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Wanted to get this up!
More to discuss later!

Very interesting audio interview with Lynnferd Grant who has now produced gas not just AT the electrodes..
but BETWEEN them with a 3" separation.... a la Stanley Meyers.... no resonance, no tubes..... a paper clip.... and a spoon!

Download:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/kywaterfuelmuseum/2008/11/14/Lynnferd-Grant.mp3 (http://www.blogtalkradio.com/kywaterfuelmuseum/2008/11/14/Lynnferd-Grant.mp3)

Listen:
Free Online Radio - Internet Talk Radio | BlogTalkRadio (http://www.blogtalkradio.com/kywaterfuelmuseum/2008/11/14/lynnferd-grant)

Hi goldenequity,

Excellent find my friend ;) ... this could help tie many things together.

Thanks for starting this topic.

Luc

Great find !
What about a video he told about ... ?

And ... as he talks ... seems easy, sure and interesting stuff. No kidding i just cant understand all, but seems he knows what he is talking about coz hes certain, straight, predictable and detailed during conversation. Next part is a result and yea he described this part as well guide well.
Sure it is worth trying. There is a very good reason, coz its something diffrent and yea replicating pulsed LCR circuit does not show results.

lynnferd@mail.com
-hes mail.

Here's some of the more pertinent (to HHO) dialog I extracted from the audio:  ;D

Quote"On video last night I showed that you have the cloud of bubbles forming between the electrodes, and one of the electrodes in the cup was nothing more than a 1" paperclip unfolded, a one inch length, and that's a very short piece of wire, and the other electrode in the 3" in diameter cup was a spoon, and when the ultrasonics was turned on, it's feeble shaking caused
"bubbles to form throughout the volume of water"

"You do that to the Meyer's fuel cell.... which is nothing more than having a high voltage potential across it, which I put there by putting the electrodes across the capacitor in a standard microwave, the magnatron's capacitor, which is having rather raw unfiltered DC, but nonetheless it is having high voltage DC about 2000 volts, in the range of what Meyer's would be talking about for making his cell work.

I am simply showing in this video... and anybody can do this extremely simply, by taking those two wires from across the capacitor in the microwave... very carefully, cause it's deadly voltage,... across the Meyer water fuel cell...which in its crudest form is a cup of distilled water.... and you have electrodes in there of some kind... he uses "pipes" ...but they're just surface electrodes.. and I showed in the video that you can use a paper clip for one electrode and a spoon for the other.... 3 inches across the large cup...and when you turn on the high voltage... raw AC ripple filtered, unfiltered DC that it does NOT...without the ultrasonic cavitation effect of ultrasonic cleaning...does not do anything... other than suggest a few feeble bubbles on the electrodes.... but when you turn on the ultrasonics, it causes the collapsing bubbles between the electrodes...which then go into a plasma and at that state ... James... and audience.. at that state the little "speck" of plasma behaves like an "inter" electrode.

At that billionth of a second.... that poor little spot...is becoming an electrode in an electrolysis condition... the voltage between the electrodes is divided in a voltage divider so that you have approximately 1.5 volts in the area of that little plasma spot....doing microscopic electrolysis... across that microscopic electrode which exists in an unfathomably small moment of time... a billionth of a second...BUT... you DO have electrolysis.

The phenomenon of ultrasonic cavitation is the bubble then immediately explodes.. because if you think a minute... this cycling process by going between almost a vacuum and a plasma.... if you study sonoluminescence... and I would suggest the broader issue of sonoplasma.... it is oscillating... so that little tiny dot of plasma... after it forms electrolysis on its surface... hydrogen on one side of the potential voltage gradient... and the oxygen on the other, it is immediately exploding... and therefore the hydrogen and oxygen do not get a chance to ... in the conventional sense.. to combine."

More...

Quote"Of course that's what Stanley Meyers was doing and you look at his videos on Youtube
and on an on.... and that people that have reproduced that effect have found it to be
fleeting.... and Meyers..Stanley Meyers talks about in his patent and his many discussions
and presentations and lectures before he had an untimely death ten years ago.. that it
was the resonant frequency of water.

And people are trying to find that.... and I am saying that today, as this simple explanation
I am giving that where you put the voltage..DC voltage gradient across distilled water and
introduce ultrasonic shaking where the ultrasonic waves are causing... like in bubble scrubbing
ultrasonic cleaners the bubbles exploding from a plasma state into a much larger bubble because
of the momentum of water.... and then if you read up on sonoluminesence.... the bubble is 50 (fifty)
times larger than it would be in its normal state.... and its nearly a vacuum at that point and
then the pressure wave comes through the water to greet this tiny little bubble during the
ultrasonic treatment of water... and then this bubble rapidly collapses... because after all its a
virtual vacuum at that stage... and then the momentum of the water will continue to push it
into a tiny little focal point... if the bubble is round.... which means it has to be small and
unaffected by gravity.

So this is what I was able to demonstrate by the introduction of ultrasonics to a cup of water
with the electrodes and the voltage gradient on it ... and it immediately formed the bubbles...
and increasingly....it was not a large set of bubbles... but it was mimicking Meyers fine bubbles..
something akin to the fine fizzy effect of carbonation.

And the little bubbles show us that we are after a NOT ACCIDENTAL RESONANCE of water and the
Meyers effect to get a massive amount of hydrogen from water.... but rather an ultrasonic.. which is
to inject to that frequency instead of accidently have your electrical pulses accidently shape
something into a transducer."

So where do you think Stan hid the transducive material? Without a crystal or ceramic material, making a transducer is impossible as far as I know. I have done a great deal of research into ultrasonics and HHO but I couldn't find an inexpensive way to build a stainless steel tubular transducer. I think Lynnferd's experiment is great but I don't think it was the way Stan did it. But hey, I'll keep an open mind over it and see what happens. Go Lynnferd Grant!

Lynnferd, if your reading this, Shoot me a PM here at the forum. I would love to hear more of your thoughts on this topic.

Final exerpt...  ::)

Quote"and that was adaquate... 5 watts of ultrasound... shaking that... formed a cloud of gasses
which I presume were hydrogen and oxygen like Meyers was making because I had a similar
2000 volt DC gradient ... which he didn't have DC... he had pulsing DC because he felt that
he had to synchronize the pulses with ... I feel... the cavitation or the plasma pulses of the
smashed little bubble.... and he did not know that.....

I think he may have suffered from.... like all of us who are trying to get something done...you
don't have time to read the literature..and I forgive him for that.. we need to get things done,
we also need to study things.. and so there's a lot of people, hard working, that don't get the
chance to read the literature... but he may not have appreciated sonoluminescence.. which is
a relatively recent thing.. and some of this research came out about the time he died ... about
10 years ago... so he may not have understood the significance of this...

But we should not... we have no excuse! look at this! Sonoluminescence is examples of sonoplasma
state which is highly conductive... and a quick comment here.... you might think of a colloid..which
is a tiny little metal particle... which can be suspended by Brownian movement in a liquid as being
like an inter electrode.... the difference is, yes there is hydrogen and oxygen forming on this tiny
little speck of a colloid.. metal colloid... but notice... it is not immediately vaporizing as the plasma
bubble is.. it is staying there long enough that it will simply spin... the hydrogen on one side of the
inter electrode .. this microscopic little nano particle of a colloid.. it will immediately turn and act
like a water fuel cell in the classical, old fashion, scientific meaning of a "fuel cell".... and when you
put hydrogen and oxygen in a fuel cell... you have a battery.... that's what the standard hydrogen
fuel cell has meant.

Well this tiny little particle simply spins around and becomes a battery, in effect, and shunts out
the electrical field and behaves like an ion in your (water) bath... this is very common for people
like me who make colloidal silver... you have silver electrodes to form electrolysis... and the tiny little
pieces of silver are shocked apart by erosion of the electrodes due to electron cluster.. you read up
on that.. yes electrons cluster... they form minute craters... you look at it under a microscope and
they look like a meteor hitting the electrode... and they splatter out molten metal.. and that is the
source of your silver colloid... or copper colloid... or platinum colloid... or any other colloid... but
platinum apparently absorbs the splatter... and that's why you have platinum spark plugs.

If you're following me.... these tiny little specks are very common... in any electrolysis cell... it should
be acting as an inter electrode ... and forming your hydrogen on one side of the tiny little metal and
oxygen on the other."

whew....  ;)

Thanks Luc..... I decided to treat this as a "news" reporter and dig out stuff and just report.
I'll let you guys do the commentary and theorizing.
My motto is.... you never know, until you find out.... so here's some more stuff I found:

These are 2 friends, Thomas and Lynnferd,
that worked together and performed this at 3:45am on Wednesday or Thursday this past week,
and then announced this to a Yahoo group... and then to James Robey / Water Fuel Museum.
Here are some extractions from the yahoo thread:

1) We used a 2100 V Microwave output from the Capacitor (DC current)
2) We used a Ultra-Sonic Jewelery cleaner
3) We used a plain plastic cup about 7 inches tall
4) We used Distilled water
5) We used one paper clip to be used as one of the electrodes but in series with a 100 watt bulb to not short out the microwave which acts
like a fuse in line
6) We used on the other electrode a stainless steel spoon that is about 3 to 4 inches apart from the paper clip
7) Make sure you put a bowl of water into the microwave before turning it on so it will not ruin the microwave
8) Make sure you put your ultra-sonic jewelery cleaner under neath your 7 inch plastic cup but have some water in the ultra-sonic cleaner too
9) before you turn on your microwave to make sure that your 100 watt light bulb is turned on before you put the lines in series with one of the outputs of the microwave capacitor
10) DO NOT TOUCH THE LIGHT BULB LAMP OR THE WIRES THAT ARE HOOKED UP TO THE ELECTRODES WHEN YOU TURN IT ON AT ALL OR YOU WILL GET A SHOOK THAT MIGHT KILL YOU !!!
11) after you have done all of this then you can turn on the microwave
12) about one minute into the processes then you turn on your ultra-sonic jewelery cleaner on high speed
13) about around 5 minutes to make sure you shut it down so the hydrogen will not accidentally explode or have it explode and kill you !!!
----------------------------------------------
I AM SENDING JAMES ROBEY OF WATERMUSEUM SO HE CAN
PUT IT ON YOUTUBE.COM FOR US SO THERE WILL BE A DISCLAIMER ADDED TO
IT SO NO ONE WILL SUE US IS WHY I DID NOT WANT IT ON YOUTUBE YET !!!

SO IT DOES WORK BUT WILL BE PUT ON WWW.YOUTUBE.COM MAYBE NEXT WEEK
SOME TIME GUYS AND WHEN IT DOES GET ON THERE THAT JAMES ROBEY WILL
PUT A LINK HERE FOR YOU GUYS TO LOOK AT IT THEN BUT NOT UNTIL THEN

THOMAS
------------------
Hello Sir. I will be placing this video on youtube next week so there
will be a disclaimer with the video so no one will come back to sue us
for not having it in the video ok but its for real and can be done just
by making the constant ultra sonic frequency by using a ultra sonic
Blitz machine that you can buy at the JCPennys store near you so if you
do this experiment to make sure you do not touch the 2100 V from the
microwave or you will get electrocuted and possibly die from it !!!!
Me and Lynnferd will be doing some more experiments next week with
other things in the Distilled water but also remember you do not have
to have plates in the water to get the same results that we got and
also they can be far apart but also we used just a big paper clip on
one side of the plastic cup and a stainless spoon on the other
electrode which both were 3 inches away from each other in our video it
shows all of this to work !!!
------------------------
The constant of using the Blitz Ultra Sonic Jewelery cleaner at the
higher speeds this machine only has off, slow speed, fast speed and
you can buy one at JCPenny's store where we bought it at so you can
try to use the slow speed but it might not work as well as the faster
speed when all we used was a paper clip at one end electrode and the
other electrode a stainless steel spoon which was 3 inches apart from
each other so its going to be very interesting to find out with using
plates at a closer distance when I do not think that the distance
matters but me and lynnferd will be doing some tests ourselves next
week on this so we can show the outcome of the experiment of this so
be tune for the results !!

I bought some stainless steel spatulas at a close store to do some
more tests with this
--------------------------
Hello guys. I will be putting this video on youtube.com but next week
because so there will be a disclaimer on the video so no one will come
back to sue me or lynnferd is the reason why we haven't done it yet but
will send it to someone to edit the video and put it on youtube so be
patient with me on this thanks !! THIS WORKS JUST WITH ONE ELECTRODE
AS A PAPER CLIP AND THE OTHER ELECTRODE WHICH WAS 3 INCHES APART A
STAINLESS STEEL SPOON !!!

IF YOU DO THIS EXPERIMENT TO MAKE SURE YOU DO NOT TOUCH THE 2100 V FROM
THE MICROWAVE WIRES AT ALL AND THE WATER TOO WHEN YOU TURN ON THE
MICROWAVE AT ALL BECAUSE IF YOU DO THEN YOU MIGHT DIE FROM THE 2100
V !!! THIS IS A DISCLAIMER AND A WARNING TO ALL WHO READS THIS SO YOU
ARE WARNED !!!

THOMAS
----------------------------

Has anyone replicated this yet, is it hho or ?
Dave

Folks,

I have to warn you about the way this guy was performing this experiment :

2000 Volt at 60 or 50 Cycles/sec in a small glass with spoons ( ! )  is an absolute nogo for unexperienced persons.
When you open the microwave-ofen and touch the capacitor you will be dead for sure because it holds more than 2000 Volts.

I strongly suggest to do this experiment with new designed neon-transformers. They operate at 28 KHz. Here you will get 4000 Volt but the difference is you might "only" burn your fingers badly.

Hight voltage at grid-frequency is a very deangerous thing.

I do not understand that this suggestion is made to the public at all - without any stern  warning about the danger involved.

Also this transformer has a power of 500 Watt at least and what I can understand from his description is that he´s just got a few tiny bubbles - at what input-current ?

Regrads

Kator01

Agreed Kantor and thanks for pointing that out.

I want to also post a SERIOUS warning to all readers.
This is DANGEROUS s#it we are talking about here.
It can easily kill you with no apologies.... 2000 V from
a capacitor on the GRID will have NO MERCY.
If you don't fully understand and have EXPERIENCE....
let someone else explore this concept and nail down a
much safer way of achieving the effect.

Be patient and let this thing find it's own way in the
community of expertise that abounds on this forum.

Having said that.... I look forward hearing some results (good or bad)
back to this thread on any attempts at replicating this claim.
Be careful out there.
Randy :)

Quote from: HeairBear on November 14, 2008, 09:43:11 PM
So where do you think Stan hid the transducive material? Without a crystal or ceramic material, making a transducer is impossible as far as I know. I have done a great deal of research into ultrasonics and HHO but I couldn't find an inexpensive way to build a stainless steel tubular transducer. I think Lynnferd's experiment is great but I don't think it was the way Stan did it. But hey, I'll keep an open mind over it and see what happens. Go Lynnferd Grant!

Lynnferd, if your reading this, Shoot me a PM here at the forum. I would love to hear more of your thoughts on this topic.

I am thinking he resonated the tubes using the pulsing from his modified alternator. He was using DC with an AC component into his steel tubes, which resonate in the ultra sonic range. This would be the only way that would support the claims made by Lynnferd. Is this accurate? I am not sure, the only way to tell is to test this on the bench. Should we use a microwave oven to do this, I say no, unless you are well versed in high voltage. Otherwise try the transducer with a car coil as the HV source perhaps or another less lethal power source.

Do not get me wrong I think this has merit and deserves to be explored.

I wonder what if we used a laser diode which is pulsed at say 40khz to excite the water and then use a ignition coil to energize the water? Could that be the secret to the Stanley Myer HHO plug?

I was doing research in this field about a year ago and posted a bit in the "Piezoelectric" section of this forum. A less dangerous way to test this theory could be to use a signal generator, two stainless steel plates, and a suitable transducer or two in the shape of a round washer perhaps which can all be found on eBay if needed. The transducer should be conductively glued to one of the plates with silver epoxy or similar product. For example... positive>>>plate ]---water---[ plate/transducer>>>negative. you will have to tweek and experiment to find a good test build.

Hi Randy and all,

thanks for all the new detailed information you added Randy. I had some questions but now they are all answered. I am away from home till the 27th but as soon as I return I will test this. I did some searches on YouTube on Ultrasonic HHO to see if anyone has used this combination and found many but none seem to have used high voltage like Lynnferd tried.

Thanks for sharing

Luc

Quote from: Kator01 on November 15, 2008, 07:23:05 PM
Folks,

I strongly suggest to do this experiment with new designed neon-transformers. They operate at 28 KHz. Here you will get 4000 Volt
Regrads

Kator01

Hi Kator01,

thanks for posting about the safety concerns ;)

I am interested in a 28 Khz transformer for an experiment. Do you know if they are Sine Wave or Square Wave? I'm looking for Sine Wave. If you know of a cheap one on eBay or somewhere please let me know since I'm not too sure which are the new designed neon-transformers since they don't mention anything about the 28 Khz frequency.

Thanks for sharing

Luc

I'm SO glad to see genuine interest in this.... instead of mocking or dismissal. Thanks all.
This deserves to be verified and explored as so much time and so many people are using
their time and resources to push the envelope.  Heair Bear says he's been pursuing for over
a year.... thanks so much ALL for joining in and your comments so far. ;)

I found a pretty incredible resource page on vibrational data on water:
http://www.martin.chaplin.btinternet.co.uk/vibrat.html

It's WAY over my head but perhaps useful to those (if this indeed works) .... to help to explain
to the REST of us..... WHY it works to release HHO.

( I don't dismiss the sonoluminescence/sonoplasma theories by Lynnferd),
but combining mechanical (vibration)
and electro/chemical to stretch and break the covalent bond of water molecules (or any molecules)
makes good common sense to me.

Looking forward to replication attempts/reporting (good or bad).  ;D

Hi all,

just a quck answer - because I am pretty busy - so you do not get impatient with all your enthousiasm.

@Luc : I am living in germany and a I might be of no help in finding these transformers in the US, but I will post some pics and some further hints. These transformers are used by any shopt which has outdoor neon-lights for its shopname etc for an eyecatcher during nightime. They usually have a powerrate of about 120 Watts. More later.


@goldenequity : I missed you in the emulsifier-thread. Are there any news on this subject ? I was sending a private message to Kampen asking about companies where he got this stuff from - but he simply did not answer to the point.

Sonoluminiscence is of utmost importance to the electrolysis-process. I do not think that you can break or stretch the Water-Molecule with ultrasonics. You will need much higher frequencies up into to infrared and ultravilolet range. Sonoluminsicence is just doing this - it creates UV. But energy is absorbed quickly by the surrounding water. Water absorbes UV-frequency.

It will be a very interesting experiment to combine this. A scientist once sent me a paper on sonoluminsicence. It was found that it even occurs at 10 KHz - but it is so weak and quick in appearance ( pico-seconds ) that it goes by unnoticed.

I come back later

Kator01

Hi all,

@goldenequity : did you read this in your link :

"..The first peak in the far UV of gaseous water (166.5 nm [902], shown light blue in the spectrum above) is due to excitation from the occupied pz2-type molecular 1b1 orbital  (interactive orbitals are available, COW only [Plug-in, ActiveX]). Absorption of UV close-by (~125 nm), excites the 3a1 orbital leading to dissociation into OH + H (photodissociation; higher energy absorption produces charged fragments [1299]). Such dissociation can also be achieved by consecutive absorption of two 266 nm photons [589]. Absorption of two higher energy photons, at 200 nm, gives rise to a hydrated electron by H2O + hν -> H2O+ + e-aq [1057]. Inelastic x-ray scattering studies find this far UV peak to be absent in liquid water [355], where the major peak is at about 56 nm. [Back to Top to top of page]."

Kator01

Very interesting topic, it ties in with an experiment done in 1965 by Doctor X  http://keelynet.com/energy/docx.htm

Hi folks,

now please find attached two pics of my neon-transformer. It is produced in intaly and the distributor- company here in germany is Tecnolux. Dimension of this 50 VA transfrmer ( at 4000 Volt, 28 KHz ) is 14 cm in length, 5 cm in width and height about 3 cm.

I was asking a technician of this company how the output-stage is constructed and he said it is simply a pure open  seconday-coil of the transformer which is driven with 28 KHz.

@Luc : this does not leave much room for speculation. I can only be a distorted sinus which might
get shaped to a puls under load. It is difficult to measure - I neef a sniffler-coil.

I will try to phone this person again to find out more details on the controller. But I guess it is operating in a switched mode.

Here are two additional links on cell-design and chemical treatment of water for better gas-output which are very informative from what I have seen in the first two videos :
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=livehazelgreentraffi&view=videos (http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=livehazelgreentraffi&view=videos)

This guy here has constructed  a very good flash-back-arrestor and i am still looking to a video where he puts 3 spoons of backing-soda in a jar of about 500 ml of water and then adds very slowly destilled vinegar in the water. The chemical reaction releases a lot of CO2, but then the reaction during electrolysis is quite heavy.
http://www.youtube.com/user/pjckac1 (http://www.youtube.com/user/pjckac1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgpmlMQD1F0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgpmlMQD1F0)

Now I found it. Is is on the uawinfo.com . You have to scroll down to the dark-red-diary-entrance:
“New Test On February 21, 2008“
And her you find the two videos demonstrating the booster-effect.
http://www.uawinfo.com/UAWINFO_HHO_GAS/uawinfo1.htm (http://www.uawinfo.com/UAWINFO_HHO_GAS/uawinfo1.htm)

Kator01

Hi Luc,

look here for neon-transformers:

http://www.1000bulbs.com/Neon-Transformers/ (http://www.1000bulbs.com/Neon-Transformers/)

I use this search-engine here :

http://clusty.com/search?input-form=clusty-simple&v%3Asources=webplus&query= (http://clusty.com/search?input-form=clusty-simple&v%3Asources=webplus&query=)

The 100bulbs.com was among the top ten entrances. Hope this helps.

Another word of caution :

if you ever come to the point of experimenting with high-voltage electrodes immersed in water you should know that water can hold high-voltage-charge for some hours at least. So you might get a heavy shock just touching the water after experimenting ( i.e. power-supply switched off ). You will need an isolated electrode with which to ground the water at least 10 seconds and then repeat this grounding  3 times because the charge recoveres

Kator01

Quote from: Kator01 on November 16, 2008, 01:36:15 PM
Hi Luc,

look here for neon-transformers:

http://www.1000bulbs.com/Neon-Transformers/ (http://www.1000bulbs.com/Neon-Transformers/)

I use this search-engine here :

http://clusty.com/search?input-form=clusty-simple&v%3Asources=webplus&query= (http://clusty.com/search?input-form=clusty-simple&v%3Asources=webplus&query=)

The 100bulbs.com was among the top ten entrances. Hope this helps.

Another word of caution :

if you ever come to the point of experimenting with high-voltage electrodes immersed in water you should know that water can hold high-voltage-charge for some hours at least. So you might get a heavy shock just touching the water after experimenting ( i.e. power-supply switched off ). You will need an isolated electrode with which to ground the water at least 10 seconds and then repeat this grounding  3 times because the charge recoveres

Kator01

Hi Kator01,

thank you for all this information :)... I feel a little embarrassed :-[  that you have done so much work. No need to do anymore as I think I have found some on eBay for a good price.

I did not know that a high voltage charge to water could hold for so long :o  I will be careful ;) and use a grounding electrode to discharge as you recommend.

At the present time I am away from home but should be back Nov. 27th

Thanks for all your time and sharing :)

Luc

Hi Luc,

absolutly no need of beeing embarrased as I only had to shoot these two pics. As you do - I do not hold back any knowledge or experiences I made in the past.

Now the key-question here is : Do we need DC-High voltage or does it work with the 28 khz ? I do not know.

But in case that we need dc we have to add a rectifier-circuit especially designed for this frequency.
Although this information is in german language you find this circuit here :

http://www.hcrs.at/ (http://www.hcrs.at/)

Go to the blue Link :  "Elektronikseiten" then  - > "40kV Labornetzgerät" and scroll down to the last wo pictures, where you find the schematic "Gesamtaufbau" .. and pay attention to the rectangular frame on the far right of the circuit. This is the rectifier.

But i will upload it here.

Now something else here concerning ultrasonics. I have done some extensive research two years ago on ultrasoning degassing-techniques. I found very good information concerning the frequency applied for this. One german company explained in detail why the humidifier-transducer dont work for this.

The Ultrasonic wavelength of humidifier-transducers ( 1.3 MegaHertz)  is too short - so the bubbles are trapped between the wave-pressure-maxima and cannot escape. I personally have tested this- and it is true. Therefore pulsed 40 KHz  is used for active outgassing. They pulse the 4o Khz - vibration with about 1 KHz or so. In this way bubbles are given the time to rise to the surface. I have to reread that stuff because I can imagine that you have to even go slower than this 1 KHz..

So you see there are many things to know before starting with experiments. I hope that this info helps saving time and effort.

In the meanwhile ( because of the maas-break-down of chinese companies)  there should be a lot of electronic scrap accumulating in most of the countries which imported these ultrasonic cleaners ( jewlery-cleaner)  from China, so you may find this at those companies which are dealing with this scap-stuff. I myself have rescued more than 5 of these devices and could repair some of them if the transducer was not broken.

Scrap-market-news here ( the wheel truns backwards, so to say ):

http://www.sacbee.com/101/story/1384067.html (http://www.sacbee.com/101/story/1384067.html)

and here somthing off topic but related to the above :

http://www.investmentu.com/IUEL/2008/November/baltic-dry-index.html (http://www.investmentu.com/IUEL/2008/November/baltic-dry-index.html)

.. and for realtime-grafic of the baltic Dry Index you go here :

http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/Baltic_Dry_Index_-_BDI_(BALDRY)/WikiChart (http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/Baltic_Dry_Index_-_BDI_(BALDRY)/WikiChart)

Is´nt that interesting ?

Regards

Kator01

Once again Kator01 thanks for all the information ;)

I'm finding lots of Ultrasonic Jewelry cleaner on eBay. It is interesting to see that most of them are using the frequency of 42,000 Hz which has been proposed by many to be the frequency John Keely would use to disassociate water.

I'm not sure if I follow your post above about where the 1 Khz frequency will come into play ??? ... are you saying it is applied in addition to the 42 Khz by an additional mechanical oscillator?  or are you saying this is an electrical pulse frequency?

I would also tend to believe that the electrical side would need to be DC but pulsed at a certain frequency

Thanks for sharing

Luc

@Luc/Kantor/all
Luc is referencing the Keely experiments (late 1800's) which this "Doctor X" was apparently replicating (1965)....
As referenced above by Dave45 (thankyou  ;) ) ; note the frequency.... thanks Luc for NOTING that about the jewelery cleaners!
http://keelynet.com/energy/docx.htm

QuoteA recent (1965) possible verification of the frequency Keely used to dissociate water into etheric force was related to me by a scientist when we were discussing certain aspects of free energy. He wishes to remain anonymous for obvious reasons, but his name is on file. I have no other verification of this experiment, however I believe it merits telling.

The scientist, I shall call him Dr. X, was doing experiments with ultrasonic sound in a column of water. The object of the experiments was to devise a means of separating various densities of materials by injecting them into a column of water which was subjected to an ultrasonic standing wave vibration. The experimental setup is sketched in Figure 3-3 (for BBS considerations a description follows).

A Barium Titanate ultrasonic transducer was fixed to the bottom of a quartz tube which was closed at the bottom and open at the top. Pure water was poured into the tube and the water column was "tuned" so that a standing wave was produced at 40,000 CPS (cycles per second). The transducer was powered by a 700 Watt power amplifier which was driven by an ultrasonic frequency generator.

Because of the large amount of power put into the column of water a certain amount of evaporation took place at a constant rate when the transducer was energized. Therefore, to maintain a standing wave in the water column a feedback device caused the frequency to be raised as the water evaporated and the temperature changed.

As a test, Dr. X decided to run through the experiment with only water in the tube to insure that a standing wave was maintained as the water evaporated and the frequency rose higher and higher. When the experiment was started everything worked beautifully.

Dr. X took periodic readings of his instrumentation and was assured that the standing wave was being maintained. Suddenly, with no warning whatever the water disappeared from the open quartz tube. He looked up thinking to see the water splashed on the ceiling when to his amazement a clean hole went right through the ceiling. The hole was the same size as the inside of the quartz tube.

Further investigation showed the hole continued on through the roof also! Dr. X checked his notebook and found the last frequency entry to be 41,300 CPS. It was shortly after this that the water disappeared.

Because of the time interval between the last reading and the disappearing water, the frequency sent to the transducer was higher than the last reading and Dr. X said it could well have been very close to 42,800 CPS, the Keely dissociation frequency. (11)

This obviously dangerous event caused Dr. X to dismantle the equipment and try some other approach to his problem. This experiment points the way to the use of our modern technology in conjunction with Keely's laws of dissociation to change matter into energy without the use of radioactive materials or extremely expensive atomic accelerators.

---

In Keely's experiments with water dissocation in the late 1800's, on many occasions he had explosions that burst iron tubes and in one case blew out the side of his lab. He wound up in the hospital with broken ribs and major bruises.

The iron pipes had a needle size hole through 1" and 2" thick iron, which were burst like balloons. Measurements of the force produced from water dissociation based on his experiments quoted "3 drops of water, instantaneously dissociated (in a spherical chamber) to produce 29,000 pounds per square inch".

Hi Luc,

yes I mean the 40 KHz are switched on and of at a rate of 1000 Hertz. The professionals even use multi-frequency-ultrasonics i.e 2 or 3 different frequencies at the same time.

Pulsed DC ? I do not know, Luc, but my physical knowledge tells me, pure DC would be sufficient because ultrasonic pressure is much stronger than forces created by variation of electric field-strenght in a dielectric.

From all the reseach I have done I only can say that I do not believe in a certain magic disruptive frequency for electrolysis. I rergard this as desinformation distracting the attention. It´s more simple and has to do with sonoluminiscence which occurs even at low frequencies of 10 KHz or even lower than this.
And please notice this : The energy of the UV-Light-pulses created by ultrasonics ( cavitaion/imposion) exceed the ultrasonic power-level by 10 exp 11 !!!

Pay attention to this which makes this story a fairy-tale :

QuoteI have no other verification of this experiment, however I believe it merits telling.

... and I would not dare to physically stay near a 700 Watt-transducer. At this power-level I do not think a glass-cylinder will stand the forces applied by the transducer.

Please read this here :

http://aem.asm.org/cgi/content/full/64/2/465 (http://aem.asm.org/cgi/content/full/64/2/465)

scroll down to the paragraph "Introduction" where is starts "UW are generated by mechanical ... " and pay attention to the heat-Level and pressure-level generated. We are talling here about temperatur-levels present at the surface of the sun and Mega-Pascal-Preasure-Level !!

Any doubts left ?

If you have a look at professional ultrasonic-cleaner-machines for industry which are about this size of power - they all use heavy steel-cages.

But everyone here is free to believe these stories and act accordingly.

I just share my knowledge I have gained while I do not get lost in non common-sense considerations.

Regards

Kator01

Hi all,

the attached picture is a screenshot of a book published at sribd :

http://www.scribd.com/doc/7343552/sonoluminescence (http://www.scribd.com/doc/7343552/sonoluminescence)

Hope you will get the idea.

Kator01

Hi all,

excuse me picture is too fuzzy.

New one attached here.

Kator01

Thanks for ALL your input Kator.
Are you planning any experimentation /replications?

Hi goldenequity,

you bet, but it will take some time because I am preparing a test-circuit to find out more about Thanes HV-Coil-Behaviour.

I like to repeat my question to you : Did you made any success with this emulsifier-subject ?
I think it´s worth to continue with this.

I was thinking about a test with a Petromax-Petroleum-Lamp. They are cheap and you can easily adapt the nozzles. What do you think ?

This here is a german webside explaining in detail the function ot this lamp and when I read this it was sort of  a trigger for me to think about using water-oil-emnulsion with this type of a device.

http://www.lampenmaxe.de/funktion.php (http://www.lampenmaxe.de/funktion.php)

If experiments fail you just have spent 50 $ and possess a light  you can use if electricity fails

Regards

Kator

Hi Kator...
I confess to having been sidetracked by the plasma sparkplug circuit....
as it progresses..... it is moving steadily towards modified fuel.... either a
GEET or vaporized fuel setup.  This would include emulsified fuel and I
expect to see some renewed interest (including my own  ;D ) at that point.

As far as emulsifying browns gas.... I feel I took it as far as it needs to be
as far as proof of concept.  It can be done (and is being done).
Whether or not people will prefer that concept vs. generating it "on the fly"
remains to be seen.

Aside from suppression.... markets tend to dictate what people want and will buy.
EM fuels has the product and equipment .... but are struggling for sales.. (expensive equip!)
Even on this forum.... there were not many who reported any experimentation to the
emulsifying thread.... I'm ok with that.... like I said... markets will dictate what people want
with their money AND their interest/actions.... so I gave it a rest.
Cheers!

GE sorry about the seeming lack of interest in fuel emulsification . Recent events have had me scrambling to other immediate priorities
I have gathered burner heads and nozzle's for experimenting
I am interested in Geet also, but want to heat homes
recently finished construction of an outside shop for these tests
Yes this thread also is Amazing and right up my alley
Kator unfortunate Kamben seems to have stopped contributing his findings for a surfactant
    Chet

Hi goldenequity,

ok thank you. I wonder if kampen ever will provide an answer to my question. He is from netherlands and many of these people there us propan in their cars. I will continue with my research and ask a friend of mine who is an chemical enginneer what ideas he has concerning this information.

regrads

Kator01

Here's an update and description/observation of the original video:

Quoteand here somthing off topic but related to the above :
http://www.investmentu.com/IUEL/2008/November/baltic-dry-index.html
.. and for realtime-grafic of the baltic Dry Index you go here :
http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/Baltic_Dry_Index_-_BDI_(BALDRY)/WikiChart
Is´nt that interesting ?

btw... thanks for this Kator... I'm a trader  ;)

Hi goldenequity,

then I put this info at the right spot. I was wondering why I placed  it her instead in the news-section.

@ramset : Yes, unfortunately. I sent him a private message here asking about  his friend who gave him samples
of this stuff, but he simply ignored my question.

Best Regards

Kator

Quote from: starcruiser on November 15, 2008, 09:21:22 PM
I am thinking he resonated the tubes using the pulsing from his modified alternator. He was using DC with an AC component into his steel tubes, which resonate in the ultra sonic range. This would be the only way that would support the claims made by Lynnferd. Is this accurate? I am not sure, the only way to tell is to test this on the bench. Should we use a microwave oven to do this, I say no, unless you are well versed in high voltage. Otherwise try the transducer with a car coil as the HV source perhaps or another less lethal power source.

Do not get me wrong I think this has merit and deserves to be explored.

I wonder what if we used a laser diode which is pulsed at say 40khz to excite the water and then use a ignition coil to energize the water? Could that be the secret to the Stanley Myer HHO plug?

@Starcruiser

I think you are on the right track don't know if the output of a laser Diode is sufficient though even when pulsed.
But I always thought that there has to be mechanical resonance involved. Whether you use tubes or plates I think it
really does not matter, plates simply operate at a lower frequency spectrum which both are audible and must therefore be under 16khz.
I always wanted to use my"Rife" Quartz tube that is filled with argon and try to modulate its RF excited Plasma
with different frequencies. 100 Watts of Rf  should give me more output than a Laser diode.
Just bought two Vehicles that I am restoring, once that is done I may find some more time to devote myself back into this project.
professor

Interesting discussion here :).

Quote from: Kator01 on November 16, 2008, 06:18:15 PMNow the key-question here is : Do we need DC-High voltage or does it work with the 28 khz ? I do not know.

How about both? Like in the first picture.

Second picture is what I think can generate such wave.

I really interested to see the result of this experiment.

Hi suahyo,

I would not use  this unsystematic methode. Too many steps at a time. You will not know what is doing what.

Kator01

I see. But I really hope there is plan for experiment with DC sinewave too, even if it is not at high voltage. I hope experiment with electrical frequency do not use AC (which I think disturb electrolysis) or rectified AC (weird / unnatural pulse).

What I really like to now is if pulsed DC can have more effect. At what percentage is the pulse voltage compare to DC voltage for best efficiency. What pulse is better, sinewave, square, etc.

I really like to test it my self, but sadly I don't have the necessary equipment.

What I plan to do with my circuit:
- varying input frequency, finding which frequency is best for hydrogen generation, not water vapor, not oxygen.
- varying output voltage to find out at what voltage it start to be noticable.
- varying pulse vs DC voltage percentage, to find out at what percentage is best.

Quote from: sucahyo on November 19, 2008, 12:10:47 AM
I see. But I really hope there is plan for experiment with DC sinewave too, even if it is not at high voltage. I hope experiment with electrical frequency do not use AC (which I think disturb electrolysis) or rectified AC (weird / unnatural pulse).

What I really like to now is if pulsed DC can have more effect. At what percentage is the pulse voltage compare to DC voltage for best efficiency. What pulse is better, sinewave, square, etc.

I really like to test it my self, but sadly I don't have the necessary equipment.

What I plan to do with my circuit:
- varying input frequency, finding which frequency is best for hydrogen generation, not water vapor, not oxygen.
- varying output voltage to find out at what voltage it start to be noticable.
- varying pulse vs DC voltage percentage, to find out at what percentage is best.

sucahyo....  and welcome to the thread.... try/suggest all ideas to be discussed.... I think what Kantor  was saying is that isolating
your variables during your testing is necessary.  Cheers!  ;)

Ok folks.... you be the judge... I just presents da facts  :'(

Here's the video they have now posted
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwED1w88npk

I guess I will comment....
I was hoping for more...   ???
but hope is really what drives us all in this.... (sigh)
any replications/improvements yet?

ditto... I hope they get it working again on the next full moon.

Hi goldenequity and all,

I would agree that this is not a good video demonstration but it has to start somewhere :D

If we look at what was originally presented that alone is the most interesting part and is happening in the video, gas production did not happen until the correct frequency and or amplitude of the Ultrasonic transducer was reached!... demonstrating that a physical oscillation is capable of having an effect between water and a voltage potential between electrodes. This association in itself is very fascinating and to think they used such a large cup of water and still got the effect is once more encouraging.

This is a diamond in the rough ;D  as so many other tweaks can now be done, like having the water container cavity tuned to a size and shape to resonate ;)

I am hopeful :D

Luc

Hi all,

managgia miseria !

eery if I watch these two sexual mature kids playing with 2000 Volt. My hairs rise up as if powered by high tension.
Irresponsible, if this is not a fake. The video does not show any details. So what have we got :

1) 60 Watt of ultrasonic power - consumption
2) 2000 Volt , 10 to 20 milliAmp current flowing in the water ( just a humble guess ) -> 20-40 Watt high-tension-power ( Microwave-over is consuming 500 Watt at all during operation)

Result : Two mature kids excited about a few bubbles ( created by 80 Watt power ).

So , dont try this. If you can not resist it, take a  neon-transformer ( 4000 Volt, 60 to 120 Watt ) Ask Luc where he fond some at ebay.
I could not resist giving my comment on this one.

Regards

Kator

Totally agree with you Kator!

the use of a microwave oven is most likely not needed and DANGEROUS :o... if this is the real thing then a low amp voltage potential should work. Kator's idea to use a Neon sigh transformer is a very good one.

Here is a link to a Neon sign transformer for $25. with free shipping to the US: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=270294982525

and here is a Ultrasonic Cleaner: http://cgi.ebay.com/Ultrasonic-Jewelry-Cleaner-CD-7800-74177_W0QQitemZ370113300835QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item370113300835&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2

Luc

Could this be the same effect? "Charging water with singing bowl"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CycFRkWboQU

Quote from: hanker886 on November 19, 2008, 04:41:41 PM
Could this be the same effect? "Charging water with singing bowl"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CycFRkWboQU

Hi hanker886,

that video is interesting ;D when I first say it about 10 months ago I was also wondering if this was releasing the gases from the water but I don't think so. I have not come to a sure conclusion but if you look at the bubbles compared to the ultrasonic video you will notice a cloud or fog that appears with the ultrasonic method to which is a sign of electrolysis happening and from my experience of building and playing with electrolyzer cells this looks just like what happens when the Hydrogen and Oxygen gases are released.

Thanks for sharing

Luc

Thanks for the welcome goldenequity :),

I just recently learn about vibration from Dale Pond presentation, and really inspired with it. It is interesting that many things are related with vibration.

It would be interesting to see what vibration can do to, say, 120 watt of electrolysis, by adding 10 watt of:
- ultrasonic sound
- pulsating light intensity / light with higher octave emition
- mechanical vibration
- electrolysis inside brass tube tuned to spesific frequency like gotoluc mention
- electromagnetic, electrolysis inside elctromagnetic coil using diamagetic properties of water to shake it
- electric, adding AC sinewave/squarewave

Yes this does not seem unusual to me as far as the microwave is concerned tons of electric will equal what you see I believe...

IDK what is the eureka here anyone care to tell me just what it is that I am missing I appreciate the effort and testing believe me cause I would not have preformed such a test but, where to go from here?

Just watching the microwave video, look very very dangerous, one small wrong movement can cause death.....

As for bubble created, if the input voltage is AC I think it would be very interesting that ultrasonic can make it do electrolysis. It would be more interesting to see how high voltage DC input do.

Even if it is DC, electrolysis efficiency seems boosted with ultrasonic.

I would agree with Luc and those curious enough to further this.
Perhaps a diamond in the rough is the appropriate way to look at
this..... not focusing on "them" the 2 guys.....but "it".
What can be done with "it"?
Please report ALL variations & attempts to this thread... good or bad... 
It's amazing how one person's experience can birth dozens of alternate
concepts then we watch it develop and be tweaked by more and more refinements..
just like the plasma spark thread..... its come a LONG way since Luc's first
post.......its how open sourcing is supposed to work.
Cheers 2 all  :)

Hi all,

now I feel obliged to point out that the power of a standart-jewlery-cleaner might not be sufficient to start the electrolysis-process.

If - provided that this video is not a fake - you look closley near the last quarter of this video you will notice that they had to turn on power-stage 2 of the cleaner for the bubbles to appear.

From my experience with many cleaners which I was repairing, the power-rate written on the tag applies to the electric power-consumption ( not sonic-power created)  and is mostly way below the specification. Most cleaner have a 50 Watt spec but when I tested them with my powermeter there was not one device with 30 Watt. Most of them ended at 27 Watt. So you have to look at a device with at least real 50 watt-power-consumption - otherwise you spend money on a useless device. No one of us really knows the threshold beyond of which the process will start.

Regards

Kator

Anyone ever see ironhead ultrasonic video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxtNsIUIOS0

The larger bubble when ultrasonic device turned on I think is the sign or more efficient electrolysis. Higher current density will increase bubble size on plate configuration isn't it?

Hi everyone,

I have an update. At this time I am away from home, Ottawa, Canada. I've been in Florida for 2 weeks and today I took a 3 hour drive to visit Mike, user name: jstadwater  and his boss at their Custom Auto Shop.

Mike is a very active tester and developer of the Water Spark circuit topic and this was a great occasion to meet him. Once there I found out that he has been following this topic and had the necessary supplies ready for testing.

We used a microwave oven transformer, capacitor and diode but did not have it connected to the magnetron tube. His Ultrasonic cleaner was a stainless tank model with a frequency of 42,000 Hz. It had water in it and a plastic cup filled with water with 2 stainless steel 1/2" wide x 4" long electrodes on each side about 3" apart. We powered the transformer assembly and noticed immediate gas production without the ultrasonic cleaner on and when we turned it on all the fine bubbles (cloud) disappear.

This effect can be seen on Youtube if you search for "ultrasonic HHO" you will find some video's

We were not capable of replicating the effect since we had gas production from the start and the setup was not identical. I am also wondering if someone can do the research on the Ultrasonic cleaner model used in the original test to find what frequency it is as I found some cheaper models used a lower frequency.

I'm sure Mike will test it with a paper clip and spoon as electrodes to see if it makes a difference . Please also note the ultrasonic cleaner had no power adjustment.

That's it for now!

Luc

I've been researching transducers as prompted by hairbear...

What I found is that a piezolectric material (usually ceramic or quartz) is any material that has dipolar molecular structure.  I.E. WATER

When applying high frequency voltage to parallel electrodes with water in between are we not in effect making a transducer?

Luc,

you need destilled water - but laboratory-high-quality-  that is this water must have an inner resistance at least  of 1 - 2 MegOhm.
If you use destilled water from  you supermarked or even tap-water you of course will have a lot of gas generated immediatly.
Ultransonic will drive the gas out quickly, so everything what you describe here is in accordance of what I would expect with this setup.

You will need steam-destilled water - better double-processed. In addition to this you have to clean the steel-plates with ethanol to remove any grease and finally immerse them into boiling steam-destilled water, take them out and let them dry in the air.

Any small contaminations will serve as little electronic bridges at this voltage-level and gas is produced immediatly.

Regards

Kator

Hi all,,

please calculate the following current arrising at 200 Volt :

U = 2000 Volt , R_i_H20 = 2 Megohm > current i = 1 milliAmp. 2 milliAmp for one-time-processed steam-destilled water.

To test water-inner resistance correctly you need a Pure-Water Tester ( PWT myko-siemens) of Hanna-Instruments Type HI 98308.

Kator

Don't get stuck on this guys, what if the gain is 0.2MMW would the cost and practical use help us?

The problem with water is that it's not a constant factor, some guys get stuck on MMW/efficiency other's move to more practical use of what we make

Good idea tho


Mr H2inICE

Quote from: Farlander on November 21, 2008, 11:13:00 AM
I've been researching transducers as prompted by hairbear...

What I found is that a piezolectric material (usually ceramic or quartz) is any material that has dipolar molecular structure.  I.E. WATER

When applying high frequency voltage to parallel electrodes with water in between are we not in effect making a transducer?

This is an excellent comment. My own thoughts are along the lines that Meyer's WFC was a capacitor with water as dieletric. When voltage is applied to to the plates ( the two concentric tubes ) the dielectric (water) is shocked. For every cell there would be a specific frequency to be applied for the water to break down.
This also points to the common belief that HV needs to be applied to the tubes. The standard ultrasonic transducers have a fixed frequency which may not be correct for the water breakdown to occur.

It is believed by some that Meyer had cut notches on his tubes as a way of fine tuning them. I am not sure about this.
Also, as the level of water changes, so would the parameters of resonances.

Quote from: Kator01 on November 21, 2008, 09:16:03 PM
Luc,

you need destilled water - but laboratory-high-quality-  that is this water must have an inner resistance at least  of 1 - 2 MegOhm.
If you use destilled water from  you supermarked or even tap-water you of course will have a lot of gas generated immediatly.
Ultransonic will drive the gas out quickly, so everything what you describe here is in accordance of what I would expect with this setup.

You will need steam-destilled water - better double-processed. In addition to this you have to clean the steel-plates with ethanol to remove any grease and finally immerse them into boiling steam-destilled water, take them out and let them dry in the air.

Any small contaminations will serve as little electronic bridges at this voltage-level and gas is produced immediatly.

Regards

Kator

Thanks Kator for posting this information ;D.  You are so right, I wasn't thinking. The experiment is not mine, it was done in user: jstadwater's shop but I'm quite sure he is reading the posts and will hopefully try your suggestions.

Thanks for posting this ;)

Luc

Assuming Meyer did use ultrasonics of some sort, where did be put the transducers in the two demo cells he used to demonstrate his inventions? It is very  possible he did, but then we need to know how. One thing about transducers is the fact that adding any mass to it like a steel plate and water will change the resonant frequency. No biggy though, there is no exact frequency to find any way as most people are lead to believe. We just need to know the resonances(there are more than one) of our circuit. What a transducer does when power is applied is change shape in a fast and strong way. We use this characteristic to attach a bell or horn made of resilient material(steel) to move the water as fast and hard as possible. At the right frequencies the water will begin to go into cavitation which may enhance a small electrolysis reaction already present in the circuit. Transducers can also enhance the capacitance of the water cell allowing it to hold a higher voltage without leaking a lot of current. Tuning the tubes would be ideal in this situation being in tune with the resonance for greatest efficiency.

Using Stan Meyer's "Rotary Voltage-Frequency Pulse Generator" and "Tubular Cluster Array" as an example, we can see that there is nothing special about any part of the whole device at all. No PWM, no chokes, no nothin but  variac, rectifier, electric motor with a 6 inch pulley, de-regulated alternator and 9 sets of stainless steel tubes. The cell is encased in plastic... How the hell do you tune it into resonance? You don't...  So then, what is it that is making it work the way it does? No heat and a good amount of gasses from 10 watts of power. I don't know, yet, but I aim to find out.

Quote from: HeairBear on November 22, 2008, 07:40:27 PMUsing Stan Meyer's "Rotary Voltage-Frequency Pulse Generator" and "Tubular Cluster Array" as an example, we can see that there is nothing special about any part of the whole device at all.

What is the purposes of the "Rotary Voltage-Frequency Pulse Generator"? is this what everyone replace with PWM? is it really replaceable?

Is that device used to generate high voltage perfect square wave?

Quote from: sucahyo on November 24, 2008, 01:32:00 AM
What is the purposes of the "Rotary Voltage-Frequency Pulse Generator"? is this what everyone replace with PWM? is it really replaceable?

Is that device used to generate high voltage perfect square wave?

Yes, the alternator is replaceable with a PWM if you do it right. Yes, that is what everyone is doing, but most are doing it wrong. No, the alternator does not produce perfect square waves, only perfect sine waves. And here is the real kicker! Nobody to date has "replicated" Stan's work and show the same results. Many have made their own versions but never has anyone done a true replication and brought it to "show and tell". If you don't build it exactly or as close as possible as the original, how do you expect to get the results you are looking for?

@HeairBear
water for fuel.com has a pretty cool wave coming off of his alternator.

Quote from: epeirce on November 24, 2008, 08:03:40 PM
@HeairBear
water for fuel.com has a pretty cool wave coming off of his alternator.

HOLY SHIT! Look at those prices! I love the idea of using a PWM for the input to the alternator but there is a way to do that and still keep the ability to adjust the voltage(0-140V). With just a PWM you are restricted to the 12V it's designed to run with. I like his work, I hate his prices...

Thanks for the info HeairBear, I thought meyer want to replicate tesla by doing ramp up voltage where the diode rectify the impulse to make it unidirectional, the really high resistant coil will act as electron stopper which allow only ether to pass trough, water act as capacitor, and the water break down process as spark jump. He would need high voltage square wave for it.

But there is flaw in this assumption, I don't think transformer specified in the patent will produce square wave output even if the input is perfect square wave. Besides, I don't think harmless ether (high freq type) would electrolize (harming) water.

I hope there are more finding in Meyer cell replication. It would be a great loss if we can't replicate it.


Agree that those electronics priced too high, it is enough to buy a complete HHO generator

Hey Luc,

another unnoticed fact I became aware of  (it often takes some time until the penny drops ) :

Ultrasonic is used for cleaning the surface of a metal or material that is able to edure the vibration without getting broken.

Now in this experiment - when ultrasonic has been switched to stage 2 - then dirt is coming off the plates - contaminates the water -> lowering the resistance and here we go ... normal electrolysis starts at this voltage-level. Ultrasonics just paves the way ...


This will even happen with steam-destilled water   . amd dirty plates ( or spoons )

Have we bee shown in this video the bubbles rising up in between the plates ( spoons ) ??

I will do tests anyway - but only with very clean electrodes - you bet - and will not expect any new phaenomenon here.

Kator01

I have watch some ultrasonic video and here is what I learn:
- ultrasonic tranducer  clear up the bubble mist and make the device produce larger bubble
- ultrasonic tranducer reduce efficiency

All of the above characteristic seems the same as the difference of current density. Ultrasonic tranducer  made electrode behave like it receive higher current density. Higher current density have larger bubble and less efficiency.

This should explain why turning on ultrasonic tranducer make the bubble come out. When there is no bubble form/ very slowly produced, when ultrasonic tranducer turned on, the electrode surface will act as like it receive higher current density and make the surface release bubble more. But when the electrode surface already release bubble, having ultrasonic will increase the size and make it less efficient.


I think we should also try to find the way to reverse the ultrasonic tranducer effect.


article "EARTH POWER SPECTRUM AND ITS POTENTIAL AS A USABLE ENERGY SOURCE" have interesting note:

QuoteThe Earth’s atmosphere vibrations are harmonically related, and therefore desirous of self-oscillation, as given by Keely. In the article referred to about the Hendershot device, the frequency of 14.3 KHz.,if multiplied by 3, equals the frequency of 42.9 KHz., if multiplied by 6 equals 86 KHz., and by 9 equals 128 KHz., another observed frequency, or when multiplied by 12, equals
almost the suggested frequency of Hans Coler. These inventors were clearly on the path to utilization of this abundant energy source, which surrounds us each minute.

Yesterday I want to try to "poisoning" the DC input of my cell with my soundcard sine/square wave output. I use a toroid with same turn for both primary and secondary. I pass the cell input trough secondary (white wire), and intent to pass the sound card output to primary (blue wire). But I have problem with my power supply. Everytime I connect the primary to my sound card output, the power supply died (my monitor flicker for a moment too). It would take some minute of disconnecting power for the power supply before it can be turned on again (which usually takes seconds).

Anyone know why this happen, and more importantly, how to prevent it from happening?

Ohmmeter set at 2M do not detect any connection between primary and secondary. The video show that when I stick one end blue wire, the other end free, to my computer case, it will spark and halting cell power supply.

add a resistor or lamp in series with the primary.

Thanks, adding with resistor will not turning off power supply. But now I become afraid if this can damage my computer, because the spark seems to regenerate. I attach 1 ohm resistor and it produce continuous spark and the resistor will become very hot and untouchable in a couple of seconds. The other end of this wire is still free.

I will try with lamp tomorrow.

here is the complete video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DH_LJ6jOWac

I think I will have to forgot the idea of poisoning cell DC input with computer soundcard. The primary become secondary and capable of electrolizing with one wire attached to positive electrode, other wire free, negative electrode attached to computer case.

Quote from: sucahyo on November 26, 2008, 08:01:29 PM
Yesterday I want to try to "poisoning" the DC input of my cell with my soundcard sine/square wave output. I use a toroid with same turn for both primary and secondary. I pass the cell input trough secondary (white wire), and intent to pass the sound card output to primary (blue wire). But I have problem with my power supply. Everytime I connect the primary to my sound card output, the power supply died (my monitor flicker for a moment too). It would take some minute of disconnecting power for the power supply before it can be turned on again (which usually takes seconds).

Anyone know why this happen, and more importantly, how to prevent it from happening?

Ohmmeter set at 2M do not detect any connection between primary and secondary. The video show that when I stick one end blue wire, the other end free, to my computer case, it will spark and halting cell power supply.

In my humble opinion, it is caused by the toroid transformer...


According to the picture, your primary winding is too short... Making a straight short circuit...

Well, just my 2 cent...  ;D

Hi all,

we should keep an eye on this new topic ;)

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6170.0

Luc

Quote from: lon92 on November 27, 2008, 08:49:50 AMIn my humble opinion, it is caused by the toroid transformer...


According to the picture, your primary winding is too short... Making a straight short circuit...

Well, just my 2 cent...  ;D

I see, thanks. It turn out that the primary and secondary is shorted by the toroid. I confuse because it does not short when I tested just after winding.

I found an interesting explanation that suspect daniel dingel is using a poisoned DC voltage, but Dingle use high voltage square wave for it.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/1740-daniel-dingel.html

Reading that I don't see a point to use computer sound card.

Quote from: sucahyo on November 28, 2008, 01:32:55 AM
I found an interesting explanation that suspect daniel dingel is using a poisoned DC voltage, but Dingle use high voltage square wave for it.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/1740-daniel-dingel.html

Reading that I don't see a point to use computer sound card.

Thanks for the link...  :D