i am currently working on a design for a HHO generator to be used for the production of electricity. either by way of fuel cell or ICE.
i will explain what it is that i have done.
the core of the cell is a 1 metre long 40cm diameter fibreglass tube, this tube has a 4km long coil wound around it in the form of a dipole.
the dipole is tuned to a frequency of exactly 42.854khz
when power is put into a dipole and pulsed at its tuned frequency resonance is acchieved. when this happens MAXIMUM energy transfer occours.
i have 1000watts of power going into this dipole. this consumes only 4.4 amps of power.
at this frequency and power the signal is capable of travelling round the world multiple times, it would be possible to send this frequency to australia on only 10 watts
so 1000watts in close proximity of water vibrating at 42.854khz(ultrasonic jewellery cleaners run at 42khz @ 60watts) will make anything the wave passes through vibrate at this frequency. in the case of water this can be a resonant frequency. depending on the type of water, contaminents and vessel the water is held in its resonant frequency is anywhere between 30-50khz. generally though 42.8khz tends to be a good frequency to use.
now that we have the water resonating @ 42.8khz its time to make a bit of magic happen. by introducing stainless steel plates to the water there will be an increase of electromagnetic pulses in the water due to the agnetic properties of the iron in the steel. by putting in just 1/2 an amp i can put out 1 litre per minute. 20-30 amps puts out near enough 100lpm. this 30 amps is split between the dipole 4.4 amps and 3 pumps which use 1.8amps each.
so thats 9.8 amps not going directly into the water. 20 amps in the water produces 100lpm (30amps total)
as the gas is being produced in monotomic form there is no implosive properties only explosions. i would like to split these gasses up and pump them into a fuel cell or use them in an ICE
any questions please ask
the dipole formers are available for sale for those who want to duplicate this experiment. you will have to wind your own coil, full instructions and wire supplier will be provided
So is this something you have tested and it produces from 1 lpm to 100 lpm?
Have you tried using this directly on a ICE powered generator?
hiya
yes this setup can be controlled by the amp input to produce as little as 1lpm upto 100lpm at the moment
i have this running on a 400cc honda engine and it consumes 14lpm at 3000rpm which drives a 120amp alternator to power the cell. the alternator load is 16 amps
the cell however is not small. its total size is 70cm diameter and is 1metre long with all its electronics bolted to the outer cover.
.
this cell is designed for land based pwer production not for use in vehicles unfortunatly
Quote from: Hydro-Cell on November 26, 2008, 12:20:57 PMi have this running on a 400cc honda engine and it consumes 14lpm at 3000rpm which drives a 120amp alternator to power the cell. the alternator load is 16 amps
y
120 amp at 120V at 12 Volts. ???
Ist mutch differences in Watts ! Must know , to follow yiu
60Amperes,
will ask the same information.
Pese.
all @ 12volts dc
Interesting, so at 14 Lpm it can provide enough output to run a 12hp engine. This system could then run a 120V AC generator and produce from 10KW to 25Kw or more.
With the capability to adjust production, this would be good for a house system. So what is the electrolyte used in your design? Plain tap distilled or NaOH? (I am assuming NaOH).
Will you be trying this on a 5Kw or larger generator to test how long this can be run? Or have you done run tests already?
hi
solution is 30% KOH
14lpm runs the engine under the load required to run itself, hope that makes sense. if more load were put on more hho is required.
i hope at some point to try this setup on a 1litre car engine. it has all the electronics and altrnator to run itself so the crankshaft can be used for output of energy. i.e a generator motor
Hydro are you talking about a tramsmitt er?
1000 watts on a dipole can make a lot of noise
if antennae tech is what you are doing have you tried parabolic [focus]
or creating the wave inside a resonant chamber?
Very interesting thankyou for sharing
can i get more info chetkremens@gmail.com
@Hydro-Cell,
Cool. Do you have any Pix of the core/cell you can post?
30 percent KOH.
So, just to be sure, you are putting in 300 grams of KOH pellets for every liter (1000 grams) of water.
Right?
Quote from: TinselKoala on November 26, 2008, 05:10:00 PM
30 percent KOH.
So, just to be sure, you are putting in 300 grams of KOH pellets for every liter (1000 grams) of water.
Right?
yes this is correct, be careful when adding the koh as the water will get hot. i use flakes to not pellets.
pics will follow as soon as i can get some sorted out
Quote from: Hydro-Cell on November 26, 2008, 11:40:39 AM
i have 1000watts of power going into this dipole. this consumes only 4.4 amps of power.
at this frequency and power the signal is capable of travelling round the world multiple times, it would be possible to send this frequency to australia on only 10 watts
@Hydro-cell
This experimental device sounds neat and I am going to remember this until I need hydrogen
Could you explain the 1000watts a little more clearly. As 4.4amps @ 12Vdc is only
52.8 watts. If the power going into the "final" amplifier is only 53 watts then that's what
should be quoted as going out on the dipole even though a full wave dipole at 4km itself should
be very powerful. Is this; a) 1000watt final amplifier like an audio amplifier that is used?
or b) is this some calculation of ERP - Effective "Radiated" Power?
VLF radio transmitters require more than ten watts because they compete with the
Lightning Radio noise floor.
I take it that the dipole is wound on the form like a electromagnet, feed as it's center. This
could be called a transducer rather then an antenna - so interference should not be much of an
issue. It's effect would be to produce EM waves that are heavily biased toward the Magnetic
component of the EM wave.
It's neat to see what you are accomplishing so far - all in one place (sort of like an advertisement).
please feel free to repeat what you have done with the 12Vdc stated and the 1KW figure
explained - if you do more in the future you can just repeat the part that stays the same.
:S:MarkSCoffman
hi
my figures come out as follows......
using the ohms law circle i found that to find the amps used the formula is
power in watts / resistance in ohms ..squared
now i am using 1000 watts.
the resistance for the centre of a dipole is 50ohms
so thats 1000 / 50 = 20
now the square root of 20 is 4.4
so my current draw is 4.4amps
on the other hand the other to work out amps we can also simply divide power by volts which gives us 77amps.
so wich formula is correct???
since i am only reading low current i belive this to be correct at 4.4 amps.
Ohm's law is V=IR
and power is Watts=I squared R
so I squared = watts/R
take the square root of both sides
I = (watts/R)^1/2
so I = (1000/50)^1/2
I = ~4.47 amps
This is a value for input power to the system--but using the 1000 watt figure is probably wrong.
What makes you think you are getting 1000 watts of power to the antenna?
This would make more sense if you measured the input voltage and current, then calculated the input power from that. Then, use an RF power meter to determine the effective power to the antenna.
power / volts = amps
Eve , if one of the calculation is incorrect.
If he produce with 4 amps @ 12 volt more Hydrogen , as all other constrction ... than is this an way to give attention and gratulations..
GP
YES Pese if Hydrocell is producing more HHO with less energy he needs to be congratulated
Chet
Quote from: Hydro-Cell on November 26, 2008, 11:40:39 AM
the dipole is tuned to a frequency of exactly 42.854khz
when power is put into a dipole and pulsed at its tuned frequency resonance is acchieved.
What equipement that you use to tune the dipole? How do you know it resonate at that frequency?
a dipole can be tuned to resonance using a grid dip ocsillator.
this small device will put a signal into the dipole, in this case 42.854khz. the grid dip oscillator has a tuning capacitor on it that allows you to tune to the dipole. this will indicate if you have either to many or not enough windings on the dipole.
if the oscillator is set to 42.854khz exactly and the dipole is resonant the meter on the grid dip oscillator reads zero. this shows that there is no feedback or harmonics being returned. using this method you get maximum energy transfer.
a dipole of this size is dangerous especially at these frequencies. just 10wats into this dipole could cause stinging in the eyes and also rf burns.
1000watts could do major damage to a person. it must therefore be protected inside a faraday cage while switched on.
Quote from: Hydro-Cell on November 26, 2008, 11:40:39 AM
The dipole is tuned to a frequency of exactly 42.854khz
when power is put into a dipole and pulsed at its tuned frequency resonance is achieved.
I think you will find this of value:
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter10.pdf
Don't forget that it is the basis of the Meyer and Boyce
systems that the voltage (rather than the current) that
does the business.
Paul.
hi
thanks for the link. i have indeed read this document as well as chapter 9 and also chapter 14, they make interesting reading. however none used rf or electromagnetic waves.
Can you provide documentation to reproduce your experiments?
I already have a Tempest cage capable of performing these experiments.
A parts list with component values. And specs of the dipole.
FROG
no documentation is available at the moment, am in the process of writing it all up.
I still can't find how you know you are delivering a thousand watts to your load.
Could you please specify how you measured or calculated this power?
Quote from: TinselKoala on November 30, 2008, 09:29:32 AM
I still can't find how you know you are delivering a thousand watts to your load.
Could you please specify how you measured or calculated this power?
please read previous posts, the maths do the talking the formula according to ohms law is
power in watts / ohms squared
1000 watts / 50 ohm output = 20
square root of 20 = 4.4
simple. the other way i know im getting 1000 watts to the load is that im using a 1200watt amplifier at near full power
Quote from: Hydro-Cell on November 29, 2008, 06:16:55 AM
a dipole can be tuned to resonance using a grid dip ocsillator.
this small device will put a signal into the dipole, in this case 42.854khz. the grid dip oscillator has a tuning capacitor on it that allows you to tune to the dipole. this will indicate if you have either to many or not enough windings on the dipole.
if the oscillator is set to 42.854khz exactly and the dipole is resonant the meter on the grid dip oscillator reads zero. this shows that there is no feedback or harmonics being returned. using this method you get maximum energy transfer.
a dipole of this size is dangerous especially at these frequencies. just 10wats into this dipole could cause stinging in the eyes and also rf burns.
1000watts could do major damage to a person. it must therefore be protected inside a faraday cage while switched on.
I agree with the above.
---
Ok...with transmitter induced LC resonance the voltage on the antenna is likely to be a whole
lot more than 12Vdc. More likely 250Vac as the voltage/current waveform rings in the LC as it
is being pumped up. It would be interesting to use a VSWR virtual standing wave ratio, meter
on the transducer. It would show how much power is being pumped back and forth vs how much
power is being absorbed into the water as a percentage of total power. The water probably
spits a lot of power back out as it vibrates ~ whatever component of the water that is doing
the vibrating.
So I don't think the 4.4 amps can be added to the to the other 12volt amperages. You really
need to add wattages but I realize how other HHO people calculate totally based in 12Vdc. The
thing is probably overunity in either case anyway.
:S:MarkSCoffman
i havnt done the math yet on the voltage of the wave produced peak to peak but it is probably very big.
on the vswr it is showing no reflected power back to the electronics powering the dipole.
the coil has been tuned to presicion and a lot of time has been spent to squeze ever last bit of power out of it. its tuning of the coil is spot on to the frequency required. the swr is spot on with no reflected power, so all the power goes to the dipole and is radiated.
when a radio wave such as this passes through an object it resonates at that frequency. the part of the molecule that is targeted is the covelant bond. this will be resonant to the frequency induced and will gradually resonate itself to distruction if given enough power.
the idea is that as the bond stretches it becomes weak the now weak bond requires less power to break it into its seperate atom by also inducing harmonics into the plates in the water the resonant frequency is strengthened.
i have further ideas that the temperature of the water will play a major part in this resonance feature. i have yet to experiment with this though as i am currently building a unit to set the temp of the water to be pumped through the cell.
the ultimate goal is that the cell becomes a unit that can vary its output simply by adjusting the input voltage. that way if more gas is required simply turn the dial, however i feel that there wil most definatly be an optimal setting.
Quote from: Hydro-Cell on November 30, 2008, 09:50:50 AM
please read previous posts, the maths do the talking the formula according to ohms law is
power in watts / ohms squared
1000 watts / 50 ohm output = 20
square root of 20 = 4.4
simple. the other way i know im getting 1000 watts to the load is that im using a 1200watt amplifier at near full power
In your first post you say:
"i have 1000watts of power going into this dipole. this consumes only 4.4 amps of power."
In a somewhat later post you say "all at 12 volts"
There is no way that you are getting 1000 watts of continuous RF power out of an amplifier or transmitter drawing 4.4 amps at 12 volts.
This is a remarkable claim and I'd like to see some justification for it.
You can wave all the math around that you want, but unless you show where your input numbers are coming from, it's just so much hand waving.
hi tinselkoala
ok here goes this is the setup....in this order...
12 volt car battery,...this powers the following
1 frequency generator and a 12volt amplifier @ 1200watts
so the frequency generator goes onto the amplifier and after the amplifier we have a matching transformer that goes from 8ohm impedance to 50ohm impedance.
after this we have a band pass filter with centre frequency of 43khz and 30khz bandwidth.
connected to the bandpass filter we have the dipole.
now since we have increased the impedance of the output to the amplifier this in turn takes load off the electronics and we also get full power transfer from the amplifier to the dipole. this power could be a peak to peak voltage in the hundreds of volts ac. but as far as i am concerned as you can tell by the description the system uses 12volts to drive itself.
it works in the same way as a car, your car works on 13.8 volts do you really care that it actually take 30,000 volts to get the plugs to spark???
you dont say "oh my car rns on 30,000 volts because it doesnt, the electronics etc convert the power.
the laws of thremodynamics are correct, energy cannot be made nor destroyed, only converted.
12volts in is 12volts in where else can the power come from?????
And when you hook an ammeter in series with the 12 volt power supply and the 1200 watt amplifier while it is running and powering the load, it is reading 4.4 amps. Am I understanding that right?
Thanks for the info Hydro-Cell. Sound like it is easy if you have the equipment. But it looks like a dangerous device to play with.
By close proximity, did you mean the water / electrolysis process is done inside the winding?
with just the dipole active yes this is correct. there is more power consumed by the other parts of the unit.
on its own the dipole does nothing, you see no effects on the water whatsoever.
there is about another 25 amps being used on electrolysis, and various other functions
Quote from: sucahyo on December 01, 2008, 04:10:41 AM
Thanks for the info Hydro-Cell. Sound like it is easy if you have the equipment. But it looks like a dangerous device to play with.
By close proximity, did you mean the water / electrolysis process is done inside the winding?
the process takes place aout 1 inch from the coil where the field is strongest
I see, thanks. I thought the strongest field is inside :-[.
BTW, have you seen borderland video about wave?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-721789270445596549
It would be interesting to use the capasitor/coil device in that video to get more gain.
Quote from: Hydro-Cell on December 01, 2008, 02:27:03 PM
with just the dipole active yes this is correct. there is more power consumed by the other parts of the unit.
on its own the dipole does nothing, you see no effects on the water whatsoever.
there is about another 25 amps being used on electrolysis, and various other functions
Okay, let me get this straight:
12vDC input @ 25A = 300w
Just dump that into a standard cell pulsed and WOW watch the HHO roll off ....
i doubt you would get anywhere near enough production as i am getting with 300watts direct into a cell.
im going to leave this here now as it seems tat noone really understands what it is that i am doing with this.
watch this space and the documents will be released soon
I am watching and waiting for the specs...! Scratching my head and sack, waiting for another project to attempt at replication
and dissection.... Please provide the exact specs of equipment and procedures you performed so we can get cracking on this unit.
A SECOND set of eyes and brains does help to improve system designs and increase efficiency in a system.
hi Newbie,
I have travelled the world looking at HHO devices. You do indead know more than most, in fact some of what you discusses would only be known by 3 or 4 people in the world.
I am a skeptic by nature, but there are things that you mention that only few know, or would have to know to get results like yours. Much of your maths add u re the ammount of hydroxy needed to run a small engine and the load it would be under.
Let me know if you wishto discuss this further, my email is markdansie@bigpond.com.au. I rather not discuss things in a forum so letme know by email if you need any resources.
Mark
correction ,
my email is markdansie@bigpond.com
Come on man save the planet, tell us all exactly how its done, lets seem some video of gas production with all the meters hooked up.
I have a few questions and suggestion for a low current HOD system that i am currently building... Unfortunately measure thrise cut once, so everything takes for ever on my experiments. But i thought that i would share some of my ideas as it may help some people here with their projects...
1. As i understand it requires X amount of energy to separate water. Now thinking a little out of the box can we get a portion of X from somewhere other than electricity. Steam requires less power to electrolize than liquid water (this is from my high school chem memories so correct me if i am wrong) but the electrical contact is harder. What about if the area where the reaction was to take place was pressureized a little. This would mean you should be able to get the water hotter (more energy from a heat source) without it turning into steam. Ofcourse collecting the gas produced gets harder but you get that.
2. Electrical efficientcy. - Instead of just charging electrodes would it be possible to calch some of that power into capacitors and then reuse it along other electrodes? like a chain power from one gets used in the next, until there is no power left to charge a capacitor that way your getting all of the work you can out off all the electricity you use?
3. Production Lag. For the eventual ability for a car to run on 100% generated hydrogen there would need to be a reserve or something so that when you put your foot down on the gas you don't get production lag...
4. Adgitation. - Movement of the water (preferably through a filter to clean out any impurities) if this can be coincided into the thermo-movement of water from suggestion 1. on the entranc side a "vortex" maybe produced. Which is another point that has been said to improve production.
My current test will be on pulsed coil electrodes into a chamber that is heated but is piped into a "cooling" area to create a water cycle. The thought is if i can moderate the temperature at a point where the reaction happens the easiest (i think this is the temperature right before water turns into steam) anad attempted to channel the current so as it enters it creates a sort of whirl pool effect in the chamber. But this is all theory and i am running 3 projects at once so it is going to take a long time to get this one going. That is why i am posting it here. There a people here with more time to work on this than me and the thought that combining all this may help someone crack it is worth me putting it up here.
On a separate point has anyone tried using some of the generated AC current from an alternator before it is turned into the DC current of your battery? what effect does AC current have on the process??? just a thought...
Looks like this crackpot never materialized any real documents, video evidence or diagrams. Just another scam?
Quote from: Paul-R on November 29, 2008, 09:47:04 AM
I think you will find this of value:
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter10.pdf
Don't forget that it is the basis of the Meyer and Boyce
systems that the voltage (rather than the current) that
does the business.
Paul.
I've looked at this file, and the diagrams seem 'flimzy'
It's not that easy to fabricate a hydrocell, the closest durable setup i've seen is the joe-cell and other similar physical cells. The stainless steel will corrode, there's no getting around it, the electricity destroys it.
You should be using carbon as the conductor, and less electrolyte. A base addative is going to drastically alter the conductance, and increase the amount of current flowing through it and thus going back to source.
I thought the point was to put as much energy into the breaking of the molecules as possible.
I can't seem to get anything that will create a cracking frequency of 42.8khz.. any suggestions.
Quote from: leeroyjenkinsii on September 06, 2009, 11:30:42 PM
Looks like this crackpot never materialized any real documents, video evidence or diagrams. Just another scam?
Funny stuff; I don't think anyone has created such a thing yet anyway - has anyone tried to take apart these fuel cells that are currently being used by automotive manufactureres - perhaps an inventive improvement is what's needed?