5:43:18 PM
To: (nodcam@hotmail.com)
You received the Heater.
YOU BROUGHT CHANGES TO IT.
OUR POLICY STATES AT OUR WEB SITE THAT,
All of our products are sold with a satisfaction guarantee. If you are dissatisfied for any reason, return the product(s), in resaleable condition, within 60 days of receipt of the product(s) for a full refund of the product(s) purchase price. Shipping and handling fees are non-refundable.
Themistoklis
UPDATE
My new heater is completed...I will soon be done with installation preparations and will post photos of everything when things are finished.
I have one concern/problem though.
The rotating inner drum, although smooth in operation, is slow to start turning.
I am concerned my 1 HP motor will fail due to the strain on the start up sooner or later.
The motor has a capacitor start..
Is there something that will temporarily disconnect the motor before any damage occurs, and restart it again from the capacitor in a cycle, until the drum attains enough speed where the motor can then carry the load?
Or is there any such thing as what I described...and would it serve the purpose ?
I have a spring loaded clutch I am/can use also.
Regards...
Cap:
Did you ever get your money back from that crook? If you did, I must have missed that post. I hope you do.
To my limited knowledge, all motors are designed to draw much higher power during "start-up" and this should be designed in to you motor/capacitor when it was built. Unless it is taking more than say 30 seconds to get up to speed, I don't think it is anything to worry about. But, as I said, I have limited knowledge in this area so someone else that really knows can respond.
Best of luck with the new unit.
Bill
Quote from: Cap-Z-ro on October 11, 2008, 12:23:22 PM
UPDATE
My new heater is completed...I will soon be done with installation preparations and will post photos of everything when things are finished.
I have one concern/problem though.
The rotating inner drum, although smooth in operation, is slow to start turning.
I am concerned my 1 HP motor will fail due to the strain on the start up sooner or later.
The motor has a capacitor start..
Is there something that will temporarily disconnect the motor before any damage occurs, and restart it again from the capacitor in a cycle, until the drum attains enough speed where the motor can then carry the load?
Or is there any such thing as what I described...and would it serve the purpose ?
I have a spring loaded clutch I am/can use also.
Regards...
I am assuming that you are expecting the viscosity of the oil to go down when it is hot .
Is it possible to remove some oil before start up and slowly return it once it is up to temp?
Or .........maybe you just have to much oil in the unit .
gary
Thanks Bill and Gary.
I'm still waiting on the letter from my machinest...between the 2 of us we've been stricken with a local stomach virus...so nothing to report there.
I am unsure the drum can reach speed in under 30 secs...and I don't have oil in it yet...not sure how it will effect rotation.
Will the buoyancy of the drum counter the viscosity drag...I do not know.
Hopefully someone here will have some helpful suggestions.
Regards...
Quote from: Cap-Z-ro on October 11, 2008, 04:05:14 PM
Thanks Bill and Gary.
I'm still waiting on the letter from my machinest...between the 2 of us we've been stricken with a local stomach virus...so nothing to report there.
I am unsure the drum can reach speed in under 30 secs...and I don't have oil in it yet...not sure how it will effect rotation.
Will the buoyancy of the drum counter the viscosity drag...I do not know.
Hopefully someone here will have some helpful suggestions.
Regards...
Hello Cap-Z-ro
If i was on your place, i would try as follows.
Last year i buyed a new power grinder.
You know, this dangerous tools that work with about 12 to 18tousend RPM.
The old one was about 2000 watt and sometimes the fuse was cut the line during the start.
But the new one workes different.There was a new circuit build in, that startet the grinder
realy slowly to the maximum speed.
So the idea is : Buy one of this grinders and extract the small board
for the smooth start, to employ it with the heater motor .
I hope,that my idea is of use for you.
Keep us informed and recover soon from the stomach virus.
helmut
Quote from: Cap-Z-ro on October 11, 2008, 04:05:14 PM
Thanks Bill and Gary.
I'm still waiting on the letter from my machinest...between the 2 of us we've been stricken with a local stomach virus...so nothing to report there.
I am unsure the drum can reach speed in under 30 secs...and I don't have oil in it yet...not sure how it will effect rotation.
Will the buoyancy of the drum counter the viscosity drag...I do not know.
Hopefully someone here will have some helpful suggestions.
Regards...
Cap-Z-ro
Lets see .....it spins freely but a 1 HP motor won't spin it up to speed in under 30 seconds ?( with out oil in it )
How big is this thing?
gary
Edit
A soft start might help but if it isn't getting up to speed in 30 seconds without oil I question if it will even be able to reach working speed with oil .
That circuit sounds like exactly what I need Helmut...is there somev place where I can buy the board without buying another motor ?
Not sure what a 'soft start' is Gary...it sounds like it might work also.
The drum spins easily once started, so I have no doubt it will reach speed.
Thanks all.
Regards...
Quote from: Cap-Z-ro on October 11, 2008, 07:53:31 PM
That circuit sounds like exactly what I need Helmut...is there somev place where I can buy the board without buying another motor ?
Not sure what a 'soft start' is Gary...it sounds like it might work also.
The drum spins easily once started, so I have no doubt it will reach speed.
Thanks all.
Regards...
Capt Z
A soft start is when the motor speed is ramped up over a period of time. It is a common feature in motor speed controllers.
Here is a link for some industrial units .
http://www.driveswarehouse.com/Drives/AC+Drives/Micro+VFD.htm
If you want to make your own look up PWM ( pulse width modulation )
Or maybe a PMW for a HHO generator could be modified
gary
Those inverter drives are a little hazardous to use Gary...what is 'pulse with modulation' ?
It sounds much less complicated.
Regards...
Quote from: Cap-Z-ro on October 11, 2008, 10:02:10 PM
Those inverter drives are a little hazardous to use Gary...what is 'pulse with modulation' ?
It sounds much less complicated.
Regards...
I am not sure how much modification a PWM would require to run an AC motor .
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4218.msg86856
gary
Quote from: Cap-Z-ro on October 11, 2008, 07:53:31 PM
That circuit sounds like exactly what I need Helmut...is there somev place where I can buy the board without buying another motor ?
Not sure what a 'soft start' is Gary...it sounds like it might work also.
The drum spins easily once started, so I have no doubt it will reach speed.
Thanks all.
Regards...
The main purpose on the idea was, to save you some money.
I guess, that the smooth start circuit will (as a single item) cost more
than the Grinder mashine as complete unit.
Perhaps you know one electrician and ask him to dismount the
grinder to get the circuit out.
If you can not find any other help i will dimount my own grinder and
send some pics of it to you.
helmut
Can't find any descriptors on those links Gary...so I do not know if a pwm would work.
What is the cost of the grinder you refer to Helmut...I don't want to have you go through the trouble to dismantle your grinder.
Something will turn up...there must be some simple way of doing it.
Regards...
Quote from: Cap-Z-ro on October 12, 2008, 10:06:00 AM
Can't find any descriptors on those links Gary...so I do not know if a pwm would work.
Something will turn up...there must be some simple way of doing it.
Regards...
Capt Z
I am assuming that your motor is a normal AC induction motor . You really didn't way .
You did say it was 1 Hp.
I didn't spend much time lookiing for a PWM because there would be complications if you wanted to run an AC motor with one. I am not sure how to get it done.
If it is an AC motor check the power required . You might be able to find something like a dimmer switch that is big enough .
gary
The motor is 230/115 volts - 6.5 amp AC Gary.
I would need some type of automatic programmable dimmer device...if there is such a thing.
Regards..
Quote from: Cap-Z-ro on October 12, 2008, 11:32:07 AM
The motor is 230/115 volts - 6.5 amp AC Gary.
I would need some type of automatic programmable dimmer device...if there is such a thing.
Regards..
Capt Z
Unfortunantly they are not cheap and you said on reply 49 that they are hazardous.
Most dimmer switches that I have seen are 600 W
If your motor is 115V at 6.5 A that is 747.5 W there may be a simple dimmer switch out there that can handle the load .
It would not be programable . but it might get the job done.
gary
Hey, how about wiring up a programmable house thermostat to it? You can use the fan speeds low, medium, high and program that to start slow and work to fast?
Mark
I still don't understand the purpose of this heater? How is it any more efficient than a standard electric baseboard heater?
I don't have the operational knowledge of how compatible a programmable thermostat would be witha single phase ac motor Mark.
Thanks for the suggestion...at least I can ask somebody if it would do the job.
Noone...read the links at the start of the thread...the diagram is pretty self explanatory.
Regards...
Hi Cap-Z-ro,
Where are the diagrams? I went to the link and all I saw were a bunch of pictures.
Bottom line for me is that there is no way you are going to heat your 'average size house' for $5- $10 a month with this device.
Is there any test data to show that this is true?
There are many sites showing diagrams...if I can heat my place for under $100.00 it will be worthwhile...test results forthcoming.
I think its going to take Gustav Pese to resolve my torque problem...he's the man to go to for problem resolution.
Regards...
Quote from: Cap-Z-ro on October 12, 2008, 10:07:08 PM
There are many sites showing diagrams...if I can heat my place for under $100.00 it will be worthwhile...test results forthcoming.
I think its going to take Gustav Pese to resolve my torque problem...he's the man to go to for problem resolution.
Regards...
Hi
You might look after this circuit. And this cost here 53.34Euros
Hi Alan
The next pic show another circuit and a grinder just to show what i mean with grinder.
There are many ways to help you out with some information.
Gustav Pese might be able to sell one device to you.
Quote from: Cap-Z-ro on October 12, 2008, 10:07:08 PM
There are many sites showing diagrams...if I can heat my place for under $100.00 it will be worthwhile...test results forthcoming.
I think its going to take Gustav Pese to resolve my torque problem...he's the man to go to for problem resolution.
Regards...
OK, I'll wait to see your test results. However, as I mentioned in an earlier post, I've personally seen one of these running before. It will definitely generate heat but unless you are getting your electricity for free :) will be more costly to run than a standard $49 baseboard electric unit simply because of the efficiency factor.
Regards,
Charlie
@Cap, I was thinking of using the thermostat to control a relay and the relay would control the electric motor. I dont think the termostat would be able to control the electric motor directly, but should be able to control a relay to do the job.
Mark
I already have a relay/thermostat arrangement Mark...my problem is danger of motor burn out from repeatedly getting the heavy drum to start spinning.
Someone suggested using something called a 'frequency drive'.
Aniother person mentioned a new cone shaped pully, which starts turning on a larger pully and migraates upward to a smaller one as rotation increases...but he didn't know what it was called or where to get one.
Regards...
I just noticed your last post noone - - in it you said...
"However, as I mentioned in an earlier post, I've personally seen one of these running before. It will definitely generate heat but unless you are getting your electricity for free will be more costly to run than a standard $49 baseboard electric unit simply because of the efficiency factor"
You made no mention of any knowledge of the heater.
What you actually said was...
"I still don't understand the purpose of this heater?"
And that was even after you saw pictures of the heater, as indicated by your earlier posting...
"Where are the diagrams? I went to the link and all I saw were a bunch of pictures."
If you had actually seen one of those easily recognizable heaters working as you say, then you would not have claimed ignorance of the heater after seeing the pictures.
So whats up with all that...too much free time?
Regards...
Quote from: Cap-Z-ro on October 13, 2008, 05:43:32 PM
Aniother person mentioned a new cone shaped pully, which starts turning on a larger pully and migraates upward to a smaller one as rotation increases...but he didn't know what it was called or where to get one.
http://www.hi-lo.com/pages/products12-99.html
gary
Quote from: Cap-Z-ro on October 13, 2008, 06:21:30 PM
I just noticed your last post noone - - in it you said...
"However, as I mentioned in an earlier post, I've personally seen one of these running before. It will definitely generate heat but unless you are getting your electricity for free will be more costly to run than a standard $49 baseboard electric unit simply because of the efficiency factor"
You made no mention of any knowledge of the heater.
What you actually said was...
"I still don't understand the purpose of this heater?"
And that was even after you saw pictures of the heater, as indicated by your earlier posting...
"Where are the diagrams? I went to the link and all I saw were a bunch of pictures."
If you had actually seen one of those easily recognizable heaters working as you say, then you would not have claimed ignorance of the heater after seeing the pictures.
So whats up with all that...too much free time?
Regards...
See reply #7.
When I said, "I still don't understand the purpose of the heater.", I simply meant as something worth pursuing as an alternative energy source. Because I said right after, "How is it any more efficient than a standard baseboard electric heater?" The answer....it isn't. Unless there is some magic going on inside this one, it should actually cost you
more money to run because of the mechanical losses.
So again, I'll wait for your test data.
Quote from: noonespecial on October 13, 2008, 07:51:38 PM
See reply #7.
it should actually cost you more money to run because of the mechanical losses.
UUUMMMMmmmmm
The whole reason for building this kind of heater is mechanical losses .
The concept is that the mechnancal losses of the moving oil will generate heat very efficiently .
It is difficult to get rid of mechanical losses .......why not use them for your benifit ?
gary
Quote from: resonanceman on October 13, 2008, 08:29:14 PM
UUUMMMMmmmmm
The whole reason for building this kind of heater is mechanical losses .
The concept is that the mechnancal losses of the moving oil will generate heat very efficiently .
It is difficult to get rid of mechanical losses .......why not use them for your benifit ?
gary
At the risk of sounding like a broken record.....:) How is it that mechanical losses of moving oil will generate heat very efficiently?
Electric heat, while pricey, is 99.99% efficient. Taking an electric source and adding a mechanical transfer mechanism will only make the efficiency go down, right?
"http://www.hi-lo.com/pages/products12-99.html"
Thanks for all your help gary...it appears those pulleys are designed for belt life and grip.
Regards...
Quote from: Cap-Z-ro on October 13, 2008, 09:25:48 PM
"http://www.hi-lo.com/pages/products12-99.html"
Thanks for all your help gary...it appears those pulleys are designed for belt life and grip.
Regards...
I didn't check the prices ..... I am pretty sure that they won't be cheap .
But they are built for industrial use .
With one of those you can dial in any speed you want in a fairly wide range.
gary
Quote from: noonespecial on October 13, 2008, 08:42:46 PM
Electric heat, while pricey, is 99.99% efficient.
Electric resistance heat is the benchmark that other ways if creating heat are measured by .
That doesn't mean that there are not more efficient ways of creating heat .
Quote
Taking an electric source and adding a mechanical transfer mechanism will only make the efficiency go down, right?
That is what big energy wants you to think
Do you believe everything you read in a text book?
OU will be found in exploiting the quirks of processes .
This heat created by turbulence looks like a really nice quirk .
gary
Edit
In almost all cases your text books will tell you how to work around the quirks rather than how to exploit them.
I'm pretty sure those pulleys are not able to give me the low speed torque and high rpm's at the same time gary.
Also, I think they are only rated for 1750 rpm's.
I hope I don't end up having to hook it up to my exercise bike.
Regards...
@Cap,
From what I can remember, those type of pulley systems were or are used in snowmobiles. Maybe you can find some old snowmobiles at a junkyard or something and get them cheap. They would easily hold up to your needs.
Mark
Quote from: Mark69 on October 14, 2008, 12:47:35 AM
@Cap,
From what I can remember, those type of pulley systems were or are used in snowmobiles. Maybe you can find some old snowmobiles at a junkyard or something and get them cheap. They would easily hold up to your needs.
Mark
you are correct mark, they are usually referred to as CVT's or continuously variable transmissions. they hold up on the business end of 80 to 120+hp motors. '70's sleds with the old "slide rail" type track setup should be cheap and usable. here is a link to workings http://www.gates.com/brochure.cfm?brochure=1033&location_id=542
Hi all,
I had posted this info allready a few years back, but its maybe more interesting now. In 1991 there was a company in germany who has build whole house heating/warm water system using hydraulic oil, a hydraulic pump, a 2 to 4 valve manyfold and a submergeble 2 KW motor.
I have seen this in action and it worked perfectly. what they did they had a about 300 gallon fiberglass drum for water reservoir inside was a copper pipe spiral which was connected with a danfoss pump to another copper spiral in, I believe it was about 20 gallon drum filled with hydraulic oil, this was the water sircuit and which had also one spiral which was directly connected to the hydraulic oil out put. Inside this spirals was submerged a direckt driven hydraulic pump with a 2 to 4 valve manyfold which had verry small orifice as outlet which created the verry high temperature and was used to provide the whole house heating source and warm water.
I have to look for the brochure in my ( not so clear sorted ) archive, maybe I find it then I could scann it and poste it.
I thoughd it is another interesting version of conversion mechanical energie to high temperature.
greetings
walt
Quote from: resonanceman on October 13, 2008, 10:22:03 PM
Electric resistance heat is the benchmark that other ways if creating heat are measured by .
That doesn't mean that there are not more efficient ways of creating heat .
That is what big energy wants you to think
Do you believe everything you read in a text book?
OU will be found in exploiting the quirks of processes .
This heat created by turbulence looks like a really nice quirk .
gary
Edit
In almost all cases your text books will tell you how to work around the quirks rather than how to exploit them.
Hi Gary,
Please go back and read reply #8. My only point in this whole discussion is not that there isn't more efficient ways to create heat, its with the idea that this device, which is clearly
not OU will somehow cost less to operate than a common baseboard electric heater. Cap-Z-ro acknowledges this fact in his reply. That is why I am confused as to why anyone would spend this kind of money on a less efficient device.
Quote from: noonespecial on October 14, 2008, 09:12:51 AM
Hi Gary,
Please go back and read reply #8. My only point in this whole discussion is not that there isn't more efficient ways to create heat, its with the idea that this device, which is clearly not OU will somehow cost less to operate than a common baseboard electric heater. Cap-Z-ro acknowledges this fact in his reply. That is why I am confused as to why anyone would spend this kind of money on a less efficient device.
reply8
Quote
As far as my research into this heater went, I came across no claims of overunity.
The mere posting of a device on overunity.com does not suggest or imply overunity.
According to the manufacturer, I will be able to heat my house for a fraction of the cost...and without the risk of fire involved with conventionable combustible heating methods.
That, to me is a double plus.
This sounds clear enough to me .
gary
The thing is, 1HP or about 760Watts total is a very low number. Small space
heaters run at about 1500Watts, or nearly twice as much input power and are
implicitly 100% efficient. Friction heat is probably almost totally latent heat.
While nichrome based electrical heaters probably produce some IR radiant
heat. So if he creates any usable heating in multiple rooms, at all with 1HP,
it will be somewhat suprising.
:S:MarkSCoffman
Anybody know of a manufacturer of black chrome vertical window blind replacement slats with short focus fresnel strips running the frontal length of each slat, with optional after market universal sun tracking motor?
It was worth a shot.
Looks like I'm gonna have to make'em myself.
Peace,
TS
In response to a question on another thread...
" @Cap
what happend to the friction heater?
any news?
helmut "
@ helmut and all...I found out the long hard expensive way that this unit will not work unless the outer and inner drum are accurately made.
And in order to accomplish that the drums must be 'spun' to ensure the drums will be true and round for stable rotation @ 35000 RPM's.
I am not sure when my finances will allow me to try that method.
Regards...
@ Cap:
Did you ever get your money back from that crook? If you need help finding him, let me know.
Bill
No I didn't Bill...with the machinist I took the unit to, taking so long providing a written assessment, and with life's other rabbit holes, I didn't follow up.
I am now wiser but poorer.
I still still plan to explore this technology as time and finances allow.
Regards...
Cap:
I don't remember if you are in the US or Canada? If in the US, most states have a statute of limitations on fraud which should be at least 2 years. (It varies state to state.) Of course, if you hire an attorney (or barrister?) it will cost more than you lost on the deal. I just hate to see frauds like this get away with it. I understand about being wiser though. A financial guy I listen to here on the radio (Dave Ramsey) calls this "Stupid Tax", and I too have paid my fair share over the years. But, I have also learned a lot as well.
It would cost a lot to machine something that large that is made round and true to precision tolerances but, you might look around and find something someone else has already paid to be made that way. I can't think of anything off the top of my head, but I'll bet there is a canister or case made for another purpose that might fit your needs that might be cheap to acquire through salvage or surplus or recycling places.
A quick example would be a discarded lawn mower. (I know this won't work for your needs but it is an example) If someone wanted to have a round, precision machined aluminum cylinder made, it would cost a lot to do. A one cylinder lawn mower already has this and folks throw them out every day. Just something to think about. Take care.
Bill
I'm a Canuklehead Bill.
"Stupid tax"...guffaws. :)
Spinning metal is the way to go for accuracy...I'm not sure what size of aluminum canister are on the lawnmowers you speak of, but it would need to be about 24 inches wide X 27 inches high.
Regards...
@Cap-Z-ro
Thanks for the update. I am sorry, that it is a expensive experience for you.
I hope one day it will pay out for you. And in addition to that, we all listeners have learned via your report.
Many thanks for that too.
@Bill
I like the way like Bill is heating his home with lamps.
So i was searching after similar Lamps here in Germany. But there are not easy to find.
But i do not look after a oil lamp.
Because oil is expensive as Lamp oil or petroleum. It would be usefull to find a lamp,that workes with oil from plants.This one can buy cheep from a good equipped farmer.This kind ob oil needs mor oxygene to burn propperly.
As a matter to be developed, is a process , to start this Lamps , the electric way. Because,then it might be possible to start the lamps via a timer .
It is not overunity, but very usefull .
helmut
Quotewill be true and round for stable rotation @ 35000 RPM's.
Is this a typing error? I assume you mean 3'500 RPM and not 35'000 RPM.
Otherwise you could immediately forget your project to ever turn such a large thing as you mean at 35'000RPM...Believe me...
Sure this would theoretically be possible, but surely only with extremely professional equipment and undreamable expensive...Ask some Jet-Engine producers...
I don't know why just spinning one container in the other should produce OU. For as has been said before, otherwise it would make no sense to use this method of heating, one would just rather heat the water directly by placing wires in the water...just like air humidifiers do...100% efficient...Or even use a conventional Heat pump to get higher efficiences.
The reason, why I think this doesn't do anything is, as this method of the two containers spinning with an oil-film in between is widely used in industry: It's called a Hydrodynamic Bearing! Also all of the machines we produce have them. Also newer Hard-Disks use them, ...
And they never showed any OU effects...
But if you would construct the heater rather like Schauberger intended, e.g. with the spiral in it, etc. like someone here mentioned, this would be something else.
Or if it is made like the hydrosonic pumps of Hydro Dynamic Inc www.hydrodynamics.com (http://www.hydrodynamics.com).
Sure just my 2 cent
Yes that was a typo Shanti...an easy mistake for someone who is innumerate.
The RPM's are 3,500 and not 35,000.
Unless...I am building an antigravity machine, and mistakenly let the cat out the bag ? :)
I don't know why people mistakenly have the impression that this unit is supposed to be over unity.
The unit was never promoted as over unity or a free energy producer.
It is simply a fuelless heater...nothing more that an alternate heat source.
Hopefully the misconception is cleared up.
Regards...
does anyone here know the angle at the bottom of the holes it was not mentioned in the string as a standard drill bit can be modified to produce alot of different angles i have the equipment to do this and is it that important.
next how deep do the holes need to be and how large in diameter do they need to be do smaller holes work better or larger holes .
i am very interested in this information what rpm to size ratio works best for what horse power drive .
does anyone have any of this information .
alaska is a high energy cost state so need all the help one can get this may be better than heat pumps .
have read that temperatures of 450F are possible this must be done useing some type of oil but would think it would be good for heat transfer unit will build this to test either way so wuold appreciate any help you can give to these points.
will post what i find allong the way in exchange.
Hey nueview,
By the questions you are asking it appears you have this unit confused with a water cavitatation unit, which also has an inner rotating drum, which turns water into steam.
This unit uses transmission oil and the rotating drum is smooth as opposed to the drum of the water cavitator which has angular holes drilled into it.
It is said however that other than oil, water can be used in this unit also.
Regards...
i have built several smooth cyclinder units with transmission fluid they heat ok but do better when air is injected into the system.
transmission fluid is water soluable so really don't see the point it is not real heat conductive as is water though other fluids are it seems that in these units heat is made at the cavitation bubble and if the fluid absorbes the heat it is able to be moved and used if it doesn't then you just get a hot element not really what i am after convection plays a big part in these units and have tryed many in an attempt to do better a double jacket on one unit did much better as it did allow heat transfer to the water really looking for some fluid that appears to be somewhat electrically conductive as a diode one way and conductive thermolly the other.
will attempt to wind answer in other group as was not aware this group was for those working on smooth cylinders as a passing thought you might try electro static plates as electrets around your rotor.
Hi Cap-Z-ro
I have just read this thread from the beginning looking to understand what it was you actually ordered. Im not sure if it is because the links are old or if it is my 'end' but i can't grasp how exactly this heater is supposed to work. Could you explain or post a link to a basic design please ?
Thanks
jwk
@jwk:
The design is based on the Frenette heater:
http://www.rexresearch.com/frenette/frenette.htm
From what I've read, the basic design would be simply a smooth cylindrical "pot" set inside and exactly centered (concentric) within a similar and slightly bigger container. The two containers are separated by a very small gap which is filled with an oil. The inner container is rotated by an electical motor at high speed.
The claim is that more heat energy is produced by this device than can be accounted for by the electrical input.
A theory put forth on why this might work is that untapped energy is being drawn out by cavitation action, submersed microbubble bursts.
I have not seen any information that this type of device actually lives up to the claim. I remember reading at least one study on the Internet that showed this device really did not work as claimed.