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News announcements and other topics => News => Topic started by: nitinnun on October 30, 2008, 05:18:20 AM

Title: half a volt from 1/16th of an inch.
Post by: nitinnun on October 30, 2008, 05:18:20 AM
it produces about half a volt, at 0.5 uA.


a thin layer of copper,
a thin layer of dry polymer,
and a thin layer of steel.
all 3 together equaling a little under 1/16th of an inch thick.

pressed together by a 7/16th of an inch wide space.


it works better than this, when the glue dries on the metal.
because that causes the polymer, to covalently bond to the metals.
so that the polymer and the metals share the same magnetic field, through the covalent bonds.


i have not tried stacking together multiple layers.
because i'm interested in building a bedini motor now.

building a more efficient model, than what i have seen others build so far.
Title: Re: half a volt from 1/16th of an inch.
Post by: otto on October 30, 2008, 05:25:58 AM
Hello all,

@nitinnun

What sort of polymer do you use? PVC, nylon, ......

Otto
Title: Re: half a volt from 1/16th of an inch.
Post by: RunningBare on October 30, 2008, 05:27:32 AM
Quote from: nitinnun on October 30, 2008, 05:18:20 AM


i have not tried stacking together multiple layers.
because i'm interested in building a bedini motor now.

building a more efficient model, than what i have seen others build so far.

I suggest you stick with the polymer "battery"
The bedini motor has been replicated by the best without success, heck why am I bothering, I always say the best way to learn the impossible is to try it.
Title: Re: half a volt from 1/16th of an inch.
Post by: Shanti on October 30, 2008, 05:52:36 AM
What I don't understand, why so many people here are building such batteries. What should be the advantage of such batteries. These are just normal batteries, aren't they?
If you take 2 different metals, you will always get a voltage, this is how a battery works.
Title: Re: half a volt from 1/16th of an inch.
Post by: nitinnun on October 30, 2008, 06:11:43 AM
cells like the one above work, even after being shorted out for weeks straight.

my oldest rock hard cells are more than a year old. and still produce electricity.
polymer keeps its shape for a very, very long time. so i expect that they would work for decades.


it is not a battery. it is its very own power source.
and when connected in series or parallel, they stack.
Title: Re: half a volt from 1/16th of an inch.
Post by: nitinnun on October 30, 2008, 06:20:11 AM
the polymer i used, is elmers school glue.
together, the cell forms into this:

         H H H H H H
          I  I   I  I   I  I
    Fe-C-C-C-C-C-C-Cu
          I  I   I  I   I  I
         H H H H H H

this is the basic form of all/most polymers.
but most glues have materials in them, that eitehr disrupt the polymer chains between the metals.

or make the polymer have so little electrical resistance, that the 2 metals short each other out electrically.


all of those atoms are covalently bonded.
all of those atoms share their magnetic fields. making one giant magnetic field. because they are covalently bonded.


i think the copper generates excess clockwise spinning magnetism.
and the iron generates excess counter0clockwise spinning magnetism.

and when these 2 magnetisms exist in the same magnetic field, they charge up the magnetic field !
Title: Re: half a volt from 1/16th of an inch.
Post by: nitinnun on October 30, 2008, 06:50:57 AM
by the way.
i checked. and the layer of glue was thicker than both metals combined.

maybe next time, i will make a film of glue thinner than 1/32nd of an inch.
i will go the distance!
Title: Re: half a volt from 1/16th of an inch.
Post by: Shanti on October 30, 2008, 06:51:24 AM
Quotemy oldest rock hard cells are more than a year old. and still produce electricity.
polymer keeps its shape for a very, very long time. so i expect that they would work for decades.

Well the Zamboni-Pile batteries worked for more than 100 years! And if the intermediate medium between the metals slows the ion exchange process, it will still work even after a long long time shorting. The disadvantage of such a "bad ion coupling" is that you will only get small amounts of amperages.

Quoteit is not a battery. it is its very own power source.

Well this is just a statement of yours. Why should it not be a normal battery? For your setup is exactly the setup of a battery!
Title: Re: half a volt from 1/16th of an inch.
Post by: resonanceman on October 30, 2008, 01:39:54 PM
Quote from: Shanti on October 30, 2008, 05:52:36 AM

If you take 2 different metals, you will always get a voltage, this is how a battery works.


Shanti

Exactly

Only with most batterys  the chemecal reaction  is very short lived.

I made a glue cell  many months ago .
The glue is compleatly  dry .

with the glue dry the current  was  about half as much as when it was wet .

Shorting it out for  over a week  didn't  change  the reading much .
It did take a about a day to recover ...... 

gary

Title: Re: half a volt from 1/16th of an inch.
Post by: professor on October 30, 2008, 02:45:42 PM
Quote from: nitinnun on October 30, 2008, 05:18:20 AM
it produces about half a volt, at 0.5 uA.


a thin layer of copper,
a thin layer of dry polymer,
and a thin layer of steel.
all 3 together equaling a little under 1/16th of an inch thick.

pressed together by a 7/16th of an inch wide space.


it works better than this, when the glue dries on the metal.
because that causes the polymer, to covalently bond to the metals.
so that the polymer and the metals share the same magnetic field, through the covalent bonds.


i have not tried stacking together multiple layers.
because i'm interested in building a bedini motor now.

building a more efficient model, than what i have seen others build so far.


Hi,
I could not find the File that I downloaded a while ago perhaps of the Keely net, but this was a similar experiment ,which produced much higher voltages and if shorted out it recovered. Not a Battery in its sense but much more like a capacitor.
There were two plates I think of aluminum and sandwiched between them was a polymer Lexan or acrylic sheet of a thickness to withstand 30000 Volts. Clamped together and with 30000 volt DC applied to either side it was stuck into an oven and heated  to kind of melt the polymer onto the alu.plates After that it was removed from the oven still with its voltage connected and cooled.
After cooling the voltage was removed resulting in a selfcharging Device of high voltage.
Always wanted to try that,but never got around to it, therefore unable to confirm, I can not claim that it works.
professor
Title: Re: half a volt from 1/16th of an inch.
Post by: resonanceman on October 30, 2008, 06:54:44 PM
Quote from: professor on October 30, 2008, 02:45:42 PM

Hi,
I could not find the File that I downloaded a while ago perhaps of the Keely net, but this was a similar experiment ,which produced much higher voltages and if shorted out it recovered. Not a Battery in its sense but much more like a capacitor.
There were two plates I think of aluminum and sandwiched between them was a polymer Lexan or acrylic sheet of a thickness to withstand 30000 Volts. Clamped together and with 30000 volt DC applied to either side it was stuck into an oven and heated  to kind of melt the polymer onto the alu.plates After that it was removed from the oven still with its voltage connected and cooled.
After cooling the voltage was removed resulting in a selfcharging Device of high voltage.
Always wanted to try that,but never got around to it, therefore unable to confirm, I can not claim that it works.
professor

Professor

I think I read that  a long time ago .
I remember a warning  about  to much  power being  used while it is melting
The  resistance of the plastic  can  quickly drop  if  to much  power is used

It  looks like it works kind of like electrinium.
As I was writing  this I kept getting flashes  of a different   device .
http://energy21.freeservers.com/elecfg.htm
Adding  particles to  the  dielectric  as they  did  in the electron field generator   might  raise the output .

gary
Title: Re: half a volt from 1/16th of an inch.
Post by: nitinnun on October 30, 2008, 06:58:25 PM
this is what you were talking about, professor.


i think that the magnetic field and its iron core,
cause the cells positive charge to go to one pole,
and the negative charge to go to the other pole.

since the 2 charges leave the layers, to go to the iron poles,
the copper and aluminum atoms can dump MUCH more of their energy into the layers.


the polymer cell without the coil and iron core, is like a bucket of water that has a little hole in it.
only a little water can escape from the hole, over time.

when the coil is charged, and the coils magnetic field enters the iron,
it is like you ripped off the bottom of the bucket.
and ALL of the water is fallout out of the bucket.
Title: Re: half a volt from 1/16th of an inch.
Post by: resonanceman on October 30, 2008, 07:01:27 PM
nitinnun

In the link  in my last post  figure 3 shows  a way that I think  your cells  could be stacked .

gary
Title: Re: half a volt from 1/16th of an inch.
Post by: resonanceman on October 30, 2008, 07:07:29 PM
Quote from: nitinnun on October 30, 2008, 06:58:25 PM
this is what you were talking about, professor.


i think that the magnetic field and its iron core,
cause the cells positive charge to go to one pole,
and the negative charge to go to the other pole.

since the 2 charges leave the layers, to go to the iron poles,
the copper and aluminum atoms can dump MUCH more of their energy into the layers.


the polymer cell without the coil and iron core, is like a bucket of water that has a little hole in it.
only a little water can escape from the hole, over time.

when the coil is charged, and the coils magnetic field enters the iron,
it is like you ripped off the bottom of the bucket.
and ALL of the water is fallout out of the bucket.

nitinnun

I am  pretty sure that they are not the same .

It has been a while  but I think  I read about both  of  them  nearly the same time .
The  picture   on your  post  is suposed to be used in the testatica ...... the plastic  in it is uncooked .................................although ..........it  might  work better  if  the 2 devices  were combined
Cooking the plastic  AND  stimulating it with a magnetic field .

gary

Title: Re: half a volt from 1/16th of an inch.
Post by: resonanceman on October 30, 2008, 07:18:12 PM
Quote from: resonanceman on October 30, 2008, 06:54:44 PM


It  looks like it works kind of like electrinium.
As I was writing  this I kept getting flashes  of a different   device .
http://energy21.freeservers.com/elecfg.htm
Adding  particles to  the  dielectric  as they  did  in the electron field generator   might  raise the output .




I can't  build it now .........but I would love to see a glue cell  made  with  particles  of  silicon carbide ( available  at  rock shops for  tumbling  rocks )  or  silica sand ..... ( ground up  quarts )

Another  thing  that would  be interesting is using  hot melt  glue  instead of elmers .
It  would give you  a  physically  stable  battery in   just a few minutes.
I read in a do it yourself  article  that  hot melt  glue is  one of the  best insulators for high  voltage  that  you can get

  gary
Title: Re: half a volt from 1/16th of an inch.
Post by: nitinnun on October 30, 2008, 07:58:02 PM
why can't you use thin sheets of dried elmers glue?
chemically, it is very similar to plexiglass.


even a 1/32nd thick layer of elmers glue has more than dozzens of mega-ohms of resistance.
Title: Re: half a volt from 1/16th of an inch.
Post by: resonanceman on October 30, 2008, 08:25:47 PM
Quote from: nitinnun on October 30, 2008, 07:58:02 PM



even a 1/32nd thick layer of elmers glue has more than dozzens of mega-ohms of resistance.

I am just  looking at options        the hot glue thing is  just a hunch .


gary
Title: Re: half a volt from 1/16th of an inch.
Post by: resonanceman on October 30, 2008, 09:48:04 PM
Quote from: resonanceman on October 30, 2008, 08:25:47 PM
I am just  looking at options        the hot glue thing is  just a hunch .


gary

I had some hot glue and  copper and steel  from another project  so I  tried a couple  small cells .

Didn't  get anything except a little AC .....but that could have been  meter error


gary
Title: Re: half a volt from 1/16th of an inch.
Post by: nitinnun on October 30, 2008, 10:13:39 PM
most glues do not work.
i think it is because their covalent bond chains are broken.
or because there are "disagreeable" materials in the glue.


the only glues i have gotten to work, have been elmers school glue, and woodglue.

and woodglue is unacceptable when dry.
because it bonds very poorly to the metals.