Greetings All
I will be posting the Buoyancy device and wheel that I have designed later today. I just have to have time to clean up my drawings after I get back from work. I let a secret out of the bag on another string(due to hinting) of bubbles (it is hard to keep some secrets) ::) Then I will tell how to make other buoyancy devices work for those who have them. I will also build the device step by step on this string to help others to build there own.
Mr. Hammer,
I can’t wait for this major release, I hope you come back from work soon.
LOL
Greetings All
I am publishing this paper under copyright. Feel free to use the information to build any device you wish. When it comes to commercial exploitation I reserve whatever rights are given to my by law.
Here is the design of the, Anti-buoyancy bubble tube system GP version 1 and version 2
These system use air bubbles to reduce the buoyancy of the descending side of a buoyancy type device for over unity. weighted floats are preferred.
This is quite an interesting idea. I was watching a special on the bermuda triangle, and they did a test similar to this where they put bubbles under an "unsinkable boat" and it sank due to the density of water/bubbles. I'm assuming this is the same principle. What a great idea, really thinking out of the box.
My question is, do you think the amount of energy gained will be enough to put that many bubbles in the tube? It seems like it would take a lot of energy to put that much air in the tube. I guess time will tell.
peace
Mark
markh
That was the original concern, but as a blacksmith and once also a vacuum cleaner repairman I have allot of experience with blowers. It will just have to be spun by hand to get it started. Then just add water and parts when needed from any possible breakdown. Also the more floats the more energy. The same air will work most of the tube. Now it will be slow but a step by step will be coming to build one.
I can't wait to see it. I guess the longer the tube, and the more floats you have, the more "work" you will get out of each bubble that you put into the tube. brilliant. I'll be building this one.
peace
mark
Nice one Alan,
I look forward to seeing a prototype built. Shouldn't take you long to do :-)
D
I hate to burst your bubble but even a first grader knows it will take as much energy to pump the air down as you get back.
This is the type of machine that is easy to explain away. My machine is not.
Quote from: brian334 on October 12, 2008, 07:19:44 AM
I hate to burst your bubble but even a first grader knows it will take as much energy to pump the air down as you get back.
This is the type of machine that is easy to explain away. My machine is not.
LMAO Brian!
Well you are going to have to build yours and show us, and I will build mine. Mine is allot easier to build. Oh yes in this contest you are not allow to use bubbles, for that is what mine is based on. LOL
For those who are going to build this one. I will be posting some specs on the bubble tube and floats.
Why not bring the bubbles in, from below the tank via a syphon
Hi Alan,
interesting idea.
But you have to think about the hydrostatic pressure of water,
which depends only on the deepth of the syphon in the water.
Maybe it will be beneficial to have there a very small needle shaped
syringe for the output of the air to get the bubbles into the water.
So you might need less air pressure to blow the air through the needle
valve or just can use air strokes to get some new bubbles out there.
Remember, it is very hard to press bubbles out of a tube, if the
tube is below 1 Meter water deepth.
Try it yourself.
Take a plastic hose, fill your bathtube with water full in height,
so you have at least 0.5 Meters height of water in there and
put the hose to the ground of the bathtube and then blow
with your mouth air into the hose to get it out at the bottom
of the bathtube.
It will be really hard to get the air out there down there...
As the water presses with all its hydrostatic water pressure against the
hose opening you have to overcome this water height weight pressure.
If you make the hole very small needle like you also the pressure
at the end is divided from the end surface area to the needle hole
area, so there is not much air pressure left at the needle hole, so
well, just try and see, how much pressure you need and how you
produce this air pressure the best possible way with the least amount of
energy...
Maybe somekind of air pressure pulsing with high pressure with
like a pulse wave 20 % on / 80 % off duty cycle air pressure would
help. So the 20 % on cycle will have very high pressure and will
allow the air go through the water pressure and the 80 % off cycle
will need no input energy.
So you need the same input energy as if you would only apply
1/4 of the air pressure ALL THE TIME ( 100 % ON )
and which would be too low to pump the air through the
needle valve.
So I guess the real question is, how do you best produce high air pressure stroke
intervals to get the air bubble out of the needle valve.
Good luck.
Regards, Stefan.
Greetings all here is some more detail of what I was doing.
Greetings Stefan
I think we are on the same page. As per the design above is a clarification of the air displacement using air jets. Yes the smaller holes will also help keep back flow of the water. I also under stand the pressure problems.
I was once maintenance manager for the state of Arkansas for Rainbow vacuum cleaners and did many water vacuum pull and push demonstrations. Until now I didn't realize how this knowledge from the past would help me design.
helmut
I noticed you drew in what I would call a water trap. This is a good idea and it would need a smaller jet at the bottom to blow out any back flow of the water. You would loose a small minimum of air but it would be worth the addition.
In the air line, once the water is out it will be easy to keep out, while running. Here is another drawing.
I will be working on the blower design to fit the needs of this system. These drawings will have to be more precise for construction, so they may take a bit of time.
The energy cost of pushing air into the air bubble tube is not the only obstacle.
Another obstacle, which is just as significant, is the energy required to move a float from the air bubble tube into solid water. This is where every flotation-based free energy plan fails. People assume that the float can just get sucked into the water with little effort, but it costs quite a bit of energy to push a float into the water, and after frictional losses, it always costs more energy to do this than can be gotten out of the rising float.
Quote from: AB Hammer on October 12, 2008, 11:06:31 AM
In the air line, once the water is out it will be easy to keep out, while running. Here is another drawing.
I will be working on the blower design to fit the needs of this system. These drawings will have to be more precise for construction, so they may take a bit of time.
This is exact the solution according to your presentation, that i wrote to Gustav Pese a view hours ago.
So lets hope, that it will work as assumed.
helmut
Quote from: utilitarian on October 12, 2008, 01:11:31 PM
The energy cost of pushing air into the air bubble tube is not the only obstacle.
Another obstacle, which is just as significant, is the energy required to move a float from the air bubble tube into solid water. This is where every flotation-based free energy plan fails. People assume that the float can just get sucked into the water with little effort, but it costs quite a bit of energy to push a float into the water, and after frictional losses, it always costs more energy to do this than can be gotten out of the rising float.
utilitarian
Very good point to look at. The answer to at least softening this problem is again the bubbles. As the bubbles from the tube are boiling up the float goes into a much less restrictive entry. It breaks up the surface of the water. Now for out of the bubbles to the lifting side, the bubbles have to go to at least the 5:30 position so the float is in the start of the lift zone. So the most important approach to achieve is to make sure we have the bubbles and if so. We will have a runner.
helmut
I am glad to see you like the idea and as well thinking in the same direction. It is now time for me to design the blower to make sure it can make the bubbles to run it's self.
G'day all,
Interesting idea Alan. I am not so sure that air bubbles would be the solution, for reasons Stefan outlined. There are other, perhaps better ways, to create bubbles. A heating element to boil the water and have steam bubbles rising might be one option, ultrasonic cavitation another. Both these systems are better equipped to deal with the hydrostatic pressure.
Perhaps worth exploring.
Hans von Lieven
Greeting Hans
Some of what sent me in this direction was looking at what buoyancy devices had the most trouble with. I also have known that the release of air under a boat can sink the boat. I have also witnessed it happen with a harbor tug between the current and mixed air/gasses and it went down. (no loss of life) I see this may be the only way to get this type to work. alternatives for the descending side should be looked at to lessen the resistance. If nothing else, I believe this opens up a new possible direction in this long search for perpetual motion.
cool idea!
Quote from: FreeEnergy on October 12, 2008, 07:15:26 PM
cool idea!
Well FreeEnergy;
You have been on me to post more of my ideas, and I am glad you like this one. But of course in this game there are no guarantees. I still have to make sure I have a good air source for the bubbles and keep it moving.
Quote from: AB Hammer on October 14, 2008, 01:56:58 PM
Well FreeEnergy;
You have been on me to post more of my ideas, and I am glad you like this one. But of course in this game there are no guarantees. I still have to make sure I have a good air source for the bubbles and keep it moving.
:)
the air source for the bubble(s) should probably be spread out evenly surrounding its object to sink with.
have you tried having the source of air bubbles begin at the top with its object to sink with? instead of at the bottom of a water tank?
Quote from: FreeEnergy on October 15, 2008, 03:50:04 AM
:)
the air source for the bubble(s) should probably be spread out evenly surrounding its object to sink with.
have you tried having the source of air bubbles begin at the top with its object to sink with? instead of at the bottom of a water tank?
FreeEnergy
The reason for the tube track is to keep the bubbles in a single location and since all bubbles go up they will boil the top of the water. Some people feel that the bubbles going up will cause a back flow to the weighted floats but the bubbles are only air escaping the water which means less buoyancy and in truth the water will stay down except for the splashing at the top. Over on Besslers Wheel murilo and I have been talking bubble types for best use.
DEAR AB,
WHAT ABOUT PUTTING THE BUBBLER ON THE FLOATER ITSELF AND HAVING ONE SIDE BUBBLE (SINK) WHILE THE OTHER SIDE FLOATS?
Thane
Why even have the floats? If you can push air bubbles underwater for so little energy, all you need to do is recapture the energy of the rising bubbles.
Quote from: CRANKYpants on October 15, 2008, 07:46:36 PM
DEAR AB,
WHAT ABOUT PUTTING THE BUBBLER ON THE FLOATER ITSELF AND HAVING ONE SIDE BUBBLE (SINK) WHILE THE OTHER SIDE FLOATS?
Thane
CRANKYpants
I don't think that will help for the need is to reduce the density of the water. Not to mention the all the extra lines that would be needed and you would loose allot.
Quote from: utilitarian on October 15, 2008, 08:41:12 PM
Why even have the floats? If you can push air bubbles underwater for so little energy, all you need to do is recapture the energy of the rising bubbles.
utilitarian
The system depends on the buoyancy of the ascending side to run the blower to create the bubbles. If successful it will be able to create more bubbles than needed to make the tube track full of bubbles making the anti-buoyancy effect. If this works it will run.
Alan,
hurry up and build. The suspense is killing me!
D
Quote from: utilitarian on October 15, 2008, 08:41:12 PM
Why even have the floats? If you can push air bubbles underwater for so little energy, all you need to do is recapture the energy of the rising bubbles.
Absolutely. That's the main point ....
Cheers!
Hi all,
Sorry for the crude design (printer is out of order)
I feel it'll all ballance out. >:(
Bummer !!
PS..My other Grav OU generator is near completion, one weel to go! ..,,,I hope all my rosaries weren't in vain. ;D
Quote from: DrWhat on October 16, 2008, 03:23:48 AM
Alan,
hurry up and build. The suspense is killing me!
D
D
Sorry, but due to another presentation of another invention that I am prepping for it may take 2 or 3 weeks before I have the time to play with it. So please be patient, my hands are full.
spinner
I repeat.
Quote from: AB Hammer on October 15, 2008, 09:06:20 PM
utilitarian
The system depends on the buoyancy of the ascending side to run the blower to create the bubbles. If successful it will be able to create more bubbles than needed to make the tube track full of bubbles making the anti-buoyancy effect. If this works it will run.
sevich
Yes your drawing is crude but most of mine are at first as well, until I clean them up. But take a closer look at what you have drawn. You are trying to make a bubble with a bubble so to speak. This is the part that science kicks our butts on, and why they say perpetual motion or over unity is impossible. Sorry but a good try. Even mine may not work, but it is a new approach.
AB Hammer
I am looking forward how you solve the bubble making that is needed.
At first glance my thought is:
The "float" is hollow and isn't really very "floaty" but closer to neutral.
The bubbles go into the hollow of the float to give additional lift.
Once the float enters the water again - it is filled with water - making it heavy and sinks.
So lift by air bubbles filling hollow float.
Drop by hollow float filling with water.
?
P.S. The thought of using heat that others recommended might be even better. A small heater at the bottom with a small nozzel sprays the heated water into the float cavity causing lift.....(because hot water rises)
At least this would overcome the water-pressure problem of getting bubbles to the bottom.
capthook
The floats are not hollow. The bubbles reduce the density of the water and enough bubbles will sink any buoyancy float allowing the buoyant side to lift the floats not in the bubble tube. The trick is to get enough bubbles to do the job from the lift from the buoyant side.
Yes - I realize they are not hollow. I was just giving my take on how you might change/improve the design.
Quote from: capthook on November 08, 2008, 05:14:57 PM
Yes - I realize they are not hollow. I was just giving my take on how you might change/improve the design.
capthook
Thanks for the suggestions, for in this game you have to consider each and any possibility as well as the negatives with some ideas. For instance the heat is not practicable for this project for it has to produce on its own. The heat will need another source for energy to run it, which would defeat the purpose. Here is what has to happen. The bubbles needs to take up 40+percent of the water in the tube. This will allow the weighted floats to go downward into the water with very little buoyancy when the non bubbled side has full buoyancy which should give the force needed to perpetuate. At least that is the plan for the first build. Any additions and changes will be taken after that.
Hay Jim
It would be hard to describe exactly how to make the blower for this project and due to timing it is a wait and see game. I have worked with vacuum cleaners, forge blowers and compressors and have even been able to increase the power of an old 1950s-60sD2 Rainbow to out perform the D4 from 1990. I use it for my shop vac while I was service manager From 1987 to 1991 for the main sore in Arkansas and taught most the people in the state how to work on them. Water test where common in the vacuum cleaner business for lift pressure as well as blowing out water in pipes.
The story is and always will be. Time will tell.
Hi everybody,
in the past I thought about buoyancy of air in water (like many others)
I think the key is to get a bucket of air from outside at the bottom of a tank full of water in this tank.
Does anybode out there knows a solution. It would help really.
Quote from: AlanA on November 12, 2008, 05:13:15 PM
Hi everybody,
in the past I thought about buoyancy of air in water (like many others)
I think the key is to get a bucket of air from outside at the bottom of a tank full of water in this tank.
Does anybode out there knows a solution. It would help really.
OUCH!!!
@ ABHammer
ouch???
This kind of reaction is a little bit to short for me.
AlanA
Sorry, but it is how you wrote (get a bucket of air ). This gives so many odd visions that "ouch" was all I could respond.
Pleas rephrase the wording of the idea. For the way you wrote it before, gives the idea as bad as someone running outside with a pan to collect light for the inside of a dark room effect. Thus a mental OUCH!
Good day,
Nice ide just please visit that link and see the buplishing date. Thanks
Good day,
Nice idea just please visit that link and read the buplishing date in it http://www.business-idea.com/ShowPosting.asp?ID=2290
Thanks
Farid
Quote from: Farid on November 14, 2008, 03:53:21 PM
Good day,
Nice idea just please visit that link and read the buplishing date in it http://www.business-idea.com/ShowPosting.asp?ID=2290
Thanks
Farid
Greetings Farid
I take it that the link is of your drawing? Nice drawing, that type I would call a bubble catcher. It is a bit different from mine for mine don't catch bubbles at all. Their are allot of buoyancy devices with similar looks that go back hundreds of years. Mine is the first to use the anti buoyancy approach with bubbles. The none bubble side has full buoyancy for the lift.
Have you built yours to give it a try? I build all mine that have a real possibility. So until I build it, I will not know if I can overcome what is needed to work. Just like with your drawing, you will not know until it is built weather it works or not.
By the way welcome to the forum, I enjoy talking to inventive minds. It brings life to the forum.
Dear AB Hammer
Thanks for share the talk about the idea. i have look at the first picture in your strig and finnaly i figer it out . your tanks are closed and full of air so its defrent from the idea that i posted here or in my other link Business-idea . i hope that we can work togather in makeing our hunger for reality become a fact . to know if we realy can make it or not
I thank you again and i apologize for any inconvenient i coused
Best wishes
Farid
(I also posted this on my string)
Thanks Farid
Here is a link for some youtube videos of some of my past projects. Not all of them for I have built around 30 and have designed around 400.
http://uk.youtube.com/user/ABthehammer
Talk to you later
The upward flow of the bubbles will create a vacuum in the tube that will have a pulling resistance on the floats as well as they will have a resistance on the curve when they flow against the floats.
Quote from: nightlife on November 15, 2008, 12:00:21 AM
The upward flow of the bubbles will create a vacuum in the tube that will have a pulling resistance on the floats as well as they will have a resistance on the curve when they flow against the floats.
Nightlife
Look closer at the tube, it is not solid there is still a gap for the devices to ride through. Water is dispersed from the tube by the bubbles. This makes it less buoyant so the weighted floats can go down easy so the lifting side has full buoyancy for the lift to create the rotation. The only true problem is can I get enough bubbles to make the process work with in the closed loop of the design.
@ ABhammer,
I mean what Farid suggest. But my idea is a little bit modificated. I didn't thought to press air in the vessel but softballs (balls filled up with air).
If they are risen in the vessel they could fall down outside the vessel. But the key is how is it possible to get them in the vessel. The idea with a compressor or an air pump could be efficient enough.
Alana
AB Hammer, any upward or downward flow will create a current in the direction of the flow and the current will act like a suction. Some examples would be the effects of a sinking ship and the effects of the rising of the ship after it has sunk.
Quote from: nightlife on November 15, 2008, 07:26:41 PM
AB Hammer, any upward or downward flow will create a current in the direction of the flow and the current will act like a suction. Some examples would be the effects of a sinking ship and the effects of the rising of the ship after it has sunk.
Greetings Nightlife
Since you have been looking at sinking ships, you need to look at how bubbles can sink ships as well.
The best way to make short work of this project is to just use compressed air to TEST the "sinking ship effect" in the tube.
My guess is that you will actually create a flow with the air moving the water upward in the tube, and that flow will INCREASE the buoyant effect in the tube causing the floats to sink on the side outside the tube.
Ships sink because A BIG BUBBLE rises under them. The bubble lets gravity move the ship down to the bottom of the bubble and then allows water to collapse from the side walls of the bubble above the ship. The ship is sunk because the top of the ship is not waterproof under pressure.
Just my amateur attempt at thinking about your clever idea.
A pump that runs off of it's own discharge is just like a battery that runs a motor and generator that charges the battery.
Quote from: truth on December 14, 2008, 01:34:28 AM
The best way to make short work of this project is to just use compressed air to TEST the "sinking ship effect" in the tube.
My guess is that you will actually create a flow with the air moving the water upward in the tube, and that flow will INCREASE the buoyant effect in the tube causing the floats to sink on the side outside the tube.
Ships sink because A BIG BUBBLE rises under them. The bubble lets gravity move the ship down to the bottom of the bubble and then allows water to collapse from the side walls of the bubble above the ship. The ship is sunk because the top of the ship is not waterproof under pressure.
Just my amateur attempt at thinking about your clever idea.
A pump that runs off of it's own discharge is just like a battery that runs a motor and generator that charges the battery.
Very good; truth
An air hose test would be a good start to see if it is plausible to make it run, but I disagree with the back flow making it more buoyant in the tube. In water you have standard buoyancy on both sides. Bubbles break up that buoyancy on the tube side which allows the other side to become the lifting power. You have dense water and less dense water due to bubbles.
@ ab hammer,
Usually I am the one with an idea and others are doing this easy part of finding problems, so I am grinning on this one.
Remember our friend Brian? He was so concerned about keeping his tanks together to avoid drag in the dense water. Mass displacing a more dense mass due to the buoyant force of gravity must exchange positions with an equal volume of the more dense mass in order to do the work of rising or sinking..
Now that being said, do you consider a bubble to be a mass?
Also, Will that bubble be compressed?
And last, will many bubbles pass through the confined area in the tube AROUND one of those floats, OR will they bump into it and each other to form a larger compressed air bubble around the entire bottom of the float upwards?
Will those bigger compressed air masses be compressed to equal the pressure at the depth they are currently at?
Now, if the pressure of the water and the air is equal and all gases are fluids will the only forces active in the tube be the pressure differences at the bottom and top of each mass caused by the difference in depth and gravity?
Have you ever seen a bubble in a sick persons IV tube? It is easy to release more fluid from above and press the bubble out the bottom, but very difficult to wiggle the hose and get the bubble to rise. If two bubbles touch you get one larger one.
Unfortunately, like most OU ideas if you make the idea workable (air compressor @ 100 PSI) the more fundamental problems become more visible.
The ship sinks only at the surface of the water because the pressure of that huge bubble is reduced to1 atmosphere at the surface just like all of the other air above the surface which is why the walls colapse above the ship.
Creativity is best directed rather than extinguished.
I hope my hillbilly understanding and explanation is helpful. Thank God for the spell checker on here!
Truth,
This invention was discredited 5 minuets after it was posted.
My invention was posted over 2 months ago and still no one has discredited it.
Quote from: brian334 on December 14, 2008, 05:56:41 PM
Truth,
This invention was discredited 5 minuets after it was posted.
My invention was posted over 2 months ago and still no one has discredited it.
::) ::) ::)
brian334 and you are just in denial from the first second. The only claim I maid is if (IF!) you can get enough bubbles it would work. A matter of fact if you can't eliminate the buoyancy effect on one side you will never get any of them to work.
truth
Water tends to have a mild shield effect thus the need to spray water onto water to break up the surface for a diver from the high dive to soften the entry. If you read back you will see I was in the US Coast Guard and a witness to bubbles sinking a harbor tug in the Mississippi river.
A bubble goes up by the least path of resistance. You are talking all to small when you are talking about a medical tube on an IV. The Bubble fills the complete second of the tube and there is no escape, the fluid reaction keeps it in place. The only problem is to get enough bubbles to the lower starting point, and that is the only question to debunk this design. You need to look closer at the design and you will see there is more to the design than meets the glancing eye. Pay attention to the sub notes on each page. The float is weighted and is only 1/2 the size of the tube with a slot in it for the arms to move through.
@ AB hammer,
I have witnessed things that are not believed by others that were not present, so I will not dispute your account of the sinking experience.
It would be very interesting to know the outcome of that air compressor test.
Do you have plans to build that portion of the device?
I have been reading the gravity mill thread with great interest.
That thread would do our friend Brian a lot of good in understanding what he is dealing with.
truth
Well loosing a months of work due to pneumonia, is making it difficult to build a large design for now but it is in the list to build and I will give it the air hose first and report on the effect. For the blower design will take me a bit to build.
Quote from: brian334 on December 14, 2008, 05:56:41 PM
Truth,
This invention was discredited 5 minuets after it was posted.
My invention was posted over 2 months ago and still no one has discredited it.
Actually, if you check the very beginning of that thread, you will see that the second post already discredited it completely. And it was discredited in many other ways by several other posters in that thread as well.
Your denial of reality, brian, when the evidence is there for all to see, is really amazing.
No it was not, you made general statements why buoyancy machines can’t work.
Mr. Hammer’s machine was criticized in detail from the very beginning.
No general statements about buoyancy machines.
brian334
Their has not been any proof of not working with my design, just opinions on why they don't think it will work. Allot of these guys I communicate privately. They would love me to prove them wrong, but only the build will prove anything. The same thing with your design, you have your critics and now you have to prove them wrong by a build, or fade away to something else.
I can't wait to see how this turns out! :)
EDIT:
Quote from: Jubjub on August 08, 2009, 07:25:11 PM
I can't wait to see how this turns out! :)
The biggest problems I have are so many designs and no time to build. So please forgive me for taking so long.
see very interesting idea: http://www.real-free-energy.co.uk/new%20web%20site/new%20web%20site.htm
also discussion here under: The Hydro Kinetic Turbine.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7022.0
Quote from: AlanA on August 12, 2009, 12:48:29 PM
see very interesting idea: http://www.real-free-energy.co.uk/new%20web%20site/new%20web%20site.htm
also discussion here under: The Hydro Kinetic Turbine.
LOL I was playing with these device 2 years ago and have built gravity version as well. They don't work the friction to the axle is great and in a buoyancy type it all transfer to the axle and wont spin. It is like have a teardrop float sideways. It will still float sideways. I thought it was a great idea back then as well. We live and learn. It is like this, you have the buoyancy but you have no way to spin the wheel, it will just sit there due to the v of the axle friction.
If you don't believe me, you will see. ;)
Thanks ABHAMMER for your answer.
It is very interesting that you did some researches. So you have broad experience.
There are so many ideas out there. But it is not enought to have an idea.
In my next post I will show you the result of my researches.
Please see my idea (attached file).
Constructive comments wellcome.
AlanA
OK lets look at it this way. gravity pull down and buoyancy gos up. A weight sit or is levered to allow the weight to push the wheel. Air has nothing to push against in a void, but the air will try to go to the upper squeezed side but the position of the squeezed keeps the air from going there. Again the air has nothing to push against, so it will still sit there. Another way to look at it is, it will try to lift the mechanism over but the mount won't allow it.
Where are you out of AlanA, you can email me at
ab.hammer@yahoo.com
If you are in the US I have unlimited call time. I talk better than I write.
Quote from: Jubjub on August 10, 2009, 10:18:03 AM
Care to elaborate? ;D
Yes if you would like...
I made a very stupid mistake when I replied to the post. so I edited it and due to my embarrassment had nothing more to say..
But I guess I'll post it anyway...
mindsweeper; It looks like some form of surface aerator. But he is going to have to get the bubbles a lot lower.
Quote from: grayone on August 28, 2009, 09:38:28 AM
mindsweeper; It looks like some form of surface aerator. But he is going to have to get the bubbles a lot lower.
Hi grayone
I was thinking along the lines of the flow of water round the lower ring, as with the 1st picture in the tank the water would have trouble flowing in one direction when in a large square tank.
Quote from: P-Motion on August 31, 2009, 08:59:34 AM
grayone & mindsweeper,
What is pumping the air into the water ? A turbo charger or blower could not do it. A blower requires a massive amount of energy to rotate. Something like Newtons' v*m = p.
How much velocity does a blower need before it starts pumping air ? On an engine, it creates drag until sufficient rpm is developed to increase air flow sufficiently to allow the engine to generate enough power to compensate for the 2 heavy weights a blower uses.
After this, then the efficiency that the gear can convert the lift of air in the water into force comes into question.
Jim
Hey Jim..
Yes, using heavy pumps like a turbo or blower would not work in this case, perhaps a small generator for driving a pump would work. None the less I think the overwhelming problem would be water pressure where the pipe enters the bottom ring. TBH I wasn't sure and was only a thought I had and while it was still clear in my head I made the drawing, posted and then realized my mistakes and removed it.. But as someone asked "could I elaborate on my edit:" I posted it again.
Quote from: P-Motion on September 01, 2009, 07:53:37 AM
That's also how they came about calling oxygen in the blood, the bends. Sorry about the history lesson :(
by oxygen in blood, you really mean => nitrogen (bubbles) in blood. As air is mostly nitrogen.
high pressure oxygen => hyperbaric oxygen, is somewhat good for humans, if you don't overdo it.
:S:MarkSCoffman
Quote from: P-Motion on September 01, 2009, 12:44:45 PM
But then, considering quick depressurization allows oxygen levels to return to normal, why doesn't nitrogen do the same ? Is it stored in tissue ?
Nitrogen is distributively forced into the blood and "disappears", but as the
external high pressure on the organism is reduced it comes out in the form
of bubbles that are not going anywhere. This is alternately known as
"Nitrogen Narcosis". Oxygen is chemically captured by iron in the red blood
cells and works differently. Nitrogen is not a chemically reactive gas at normal
temperatures, so deep divers substitute in Helium, a noble gas for it, which
does what you want.
Sorry for the off topic post.
:S:MarkSCoffman
Hi everyone glad to see people still working very hard on positive solutions.. Why even use floats. Instead let air do all the work for you. Just a thought.
Rough Ugly drawing included.
2 more thoughts
1.You could put the boats on a hinge to facilitate better sinking and lifting from the air bubbles. And Actually you might be able to do with out the air on the sinking side with a good hinged effect and teethed sides.
2. You can add teeth on the top sides of the boat to stop vacuum pressure from getting the boat out of the water upside down.
Wow.. I took a few minutes to ponder about this type of hydro wheel thingy and realized that the only thing you need to easily sink the boat with the least amount of energy used would be a one directional trap door on the bottom of the boats that allow water in when the boat is right side up and and remain closed when the boat is upside down and receiving air.. Basically a one way valve. It should also cancel out the forming vacuum on the lifting side.
Not trying to change the direction of your build just adding some of my thoughts to this thread as it might help in some odd way on your build or someone else's similar build.
therealrasta
Thanks for the addition. The more we can think, the more we will think of.
Now here is an addition. The boats as you call them need to fold up. This will allow easy entry through the bubbles and when they turn over/up they expand at the other bubblier and it will allow more bubbles to inter into the boats as they expand.
Just remember that it is not if they will work with the bubbles, but if it can make enough bubbles to work itself.
Hello Jim
floating valves like flap, ball, leaver and float, are all methods of eliminating back flow. But bubbles on the entry make the reentry of anything easier. It breaks up the surface of the fluids. Just like diving in competition there is always someone spraying the water to break up the surface to make is softer for the diver.
You asked, when I am going to build it? Well, when I finish with the designs I am working on now. I consider the ones I am working on, to have a much better chance for real power production. On this design. The bubblier is truly the only stumble. Once the correct blower/pump is figured out with ease of use. Then these type wheels will be built and run.
Actually I believe this has some of the best chances to work out of many of the devices I have seen.. You can utilize the air bubbles in numerous ways to obtain or save power.
As both you of guys stated the escaping air bubbles and the floats /or "boats, haha" help to break up the water and create small waves.. The wave energy can also be harvested as well.
All I can say is I hope you guys a shit ton of progress on this build.. I do not have enough time on my hands to work on this at the moment. But will be stopping in to read and occasionally add/throw a comment or two.
therealrasta
Thank you for your support on these projects. My armour work has taken up allot of time for building but the season is over until next Feb. through Aug. Now I'm in the time I do special orders and catch up on backlog, then I go into inventory for my vendors. But it does give me time to build a few projects. If you like these, you will love the next wheel I finish. ;)
TR. This drawing of yours actually would work quite well if it were completely submerged, sitting on the ocean floor, and positioned on top of a gas spewing vent! Simply done!
Quote from: therealrasta on September 03, 2009, 01:43:24 PM
Hi everyone glad to see people still working very hard on positive solutions.. Why even use floats. Instead let air do all the work for you. Just a thought.
Rough Ugly drawing included.