Hi All,
please have a look at this ? Russian ? inventor showing a very nice
magnet gate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1IJ8v3Grw4
It really accelerates the runner piece and does not hold it back,
when it comes out of the magnet gate stack.
Can somebody understand what he says and post an english summary please ?
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
Stefan:
Interesting video. I have nothing to add at this point, I just wanted to receive notifications of future posts so I can follow this topic. It appears he does not have to push very hard to get into the gate and gets a large kick out of the gate. This might adapt well to my idea of the SMOT aligned on a wheel where gravity helps you enter the gate and the kick brings you over the top.
Bill
I think it'll be hard to find more info about this person. If you check the youtube profile you get "Last Sign In: 10 months ago".
Have a look at HJ's, Perendev's, Kundel's, and Qin Gang's work.
The gate is not the answer, it's one of the keys. The key, at least in dynamic systems, lies in the creative exploitation of rapidly pulsating magnetic fields.
The magnets doing the work, need not be the ones producing electricity. Magnets make great leverage systems, and in so doing, one can make a permanent magnet act like an AC electromagnet, therefore keeping Lorenz in his place.....
Which is, in reality, just a small bit further from all the commotion than many have been content to leave him.
Too much effort is wasted in trying to produce a magnet powered wheel. One would do better to seek to instead produce a wheel powered magnet. Such a product is not far from a working solid state system. It is, in fact, a macro analog to the micro principles taking place in Tesla's observation, which he referred to as "the wheelwork of nature".
TS
I do understand Russian very well, but he speaks much nothing, especially when not visible what is on the paper. Mostly he is speaking about what would be when distance between magnets bit different, few words about magnetic gates, then: " you see - there is magnet in centre . (flying bullet).. but if two magnets ... then" ... another man "then will get more speed and more power?" ... "yes" ... bla-bla-bla. Believe me - nothing constructive.
gruss,
khabe
Quotebla-bla-bla. Believe me - nothing constructive.
lol. You are correct. One can demonstrate the same or better results with a single ring magnet of similar size.
TS
So how does it work? 4 ring magnets and a cylinder magnet shots through the center?
Thanks,
Jason
Quote from: hartiberlin on November 18, 2008, 12:40:06 PM
Hi All,
please have a look at this ? Russian ? inventor showing a very nice
magnet gate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1IJ8v3Grw4
It really accelerates the runner piece and does not hold it back,
when it comes out of the magnet gate stack.
Can somebody understand what he says and post an english summary please ?
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
I have translated what I have seen, and you don't need to be a rocket scientist to see what's happening:
Quote:
"I just use force to push this long wooden stick, with a round neomagnet glued on it (just to confuse everyone to believe I have a long magnet rod in my hand), through the hole. When I push it far enough into the hole, the magnet will repel the magnetic hole on the other side. The wooden stick will prevent the neomegnet to flip during the first step of this operation. What a great discovery!"
From my eyes point of view - something like that ;)
Br.
Vidar
It is difficult to see how much repulsive force he is working against as he pushes the cylinder mag into the array by hand, maybe it's less than the ejection force but then maybe it's not? It does look to me that he has to apply some force to get it over the repulsion bump.
As far as I can see the main point against more force out than in is this: I did notice that on the right hand side in the vid appears to be a rotor disc loaded with cylinder mags, I would expect him to show that spinning if he had achieved that, his array already has a split down one side that the rotor disc sheet could run between.
I do hope it's the good stuff all the same and will watch this for more info if it arrives.
edit: thanks for translation vidar.
After reviewing the video again,
it surely looks like he is not using much force to push the
stick into the hole and gets much more energy ( force x flydistance)
out of the gate by accelerating the stick with the ball magnet.
So it seems this magnet gate is really NOT a spring like conservative
system but an actual accelerator delivering more energy than put in.
Ok, Stefan, I'll take your bait, and regurgitate!
lol.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Prx-0BqlqYA
The above also retains the appearance of overunity effect, however, what is really being displayed is force over time asymmetry. Much like Peregrinus' concepts.
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/rmodmk3.htm
These lines of research have lead to much frustration largely because the angle of approach to the problem is flawed. One of the keys to greater understanding, lies not in overcoming the effects being displayed, but in appreciating what they mean, exploiting their nature.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjEsGZfkCRA
How is it that a magnet studded wheel can turn with such low resistance when coming into close proximity to stator magnets of even moderately acceptable shape and angle? And what should be done with all of these cheaply borne field fluctuations?
TS
Quote from: hartiberlin on November 19, 2008, 07:06:25 PM
After reviewing the video again,
it surely looks like he is not using much force to push the
stick into the hole and gets much more energy ( force x flydistance)
out of the gate by accelerating the stick with the ball magnet.
So it seems this magnet gate is really NOT a spring like conservative
system but an actual accelerator delivering more energy than put in.
Nope, I don't think so. Actually, the major "push" happens well before that little push at release. Look closely at 0:15-0:18, and you can see that by the time he has the magnet in position for the final release, he's already pushed it quite a bit up a repulsive "hill". When he releases the stick/magnet, it is just going over the last bit of the top of that energetic hill.
You can achieve the same effect (and another, even more interesting one) using a ring magnet, a piece of plastic tubing that fits thru the hole in the ring magnet, and a cylinder magnet that will slide inside the tube. You also need a dowel or non-magnetic rod to push the cylinder magnet up the hill.
Be careful, the cylinder can shoot out very forcefully.
And then there's that
other interesting effect from this configuration...
;)
QuoteYou can achieve the same effect (and another, even more interesting one) using a ring magnet,
No way.
Show us!
TS
Does anyone understand how this works? (meaning what is used, ring magnets?, etc.)
Thanks,
Jason
Check out:
http://www.rexresearch.com/johnson/1johnson.htm
Think of the magnetic field like a two way vortex ring. If magnetic fields were, in fact, propagated in the manner displayed in college textbooks, free energy would be quite easy to come by....that is, if earth, or any matter at all, were allowed to exist at all under such condition, etc. etc.
TS
Sorry to be the one to break the bad news, but the forces do balance out. The weak repulsion going in, and the weak attraction on the way out, add up to balance against the stronger pull going through. This type of magnet system is just a ring of magnets with all like poles pointed inwards, and is sometimes referred to as a bedini gate. These types of magnet systems are fun to play with though, and in repulsion can behave like an invisible rubber membrane.
Thanks for breaking it to us gently, derricka.
TS
Quote from: TechStuf on November 19, 2008, 08:08:46 PM
No way.
Show us!
TS
I'll try to make a video later tonight. I'm pretty busy right now though. Hint: obviously you can levitate a magnet
over another magnet, by mutual repulsion. But did you know you can also levitate a magnet,
under another magnet, and have it maintain a fixed position against gravity?
Derricka & TinselKoala, I encourage you to read the topics in which you post, to save you any embarrassment in the future....my comments in response to you both were a bit 'tongue in cheek', as I'd already commented on the ring magnet scenario and commensurate difficulties higher in the thread.
Keep up the enthusiasm, however!
http://www.arttec.net/Levitation/index.html
http://www.levitron.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1vyB-O5i6E
Magnetic levitation of various expression, has been around for some time now.
TS
@Techstuf
Perhaps you should re-read your last comment and tell me who should be embarrassed.
OK, TechStuff, I get the humor/irony now!
I was just leaving work when I made that last post and was too hurried to take things any way but literally. But maybe I could be talking about a different ring magnet scenario than that mentioned in your post (which I did read, along with all others in this thread)
But I'm actually referring to what I call the "magnetic non-contact trailer hitch" which is a quasi-stable configuration of magnets, not in contact, that can transmit both pushes and pulls but is free to rotate and swivel.
I will demonstrate what I mean in a video that I will post later on tonight, if I can stay awake.
No doubt TS and others who have played with magnets have also noticed this effect, but I haven't seen it talked about.
One can also reproduce this effect with flat magnets properly stacked with spacers, on wheels, to make a train of cars that will stay connected, but not in contact, while being pushed or pulled.
I learnt about that configuration from Nikolayev, the teacher of Stefan Marinov.
And here it is ( or very soon will be) :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNaxoKkGTRM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNaxoKkGTRM)
Tinselkoala:
Nice video. Very well explained. Thank you.
Bill
Tinsel tried to explain it well,
but if you watch the original video there are 4 stator magnet rings which could
be different sizes and which might have different polarities, so to make an
asymmetically flux and thus it seems from the video,
that he really needs not to push it much at all into the gate and
it flies out with pretty much velocity.
So I still disagree to the guys who say that the forces are symmetrical.
With the right iron core pieces inside the flux gate you can make such
a setup very asymmetrical and thus get acceleration into one direction.
Regards, Stefan.
He is tolding that there is different distance between four gates (as you can see as well), he is tolding that there is two poluses on the "bullet" ... man shows on the paper what kind magnet he hoped/planned to have for moving inside of flux gate, unfortunately its not much visible. As I told before he is speaking not much useful ... by my opinion he knows not much about magnetism. What he is doing is hoping discovered invention ...therms and words he is using are ... very amateur ...
There are very many similar gates on related videos ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nchubCR3tIk&feature=related
khabe
QuoteSo I still disagree to the guys who say that the forces are symmetrical.
With the right iron core pieces inside the flux gate you can make such
a setup very asymmetrical and thus get acceleration into one direction.
Regards, Stefan
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbqsWOK0uMo
Given that the best demonstration of the flux gate thus far has been given by Howard Johnson himself, I think it's fair to say that the vast majority of repeat attempts have mistaken force over time asymmetry for actual force asymmetry. Those who've been stubborn enough to have bumped ceilings with HJ, have no doubt glimpsed past the event horizon into a veritable Laurentian abyssal of composite field complexities. I think that if anyone working with magnets were to test the radius of actual field influence of each magnet, they may come away with a newfound respect for 'near surface' dynamics. What appears more impressive with a composite field flux gate is the fact field asymmetry is more prevalent. Again, I refer the reader back to Peregrinus. A simple cone shaped neo is, by nature of it's existence, an asymmetrical field generator.
In no way do I feel that HJ's flux gate is a dead end. Only that it is inefficient for the purposes of conventional power generation. Now, as a vehicle for unconventional power generation, it's potential for efficiency looks much brighter.
HJ inspired the expression: "90 degree rule" referring to perpendicular field interactions as a basis for the flux gate research. What becomes readily apparent is that the system prefers movement in one direction, but what is occuring is actually more complex. Oversimplified, one might use an obtuse triangle for comparison. Despite how it might feel, It takes the same amount of energy to push a weight up the left side as the right. Again, of course the triangle concept is not a direct analog....however, one gets the idea.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fetc.usf.edu%2Fclipart%2F38600%2F38600%2FTriwent7_38600_lg.gif&hash=fc2e82582f00bf6bd18415c1175fa636b4de1988)
Howard appears to have produced a self powered unit, although I personally have never seen a demo of convincing run time. The timing of flux gate systems is so diabolical and misleading, that I'm fairly certain it ran finicky and produced very little, if any, usable power.
That's the potatoes of it. The meat comes after one realizes that he need not settle on a wheel that barely turns.....and asks: what can be done with a wheel that provides so little resistance despite being spun at high speed with stator and rotor magnets in close proximity?
TS
For those interested in magnetic gates, check out this article here:
http://www.fdp.nu/free_energy.asp?book=90
Specifically, see the demo video here (also linked in the article):
http://www.fdp.nu/The%2090%20degree%20rule-filer/Arm%20Ramp%20Test.asf
This simple demo shows that the 90 degree gate is biased so that it takes less force to enter in one direction and much more to enter from the other direction. The kick out of the gate is the same in both cases though. The idea is that if you can stagger these gates in such a way that the fields do not interfere with each other and kill the gating effect, that it should be possible to produce a continuous rotating disk with a series of gates or at least a linear track.
God Bless,
Jason O
It appears that Stefan's site is being 'handled' and as such, it has proven difficult for me to post helpful information here. Even my general inferences now seem to invoke the censors....
I may endeavor to get information to the web via another channel.
TS
Quote from: TechStuf on November 21, 2008, 01:50:17 PM
It appears that Stefan's site is being 'handled' and as such, it has proven difficult for me to post helpful information here. Even my general inferences now seem to invoke the censors....
I may endeavor to get information to the web via another channel.
TS
What do you mean by "handled" ?
I don´t censor anything, but just spam.
Several of my posts have disappeared upon hitting the post button, or the site won't load....or the site will load fine until I hit the reply button. These kinds of harrassments have followed me from site to site, so when I use the term "handled" I am referencing TPTB. Of course, when I am posting literally anything BUT important information....the posts usually go through. Which seems indicative of real time go/no go analysis. The myriad 'intrigues' I've experienced go way beyond chance 'glitches', so I'm positive that my internet interactions are being 'handled' somewhere enroute. I've had blue screens upon submitting posts, keyboard lockups, resulting in multiple driver reinstalls. Hard drive failures, Mobo failures, monitor driver unloads....ALL at critical moments.
At this point, I think somebody should do a remake of the miniseries "V", only change a few subplot lines, names and characters and call it:
"Z"
TS
How many ways are there to coax a permanent magnet into acting much the same as a LF AC electromagnet for the purpose of initiating induction?
Is the simple principle being demonstrated here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9bsRfHd-Fo
Worthy to help pry the gate open?
TS
Quote from: hartiberlin on November 19, 2008, 07:06:25 PM
After reviewing the video again,
it surely looks like he is not using much force to push the
stick into the hole and gets much more energy ( force x flydistance)
out of the gate by accelerating the stick with the ball magnet.
So it seems this magnet gate is really NOT a spring like conservative
system but an actual accelerator delivering more energy than put in.
It also doesn't requires much energy to accelerate that lightweight magnet and wood stick into that speed. I will be convinced if this experiment coud repeat itself with a row of several gates. But I think the magnet and the wood stick is too light to have enough kinetic energy to enter the next gate.
Vidar
Vidar:
I like your idea. A second set-up could be place such that the projectile leaves the first, and maybe or maybe not, overcomes the resistance to entering the first gate of the second device. This would answer all the questions right there. I agree that the wood projectile may not have enough mass to do the job. It seems to me that the mass of the projectile should be as high as possible without losing much velocity. Someone would have to chart this out by experiments. I am sure there is a number specific to a given set-up that provides the ultimate in mass vs velocity. Then, if your test is run and it doesn't work, that's the best that can be done. If it does work, heck, someone might be able to close the loop.
Bill
I think my gate videos are a little more interesting. It seems as if the magnet shoots prior to being 50% pushed into the gate. The neo's seem to shoot when the trailing edge of the shooting magnet is perpendicular to the face of the gate or even prior. I'd have to do some more videos to figure this out. I stopped looking at this awhile ago. :(
http://s164.photobucket.com/albums/u18/johnriven/?action=view¤t=JohnsonShoot2.flv
http://s164.photobucket.com/albums/u18/johnriven/?action=view¤t=9d8238f0.flv
----------------
Also, to counter the "levitating" magnet in a tube claim, It's not levitating. It's trying to escape the field as it only knows how. It's trying to twist and orient itself in line with the field lines. Without the tube it would just flip and get stuck to the ring magnet. Or maybe fly off.
Here's my version of a washer levitating.
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u18/johnriven/J2R2WasherHover.jpg
The different stacks are alternately oriented. I was able to conduct the experiment with the tube and without. The washer(or magnet) wants to move towards one or the other stacks but is constrained from doing so by the tube. Try it with a magnet that's smaller than the inner diameter of the tube, it will simply rotate. It isn't levitating, it's pinned to the side of the tube by friction while being repelled/attracted.
Good luck getting the hitch working without the tube. I don't think it's possible, but hey, never say never.
noncents
I found more information on this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1IJ8v3Grw4).
If you leave the mouse over the video the attached contact info will pop-up.
Here is a link to the homepage:
http://ntpo.com/invention/invention2/39.shtml
There is a link for English translation, but the English version has a few images missing.
I have attached two images from the homepage.
Jason
Uhm ???.. maybe it wasn't the mouse, but for some reason the contact info popped up while playing the video, while it didn't before.
Jason
Interesting drawings,
thanks for posting the link to the site. The design is not very intuitive though as I would have expected the magnets to enter from the wide end and exit from the narrow end. Would be interesting to test to see if this does in fact produce a greater force on the output though just from a glance, it doesn't *seem* that it should.
God Bless,
Jason O
How would one get a magnet that shape? Use two ferrite blocks with a magnet in between?
Jason
Here is the english version:
http://ntpo.com/invention/invention2/39_en.shtml
Regards, Stefan.
Quote from: noncents on November 22, 2008, 10:49:36 PM
I think my gate videos are a little more interesting. It seems as if the magnet shoots prior to being 50% pushed into the gate. The neo's seem to shoot when the trailing edge of the shooting magnet is perpendicular to the face of the gate or even prior. I'd have to do some more videos to figure this out. I stopped looking at this awhile ago. :(
http://s164.photobucket.com/albums/u18/johnriven/?action=view¤t=JohnsonShoot2.flv
http://s164.photobucket.com/albums/u18/johnriven/?action=view¤t=9d8238f0.flv
----------------
Hi,
nice experiments.
Please try to glue a "U" shaped iron core at the front of the "fly" magnet
and see, if this reduces the repelling forces, when the magnet must be
pushed at the start site through the stator gate.
Please play with the thickness of this "U" shaped iron core to
try to find the least repelling forces at the entrance.
Many thanks.
Seems the key is to have all of one poll in the ring-gate. Like all north as noncents shows.
Jason
Good points Stefan & Jason.
Couple more tips....flux is concentrated in faceted magnets at the corners. Also, magnets with non parallel surfaces naturally provide greater field asymmetry. As you can see here:
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2082400/rare_earth_underground_pt_1/
I got decent results with a few of mine. But we're grading on a nasty curve here. The BEST magnetic gates (and I've tried more than a few) by their very nature, are poorly suited for conventional power generation.
Who can tell me why? Other than the obvious. I don't doubt that Jason has his answer waiting. It sounds corny, but my advice is to 'be' the magnet.....be the magnet.....
One would do well to focus one's studies on way(s) to pry the secret out of old Lenz's iron clutches so that he 'coughs' up the goods.
TS
Little torque, little voltage? What is your answer?
Jason
I have an idea.. that is if the traveler magnet could go through multiple ring-gates.. is to use a hula-hoop to close the loop. could use collector solenoid coils to capture the energy.
Jason
PS - I thought is was such a good idea, I hesitated sharing. LOL ;D
Yes, then add the utterly diabolical momentum/timing issues, load variation, etc.... and one begins to see greener pastures sickeningly close to conventional generation systems which exploit near surface dynamics so easily overlooked and under utilized.
Harnessing nature's wheelwork need not be harshly bargained at the slippery surface of a well oiled water balloon....aka, a magnetic field. Besides, they're more fun when they burst open, sharing their contents with those close by.
TS
Quote from: 4Tesla on November 26, 2008, 02:15:01 AM
Seems the key is to have all of one poll in the ring-gate. Like all north as noncents shows.
Jason
The all north facing poles is of course part of it. But not the key part of the Johnson gate from what I was able to discern for the doc that was circulating. I think this image is key:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi164.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu18%2Fjohnriven%2FGateDoc1.jpg&hash=2a7d08c5b0d380101b6e982f5b7ae8b3283a4017)
Sorry about the big image.
This was the closest I could figure out about how H. Johnson was suggesting to set up the gate.
http://s164.photobucket.com/albums/u18/johnriven/?action=view¤t=GateExplain2.flv
If anyone has a different take on it, I'd like to hear it too. :)
My take on it seems twisted around and then I look again and get confused again. :(
I've never seen Howard Johnson's best magnetic gate produce a single watt of electrical power. Read into the statement what you will, but one thing is certain, the enterprise is fraught with inefficiencies. Such that, when combined with the gross ineffciencies of induction systems in their current state, proliferation is precluded. It seems I am prevented from sharing fully with this forum, perhaps that is a good thing. Who knows.
TS
Tech stuff Who or what would prevent you from sharing??
Chet
It's complicated. Much more complicated than free energy.
A massive catch 22. Power corrupts and those who think they have absolute power have been absolutely corrupted. They like to throw their weight around. I won't rehash it all here.
TPTB want to bring the world economy all the way down, before sharing any of what they consider to be 'their toys' with anyone else. Anybody who threatens their timetable is harrassed with some of those very same toys.
Free energy is a trinket compared to Who is coming soon to set things Right.
TS
Tech stuff It has always been my understanding that God works in simplicity
Have a good night
Chet
Good point. The wisdom of men is foolishness to God.
His enemies sure seem to prefer to take the long way around. He does work in mysterious ways, with wonders to perform.
“It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, but the glory of kings is to search out a matter.†Proverbs 25:2
TS
Tech stuff Onto whomsoever much is given much is required
I don't understand the 2nd part of proverbs 25;2
Chet
QuoteOnto whomsoever much is given much is required
Well put.
God bless,
TS
What am I missing here? ???
Why are you guys quoting scripture? What does this have to do with the magnetic gate?
Nobody is claiming any gate has generated one joule of energy.
If this is the best this forum can generate, oh brother. 8)
This website explains this as well as another design. I cant not read what is said but maybe someone else here can translate it for us.
http://ntpo.com/invention/invention2/39.shtml
Quote from: nightlife on November 28, 2008, 09:53:53 PM
This website explains this as well as another design. I cant not read what is said but maybe someone else here can translate it for us.
http://ntpo.com/invention/invention2/39.shtml
Hi,
Stefan already found the English language page of that link, see 2 pages earlier:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6107.msg140244#msg140244
Also, you may use free online translators like translate.google.com :
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fntpo.com%2Finvention%2Finvention2%2F39.shtml&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=ru&tl=en
rgds, Gyula
gyulasun, thank you for that info.
Has anyone had any luck with this concept yet?
Translating
www.translate.ru
its work better then google !!
Pese
der sagt dass Magnetpol am ende der Patrone wenn es durch Magnetgate geht bremst die aus. sry can kein englisch
also lasst euch einen magneten mit einem pol bauen ;)
Thanks pese, I like that one.
Quote from: RebeLLz on November 29, 2008, 05:25:17 AM
der sagt dass Magnetpol am ende der Patrone wenn es durch Magnetgate geht bremst die aus. sry can kein englisch
also lasst euch einen magneten mit einem pol bauen ;)
he says magnetic pole in that ends to the cartridge if it by magnet gate goes out it brakes. sry can nobody in English can be built magneten with pol
The above is what it was translated to and I still cant understand what was said. LOL
Quote from: nightlife on November 28, 2008, 11:44:34 PM
gyulasun, thank you for that info.
Has anyone had any luck with this concept yet?
I'll have some magnets in January to try.
Jason