Hi everyone,
I am posting on behalf of John Urbanowski Youtube user name: johncarl43447
I believe he has found a radiant self charging battery oscillator circuit and I feel he needs my help in sharing his findings.
I have been following his work for the past 2 months and his new oscillator circuit is quite remarkable and deserves our attention.
Today we talked on the phone for over one hour and he is willing to share as much as he can or knows. His electronic knowledge is limited just like mine is but that should not be a problem.
What is so remarkable in his circuit is the feed batteries are the same as his charge batteries :o He has 2 12 volt lead acid batteries in series but I think one of the reasons he is able to do this is maybe because one of the battery has a taps at every cell. In the USA they call those Antique batteries. The other remarkable thing is, no matter the load or how long it is connected the battery voltage does not go down if the oscillator is in operation.
See his video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8lui9wRF3g
Today as we were talking he told me that last night he was testing using his Antique battery to feed the 14v to the main coil and 20v to relay but routed the BEMF leads to 2 (non Antique style) 12v batteries in series to see if he could get the same effect. He confirmed that it worked the same and he even had a 10 amp load on one 12v side of one battery and the voltage on that battery went from 12.25 to 12.22 after one hour.
I asked him to make a hand drawing of his main circuit he used in the video and it is below. One thing to note is he has 2 extra coils he added to tone the circuit which are not in the schematic. We will give the details on these but the circuit should give the general effect as per schematic.
If we could have a volunteer to make a clean schematic with the details please let me know.
His main coil is on a plastic spool which has a 1 inch core and is 3.5 inch long and coil is about 3 inches in diameter. He used a full roll of Radio Shack green enamel mag wire which is 75 feet of 26 gauge as transistor relay trigger coil and wound that first and then over top that is 1,000 feet of 19 gauge mag wire. He filled the 1 inch core of the coil with strips of plastic coated wire used construction to tie metal re-bar together. He has a diode to collect BEMF on the main coil and also relay coil. The relay coil is an automotive 30 amp to which he opened and uses a set screw to tune the pulse. He also has a ceramic magnet to help tuning. The transistor he is using is model SC1768. Please also note 2 pots he uses also to tune his trigger coil. A 1uf microwave oven capacitor is used to smooth the spark at the relay and the ground of that capacitor should go to the - (minus) of the marine battery. He did not draw it since he would of had to jump over 3 wires and though it would look confusing.
Thank you all for looking and your help.
Luc
Quote from: gotoluc on September 22, 2008, 05:45:47 PM
Luc
It looks interesting .
I take it that it has not been replicated yet
The part I find most interesting is about it charging more if the load is larger.
I can't see how it could do that . Unless one of the coils has the oscillation voltage set at a particular voltage.
gary
User name: Sephiroth of the Energetic Forum has made a quick Schematic.
Thanks Sephiroth
Luc
Edit: Please note above I said his coil is 1,000 feet and should be 1,000 turns
Quote from: resonanceman on September 22, 2008, 08:05:08 PM
Luc
It looks interesting .
I take it that it has not been replicated yet
The part I find most interesting is about it charging more if the load is larger.
I can't see how it could do that . Unless one of the coils has the oscillation voltage set at a particular voltage.
gary
Hi Gary,
Thanks for looking,
No replication yet!... just started to share this. I did ask John if he could build a second unit and see if he can replicate his own work, as we know this is the most important part. He has agreed but I think he may have limited income or access to supplies or both, as he is on disability at this time.
I hope someone here has the ability to put this together and test.
Luc
@gotoluc,
Attached is a cleaned up version of the circuit.
The unknowns is:
Transistor type.
Diode type.
Coil trigger turns and wire type.
Coils polarity.
Coil core (if any).
Capacitor voltage rating.
Relay type (double relay?)
Relay voltage.
Pot meter wattage.
Groundloop.
Hi Groundloop,
would you mind checking the following:
In the hand-made drawing uploaded by gotoluc in his first post (and also in Sephiroth's drawing) the not-grounded leg of the 1uF capacitor goes directly to one of the relay contacts (this is ok in your drawing) then goes also directly to the diode's anode and not to its cathode.
It comes from this that the relay contacts discharge the 1uF any time the relay is on... but hopefully the 1uF does a good service during the relay off time periodes.
Re on the transistor type: gotoluc included a 2SC1768 transistor type in his first post.
Also some info on the coil core is there (probably PVC insulated iron wire pieces bunched into the coil former)
Also some wire gauges are mentioned.
Thanks
Gyula
Hi All,
the 2SC1768 is a discontinued type, though it is still available from some retailer. It is a 200V, 5A, high current gain NPN transistor
Here are some data on it from here http://www.datasheetarchive.com/data/2SC1768.html
2SC1768
Si NPN Power BJT
V(BR)CEO (V)=150
V(BR)CBO (V)=200
I(C) Abs.(A) Collector Current=5.0
Absolute Max. Power Diss. (W)=50
I(CBO) Max. (A)=1.0m
h(FE) Min. Static Current Gain=400
h(FE) Max. Current gain.=3.0k
@I(C) (A) (Test Condition)=1.0
@V(CE) (V) (Test Condition)=4.0
f(T) Min. (Hz) Transition Freq=15M
Package=TO-3
A good substitue seems to be 2SD1090, see here http://www.alldatasheet.com/view.jsp?Searchword=2SD1090
its package which is different.
rgds, Gyula
@gyulasun,
I have updated the circuit drawing. There is still issues. I think the relay is closed
in one position when the transistor does not control the relay on. It must be so
because the oscillation will newer start if the relay is open in the middle.
Also, the capacitor seems wrong in this circuit. It will be shorted out every time
the relay closes.
Any thoughts?
Groundloop.
Hi Groundloop,
Thanks for the correction, though I don't think it is finished either because gotoluc wrote in his first post:
I asked him to make a hand drawing of his main circuit he used in the video and it is below. One thing to note is he has 2 extra coils he added to tone the circuit which are not in the schematic. We will give the details on these but the circuit should give the general effect as per schematic. so some more corrections will surely be needed when we learn about every detail.
Yes, I agree the oscillator cannot start when the battery voltage is present on the transistor... John Urbanowski in his video starts the oscillator by saying it but not showing what he does, probably he pushes down by hand the armature of the relay to close the normally open contacts for a moment...
Re on the closing of the 1uF cap: yes I already mentioned this, it is strange he dissipates the energy stored in the capacitor in the contact areas of the relay... When the relay is off, this capacitor charges up to the battery voltage of 14V and the relay does two things when switched on: it discharges this capacitor via its closing contacts and at the same time connects L1 (1000 turn coil) to also the 14V battery voltage. Now when the relay gets off again, the current is disrupted in L1 and the part of flyback pulse should go to the 1uF cap and also part of flyback pulse goes to the 24V battery as charge current via the diode. The difference between the flyback peak and the 14V is that is able to charge whenever it is >24V... Then this repeats as the oscillator works. Please comment if think otherwise.
rgds, Gyula
Quote from: Groundloop on September 23, 2008, 09:34:38 AM
@gyulasun,
I have updated the circuit drawing. There is still issues. I think the relay is closed
in one position when the transistor does not control the relay on. It must be so
because the oscillation will newer start if the relay is open in the middle.
Also, the capacitor seems wrong in this circuit. It will be shorted out every time
the relay closes.
Any thoughts?
Groundloop.
Hallo Groundloop,
thank you once again for your great help here ;)
I think he is using only one side of the relay to switch! I will confirm with him today to see if it is the NO or NC side he uses. I will ask about the capacitor position and also confirm which side the pots are on.
Here is most of the information you asked for main coil, core material, transistor, relay and Capacitor
The main coil is wound on a (empty) plastic wire spool he had. It has a 1" = 25.4 millimeters core opening (hole) and it is 3.5" = 88.9 millimeters long and coil is about 3" = 76.2 millimeters in diameter once finished winding. His trigger coil is wound first on the spool with 26 gauge mag wire which is 75' = 22.86 meters long. The roll is available from Radio Shack in a set of 3 assorted rolls, it is the green roll he used. Then wound over top is 1,000 turns of 19 gauge mag wire. The 1 inch core opening of the spool is filled with cut strips of plastic coated Iron wire used construction to tie metal re-bar together. The transistor is model SC1768. The relay is an automotive 30 amp to which he opened and uses a set screw to tune the pulse. He also has a ceramic magnet to help tuning. The capacitor is 1uf microwave oven capacitor which are usually rated at 2,500 vac.
Thank you.
Luc
Quote from: gyulasun on September 23, 2008, 06:47:36 AM
Hi All,
the 2SC1768 is a discontinued type, though it is still available from some retailer. It is a 200V, 5A, high current gain NPN transistor
Here are some data on it from here http://www.datasheetarchive.com/data/2SC1768.html
2SC1768
Si NPN Power BJT
V(BR)CEO (V)=150
V(BR)CBO (V)=200
I(C) Abs.(A) Collector Current=5.0
Absolute Max. Power Diss. (W)=50
I(CBO) Max. (A)=1.0m
h(FE) Min. Static Current Gain=400
h(FE) Max. Current gain.=3.0k
@I(C) (A) (Test Condition)=1.0
@V(CE) (V) (Test Condition)=4.0
f(T) Min. (Hz) Transition Freq=15M
Package=TO-3
A good substitue seems to be 2SD1090, see here http://www.alldatasheet.com/view.jsp?Searchword=2SD1090
its package which is different.
rgds, Gyula
Thank you Gyula for the research on the transistor information and also finding a substitute.
Luc
When we talk about wire guage, do we mean SWG[ standard wire guage, used in the UK] or AWG { American wire guage] ? Swg has largely been replaced by wire diameter in millimetres. Note that in all systems, the diameter does not include the enamel insulation.
Quote from: neptune on September 23, 2008, 01:25:06 PM
When we talk about wire guage, do we mean SWG[ standard wire guage, used in the UK] or AWG { American wire guage] ? Swg has largely been replaced by wire diameter in millimetres. Note that in all systems, the diameter does not include the enamel insulation.
Hi neptune,
it is AWG
Luc
@gotoluc
Hi and good work with your friend. I do not want to put a damper on this idea but there is one main consideration of this whole circuit and that is he is using a 12vdc deep cycle marine battery in series with another 12vdc multi-celled battery. Total amperage availble is not known. But I would easily guesss it to be in the 600-800 ampere/hour range easy.
And from the consumption devices, from what I can tell, it is like hiring a fly to do a kamakasi flight onto the back of an elephant. It won't feel a thing.
What I am trying to say is the only way you can actually see something is to use smaller batteries so the effects of consumption can be measured in a more realistic time frame. The whole system would have to be scaled down to a more logical level.
Now if the circuit was drawing 40 amps at 24 volts, and the voltage off the batteries did not go down, this in my view would be something out of the ordinary. But so far,what I can understand is very normal for such high power batteries.
I have tried in the past running a 3hp motor in an RV loop with two 12 volts marine batteries and even then voltage went down about .1 volts every 10 minutes. The voltage draw was substantial enough to effect the batteries and show some loss in a normal time setting.
So what I am wondering is can this same experimentation be done with smaller 12 volts batteries, like in the 4 to 7 amp range so that if there are changes, they can be seen more quickly.
Quote from: wattsup on September 23, 2008, 03:47:22 PM
@gotoluc
Hi and good work with your friend. I do not want to put a damper on this idea but there is one main consideration of this whole circuit and that is he is using a 12vdc deep cycle marine battery in series with another 12vdc multi-celled battery. Total amperage availble is not known. But I would easily guesss it to be in the 600-800 ampere/hour range easy.
And from the consumption devices, from what I can tell, it is like hiring a fly to do a kamakasi flight onto the back of an elephant. It won't feel a thing.
What I am trying to say is the only way you can actually see something is to use smaller batteries so the effects of consumption can be measured in a more realistic time frame. The whole system would have to be scaled down to a more logical level.
Now if the circuit was drawing 40 amps at 24 volts, and the voltage off the batteries did not go down, this in my view would be something out of the ordinary. But so far,what I can understand is very normal for such high power batteries.
I have tried in the past running a 3hp motor in an RV loop with two 12 volts marine batteries and even then voltage went down about .1 volts every 10 minutes. The voltage draw was substantial enough to effect the batteries and show some loss in a normal time setting.
So what I am wondering is can this same experimentation be done with smaller 12 volts batteries, like in the 4 to 7 amp range so that if there are changes, they can be seen more quickly.
Hi wattsup, thanks for excellent and valid point! You are on the right track. Below are a copy of posts from the Energetic Forum. I will ask John U. to do the test in purple below.
Luc
Here is a recomendation from Peter Lindemann from the Energetic Forum:
The proper procedure is to charge the batteries UP FULL and then let them settle to the 12.6 volt level. Then discharge the battery with the headlamp to a LOADED voltage of 11.5 volts. After turn off of the system, the battery should recover to above 12.1 volts. Log both the length of time needed for the discharge and the current used by the lamp. Then charge the battery back up to full and repeat the procedure of running the headlamp and the charger simultaneously, logging the data again.
My prediction is that the second procedure will drain the battery faster. Unfortunately, there are many variables in this situation that are impossible to determine, such as the "exact charge state" of the batteries under test. The size of the batteries he is using requires a testing procedure that could take MONTHS to determine the efficiency of the system properly. One 6 hour run digging deep into the bottom reserves of a huge battery cannot produce any useful data.
Sorry,
PeterHere is my reply: Thank you again Peter for your reply and the test suggestion procedures needed here. This makes sense, I will ask him to do to a fix load discharge test without the oscillator and calculate the time it takes for the loaded battery to get down to 11.5 volts. After a recharge he will retest with the same load but now with the oscillator working.
Something to note is that his load tests were at 12v so he was only loading one battery (marine) so one should not conclude that the power of 2 batteries are involve.
Luc
Peter is correct about the difficulty or impossibility of charging the battery at the same time as draining, I believe that was why I was trying it .My only intentions here are to share my findings because they seem quite spectacular to me and worth investigating .I told Luc when I spoke on the phone the antique battery seemed weaker under load than the marine battery this accounts for some of the illusion of over unity , but today I seperated my circuit to a circuit driving set of batteries only ,and a load and recharge set of batteries. I also now am able to power my circuit from 24v to the main coil ,and 24v for the relay , two bulbs are placed in parallel, in series in the line powering the main coil and limiting current .the bulbs also oscillate and improved output to recharge batteries .All 4 batteries are of the same kind now ,I think they are 100 amp hour batteries each ,they are sealed lead acid batteries .I also bought a capacitor metalized film capacitor 1.0uf 250volt 250wvdc part number 272-1055 and replaced the microwave capacitor.This capacitor improved things ,it is faster acting and allows to sustain a higher frequency . My large metal workbench also vibrates or rings a lot while running . it becomes quite loud at times , when I place a load on the load and charge set of batteries ,I connect it at 12v on the first battery in the second set of batteries of 24volts in series.The charging wires are the two wires recieving the spikes from the relay and main coil.They go to the second battery at 24volts in the charging and load set. The oscillating circuit is now only using .370 milliamps at 24v and has a voltage drop of .01 volts per hour the bulbs made the circuit much more efficient and it oscillates stronger.I was able to duplicate a load test of 10 amps at 12volts for ten minutes,I was able to bring the set of batteries to the condition they started at in 45 minutes and the oscillator ran the whole time and the oscillator set of batteries dropped .01 volts. I have been able to replace what I have used from the load batteries and it takes very little energy to drive the circuit.Of the .370 milliamps used the relay uses .070 milliamps ,.300milliamps to the main coil . I will do more extensive testing, larger loads for longer period and much larger voltage drops , and if someone would like to come to Ohio to observe this ,they are welcome, Please try this circuit and at least give it a chance before you discredit it in your mind . I think everyone in the forum has probably hoped for quite a long time to be able to receive this type of radiant energy .It is quite possible this is not as efficient as I believe it is ,but I will continue to search for the answers for I believe this is possible.Now that I have used 4 alike twelve volt batteries someone can try to replicate much easier.also the Idea of using smaller batteries will confirm results much faster. I will work on drawing my new circuit but it is basically the same except now a charge wire goes to a different set of batteries and both sets are connected at ground.And instead of powering at different voltages now we power from 24v with the bulbs for resistance.The bulbs are a 20watt 125v microwave bulb and also a 75 watt flood lite 120volts.
Quote from: John Urbanowski on September 24, 2008, 01:47:52 AM
Peter is correct about the difficulty or impossibility of charging the battery at the same time as draining, I believe that was why I was trying it .My only intentions here are to share my findings because they seem quite spectacular to me and worth investigating .I told Luc when I spoke on the phone the antique battery seemed weaker under load than the marine battery this accounts for some of the illusion of over unity , but today I seperated my circuit to a circuit driving set of batteries only ,and a load and recharge set of batteries. I also now am able to power my circuit from 24v to the main coil ,and 24v for the relay , two bulbs are placed in parallel, in series in the line powering the main coil and limiting current .the bulbs also oscillate and improved output to recharge batteries .All 4 batteries are of the same kind now ,I think they are 100 amp hour batteries each ,they are sealed lead acid batteries .I also bought a capacitor metalized film capacitor 1.0uf 250volt 250wvdc part number 272-1055 and replaced the microwave capacitor.This capacitor improved things ,it is faster acting and allows to sustain a higher frequency . My large metal workbench also vibrates or rings a lot while running . it becomes quite loud at times , when I place a load on the load and charge set of batteries ,I connect it at 12v on the first battery in the second set of batteries of 24volts in series.The charging wires are the two wires recieving the spikes from the relay and main coil.They go to the second battery at 24volts in the charging and load set. The oscillating circuit is now only using .370 milliamps at 24v and has a voltage drop of .01 volts per hour the bulbs made the circuit much more efficient and it oscillates stronger.I was able to duplicate a load test of 10 amps at 12volts for ten minutes,I was able to bring the set of batteries to the condition they started at in 45 minutes and the oscillator ran the whole time and the oscillator set of batteries dropped .01 volts. I have been able to replace what I have used from the load batteries and it takes very little energy to drive the circuit.Of the .370 milliamps used the relay uses .070 milliamps ,.300milliamps to the main coil . I will do more extensive testing, larger loads for longer period and much larger voltage drops , and if someone would like to come to Ohio to observe this ,they are welcome, Please try this circuit and at least give it a chance before you discredit it in your mind . I think everyone in the forum has probably hoped for quite a long time to be able to receive this type of radiant energy .It is quite possible this is not as efficient as I believe it is ,but I will continue to search for the answers for I believe this is possible.Now that I have used 4 alike twelve volt batteries someone can try to replicate much easier.also the Idea of using smaller batteries will confirm results much faster. I will work on drawing my new circuit but it is basically the same except now a charge wire goes to a different set of batteries and both sets are connected at ground.And instead of powering at different voltages now we power from 24v with the bulbs for resistance.The bulbs are a 20watt 125v microwave bulb and also a 75 watt flood lite 120volts.
Thank you John for posting your new results using 4 batteries. This is a better approach and also makes it easier for replicators. I'm also glad it is giving you better results.
If you can afford to spend about $70. you can get 4 12v 9A/Hr. sealed led acid batteries (including delivery) from here: http://cgi.ebay.com/12V-7ah-12Volt-7amp-hour-SLA-Sealed-Lead-Acid-Battery_W0QQitemZ290261485794QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item290261485794&_trkparms=39%3A1
Using these you will be able to do the same tests but get much faster results as they are about 10% of the capacity of the batteries you mention above.
One small note. If you are quoting in milliamps you should not use the
. before your digits like
.370 milliamp unless you are saying it is less than 1 milliamp. Just write it as 370 milliamp or it is
.370 amps
Keep us updated with your tests and please don't let anything discourage you as this is important research work.
Thanks for sharing
Luc
@gotoluc and @JU
Well I am glad my post was not taken in the wrong way, such as bullying, etc. I am also glad Peter L came to the same, well not conclusion, but more observation.
This is one of the hardest things to determine or prove to others when you have such high capacity batteries involved. I am not saying this is not possible. I have been down the battery road before and just recently on the Tesla Project thread had noticed some errors in what I was doing, after crying wolf. So this happens to all of us at one time or another, or two times or another, or three. Verification is the only way to know.
I would like to know from @JU the following;
- how brightly lit are the two bulbs and where are they connected to the circuit.
- what is the ohmage of the 1000 turns coil and the trigger coil.
- there is a wire going from the 24v positive to the negative of the relay coil. There is a small square box in that line. Is that a diode pointing towards the battery?
I have many 12vdc 7ah batteries and may decide to replicate (or a variation thereof lol). Just got back from my regular EE store and they did not have the SC1768 so I have to look for an equivalent.
the bulbs glow dim not brightly ,they are in line powering the main coil I dont have the knowledge to measure the ohms I believe you are talking about the diode in line to the battery from relay spike,if so the answer is yes. I will have to read how to measure the ohms with my meter.