This is another Suppressed technology simillar to SEG and IGV, but other inventor.
http://www.projectcamelot.org/ralph_ring.html
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.projectcamelot.org%2Futron_sm.gif&hash=28e9316ce19e12b399e6b0ac34b7d514b11b5747)
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.projectcamelot.org%2Fotis_carr_sm.jpg&hash=ac5810068bfa6c41d2d8bda99aa6c1dc3799391f)
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkeelynet.com%2Fgravity%2Fcarr3.jpg&hash=d756526f1248c3863f1ab0aee2007c57ba50b97b)
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkeelynet.com%2Fgravity%2Fgyroup.gif&hash=b3fcd597bbda32b65c4478b58777b54e7612086c)
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.soulsofdistortion.nl%2Fimages%2FOtis%2520T%2520Carr_0011.jpg&hash=e3f0b38c3e69da9b8ff28349c318934034ca9afb)
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.soulsofdistortion.nl%2Fimages%2FOtis%2520T%2520Carr_010.jpg&hash=a462382b0dfd15ac9253757a1ff60c148104f015)
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.projectcamelot.net%2Fdesign.gif&hash=6e5395082bfce5de5189b91cf2362c1d3ffbc0a9)
Source (http://images.google.bg/imgres?imgurl=http://www.soulsofdistortion.nl/images/Otis%2520T%2520Carr_0011.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.soulsofdistortion.nl/Otis%2520T%2520Carr.html&h=494&w=696&sz=65&hl=bg&start=8&um=1&usg=__8OxtPNu7GY8W3yZyI0ntPv9dG4c=&tbnid=rLs35T1X9rtRsM:&tbnh=99&tbnw=139&prev=/images%3Fq%3DOtis%2BCarr%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dbg%26sa%3DN)
Howdy Reformator,
Otis T. Carr's flying machine is basically an American copy of a German Vril Levitator. Mr. Carr was privy to the plethora of information stolen from Germany at the end of World War 2 so he managed to get a lot of Schauberger's notes and Schumann's notes on building the Vril Levitator craft. I fist encountered his antigrav back in the early 1990's when I first started researching antigravity...
Blessed Be...
I wathced the 50min video interview of Ralph Ring on the page you linked:
http://www.projectcamelot.org/ralph_ring.html
Great stuff, great story.
If you haven't notice it, there is a counter rotation
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg177.imageshack.us%2Fimg177%2F2181%2Fotis20t20carr010kw9.jpg&hash=a76d0db73fe60c5fde2fec2ff0a108fcf9a4c92d)
although I can't remember which part (the inner or outer) moved clockwise, the other moves in the opposite direction.
That's why the experimental X2 model didn't fly!
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.intalek.com%2FIndex%2FProjects%2FSmartSPIN_X2%2FSmartSPIN_X2.jpg&hash=4046c89a8f664313af77ca3a58bc87d68874dab6)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VAavF8EJzw
Howdy Reformator,
The Vril Levitator also has two counter rotating disks, on smaller than the other. On the larger, lower disk there are several gyros which serve to balance and stabilize the two main disks....
Blessed Be...
I watched a lecture recently in which there's a mention of Tesla's "blue notebook" that was apparently left by Tesla to someone (don't recall the name off-hand), and long story short Otis Carr had possession of it for awhile until it was stolen from him.
So I do not believe Vril Society originated any of these discoveries either. Germans had access to Tesla's writings just like the Americans and the Russians did.
If there's interest, I'll dig out more info about the lecture and post it here..
I have built this gyro ship , and i have to say that it doesn't work, the gyroscopic precession formula is appealing, but the problem is that those formulas are based on the fact that the gyro is free to align to the gravitational vector when it is unconstrained.
I am 100% sure that the Vril doesn't use this method for propulsion, the gyroscopes, one they reach a certain speed they stop to rotate even if they are still powered by batteries.
the angular momentum stop the motor rotating the disc , no way i tried every configuration, you can' beat the angular momentum conservation law.
This device won't lift by 0.0000001 cm from the gorund.
Please do post the info on Tesla's blue book, amigo.
Regards...
Hi Cap-Z-ro
It was more of an anecdotal information, through a lecture/documentary video I watched. The video was Jim Murray - Discussion of Advanced Energy Technologies Researched Since 1960s.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6761827664845630969
Thanks amigo...any info input is helpful in my overunity.com educational courses.
Off to view the video.
Regards...
I remember seeing a video a long time ago. It showed four gyroscopes on opposing axis which, when rotated on the central axis, was supposed to levitated into the air. I have played with gyroscopes a bit and always wondered if the precession could be made to do work. I think the video was on NOVA or some such public tv documentary. This experiment took place inside a barn like structure.
That's all I know. I would hope something like this could work but I am not optimistic. It seems to me, just like the helicopter, when the device lifts off the ground, why would it continue to turn around its axis? Would not the rotating motor on the central axis begin to spin, and the gyroscope arms stand still? Anyway, that is all I have to add.
Bill
To see how the Germans got the information from Tesla, look for the book "The Bush Connection" by Orion. It was written from the pictures and information from Hitlers main body guard Otto Skorzeny.
From the book:
Skorzeny alleges that George Herbert Walker Bush was/is an SS nazi spy, as was he. “Allegedlyâ€, George H.W. Bush was
born in Germany as George H. Scherff Jr., the son of Dr. Nikola Tesla’s German born, illegal immigrant, accountant George H.
Scherff Sr. George Sr. had been robbing Tesla blind for years & giving Tesla’s secret inventions directly to Adolph Hitler. In
1938, Hitler sent 14 year old George H. Scherff Jr. to America to try to befriend, spy on, & kill the Great Inventor, Dr. Nikola
Tesla! George later forged a birth certificate evidencing he was older. He falsely claimed that his last name was Bush, the son
of Prescott & joined the U.S. Navy. Skorzeny claims that he did not fly 58 combat missions for the U.S. Navy as claimed. He
also claims that George H.W. Bush deliberately sabotaged his Grumman TBF Avenger. He radioed his position to his nazi-
comrades waiting in a German Submarine below, shot his instrument panel full of holes, and then he put the plane into a steep
nosedive, & parachuted to safety. His tail-gunner Lt. Junior Grade William White and Radioman Second Class John Delaney
were not able to get out of the plane and parachute to safety because of the tremendous g-forces. The radioman & tail gunner
were both killed while George Herbert Walker Bush survived. The “sunken†Grumman Avenger Torpedo Bomber was then
towed out to sea by the German U-Boat to a large cargo ship waiting near by. The cargo ship had a giant crane on board that
was used to lift the “fully-intactâ€, Avenger onto the ship. The cargo ship then sailed undisturbed back to Germany. That’s how
nazi-Germany was able to “steal†America’s advanced Top Secret, “rotating 50 caliber machine-gun turretâ€, TBF Avenger
Bomber technology. George H.W. Bush you deserve to be tried & convicted as a nazi war criminal just like Prescott was!
I think the key is that the size is related to the speed. Look at this statement he makes in the interview at this link:
http://keelynet.com/gravity/carr4.htm
Colton - We're not giving it for a certain rotation for the sake of rotation but for the sake of relativity to the attractive mass. The earth at 8000 miles diameter rotating once in 24 hours is relatively equal to a 45 foot craft rotating at 580 and 580 would calculate to be the approximate rotational speed of an automobile tire on a car moving at about 25-30 miles per hour.
So size is related to speed. That is why the smaller a wheel is, the easier it is to spin faster with the same amount of energy used to spin a bigger disk.
So he said the craft is 15M in diameter. We know the earth at it's equator is 12756320M which is
12756320/15 = 850421.3333 bigger the earth is than the craft.
We know the earth spins once in 1440 minutes.
The craft at 15M would need to spin 850421.3333 times faster than the earth since it is that many times smaller.
He said it needed to spin at 580 rpm so 580 x 1440 (minutes in a day) is 835200 rpd. Very close to the 850421. A less than 2% difference.
So to achieve anti gravity just spin something at it's speed relative to it's size and it will cease to be influenced by the system it is operating in.
I recall reading about Viktor Schauberger creating a disk that span so fast that it shot up in the air at tremendous speeds. A 10 cm disk using these calculations would have to spin at a rpm of 87000 which would take quite a bit of energy using standard motor technology.
Do we have any examples of a mass spinning at it's relative speed? What type of energy is needed to get a 10 cm disk spinning to 87000rpm. Is there some calculation for that?
Thanks for that info on Bush storre.
Viktor Schauberger is the man when it comes to earth/nature related technology...I don't recall reading of any relation to size relative to speed in the things I read on his craft...did I miss a reference somewhere else ?
If Otis's craft creates its own magnetic field, as alien craft do, and are not subject to 'G' forces, then I can't see the earth's field being an issue.
But who knows, your math skills are far superior to mine...I think I was sick that day. :)
Regards...
The main reason the Vril and Haunebu are still secret is that in order to create a magnetic field it take unimaginable amounts of energy, and it is the holy grail of electric generator and simple , its not unlike a Bedini gate and surely working like a Bedini motor to generate levitation the geometry needs to be precise but not as much for the generator part.The main difference is the shape of the coil core it is a c shape to take both sides of the magnet.It as 12 stator coil, on the rotor the magnet are not fixed but can rotate the shape of the magnet permit rotation without bad vibration.A starting motor and there we have it. On a smaller scale we can assume that a c shape laminate core should improve any Bedini experiment using both side of the magnet to generate magnetic pull .Obvious more coils, if electricity in the coil create magnetic pull , that can be fixed by feeding the coils to a transformer.
The Carr's craft reminds me of a bedini monopole also. I'm currently building some bedini energerizers. The Carr craft seems to have a big capacitor in it's center that accumilates it's energy from the spinning inner disk (also a capacitor) and then sends that out in pulses to the C coils that are fixed to the oppositely spinning outer shell. The 6 spinning tilted double cones are wrapped with magnet wire like a tesla pancake coil to increase it's potential difference but I'm not sure where there 2 ends of that coil connect to. It would be easy enough to wrap the wire and solder it's ends to each end of the cone that could have a metal point so as to contact it's support. Then from the support that energy could be fed to the capacitor as well. Since it doesn't have any permanent magnets it seems just like a motor that just uses coils on both the stator and rotor to create the attraction repulsion. Pulsing these stator coils and rotor coils is the key to their efficiency I think. Seems a type of bedini circuit except instead of using transistors to create the timing, it uses the disk itself that is formed as a capacitor to create the pulsing exactly in step with the rotor.
Quote from: Cap-Z-ro on December 11, 2008, 06:09:00 PM
Thanks for that info on Bush storre.
Viktor Schauberger is the man when it comes to earth/nature related technology...I don't recall reading of any relation to size relative to speed in the things I read on his craft...did I miss a reference somewhere else ?
If Otis's craft creates its own magnetic field, as alien craft do, and are not subject to 'G' forces, then I can't see the earth's field being an issue.
But who knows, your math skills are far superior to mine...I think I was sick that day. :)
Regards...
My math skills are very weak but thanks!
I definitely read somewhere about Viktor saying that his implosion craft would reach a very high speed and then just shoot up in the air, out of site. I didn't understand it at the time but now with this info about Carr's craft it came to the front of my mind and I thought could be from the same effect.
I'm thinking that if you are on a rotating body which creates a magnetic shield, then the only way to escape from the effect of that shield is to rotate either at the same rate or faster.
If you take the speed of the earth at 1 revolution per day and the diameter of the earth and reduce them by 2 then you arrive at very fast speeds for smaller objects. Do we have any examples of things spinning at these rates? I know I have a 10,000rpm HD which is fast for HD's and it's running 10 times slower than the earth would be if it was the same size. The earth at 9cm would be spinning at 93206 rpm!
It seems that to escape from the spinning action of the earth and the gravity created by that then we just have to spin or get into something that is spinning at the same rate or faster so that we slip free from it's oscillations.
So until we learn how to make a motor as efficient as the earth, we get stuck here until we learn how :)
I don't know what the calculation would be to see what the rate of spin of the earth would be as it progressivly got smaller so I did a spreadsheet (attached jpg) and just took the diameter of the earth and reduced by 50% as I doubled it's rate of spin. Then calculated that to revolutions per minute and second.
Does someone know how to make this into a formula so you can take any size and arrive at it's rpm or hz?
Is there any more information on the statement of "space cycle of electricity" or "joining cycles"?
"... Q: In other words, you might call this a self-contained power supply, right? How would this generator --- maybe I'm using the wrong word --- gather additional energy from outside?
OTC: This is due to its circular motion. Electrical forces are motions where they manifest. Now we have cycles in alternating current; AC gives you 60 cycles per second; we have discovered in our experiments that there is a space cycle related to electricity, and if we join the cycle we get energy from it. ..."
from site: http://www.projectcamelot.org/ralph_ring.html
QuoteIn January of 1961, Carr was convicted of "the crime of selling securities without registering the same" in Oklahoma, and fined $5,000, far less than the sums he had obtained from investors in the area. He was denied an appeal on March 1, 1961. Carr could not pay the fine, and served part of a 14-year jail term.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otis_T._Carr
As for the story about George HW Bush being the adopted son of Nikola Tesla based on an unsubstantiated 'ebook' written by 'Orion'...give me a break!
Let's look at some of 'Orion's other claims shall we? (from Amazon.com's page for this 'book')
DR. JOSEF MENGELE IS THE ZODIAC KILLER, THE REAL BOSTON STRANGLER AND THE REAL 2001 ANTHRAX MAILER KILLER WHO ALL HAVE NEVER BEEN CAUGHT!
THE NAZIS MURDERED DR. NIKOLA TESLA IN 1943!
GEORGE H.W. BUSH WAS THE BADGEMAN ON THE GRASSY KNOLL!
SEE NEVER BEFORE PUBLISHED PHOTOS OF BARBARA BUSH AND SS NAZI GEORGE H. SCHERFF AKA: GEORGE H.W. BUSH WITH SS NAZIS: OTTO SKORZENY, JOSEF MENGELE, MARTIN BORMANN, REINHARDT GEHLEN AND MORE!
SEE THE ONLY PHOTO OF HITLER IN EXISTENCE AFTER HIS ALLEGED SUICIDE!
HITLER'S SS GESTAPO MERGED WITH THE AMERICAN OSS TO FORM THE CIA.
But don't trust me. Pay $25 and read the PDF for yourself.
Could be interesting for you:
http://www.philosophyforum.com/forum/philosophy-forums/philosophers/ninteenth-century-philosophers/walter-russell/1842-walter-russell-otis-carr-tesla-schappeller.html (http://www.philosophyforum.com/forum/philosophy-forums/philosophers/ninteenth-century-philosophers/walter-russell/1842-walter-russell-otis-carr-tesla-schappeller.html)
If you look at the diagrams of an allegedly Vril-Device, you will see, that's exactly the same as a Carr-device except the Carr-Device has some additional outer Utrons, which are used IMHO to rotate the thing on its own, while the Vril-devices needed a motor for this.
Here a Vril-diagram:
And quoting hitlers famous line:
If you are going to lie, lie big so it's not believable.
Get the book, see the pictures to back up what he says.
He shows pictures of all the key people from wwii up until the present with 100s of pictures.
Very convincing but better you get the book before convincing others it's bogus.
The truth is much stranger than fiction!!
Oh and there is no date on the official surrender document of germany surrendering.
Oh and don't forget operation paperclip which is tied into all of this. It's the cleaned up version of what really happened.
Why would I waste my money on yet another book of nonsense?
Quote from: storre on December 14, 2008, 08:24:10 PM
Oh and there is no date on the official surrender document of germany surrendering.
Wrong. All these documents have dates on and in them. The main German instrument of surrender signed 7 May 1945 has the date written on both pages - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_instrument_of_surrender for a scan.
The only lie being told here is the author telling porkies. I guess he's never heard of Google or Wikipedia.
And just to be complete:
Instrument of Local Surrender of German and Other Forces Under the Command or Control of the German Commander-In-Chief Southwest; April 29, 1945
2. All armed forces under the command or control of the German Commander-in-Chief Southwest will cease all hostilities on land, at sea and in the air at 1200 hours (Greenwich mean time) on 2 May 1945. The German Commander-in-Chief Southwest undertakes to arrange accordingly.
Signed at RHEIMS at 0241 on the 7th day of May, 1945. France On behalf of the German High Command.
Instrument of Surrender of all German Armed Forces in Holland, in Northwest Germany Including all Islands, and in Denmark; May 4, 1945
Instrument of surrender signed at Luneburg, Germany, May 4, 1945
Entered into f orce May 4, 1945; operative May 5, 1945
2. All hostilities on land, on sea, or in the air by German forces in the above areas to cease at 0800 furs. British Double Summer Time on Saturday 5 May 1945.
Act of Military Surrender Signed at Berlin on the 8th day of May, 1945
2. The German High Command will at once issue orders to all German military, naval and air authorities and to all forces under German control to cease active operations at 2301 hours Central European time on 8th May 1945, to remain in the positions occupied at that time and to disarm completely, handing over their weapons and equipment to the local allied commanders or officers designated by Representatives of the Allied Supreme Commands. No ship, vessel, or aircraft is to be scuttled, or any damage done to their hull, machinery or equipment, and also to machines of all kinds, armament, apparatus, and all the technical means of prosecution of war in general.
from http://avalon.law.yale.edu/subject_menus/gsmenu.asp
Quote from: wizardofmars on December 15, 2008, 11:04:05 AM
Why would I waste my money on yet another book of nonsense?
Why not? Money is that important? Send me your email and I will send you my copy then you don't have to spend anything and then you can discuss something with facts instead of suppositions.
BTW, the first page does NOT have the surrender year. Seems strange no. It's not important to have a year on such an important document?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:German_instrument_of_surrender2.jpg
Quote from: storre on December 15, 2008, 12:04:27 PM
BTW, the first page does NOT have the surrender year.
But it has the day and time of surrender, which was the important part. The year is on the second page. They were busy fighting a war. Maybe they were short of proofreaders. ::)
I've signed hundreds of contracts that don't have the date on any page except the signature block.
Quote from: storre on December 15, 2008, 12:04:27 PM
It's not important to have a year on such an important document?
Yes, it is is very important. But they don't need it on every page of a two page document. Was it confusing for historians trying to figure out when WWII ended if they didn't put the year on every page of the two page document?
I like how your claim morphed from 'no date on the document' to 'no year on the first page'. Typical conspiracy BS that never stands up to scrutiny.
I think the year would be important but really it's one small part of many pictures and documents that show what happened. It's really the extension of project paperclip that seems to be more well known.
It explains why Bush and his father did so much to destroy America's image along with the many other problems they caused.
Picture after picture showing about 15 of his closest comrades first in nazi uniforms and then in regular clothes in family get together settings, mostly in Florida about 30 minutes from where I live. The pictures are a few years apart from each other and show clearly that it's the same person.
What are all these nazi's doing in America at weddings and family get togethers???
Anyway read the book if you want to know more. It was something I stumbled onto researching FE but it came with some very interesting information about Tesla which is my main intersest. Politics usually are very uninteresting to me but it explains how Tesla may have unwittingly helped the nazi's win the war. haha sorry had to put that in :)
LOL, I don't mind if some people wanna believe Hitler's still alive or that Nazi's still are somewhere hidden...etc...etc...
If some people wanna believe this, they can. Everybody can believe whatever he likes, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else.
But please, I think this has now gone quite far too offtopic in this thread!
I wouldn't mind if it has something to do with Carr's device, but the discussion has really already gone from this theme.
Thank you.
Sorry I started this, by posting an allegedly VRIL-Schema. I also don't know if this whole Vril/Haunebu-story is true. As all the information about it is actually from one source (Jürgen Ratthofer), the rest just always copied from him (e.g. van Helsing). And Ratthofer himself never ever mentioned the source for his stories and documents, more than that, he even declared in the foreword of his books, that this doesn't have to be correct what he's writing!
I myself was just astonished when I saw these allegedly Vril-Schemas, as they really look very similar to the Carr-Device.
There are just 2 major differences:
* Carr's device also has outer Utrons
* The Vril-Devices are mounted so that the inner part can not only rotate around the central axis, but also rotate a little bit on the x-y-plane.
I was astonsihed, as according to how I understand these devices work, it should really be able to fly.
The outer Utrons are IMHO really just for additional regeneration (produce energy) and at the same time they rotate on their own around the central Utron. Which means, the Vril device would need to put always quite some energy to keep the rotation, whereas the Carr-device would do it on its own.
The complicate x-y-plane mount of the Vril could have been necessary to be able to dampen the precessional movements which will happen during the flight.
Today one would control this by directly computer controlling the outer magnets, so it would not be really needed anymore. But at that time, maybe this mechanical dampening principle was more doable than some electric controlled thing.
As I said. I don't know if the Vril/Haunebu-stories are real. And even if they would be real, how much of it would be real.
But according to my understanding the schema I posted at least would make sense.
Just for speculation purposes:
How would the germans have got to this idea?
* Well from telephatic messages from Aldebaran... ;D (Well if you wanna believe this, I don't)
* Schaeppeller invented quite some similar devices. But he used spherical coils. And in the schema are conical coils. Second if it would be based on him, it would almost certainly also have outer Utrons, as this was his major thing, to drive machines with the power that the outer Utrons develop around the central Utron!
* From Schauberger. It is known that Viktor Schauberger had to work some time for the Nazis. He developed the so called "Repulsine". But this device is quite different from the other devices, as it works on a water/air mechanical principle, although it surely is based on the same physics. But even Schauberger himself said, that they will never be able to build such one without him, as there are too many secrets he kept for himself.
* They got it from Tesla. It is known, that the late Tesla declared, that he invented a flying machine without wings and propellers...It is also known, that one of his few friends was a german spy. So it could be possible that Tesla explained him something or even showed him something. But he certainly would not have understood the complete physics behind it. And he maybe just saw some early prototype. As if they would have understood the principle they would certainly also have mounted outer Utrons.
Carr, as declared by Ralph Ring, was Tesla's disciple. So he certainly would have known the principle behind this. So he surely used the outer Utrons.
Well surely this all is just some pure speculation. But sometimes I like to speculate...
Quote from: Shanti on December 16, 2008, 04:19:59 AM
LOL, I don't mind if some people wanna believe Hitler's still alive or that Nazi's still are somewhere hidden...etc...etc...
Yes Hitler's dead so lets move on :) He died in February 2004, in Bethesda, MD at the age of 114 year old! His American alias was William Coates. Look him up and you will see more.
But back to Carr :)
One thing I don't hear much talk about is how the ship was controlled. I recall Carr or Ralph Ring saying that in their test flight of the 45' craft that it was controlled by the intentions of the occupants. I suppose they thought were they wanted to go and the ship just took them there.
Every time I think about that I wonder if that is not just our pineal gland (radio receiver and transmitter?) that is doing this. Our pineal is known to be a water filled endocrine gland and water is a very interesting substance.
I also recall "project looking glass" and a description of a tube containing water surrounded by a magnetic field.
Perhaps a magnetic field is a shield for whatever is inside of it's field. Similar to how earth's magnetic field protects it's occupants.
Our pineal may just not be functioning optimally because it does not have it's natural magnetic field protection. Maybe this protection comes from the hypothalamus when it is functioning fully. Maybe it creates a magnetic shield for our pineal so that it can function as it is intended.
Maybe the ship helps in this same way by shielding the occupants AND their pineal gland.
It also fits with the stories of captured et craft where it's described that they seemed to have no system of control.
Our body is our ship but we can't control it fully like a ship because our center of control is being bombarded with radiation from all sources, especially other people.
Well I'm just trying to think out of the box :)
QuoteYes Hitler's dead so lets move on He died in February 2004, in Bethesda, MD at the age of 114 year old!
;D ;D ;D
This reminds me of a Simpson-episode, where they were in south-america and Homer got abducted. There they also showed the "old" Hitler...
QuoteWell I'm just trying to think out of the box
LOL
Well as one gets the story of Carr. It is also described that they flew with small prototypes in the valley where they had the company. And these were radio controlled.
Well as I understand the principle it works like that:
If you just wanna levitate and fly around, you can control it as you wish just by controlling the E-magnets and the rotation speed and the "current" you let through the Utrons.
But the principle is, that you force to discharge the saucer. This means it will get to another potential pressure level. Due to the discharge it will surely also radiate on many frequency spectras. This is why many people report sunburns after seeing a saucer, or radios not working anymore or the glow around the saucer, etc.
As the potential pressure is lowered you more and more disintegrate the matter, and the frequency will be heightened.
If you push this really far. Far beyond the point you would need just to fly around! You will disintegrate such a lot, that the matter could not be anymore visible to outstanding persons as they shifted to a too high frequency spectrum.
But it still exists as a high frequency model (the idea of the physical).
But what do we know from these higher spectrum. The next higher is for example called the astral-plane.
For some time I regularly left my body and spent some time there. What you will very fast recognize is, that the speed which is possible is much faster on this plane. And you can easily travel to some place just by thinking at it.
So what I think Ralph described is such a disintegration of the saucer to the astral plane. There mind controls movement. So you can move very fast and just by thinking. And as you stop the saucer again, it will immediately start charging again, due to the potential pressure around it. So the frequency will again be lowered, until you are again on the same pressure level as the earth surface.
the problem he desribed, about the brain having difficulty in catching this plane translation is also easy to explain. As the physical brain did not exist anymore on the physical plane for some time during the flight. And so as seen by the brain your mind has experiences some more time than the brain remembers. This surely is difficult for the brain to understand.
I think this is also why the germans called their first prototype JFM (Jenseitsflugmaschine) (rough translation: after life world flying machine). It would make sense. As if you die, you first discard the physical body, and remain having your other bodies, now your lowest body would be in the astral-plane (which then you discard also, etc.). Surely all just holds, if these stories are really true!
I knwo these explanation might seem very strange. But if you read some books of Walter Russell, e.g. "the Universal One", you will get what I mean.
Yes Walter Russell = a very helpful man!!
Thanks for your explanation. It really helped fill in the blanks in my understanding!! I'm very familiar with the astral plane. I fly around in it weekly and my wife visits teachers there.
I did some very serious fasting for 3 years and had even stronger experiences. It seems that food densifies us so that it's not as easy to enter the astral world but that is another subject more crazy than what you are referring to :)
Hi Folks,
you can speculate al lot but you should not be distracted from some inconvenient truths.
I think the history of frauds has happened in many business lines and so-called scientific developments :
http://science.howstuffworks.com/otis-carr.htm (http://science.howstuffworks.com/otis-carr.htm)
I will not comment this - it is self-explaining.
Regards
Kator01
I read the story and came away with a completely different conclusion. To me it was just a way to discredit something that they need to discredit. The same thing they did to Carr during his moment is what they want to do to everyone that thinks what he did is possible. BTW, the picture is of a german built (build in brazil where I live) space craft. Obviously not from an advanced civilization but it worked even though it resembles the style of a 56 chevy which is the clue to it's build date.
I prefer to believe and I support that belief with the facts that many people came up with VERY similar solutions to solve the same problem.
Read this list of people that solved the problem of anti-gravity and see if you can see a common thread.
Decker's Anti-Gravity Correlatives - 03/23/97
After much consideration and discussion with trusted friends, the following heretofore private file is being posted in hopes it will help to accelerate the discovery of gravity control in a real sense. It does not matter who does it, just that it is available for use by everyone. Maybe others will find it useful.
Compiled over the years and written up on December 5, 1993
Decker's Anti-Gravity Correlatives
The following is a compilation of information pointing to the basic principle of levitation that I have found in years of collecting and analyzing levitation phenomena and which can be reduced to a basic set of "clues".
These correlations are more than sufficient to give us engineerable approaches to the diminution or complete negation of what we term "weight" and "gravity".
One should understand the complete fallacy regarding the Newtonian concept of gravity being an ATTRACTIVE force. Rather, the majority of evidence points to gravity being a PUSHING force, most clearly seen in the relationships of celestial bodies. The permutations associated with smaller aggregates make it more difficult to perceive the TRUE nature of "gravity".
The simplest approach to keep in mind is that the universe is full of pressure zones that flow toward the center of all masses at a velocity proportionate to the mass aggregate size. Such a flow can be thought of as a wind blowing into the planet, with the planet functioning as a screen on which all mass is held by this incoming pressure.
We and all other mass aggregations which are associated with a particular celestial body are thus held onto the planet by this wind. Overcoming it is then simply a matter of "coming to speed" with this incoming flow.
Levity Rings
1) Keely - uses two methods
For Thrust (or levitation)
An artificial neutral center is created which causes the natural neutral center of the test mass to be drawn towards the artificial center with an attraction proportional to the energy flowing through the artificial neutral center.
For Weight Increase or aggregation of additional mass
When the artificial neutral center is superposed onto the natural center, the aether flows increase proportionate to the entraining amplitudes flowing through the artificial neutral center thus causing an increase in weight and a gradual INCREASE in the mass density.
For Levitation
A wire or ring is placed around the object. The ring is fed with a frequency that resonates with the neutral center of the mass. Such a resonance, properly directed can cause what Keely calls "high vortex action" to decrease or increase the aether flow through the mass neutral center. This flow creates the equivalent of a soliton, or a self-contained standing wave with extremely high rotational velocities on the perimeter of the mass. Such a flow directly controls the "weight" of the mass by exceeding the Flotte 'Z' axis or better stated, by creating a higher potential in the mass aggregate than that of the surrounding media for ejection of the mass to one more favorable to its energetic level.
Keely also reports a cooling effect of the local air when the anti-grav effect was in operation.
2) Uncle - (my FAVORITE!!)
the old man claimed he had inherited the secret of antigravity from his late uncle. "Weight is no object to me," he said. "I suspend all gravity by placing a small wire around an object. Taken from an 1890 series airship contact case. This particular airship as in numerous other documented cases, FLOATED in the air as a ship FLOATS on water.
3) Dotto
a constantan RING, cooled and heated, creates a force like that which suspends the planets in their orbits. The velocity of energy within this ring exceeds that of the planet velocity, thus imparting a tremendous amount of energy within the space of the ring and thus providing "levitation".
4) Tesla
"I can place a ring around the Earth at the equator and move it anywhere I so wish." It is CLAIMED that Tesla built a levitating sphere comprised of a ball with a single ring at the equator. When this ring was fed with an alternating current at high potential, one half of the sphere became very hot, the other very cold. The sphere levitated to a height dependent on the energy applied.
5) Schappeller
a globe, the top half hot, the bottom half cold, will levitate. The globe was composed of an external sphere made of iron, with an internal sphere made of ceramic or other non-conductive, high temperature material. This internal sphere was grooved to make a path for two separate conductive copper tubes, wound in opposite directions, one for the top half, spinning from the "North" pole towards the equator, the other spinning from the "South" pole towards the equator. The copper tube was filled with a "polarized dielectric". When the center sphere was spun with the iron sphere remaining stationary, a "glowing magnetism" was produced that could be tapped to produce free energy and/or levitation.
6) Farrow
an 18 ounce box, with a ring of electrical interrupters, when powered will produce a negative "weight" of 3 ounces to cause the box to float in the air. These electrical interrupters when fired at a frequency related or equal to that of the mass aggregate frequency, will produce the rotating sphere of high potential that results in levitation or "weight loss"
Aggregate Resonance Levitation
7) Egyptian Meru
a rectangular stone is covered on 4 sides with wet papyrus. A specially carved wooden rod is struck against the uncovered stone face and removed. While holding the rod, the vibrations will continue to increase, at the greatest amplitude, the rod is re- applied to the exposed stone face. The energy from the rod will suffuse through the stone, alter the neutral center aether flow by stimulated kindling and cause temporary levitation.
8) Leekskalnin
the hands are placed lightly over a stone to be levitated. An orally produced musical scale is run through until the hands feel a response stimulus from the stone. Each tone must be sustained to allow the mass to resonate and produce a sufficient reflection to enable detection. Once the mass aggregate resonance is hit upon, that frequency must be SUSTAINED to cause the neutral center to alter the aether flow and thus cause the mass to levitate.
Mechanical Rotation
9) Carr
found that rotation of a ring at a velocity greater than that of the Earth at its equator will produce levitation. Although Carr does not explain WHY this is so (I have since found it in Flotte's 'Z' axis), it is again the control of the flow of Aether through the natural neutral center of the mass.
10) Maine Professor - courtesy of Dan Davidson
a mechanical system, possibly using uni-directional thrust to create a levitation effect. This could also be a rotational mass, using the principle of the Carr Velocity.
Vortexial Rotation
11) Brown
the Biefeld/Brown effect, IN ITS MOST ADVANCED FORM, using rotation of very high potentials on the skin of the craft to produce the artififical neutral center. Early experiments showed a correlation between high voltage charges and gravity. When these charges were rotated, the craft developed tremendous lift and thrust, as specified below.
12) Searl
the electrical and kinetic energies are resonantly coupled from high speed rotation. This rotation exceeds the Carr Velocity at the Earth's Equator and so interacts with the neutral center of the mass to affect the aether flow and produce levitation.
13) Schauberger
by rapid rotation of sand, air, water or any other medium in a vortexial pattern, the aether flow through the neutral center of a mass can be enhanced or retarded to produce levitation.
Artificial Neutral Center
14) Wil Wilson
anecdote about a newspaper article with a picture describing a levitation device that was suppressed. A cylindrical container with a series of solenoids mounted on the top of the cylinder. Each solenoid is pointed towards a central focal point. When the solenoids are pulsed at the same frequency, the combined force creates an artificial neutral center which, depending on the amplitude of energy flowing into this artificial neutral center will cause the natural mass neutral center to be attracted to the artificial neutral center. The mass will thus be pulled in which ever direction the artificial neutral center is pointed, regardless of direction.
15) Fry
from a UFO case history, description of two rings. When dual magnetic fields are produced in these rings, the interaction will focus between the rings. This focal point will produce an artificial neutral center towards which the mass will be attracted by virtue of resonant attraction of the natural neutral center.
Theoretical
16) Flotte
the late Engineer Leonard Flotte, wrote an excellent book refuting the Einstein principles of Relativity. He uses a helixial system to describe planetary rotation, how such forces could be tapped, the relationship to time, gravity and other correlates.
I have spoken to the son, who understands almost nothing of his fathers work beyond saying that yes, his father had refrained from stating certain aspects of his research in the published book.
Essentially, all planetary orbits can be mapped onto a cylinder of a fixed length. The orbit, though longer in some cases, shorter in others, simply spirals around the cylinder MORE times dependent on its length. Thus, a reference frame is established known as the 'Z' axis. This 'Z' axis is thus a measure of the rotation VELOCITY of a planetary mass aggregate, otherwise known as its orbit.
The orbit of each planet is an indication of the energy level associated with that REGION OF SPACE and clues us into how we can transcend time and gravity by EXCEEDING the 'Z' axis, i.e. accelerating the energy level of a mass to exceed the energy level for our particular location in space.
This correlates perfectly with Russell, Pawlicki and Nieper (among others) who state that the closer to the sun or other RADIANT bodies, the greater is the energy density for that region of space. Thus, the farther one moves FROM such a radiant body, the less energetic is the local environment.
All this points to equating levitation as spitting a wet watermelon seed, from one pressure zone (energy level) to another, based on the focussed energy level IN a mass neutral center.
Lol, gee, there was somebody busy.
I agree, that the link you posted doesn't necessarily really prove it was scam.
Especially as the few more or less trustworthy people who really declared or even showed they built something in that direction all had the same physics! And from this physics point of view, Carr's device should work.
And from all these, I think Walter Russell explained at it's best the "physics" behind it.
@storre: About the many things you posted.
Well I only know very few of them. As I occupied myself intensively only with these people (Keely, Schauberger, Tesla, Carr, Schaeppeller, Russell). But for these few the explanantions given are definitely not really correct:
example:
Quote5) Schappeller
a globe, the top half hot, the bottom half cold, will levitate. The globe was composed of an external sphere made of iron, with an internal sphere made of ceramic or other non-conductive, high temperature material. This internal sphere was grooved to make a path for two separate conductive copper tubes, wound in opposite directions, one for the top half, spinning from the "North" pole towards the equator, the other spinning from the "South" pole towards the equator. The copper tube was filled with a "polarized dielectric". When the center sphere was spun with the iron sphere remaining stationary, a "glowing magnetism" was produced that could be tapped to produce free energy and/or levitation.
I don't know where to start. But for example he never said that the top is hot and the bottom cold.
Another example is the last sentence about the center sphere spun with a stationary iron sphere...Well his actual machine worked quite differently...
It is really amazing, so many people write so many wrong things about Schaeppeller. This astonishs me, as there is only one book to study. But even authors how wrote complete chapters in their books about Schaeppeller don't seem to have really read it! Surely it's difficult to get. But you can download it on the net. I personally have an original, as this is much easier to study than a scan...
Another example:
Quote9) Carr
found that rotation of a ring at a velocity greater than that of the Earth at its equator will produce levitation. Although Carr does not explain WHY this is so (I have since found it in Flotte's 'Z' axis), it is again the control of the flow of Aether through the natural neutral center of the mass.
The rotation is only an additional movement which is necessary for discharge, the important part is the Central-Utron!
Just spinning something will not get you anywhere...no matter how fast you spin...
Quote4) Tesla
"I can place a ring around the Earth at the equator and move it anywhere I so wish." It is CLAIMED that Tesla built a levitating sphere comprised of a ball with a single ring at the equator. When this ring was fed with an alternating current at high potential, one half of the sphere became very hot, the other very cold. The sphere levitated to a height dependent on the energy applied.
When did he say that! Who claims this? I thought I read all of Teslas lectures and articles, but never read something about that!
This smells to me like another fantasy claim someone invented about Tesla...
Or another serious misinterpretation...like many many others...
I also not completely agree with the Keely and Schauberger explanations, but as these two anyway had a very very special vocabulary in explaining their work, it maybe wouldn't be easy to explain it in a few simple words...
To me it seems the author of these explanations did gather all he could find about the phenomena, but didn't really profoundly study the work of these people or just didn't understand them, as it seems he sometimes didn't even really get the keypoints.
Quote from: Shanti on December 16, 2008, 06:17:41 PM
To me it seems the author of these explanations did gather all he could find about the phenomena, but didn't really profoundly study the work of these people or just didn't understand them, as it seems he sometimes didn't even really get the keypoints.
I would agree on that point!
The hot and cold statement may have been an analogy. Many times these inventors made statements when they were alive so as to not tip off others. Now that is not important but then it would have been.
I'm interested in Schappeller but have never read anything of his. You know of a good link that has a good collection of his stuff or a link to that book?
And I've been wondering something that maybe you can shed some light on. Is it possible that with a high enough ac frequency and voltage that the ring around a globe would work? I believe in what Carr said in that if you can spin an object at it's relative mass velocity then it will be immune to the gravitational effects of the body that IT is spinning on. IOW the earth. Well maybe that is what Tesla was referring to and it reminds me a bit of John Keely's work also even though he was doing more with audible vibrations as far as I'm aware. Either way the harmonics continue on forever so even if we are messing with lower frequencies, they should have an effect on higher frequencies according to the harmonic overtones.
Quote from: storre on December 16, 2008, 08:28:41 PM
I would agree on that point!
The hot and cold statement may have been an analogy. Many times these inventors made statements when they were alive so as to not tip off others. Now that is not important but then it would have been.
I'm interested in Schappeller but have never read anything of his. You know of a good link that has a good collection of his stuff or a link to that book?
And I've been wondering something that maybe you can shed some light on. Is it possible that with a high enough ac frequency and voltage that the ring around a globe would work? I believe in what Carr said in that if you can spin an object at it's relative mass velocity then it will be immune to the gravitational effects of the body that IT is spinning on. IOW the earth. Well maybe that is what Tesla was referring to and it reminds me a bit of John Keely's work also even though he was doing more with audible vibrations as far as I'm aware. Either way the harmonics continue on forever so even if we are messing with lower frequencies, they should have an effect on higher frequencies according to the harmonic overtones.
You are missing the point here on this one I think. I have read many books on Tesla and his "ring around the world" was a mechanical device designed to utilize the earth's rotation for power or travel. Think about it for a minute. (Probably not possible to build, but maybe) He said to erect a ring that sits above the ground at a certain height, mounted on pylons like a bridge. Once built, If you are on one side of the globe, that ring wants to fall due to gravity. If you are on the other side of the globe, same thing. His ideas was, once built, to turn it loose from the pylons. It would then "hover" because it was being pulled toward the earth in all directions and could not fall to the earth due to its construction. (ring) He then said that while the earth was turning at 1 rpd, covering many thousands of miles, that it could be used to generate power like a generator. also, he envisioned that a person could get on the ring in NY and step off a little while later in France. See? Very forward thinking from a real genius. I believe this could actually be done. Very expensive though.
Bill
Ahh thank you Bill.
So it again was what I already thought. A serious misinterpretation of one of Tesla's devices. I also don't know how people can interpret Tesla's statements sometimes in such a very very different way...
Seems people read just what they wanna read...Unfortunately this is the way the brain works...
Davson's book about Schappeller's physics: http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Davson.pdf (http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Davson.pdf)
QuoteI believe in what Carr said in that if you can spin an object at it's relative mass velocity then it will be immune to the gravitational effects of the body that IT is spinning on.
Well this is not really completely correct. If you read "The Universal One", you will immediately understand what Carr talks about. If you want to understand this, you have to read it.
First you have to build an artificial atom/plant/solar/system/galaxy/etc..., this you mainly do with the help of the Central-Utron. Like that it becomes a natural system, which is able to "breathe" in and out. Now it also behaves like the rules for natural systems. And there now comes the rotation velocity into play. As the rotation velocity is directly proportional to the discharge of the system. If you just turn anytihing very fast you will not see any effect, as what you are turning is not an "artificial" breathing system. Otherwise there would be quite some things which would turn fast enough to levitate (e.g. a Turbomolecular pump), but they don't, simply because they are not in an artificial system, but still belong to the earth system.... The rotation velocity behaves mathematically exactly like Carr described. E.g. if you have a system which is 10 times smaller than the earth it has to turn 10times faster to get the same discharge as the earth. this also determines the potential pressure of the system. So if you turn this system "relatively" as fast as the earth it will also float, like the earth in space.
An example: You never asked yourself, why the outer planets rotate so fast around themselves, while the inner planets rotate very slowly? This is exactly this law. The rotation period and the size are directly connected to the distance, where the systems are in equilibrium, and vice versa.
E.g. if you would grab the earth and put it at the distance where Jupiter is, it would become much bigger in size, would turn much faster around itself, and at the same time the revolution time around the sun would increase.
Sure this is just a rough explanation. As I said, if you want to have it more detailed, then you should read the book.
Quote from: Shanti on December 17, 2008, 04:57:05 AM
[…]
Sure this is just a rough explanation. As I said, if you want to have it more detailed, then you should read the book.
Thanks oh shanti shanti. I'm reading the book now. Thanks for the link!
With all the brains we have thinking on this subject around the world and all the people like Tesla that solved these problems, I think it's a very short time before one of US rediscovers the techniques. Even mistakes about interpretation can birth new ideas. I recall so many things in my life that resulted from what appeared to be an accident or misunderstanding at the time. The sub conscious works in mysterious ways :)
QuoteThanks oh shanti shanti. I'm reading the book now. Thanks for the link!
Lol I actually thought you should read "The Universal One" from Russell, not Schaeppellers book.
As Schaeppeller surely did already have quite a profound knowledge, but Russell had the complete picture.
I don't think it would be a problem to really publish detailed such devices. But I ask, should we?
My personal opinion is, as long as humanity is still in the barbarian state, we should not give out such devices. As in the wrong hands, the outcome could be disastrous...
The current world-picture may seem hard. But it seems people will need these crashes on and on until they understand that material sense satisfying is not what humanity is for. We are spiritual beings, so we should also act like that.
The funny thing is, that Russell also said that. That before one should publish such inventions, the first invention to publish has to be the ultimate defending device. So that all weapons would be useless. Only then one should give out the other inventions. But unfortunately until now, I could not get the idea how to use this principle to design such a defending device. Although, I would have tons of ideas how to use this physics to design the most terrible weapons you could imagine. Sure I know, why this is, for I'm also still partly in this barbarian stage. No doubt about that.
Well, nevertheless. Wish you all the best, light, love and peace.
Quote from: Shanti on December 17, 2008, 10:43:57 AM
Lol I actually thought you should read "The Universal One" from Russell, not Schaeppellers book.
As Schaeppeller surely did already have quite a profound knowledge, but Russell had the complete picture.
Well I love to read so I will read them both but will take your advice to read Russell first. This Russell book is online? It's the one more pertaining to this subject? I live quite remotely so it's not to easy to get things physically. That is why I need the space ship also. hahaha
Quote from: Shanti on December 17, 2008, 10:43:57 AM
I don't think it would be a problem to really publish detailed such devices. But I ask, should we?
My personal opinion is, as long as humanity is still in the barbarian state, we should not give out such devices. As in the wrong hands, the outcome could be disastrous...
The current world-picture may seem hard. But it seems people will need these crashes on and on until they understand that material sense satisfying is not what humanity is for. We are spiritual beings, so we should also act like that.
The funny thing is, that Russell also said that. That before one should publish such inventions, the first invention to publish has to be the ultimate defending device. So that all weapons would be useless. Only then one should give out the other inventions. But unfortunately until now, I could not get the idea how to use this principle to design such a defending device. Although, I would have tons of ideas how to use this physics to design the most terrible weapons you could imagine. Sure I know, why this is, for I'm also still partly in this barbarian stage. No doubt about that.
Well I agree but it's my belief that we are in these situations just because these devices are ALREADY in the wrong hands! Really though I don't plan to release any information on this type of machine when and IF I ever do recreate it. I'm looking at it more for an energy producing device because electricity where I'm at is difficult AND very expensive!
Quote from: Shanti on December 17, 2008, 10:43:57 AM
Well, nevertheless. Wish you all the best, light, love and peace.
Love and Light for you to and nice to meet someone on the same wavelength :)
Peace!
Quoted excerpt;
" material sense satisfying is not what humanity is for."
How true...and how fortunate that I discovered that early on in life.
The satisfaction of the people I deal with far outweighs any monetary return...as a result I still enjoy doing what I do for a living...although a lighter schedule would have me enjoying it more. :)
I think I read somewhere that junior Bush was actually conceived in one of those anti gravity discs, and that somehow his neurons became entangled with the ships waste disposal control unit during a sudden phase shift caused by lightening..is that true ?
That wood explain a lot.
Regards...
Quote from: Cap-Z-ro on December 17, 2008, 02:08:27 PM
Quoted excerpt;
I think I read somewhere that junior Bush was actually conceived in one of those anti gravity discs, and that somehow his neurons became entangled with the ships waste disposal control unit during a sudden phase shift caused by lightening..is that true ?
Tooooo funny! Bush the phase shifted turd :)
That Project Camelot site with the Otis Carr info is nutsville. Space brothers, Serpo, wingmakers, psychic healers, mysterious UFO witnesses dying off left and right. I notice their forums are coin operated which speaks volumes to Bill Ryan's motivation.
QuoteI am in constant contact with the Creator, Great Spirit, One that is All, Mother Nature, Divine Essence, RA, Ascended Masters, Collective Consciousness, beings from other worlds, angels, aliens, my core group, even with you, my brother. Be still and know just who you are, who WE are and enjoy the love of it ALL.
It's almost like Ralph Ring didn't get the memo that the 1950's 'Space Brothers' nonsense was exactly that. He sounds like a deconstructed George Adamski. Does anyone seriously believe him that the Space Brothers are waiting for us on Mars and Venus?
Carr's book 'Dimensions of Mystery' is stream of consciousness religious rambling with almost zero scientific content. How anyone believes this guy actually built a flying saucer is the only mystery.
QuoteThat Project Camelot site with the Otis Carr info is nutsville. Space brothers, Serpo, wingmakers, psychic healers, mysterious UFO witnesses dying off left and right. I notice their forums are coin operated which speaks volumes to Bill Ryan's motivation.
LOL, why do you relate the reliability of a person to a site which writes about him or interviews him?
Sure I also have some doubts about the Camelot site, but this has actually nothing to do with Carr. I don't see how you can make a tie here.
E.g.: If I set up a site about you, and interview you, and I am completely nuts. Does this mean, you're also completely nuts? (this is just an example, I absolutely don't mean, that Bill Ryan is completely nuts!)
QuoteCarr's book 'Dimensions of Mystery' is stream of consciousness religious rambling with almost zero scientific content. How anyone believes this guy actually built a flying saucer is the only mystery.
Lol, it also wasn't intended from Carr, that this should be a scientific work!!! It was a piece of (art)-literature Carr wrote.
But I can surely understand your doubts. I would also have them, if I didn't have plunged deeply into the works of e.g. Keely, Schauberger, Schaeppeller or Russell.
They really all share the same cosmology, and the interesting thing there is, that Carr's device is like a 1:1 practical realization of this cosmology.
In this relation, also the story of Carr being a disciple of Tesla, would fit perfectly into this picture.
Therefore I personally think, this thing was real and worked.
But as everybody has his own right to believe or doubt whatever he likes. No problem...
I don't accept as truth everything on the Camalot site either Shanti...but I listen to and read everything.
Among all the information gleaned, the truth will resonate within you...at least it does with me.
Regards...
QuoteAmong all the information gleaned, the truth will resonate within you...at least it does with me.
Perfect. I couldn't have described it better!
This is also, how I feel. It's like an inner voice, which immediately tells you if what you read is the truth or not.
But I didn't wanna explain it that way to wizardofmars, as he probably wouldn't have understood, what I meant.
Thank you
Quote from: Shanti on December 22, 2008, 01:44:48 PM
Sure I also have some doubts about the Camelot site, but this has actually nothing to do with Carr. I don't see how you can make a tie here.
Because that website is one of the sources on Carr, and most of the 'new' info comes via Ralph Ring.
Here's what I think - Ralph Ring's story has been a great draw for UFO conferences and selling various videos for the last few years. Nobody appears to have done anything to actually validate anything the guy says.
Ring makes wild assertions about Carr and Tesla working together that have never been proven. Until then, he's as phony as Dr Jonathan Reed and the alien in the freezer.
And here's what i think. it is
Cristal Clear that Wizardofmars is not some hobbiest inventor
nor a seeker of Truth. the moment i saw his posts. it cried out:
I AM here to plant Fear and doubt, .I AM at the service of the true rulers.
here you will find the truth
save it . we wll need it.
http://www.neo.im/mediadetails.php?key=f6374bf2abb0e42e8a0c&title=Magnetic+Energy+-+Free+Energy
Love, Light, Life.
Quote from: shablol on December 22, 2008, 11:33:03 PM
the moment i saw his posts. it cried out: I AM here to plant Fear and doubt, .I AM at the service of the true rulers.
The moment I saw your posts, I had to read them again..and again. Education FAIL.
Quote
here you will find the truth
save it . we wll need it.
http://www.neo.im/mediadetails.php?key=f6374bf2abb0e42e8a0c&title=Magnetic+Energy+-+Free+Energy
Cute site - the Lutec scam is on the front page. That has been debunked here several times. Try the search box next time.
Got anything new to show?
Believe me I AM here...and I AM set.
it is your country that's going down...
it is coming... awakening is every where,
good luck.
Quote from: shablol on December 23, 2008, 05:55:07 AM
it is your country that's going down...
And which country would that be?
Musta forgot you were from mars. ;D
Regards...
QuoteMusta forgot you were from mars.
;D
Seriously. It doesn't make sense to debunk one another. Everybody has the right for his own truth. WizardofMars believes the Ralph Ring-Carr story is a scam, and he has every right to state this.
Unfortunately not too many things are known about Carr, so we probably never will be able to find evidence for the story.
So it's up to everybody for himself to decide what he believes in or not.
I personally am grateful, that people do have different opinions, and are also able to contribute them. For only like that we are able to get a complete picture.
Wish you all a Merry Christmas!
Hi all,
like to add my two cents here :
1) channeling method for technology-transfer was first used in germany in the 1918 by the secret Thule-socienty founded by a person named Graf von Sebottendorf. More prominet members of this secret socienty : Adolf Hitler and Rudolf Steiner etc and a psychic rumanian woman who served as a chanel.
I anyone believes that this is a valuable method for manifesting an advanced propulsion-technolgy without basic scientific knowledge by using a medium I would give you the advice to look for the results so far.
2) Written in this Magentic-Theory-book there is one outstanding sentence which points at the quality of this basic knowledge "This technology will work after a pole shift"
Question : how many poles does a magnet have ? Just reverse the polarity of the magnetic setup and this technique should work right now.
I am amazed how gullible some people are.
For our german-speaking members go for a brief decription of the thule-society here :
http://www.stattweb.de/baseportal/ArchivDetail&db=Archiv&Id=25 (http://www.stattweb.de/baseportal/ArchivDetail&db=Archiv&Id=25)
The name is still in use today among the neoNazis.
Regards
Kator01
Quote from: Kator01 on December 24, 2008, 12:20:33 PM
1) channeling method for technology-transfer was first used in germany in the 1918 by the secret Thule-socienty founded by a person named Graf von Sebottendorf. More prominet members of this secret socienty : Adolf Hitler and Rudolf Steiner etc and a psychic rumanian woman who served as a chanel.
I anyone believes that this is a valuable method for manifesting an advanced propulsion-technolgy without basic scientific knowledge by using a medium I would give you the advice to look for the results so far.
Please post one credible source for this nonsense. I read Brenna's Occult Reich in the 70's. It was only later I found out JH Brennan was a mystic and the claims have only gotten more outrageous since then with the bogus 'Nazi Bell'. Hitler publicly rejected mystical cults in Mein Kampf and many other speeches.
Truth can be found no matter how muddy the water...turning off the water is analogous to 'throwing the baby out with the bath water'.
It is much wiser to filter the water.
Regards...
Hi wizardofmars,
You should be careful in classifying this as bogus. Looks as if there is something wrong in this thread here.
Unfortunately I do only have information in german language and one of the source is the historian G.Edward Griffin. I am a german and have found this info reliable because there was another swiss female author who had done extensive research on this. I stumbled on this 10 years ago. Could be I have it savde in one of my old computer but it also is written in german language.
Maybe you can read the source here. The german nazi-gang had a very mystical background especially Himmler was a fanatic in this thule-cult. Of course Hilter would reject his participation in the public as this was years before he gained power.
Of cource you will find in the wickipedia only a fraction of this and the the American, Britisch and French Allies did destroy much of this historical info but some parts could be saved.This Thuile-society was developing in the turbulent times of 1917 after WW 1. Hilter was a nobody at this time.
This paper here deals with the preparation for WW2 and its financiers :
http://209.85.129.132/search?q=cache:l5mYXoe1u3sJ:www.computerbase.de/forum/attachment.php%3Fattachmentid%3D3595%26d%3D1048104537+Graf+von+Sebottendorf&hl=de&ct=clnk&cd=19&gl=de&lr=lang_de (http://209.85.129.132/search?q=cache:l5mYXoe1u3sJ:www.computerbase.de/forum/attachment.php%3Fattachmentid%3D3595%26d%3D1048104537+Graf+von+Sebottendorf&hl=de&ct=clnk&cd=19&gl=de&lr=lang_de)
Scroll down to the paragraph and use google-translation:
"ADOLF SCHICKLGRUBER UND DIE THULE-GESELLSCHAFT"
ADOLF SCHICKLGRUBER was Hilter true name.
Here you can read about Freiher Graf of Sebottendorf and the psychic medium MARIA ORSITSCH (Orsic).
It is all well documented.
List of members :
1. Freiherr Rudolf von Sebottendorf, Ordenshochmeister
2. Guido von List, Ordensmeister
3. Jörg Lanz von Liebenfels, Ordensmeister
4. Adolf Hitler, Führer, Reichskanzler und Oberster SS-Führer
5. Rudolf Hess, Stellvertreter des Führers und SS- Obergruppenführer
6. Hermann Göring, Reichsmarschall und SS-Obergruppenführer
7. Heinrich Himmler, Reichsführer SS und Reichsminister
8. Alfred Rosenberg, Reichsminister und NS-Reichsleiter
9. Hans Frank, Dr. Dr. h. c., NS-Reichsleiter und Generalgouverneur in Polen
10. Julius Streicher, SA-Obergruppenführer und Gauleiter von Franken
11. Karl Haushofer, Prof Dr., Generalmajor a.D.
12. Gottfried Feder, Prof Dr., Staatssekretär a.D.
13. Dietrich Eckart, Chefredakteur des »Völkischen Beobachters«
14. Bernhard Stempfle, Hitlers
Wickipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thule_Society (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thule_Society)
and here munich historical english info because the Thule-Member had their gathering in the hotel Vierjahreszeiten in munich:
http://www.muenchen.de/Stadtleben/Kultur_Unterhaltung/kulturreferat/museen/nsdokumentationszentrum/253740/Antisemitism_rightwingextremism.html (http://www.muenchen.de/Stadtleben/Kultur_Unterhaltung/kulturreferat/museen/nsdokumentationszentrum/253740/Antisemitism_rightwingextremism.html)
Regards
Kator01
Quote from: Kator01 on December 24, 2008, 07:49:08 PM
Hi wizardofmars,
You should be careful in classifying this as bogus. Looks as if there is something wrong in this thread here.
Unfortunately I do only have information in german language and one of the source is the historian G.Edward Griffin.
Let's stop right there.
Griffin is not a historian . He's a promoter of many fanciful theories, and this is just one of them.
Quote from: WikipediaG. Edward Griffin (born November 7, 1931) is an American film producer, author, and political lecturer.[1] Starting as a child actor, he became a radio station manager before age 20. After writing for the 1968 Wallace campaign, he began a career of producing documentaries and books on controversial topics like cancer, Noah's ark, and the Federal Reserve, as well as on right-libertarian theories of the U.S. Supreme Court, terrorism, subversion, and foreign policy. Since the 1970s, Griffin has promoted Laetrile as a killer of cancer cells, a view accepted by few scientists.[2][3] He has also promoted the Durupınar site as hosting the original Noah's ark, though opposed by some Creationists and many scientists. He strongly opposes the Federal Reserve, charging it with being a banking cartel and an instrument of war and totalitarianism.[4] In 2002, Griffin founded the individualist network Freedom Force International.
So what are your other sources of info beyond Griffin?
Helo,
since this is offtopic here this will my last response :
Reliable info from Willy Ley, a German rocket engineer.
If I have time I will try to find it in german language.
It is up to you to find out about the Pseudesience in Naziland"
here :
http://www.angelfire.com/ut/branton/miscellabyrinth.html (http://www.angelfire.com/ut/branton/miscellabyrinth.html)
Maria Orsitch :
http://de.metapedia.org/wiki/Maria_Orsitsch (http://de.metapedia.org/wiki/Maria_Orsitsch)
You have to use a translation-tool
I do not chase pipe-dreams.
By the way, you will find almost anything which Des Griffin has written about the secret societies and the FED, has become true.
If you do not believe it, please see here :
http://www.enterprisecorruption.com/ (http://www.enterprisecorruption.com/)
Scroll down and read the Enrons before and after Christ and watch this website on a daily basis.
I will give no further comments.
Find out the truth yourself
Regards
Kator01
Ok i assume that you all know the lifters project at http://jnaudin.free.fr/lifters/main.htm
Also try a coil of 6 inch 250 turns of 30 gauge copper wire on the 120 volt main and it will lift.
At your own risk .
The proof http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qljY-YfFaPc&feature=related , at 1min22
Now stop arguing and get working.
Dear MK1,
this is nothing more than eddy-currents generated by the ac-driven coil in the aluminium-plate. these eddy-currents
generate a magnetic field opposing the magnetic field of the coil.
This is the type of desinformation which can only deceive electronically non-educated people.
Regards
Kator01
@ kator01
If that is electronically non-educated, i must say its more interesting then reading educated people disbelief and lack of imagination,
If education leads to knowing all so be it. And yes asymmetric caps and eddy current are not the same technology as discussed, but do get of the ground.
I saw a ufo as a kid and they are as real as you and me , Yes they must be from other galaxies , because humans are to dumb to try such a thing , I still prefer thinking we are smart enough to try.How are discoveries made if if educated people know all ?
Maybe because of mistakes result of uneducated guess.
In the definition of education there is nothing about teaching to be truth.
Thank for the comment, keep the good work!
Hey MK1,
now we share the same experience. I saw a flying disk way back in 1958 or 1960. The reason I can not exacly pinpoint the date is, that in 2004 when I was 55 I suddenly remembered this situation : I was walking along the
street looking upward in the clear blue sky and saw this silver disk moving by in a silent mode.
This picture was hidedn in my memory for more 46 years.
But, Mk1, I feel obliged to share the knowledge I know even it is not comfortable. How can we understand
this propulsion-technique if we have not understood gravity ?
Regards
Kator01
@ Kator01
The so called laws of gravity are like the bible,a response for people for that don't dare answer it them self.
But the system is coming out the knowledge , velocity and torque are part of the the matrix and ignored on most part.
We do have some part of it, but experimentation and crazy idea create technology, and can't be restricted by some one view, even if he took a apple to the head, some centuries ago.The laws is strong and cant be taken to court for revision? Is that a type of system i want to be part of lol. Not understanding dose not mean wrong or we should really not try,unexplained dose not mean false.We live a 1950 star trek technology world, we would have flying space going cars in it was permitted. Those laws are inverted, any system need to be also working in its mirror state before determining which one is the cause or the effect.
About remembering we tend to forget the truth and unexplained things, or others explanation of phenomenon.
It happened to me all the time all of use. We all wait for some help,Jesus or Obama and Co,aren't going to help anyone we need to help our self in all the sense of the word.Even the spell check considers Obama as wrong. ;D
Really will the next generations have it better ?
The standards in school is going down each years since the 1800.
Tesla invented our world not last week.
Knowing the game of chess doesn't exactly qualify you for a win .
Quote from: Kator01 on December 27, 2008, 11:01:23 AM
since this is offtopic here this will my last response :
Reliable info from Willy Ley, a German rocket engineer.
Kator,
Before you run off, will you please concede that you posted incorrect info?
G.Edward Griffin is not a historian (as you claimed above) but is instead a film producer, author, and political lecturer. Source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._Edward_Griffin
And while we are at it - Willy Ley was a science writer and space advocate who also wrote science fiction. Source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willy_Ley
I can't find that Ley wrote much about the Nazi occult conspiracy nonsense. The only article he did write in the 1920's clearly calls it a pseudoscience which is hardly surprising. The guy's been dead for nearly 50 years, before the Nazi occult meme really got going! He did write a book about sea serpents, yeti's and unicorns though - does that count?
Quote from: wizardofmars on December 29, 2008, 01:22:23 AM
Kator,
Before you run off, will you please concede that you posted incorrect info?
G.Edward Griffin is not a historian (as you claimed above) but is instead a film producer, author, and political lecturer. Source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._Edward_Griffin
And while we are at it - Willy Ley was a science writer and space advocate who also wrote science fiction. Source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willy_Ley
I can't find that Ley wrote much about the Nazi occult conspiracy nonsense. The only article he did write in the 1920's clearly calls it a pseudoscience which is hardly surprising. The guy's been dead for nearly 50 years, before the Nazi occult meme really got going! He did write a book about sea serpents, yeti's and unicorns though - does that count?
I sugget you read this nonsense before you think your history is straight. Or google German fly trap.
--giantkiller.
Quote from: wizardofmars on December 21, 2008, 06:11:41 PM
Carr's book 'Dimensions of Mystery' is stream of consciousness religious rambling with almost zero scientific content. How anyone believes this guy actually built a flying saucer is the only mystery.
I am assuming you missed the statement that the information was hidden and meant to be decoded.
Well, it has been decoded now and you can read the document here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/82548833/Otis-Carr-OTC-X1-Complete-Part-3-Dimensions-Of-Mystery-Schematics
There are 2 earlier parts as well that contain brochures and Carr's original research.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/82541400/Otis-Carr-OTC-X1-Complete-Part-1-Atoms-For-Peace
http://www.scribd.com/doc/82545038/Otis-Carr-OTC-X1-Complete-Part-2-Original-OTC-X1-research-material
:)
kristjan Thanks for posting this!