Hear the live report on the Rense show:
http://rense.gsradio.net:8080/rense/special/rense_Sameh_Habeeb_010509.mp3
This is said at 13:55 min in the file.
It is really sad to hear, what is going on there and
Israel premiere Olmert called Bush not to vote for the UN resolution
and Bush forbid
C. Rice to vote with Yes...
source:
http://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/israel496.html
So you see, how the USA is influenced ( controlled) by Israel.
So there will be cancer all over the Gaza Strip soon
from all the bomb smoke dust clouds.
Very sad.
If this is accurate .this would be a war crime
Chet
Quote from: ramset on January 12, 2009, 04:32:46 PM
If this is accurate .this would be a war crime
Chet
It should be, but unfortunately the use of depleted uranium in weapons is not prohibited like poison gas for instance. Undesirable as it is, it is considered a legitimate part of a nation's arsenal. Madness, if you ask me, but fact.
Hans von Lieven
Stefan,
Israel does not control the U.S.
The Christians in America do give the Jews in Israel enough rope to hang themselves.
It’s a Armageddon thing.
Even though both sides are nutty as hell and bent on destroying each other at it appears at any cost no matter what anyone outside asks or says, this would be a very bad blow to any type of agreement between those party's and would make a Arab rift across the world.
The depleted "Uranium" is usually used in a hardened projectile munitions for artillery or tanks to penetrate enemy tank or personnel carrier armor and bombs from jets are used as bunker busters or for deep earth building penetrations pretty nasty stuff to use in populated areas, mostly for no holds bared all out war.
This is something more credible witnesses from other news or government agency's need to verify, but it appears there is a physical news "black out" to European, American and Asian reporters in Gaza.
I could be wrong but I don’t think Israel worries about war crimes.
It’s only a war crime if you lose the war.
It’s not likely Israel will lose the war with the Palestinians.
@stefan
The people that have the money have to SAY.
The U.S. has no money.
The FED has the money.
The U.S. pays the FED
and therefore no power.
------------
I have so resume,
but do not know if- I have understood it well ...
Gustav
...
Uranium ?
No Problem !
In Iraq it was also used ....
it shown so : it will becomes now "usually"
Quote from: pese on January 12, 2009, 06:06:55 PM
The people that have the money have to SAY.
The U.S. has no money.
The FED has the money.
And who is the FED? Who controls it?================================================================
View from Palestine is very different from most news sources:
http://www.palestinechronicle.com/view_article_details.php?id=14650
================================================================
Very little support for Palestine in the US Senate:
http://www.palestinechronicle.com/view_article_details.php?id=14635
QuoteRep. Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) was a lone voice in the Congress expressing any kind of empathy for the plight of the Palestinians. In remarks from the floor of the House, he said:
"Wake up America. We have trillions for a war machine and the banks while our government stands by and sniffs at the slaughter of innocents in Gaza, where Israel is blocking aid for wounded Palestinians. Here’s today’s Washington Post. It says, ‘The International Committee of the Red Cross said Thursday that it found at least 15 bodies and several children emaciated but alive in a row of shattered houses in the Gaza Strip and accused the Israeli military of preventing ambulances from reaching the site for 4 days. 12 corpses lying on mattresses in one home, along with 4 young children lying next to their dead mothers.’ That’s a quote.
"Today, US tax dollars, US jets, and US helicopters provided to Israel are enabling the slaughter in Gaza. The administration enables Israel to press forward with the attack against defenseless civilians, blocks efforts at promoting a cease-fire at the UN, and refuses to make Israel compliant with conditions that arms shipments will not be used for aggression. Israel is going to receive $30 billion in a ten year period for military assistance, without having to abide by any humanitarian principles, international laws, or standards of basic human decency. Wake up America."
Grumpy
Thats pretty F**king disgusting 30 billion bucs to dirty bomb little kids [I know there is more to it than that]
Complete pack of assholes running the show
This will get much nastier
Chet
That dot Com is questionable.
Israel came about as the result of the Israelites defending themselves from war crimes, surely they know a thing or two about it.
Depleted uranium used on the gaze strip would mean radioactive fallout in Israel as well. This event is most likely not a thing that is based in fact or reality.
Depleted uranium is not radioactive. At all. That is why it is called depleted. It is used in armor piercing shells. I actually doubt they are using it because the opposition is not using armor.
Quote from: utilitarian on January 12, 2009, 11:33:43 PM
Depleted uranium is not radioactive. At all. That is why it is called depleted. It is used in armor piercing shells. I actually doubt they are using it because the opposition is not using armor.
bull shit, use your hallowed wiki before you post such crap, take a chemistry class...
"Depleted uranium (DU) is uranium primarily composed of the isotope uranium-238 (U-238). Natural uranium is about 99.27 percent U-238, 0.72 percent U-235, and 0.0055 percent U-234. U-235 is used for fission in nuclear reactors and nuclear weapons, natural uranium is enriched in U-235 by separating the isotopes by mass. The byproduct of enrichment, called depleted uranium or DU, contains less than one third as much U-235 and U-234 as natural uranium. Because U-234 accounts for about half the radioactivity of natural uranium, the external radiation dose from DU is about 60 percent of that from the same mass of natural uranium.
Depleted uranium munitions are controversial because of unanswered questions about potential long-term health effects. DU is less toxic than other heavy metals such as arsenic and mercury, and is only very weakly radioactive because of its long half-life.[4] While any radiation exposure has risks, no conclusive epidemiological data have correlated DU exposure to specific human health effects such as cancer.[5] However, studies using cultured cells and laboratory rodents continue to suggest the possibility of leukemogenic, genetic, reproductive, and neurological effects from chronic exposure.[6] In addition, the UK Pensions Appeal Tribunal Service in early 2004 attributed birth defect claims from a February 1991 Gulf War combat veteran to depleted uranium poisoning.[7][8] A 2005 epidemiology review concluded: "In aggregate the human epidemiological evidence is consistent with increased risk of birth defects in offspring of persons exposed to DU."[9]"
60% idiot
Quote from: WilbyInebriated on January 13, 2009, 01:16:14 AM
bull shit, use your hallowed wiki before you post such crap, take a chemistry class...
"Depleted uranium (DU) is uranium primarily composed of the isotope uranium-238 (U-238). Natural uranium is about 99.27 percent U-238, 0.72 percent U-235, and 0.0055 percent U-234. U-235 is used for fission in nuclear reactors and nuclear weapons, natural uranium is enriched in U-235 by separating the isotopes by mass. The byproduct of enrichment, called depleted uranium or DU, contains less than one third as much U-235 and U-234 as natural uranium. Because U-234 accounts for about half the radioactivity of natural uranium, the external radiation dose from DU is about 60 percent of that from the same mass of natural uranium.
Depleted uranium munitions are controversial because of unanswered questions about potential long-term health effects. DU is less toxic than other heavy metals such as arsenic and mercury, and is only very weakly radioactive because of its long half-life.[4] While any radiation exposure has risks, no conclusive epidemiological data have correlated DU exposure to specific human health effects such as cancer.[5] However, studies using cultured cells and laboratory rodents continue to suggest the possibility of leukemogenic, genetic, reproductive, and neurological effects from chronic exposure.[6] In addition, the UK Pensions Appeal Tribunal Service in early 2004 attributed birth defect claims from a February 1991 Gulf War combat veteran to depleted uranium poisoning.[7][8] A 2005 epidemiology review concluded: "In aggregate the human epidemiological evidence is consistent with increased risk of birth defects in offspring of persons exposed to DU."[9]"
60% idiot
I have machined depleted uranium parts for several military research applications and I am still here. As it is said above many heavy metals are far more dangerous. Depleted uranium is depleted..end of story. The drywall in your house has more radioactivity than this stuff. The damn mercury in these stupid cfls poses more of a danger to folks. Now, if Israel were dropping cfls over there, I would then be concerned. The misinformation about DU began years ago in the US press and it still goes on today.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on January 13, 2009, 02:18:23 AM
I have machined depleted uranium parts for several military research applications and I am still here. As it is said above many heavy metals are far more dangerous. Depleted uranium is depleted..end of story. The drywall in your house has more radioactivity than this stuff. The damn mercury in these stupid cfls poses more of a danger to folks. Now, if Israel were dropping cfls over there, I would then be concerned. The misinformation about DU began years ago in the US press and it still goes on today.
Bill
of course bill, you weren't breathing an aerosol... nor are you giving birth (i hope ;) )... i never said it would kill you did i?
http://www.ehjournal.net/content/4/1/17
and 60% is the low estimate, taking into account only the alpha emissions. what of its daughter isotopes? thorium -234 and protactinium -234? did you consider the beta and gamma emissions of these being added to the alpha emissions of the u -238? sure it has a half life of billions of years, but that is not what we are talking about, we are talking about du being pyrophoric and creating an aerosol when used as a projectile.
its NOT depleted, end of story.
edit: who needs to deal with all the global backlash of killing people when you can screw with their reproductive capabilities and in a generation or two or three there is no one left to oppose you...
G'day all,
I think we have a bit of a misunderstanding here.
Mildly radioactive substances may be completely harmless when handled. Take Tritium for instance, a form of hydrogen. Tritium oxide is a radioactive form of water. You could swim in it and it would do you no harm. Breathe the vapour or drink the shit and you die, just a question of how much you ingested and how long it'll take before you are dead.
The reason, there is not enough radioactivity present to penetrate the skin.
The same I should imagine with depleted Uranium. You could get away probably with eating it, it would pass through your system before it could do any real harm. Breathing in the particles is a different proposition altogether. Any dust you breathe in is not readily eliminated from the lungs, if at all. There has to be a hazard there.
I do not trust the re-assurances of governments when it comes to questions of their treasured weaponry. They had soldiers standing with their backs to an atmospheric atomic explosion in tests at Maralinga during the 50's and told them there was nothing harmful in this. Even at that time the Australian and British governments knew different.
So don't trust them when they say it is harmless. Remember Agent Orange?
Hans von Lieven
Quote from: hansvonlieven on January 13, 2009, 02:50:56 AM
G'day all,
I think we have a bit of a misunderstanding here.
Mildly radioactive substances may be completely harmless when handled. Take Tritium for instance, a form of hydrogen. Tritium oxide is a radioactive form of water. You could swim in it and it would do you no harm. Breathe the vapour or drink the shit and you die, just a question of how much you ingested and how long it'll take before you are dead.
The reason, there is not enough radioactivity present to penetrate the skin.
The same I should imagine with depleted Uranium. You could get away probably with eating it, it would pass through your system before it could do any real harm. Breathing in the particles is a different proposition altogether. Any dust you breathe in is not readily eliminated from the lungs, if at all. There has to be a hazard there.
I do not trust the re-assurances of governments when it comes to questions of their treasured weaponry. They had soldiers standing with their backs to an atmospheric atomic explosion in tests at Maralinga during the 50's and told them there was nothing harmful in this. Even at that time the Australian and British government knew different.
So don't trust when they say it is harmless. Remember Agent Orange?????
Hans von Lieven
thank you hans, for once we agree. :o i toast a beer to that
Depleted uranium is not classified as a dangerous substance radiologically, though it is a potential hazard in large quantities, beyond what could conceivably be breathed. Its emissions are very low, since the half-life of U-238 is the same as the age of the Earth (4.5 billion years). There are no reputable reports of cancer or other negative health effects from radiation exposure to ingested or inhaled natural or depleted uranium, despite much study.
However, uranium does have a chemical toxicity about the same as that of lead, so inhaled fume or ingested oxide is considered a health hazard. Most uranium actually absorbed into the body is excreted within days, the balance being laid down in bone and kidneys. Its biological effect is principally kidney damage. WHO has set a Tolerable Daily Intake level for U of 0.6 microgram/kg body weight, orally. (This is about eight times our normal background intake from natural sources.) Standards for drinking water and concentrations in air are set accordingly.
Like most radionuclides, it is not known as a carcinogen, or to cause birth defects (from effects in utero) or to cause genetic mutations. Radiation from DU munitions depends on how long since the uranium has been separated from the lighter isotopes so that its decay products start to build up. If thorium-234 (half-life 24 days), protactinium-234 (half-life 1 minute) and U-234 have built up through decay of U-238, then Th-234 and Pa-234 will give rise to some beta emissions and U-234 is an alpha emitter. On this basis, in a few months, DU is "weakly radioactive" with an activity of around 40 kBq/g quoted. (If it is fresh from the enrichment plant and hence fairly pure the activity is 15 kBq/g, compared with 25 kBq/g for pure natural uranium. Fresh DU from enriching reprocessed uranium has U-236 in it and more U-234 so is about 23 kBq/g.)
In 2001 the UN Environment Program examined the effects of nine tonnes of DU munitions having been used in Kosovo, checking the sites targeted by it. UNEP found no widespread contamination, no sign of contamination in water of the food chain and no correlation with reported ill-health in NATO peacekeepers. A two-year study by Sandia National Laboratories in USA reported in 2005 that consistent with earlier studies, reports of serious health risks from DU exposure during the 1991 Gulf War are not supported by medical statistics or by analysis.
Thus DU is clearly dangerous for people in vehicles which are military targets, but for anyone else - even in a war zone - there is little hazard. Ingestion or inhalation of uranium oxide dust resulting from the impact of DU munitions on their targets is the main possible exposure route.
Sources:
BNFL, Cogema, JNFL, SKB and ANSTO publications and papers.
Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, Nov-Dec 1999.
New Scientist 5 & 26/6/99, AFP 29/10/01.
UNEP/UNCHS, 1999, Balkans Task Force report, Appendix 4.
OECD NEA 2001, Management of Depleted Uranium.
Burchall & Clark, Depleted Uranium, NRPB Bulletin #229, March 2001.
Sandia report 2005
Potential Health Effects of Depleted Uranium in Munitions
Some military personnel involved in the 1991 Gulf War have complained of continuing stress-like symptoms for which no obvious cause has been found. These symptoms have at times been attributed to the use of depleted uranium in shells and other missiles, which are said to have caused toxic effects. Similar complaints have arisen from the more recent fighting in the Balkans, particularly the Kosovo conflict about a year ago.
Depleted uranium (DU) is natural uranium which is depleted in the rarer U-235 isotope (see below). It is a heavy metal and, in common with other heavy metals, it is chemically toxic. It is also slightly radioactive and there is therefore said to be a hypothetical possibility that it could give rise to a radiological hazard under some circumstances, e.g. if dispersed in finely divided form so that it is inhaled.
However, because of the latency period for the induction of cancer by radiation, it is not credible that any cases of radiation-induced cancer could yet be attributed to the Kosovo conflict. Furthermore, extensive studies have concluded that no radiological health hazard should be expected from exposure to depleted uranium.
The risk from external exposure is essentially zero, even when pure metal is handled. No detectable increases of cancer, leukaemia, birth defects or other negative health effects have ever been observed from radiation exposure to inhaled or ingested natural uranium concentrates, at levels far exceeding those likely in areas where DU munitions have been used. This is mainly because the low radioactivity per unit mass of uranium means that the mass needed for significant internal exposure would be virtually impossible to accumulate in the body - and DU is less than half as radioactive as natural uranium.
From National Radiation Protection Board (UK) Bulletin Editorial
Quote from: fuzzytomcat on January 13, 2009, 03:18:35 AM
Depleted uranium is not classified as a dangerous substance radiologically, though it is a potential hazard in large quantities, beyond what could conceivably be breathed. Its emissions are very low, since the half-life of U-238 is the same as the age of the Earth (4.5 billion years). There are no reputable reports of cancer or other negative health effects from radiation exposure to ingested or inhaled natural or depleted uranium, despite much study.
However, uranium does have a chemical toxicity about the same as that of lead, so inhaled fume or ingested oxide is considered a health hazard. Most uranium actually absorbed into the body is excreted within days, the balance being laid down in bone and kidneys. Its biological effect is principally kidney damage. WHO has set a Tolerable Daily Intake level for U of 0.6 microgram/kg body weight, orally. (This is about eight times our normal background intake from natural sources.) Standards for drinking water and concentrations in air are set accordingly.
Like most radionuclides, it is not known as a carcinogen, or to cause birth defects (from effects in utero) or to cause genetic mutations. Radiation from DU munitions depends on how long since the uranium has been separated from the lighter isotopes so that its decay products start to build up. If thorium-234 (half-life 24 days), protactinium-234 (half-life 1 minute) and U-234 have built up through decay of U-238, then Th-234 and Pa-234 will give rise to some beta emissions and U-234 is an alpha emitter. On this basis, in a few months, DU is "weakly radioactive" with an activity of around 40 kBq/g quoted. (If it is fresh from the enrichment plant and hence fairly pure the activity is 15 kBq/g, compared with 25 kBq/g for pure natural uranium. Fresh DU from enriching reprocessed uranium has U-236 in it and more U-234 so is about 23 kBq/g.)
In 2001 the UN Environment Program examined the effects of nine tonnes of DU munitions having been used in Kosovo, checking the sites targeted by it. UNEP found no widespread contamination, no sign of contamination in water of the food chain and no correlation with reported ill-health in NATO peacekeepers. A two-year study by Sandia National Laboratories in USA reported in 2005 that consistent with earlier studies, reports of serious health risks from DU exposure during the 1991 Gulf War are not supported by medical statistics or by analysis.
Thus DU is clearly dangerous for people in vehicles which are military targets, but for anyone else - even in a war zone - there is little hazard. Ingestion or inhalation of uranium oxide dust resulting from the impact of DU munitions on their targets is the main possible exposure route.
Sources:
BNFL, Cogema, JNFL, SKB and ANSTO publications and papers.
Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, Nov-Dec 1999.
New Scientist 5 & 26/6/99, AFP 29/10/01.
UNEP/UNCHS, 1999, Balkans Task Force report, Appendix 4.
OECD NEA 2001, Management of Depleted Uranium.
Burchall & Clark, Depleted Uranium, NRPB Bulletin #229, March 2001.
Sandia report 2005
Potential Health Effects of Depleted Uranium in Munitions
Some military personnel involved in the 1991 Gulf War have complained of continuing stress-like symptoms for which no obvious cause has been found. These symptoms have at times been attributed to the use of depleted uranium in shells and other missiles, which are said to have caused toxic effects. Similar complaints have arisen from the more recent fighting in the Balkans, particularly the Kosovo conflict about a year ago.
Depleted uranium (DU) is natural uranium which is depleted in the rarer U-235 isotope (see below). It is a heavy metal and, in common with other heavy metals, it is chemically toxic. It is also slightly radioactive and there is therefore said to be a hypothetical possibility that it could give rise to a radiological hazard under some circumstances, e.g. if dispersed in finely divided form so that it is inhaled.
However, because of the latency period for the induction of cancer by radiation, it is not credible that any cases of radiation-induced cancer could yet be attributed to the Kosovo conflict. Furthermore, extensive studies have concluded that no radiological health hazard should be expected from exposure to depleted uranium.
The risk from external exposure is essentially zero, even when pure metal is handled. No detectable increases of cancer, leukaemia, birth defects or other negative health effects have ever been observed from radiation exposure to inhaled or ingested natural uranium concentrates, at levels far exceeding those likely in areas where DU munitions have been used. This is mainly because the low radioactivity per unit mass of uranium means that the mass needed for significant internal exposure would be virtually impossible to accumulate in the body - and DU is less than half as radioactive as natural uranium.
From National Radiation Protection Board (UK) Bulletin Editorial
i seem to recall you saying on a thread here that you subscribe to the 'throw everything at it and see what sticks' method. so, lets throw everything (your life, ie: you get to be the guinea pig) at it. if i get my hands on some du, i can aerosol it for you and you can breathe it. i'm thinking we should do ALOT of it since it's virtually impossible to accumulate right? you shouldn't have any problem with that if you believe what you posted right?
maybe we can get bill to swipe some for us. i'll get to work on a delivery system, you just provide me your address fuzzy.
edit: all of that poking fun and 'put your money where your mouth is' aside, and regardless of half life and daughter isotopes, my point was that weakly radioactive DOES NOT EQUAL "Depleted uranium is not radioactive. At all." utilitarian is talking out his arse, and anyone who argues that weakly radioactive is synonymous with 'not at all' is an idiot. PERIOD
Quote from: WilbyInebriated on January 13, 2009, 04:05:59 AM
i seem to recall you saying on a thread here that you subscribe to the 'throw everything at it and see what sticks' method.
Hi WilbyInebriated,
You might read the post more carefully .... what I "subscribed" was some here at this forum such as the 9/11 threads the twin towers had bombs, aliens, jews, special forces, men in black, death rays what did I miss ... taking down two 100 story buildings 'throw everything at it and see what sticks' method. Proof where is the proof of these ...... what ever you want to call them ??
I've given you several sources of published information on the subject Depleted Uranium "NOT" taking any side in the matter only stating what facts I have found. If I'm missing any published credible facts please post them.
Other uses of Depleted Uranium are more mundane, where maximum mass must fit in minimum space, such as aircraft control surface and helicopter counterweights, yacht keels, etc, it is often well suited. Until the mid 1970s it was used in dental porcelains. In addition it is used for radiation shielding, being some five times more effective than lead in this role.
You can also "DIE" from drinking 3 gallons of fresh water in a 24 hour period two days in a row .... is water a killer ??
Sorry if I offended you, but please read my posts a little closer or ask me to clarify what I posted ;)
Fuzzy
Quote from: fuzzytomcat on January 13, 2009, 04:54:49 AM
Hi WilbyInebriated,
You might read the post more carefully .... what I "subscribed" was some here at this forum such as the 9/11 threads the twin towers had bombs, aliens, jews, special forces, men in black, death rays what did I miss ... taking down two 100 story buildings 'throw everything at it and see what sticks' method. Proof where is the proof of these ...... what ever you want to call them ??
I've given you several sources of published information on the subject Depleted Uranium "NOT" taking any side in the matter only stating what facts I have found. If I'm missing any published credible facts please post them.
Other uses of Depleted Uranium are more mundane, where maximum mass must fit in minimum space, such as aircraft control surface and helicopter counterweights, yacht keels, etc, it is often well suited. Until the mid 1970s it was used in dental porcelains. In addition it is used for radiation shielding, being some five times more effective than lead in this role.
You can also "DIE" from drinking 3 gallons of fresh water in a 24 hour period two days in a row .... is water a killer ??
Sorry if I offended you, but please read my posts a little closer or ask me to clarify what I posted ;)
Fuzzy
i read it carefully. so you don't subscribe to that policy in this case?
i gave you a source, did you read it? all of it? and the sources it cited?
very small excerpt from the source i posted.
"With a few exceptions, it is only since the late 1980s that uranium's reproductive toxicity has been studied using animal models. Most of the past 15 years of published research on the topic comes from two groups, Domingo, and others working at the University of Barcelona in Spain and McClain, Benson, Miller, Pellmar and others affiliated with the Armed Forces Radiobiology Research Institute (AFRRI) in the United States [15-17]. With at least 6 published studies on topic, Domingo et al. have demonstrated that both oral and subcutaneous administration of UO2++ to female mice engender decreased fertility, embryonic and fetal toxicity including reduced growth and malformations (cleft palate and skeletal defects) and developmental ossification variations. From their maternal animal exposure studies the members of Domingo's group concluded that it was chemical toxicity, not radiation that resulted in teratogenicity [15,18-22]. The chemical reproductive toxicity of DU could act at the molecular level (damaging DNA and RNA), at the cellular level, and/or at the organ level, affecting organs including the testes, placenta, and embryo/fetus.
Two studies of orally dosed male rats that were conducted decades earlier demonstrated substantial degeneration of testes and impact on germ cells; another more recent study provided some similar evidence [21,23,24]. Very recent research suggests that uranium mimics estrogen in mice [25].
The AFRRI studies were funded in 1994 by the military in order to investigate the toxicity of embedded DU fragments [26]. These studies, using a rat model, have demonstrated that DU pellets embedded in male rats led to elevated uranium concentrations in the testes, and that pellets embedded in females led to detectable uranium in the placenta and to "very low levels" of its accumulation in the fetus, though there was no "overt" teratology. There is preliminary evidence of delayed reproductive impact of embedded DU among female rats; the probability of decreased litter size increased in proportion to time since embedding. Several rat studies by the AFRRI group have shown that embedded DU pellets are mutagenic [16,26,27]. In their human studies, McDiarmid et al. found "subtle perturbations" in indices of reproductive health among their shrapnel-exposed human subjects [28].
A Chinese study of reproductive toxicity of enriched uranium noted damage to genetic material, dominant lethality and skeletal abnormalities in fetal rats. Chromosome aberrations in spermatogonia, DNA alterations in spermatocytes and strand breakage in sperm were specifically notified [29]. In vitro experiments documented extensive DNA damage when UO2++ was added to DNA in the presence of an electron donor. Since DNA is particularly dense in sperm-forming cells, such cells may be especially susceptible to UO2++-derived damage. In sum, aerosolized DU is a vehicle for internal delivery of a DNA-tropic substance that is both a heavy metal and an alpha particle emitter."
i'm not 'taking sides' or stating any facts either, other than 'weakly radioactive' DOES NOT EQUAL 'not at all'. are you suggesting that it does?
i'm well aware of the other uses, however we are talking about projectiles that ARE pyrophoric...
yes it would be a killer in that case, are you suggesting it is not?
you didn't offend me, so no worries. take your own advice and read others posts a little closer including the references, etc.
@WilbyInebriated
I'm not sure in this case .... like agent orange "paraquat" over 12 years I used it on my grandpas farm spraying 1000's of gallons of it for weed control in grass seed fields... no mask got it over me all the time everybody did my grandpa died at 92 years old I'm fine go figure.
The Wiki information is a good read with accurate information still incomplete ... but than again one needs credible people and who can one trust with what findings that transpire. To many questions and never the right answers or the ones you want.
The water was kinda a "meta fore" there are more dangerous things under my kitchen sink that are much worse.
Fuzzy
:)
glad to hear you're ok. many were not so lucky.
heres the source i posted, since you must have missed it. this is a guess cause you are only referring to the wiki.
http://www.ehjournal.net/content/4/1/17
i'm assuming you aren't going to argue that 'weakly radioactive' is synonymous with 'not at all' since you didn't address that question.
great, we are in agreement on that at least.
Quote from: WilbyInebriated on January 13, 2009, 05:57:57 AM
heres the source i posted, since you must have missed it. this is a guess cause you are only referring to the wiki.
http://www.ehjournal.net/content/4/1/17
Ok, you got me on this one but it's more than I can read at 3:19 am ......... I will read this though, it appears to be quite informative and get back to you never heard of this organization before ... thanks !
When you machine DU which is one of, if not the most dense materials known to man, you need to use diamond tooling. When you use diamond tooling in a machining process, very very fine particles are produced. These are of microscopic size. The coolant in the process control most of this, but not all. Now, maybe I will be dead next year, but I did this work about 20 years ago and I am still here.
Water can kill you if ingested in very high quantities or breathed. So, when dealing with any substance, they always speak of levels of exposure when it comes to toxicity.
As someone else mentioned, the only thing DU is used for is for piercing armor plates or bunker busting deep underground. Neither of these applications are required as far as I know in this conflict. There have been so many photo shopped pictures published by Hamas that are quickly picked up by CNN and the rest of the non-thinking media without fact checking that I find it very unbelievable that DU is even in play in that theater over there. There is no reason for it. If someone wanted to employ "forced birth control" as mentioned, there are much better, easier, more effective and cheaper methods available.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on January 13, 2009, 11:25:56 AM
When you machine DU which is one of, if not the most dense materials known to man, you need to use diamond tooling. When you use diamond tooling in a machining process, very very fine particles are produced. These are of microscopic size. The coolant in the process control most of this, but not all. Now, maybe I will be dead next year, but I did this work about 20 years ago and I am still here.
i used to program cnc machines so i am pretty familiar with such processes... microscopic is rather broad, were the particles smaller than 5µm? if so how did you measure them? how much aerosol was produced when you tooled this du you reference? how did you measure that? was it a larger (levels of exposure right?) quantity than an exploding du warhead?
are you suggesting your machining experience trumps a peer reviewed epidemiological study with over 70 references?
Quote from: Pirate88179 on January 13, 2009, 11:25:56 AMWater can kill you if ingested in very high quantities or breathed. So, when dealing with any substance, they always speak of levels of exposure when it comes to toxicity.
no argument there.
Quote from: Pirate88179 on January 13, 2009, 11:25:56 AMAs someone else mentioned, the only thing DU is used for is for piercing armor plates or bunker busting deep underground. Neither of these applications are required as far as I know in this conflict. There have been so many photo shopped pictures published by Hamas that are quickly picked up by CNN and the rest of the non-thinking media without fact checking that I find it very unbelievable that DU is even in play in that theater over there. There is no reason for it. If someone wanted to employ "forced birth control" as mentioned, there are much better, easier, more effective and cheaper methods available.
Bill
i'm interested in how you think one would effect or employ "forced birth control" against an opposing force, care to elucidate?
@ Wilby:
I can't quantify the exact size of the particles as we were not concerned with it. I do know that the same machining methods when used to machine beryllium oxide will kill you if you do not use a totally contained machine and breathing devices so I assume it makes particles small enough to get into your lung tissues. A warhead I imagine, has a lot of material so, yes, you are correct in that probably all of the small parts I machined would not be enough to make one warhead tip. (We dealt in very small parts)
pennyroyal will prevent animals (mammals) from being able to reproduce (it makes the females miscarry) so again, I assume, that a similar substance would have a similar effect on humans. (I know, a lot of assumptions in my answers)
I just remember during Desert Storm a reporter was walking by an aircraft that was carrying a DU tipped missile and when he was told that, he became suddenly very ill and was rushed to a hospital where he was "treated and released". The later reports made this stuff sound worse than Plutonium. The guy was over 10 feet away from the plane and was there for only a few seconds. Ever since, I have noticed the press jumping all over this stuff in their reports when there are much more dangerous things used in warfare. Heck, bullets are made of lead right? Don't tell the reporters that our soldiers fire heavy metal projectiles at other humans, we will never hear the end of it.
Anyway, we can agree to disagree. Thanks.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on January 13, 2009, 12:21:35 PM
@ Wilby:
I can't quantify the exact size of the particles as we were not concerned with it. I do know that the same machining methods when used to machine beryllium oxide will kill you if you do not use a totally contained machine and breathing devices so I assume it makes particles small enough to get into your lung tissues. A warhead I imagine, has a lot of material so, yes, you are correct in that probably all of the small parts I machined would not be enough to make one warhead tip. (We dealt in very small parts)
beryllium oxide is a totally different thing and irrelevant to this context.
Quote from: Pirate88179 on January 13, 2009, 12:21:35 PMpennyroyal will prevent animals (mammals) from being able to reproduce (it makes the females miscarry) so again, I assume, that a similar substance would have a similar effect on humans. (I know, a lot of assumptions in my answers)
not quite sure what you are getting at here? is this your elucidation of how to "force birth control" on an opposing force?
Quote from: Pirate88179 on January 13, 2009, 12:21:35 PMI just remember during Desert Storm a reporter was walking by an aircraft that was carrying a DU tipped missile and when he was told that, he became suddenly very ill and was rushed to a hospital where he was "treated and released". The later reports made this stuff sound worse than Plutonium. The guy was over 10 feet away from the plane and was there for only a few seconds. Ever since, I have noticed the press jumping all over this stuff in their reports when there are much more dangerous things used in warfare. Heck, bullets are made of lead right? Don't tell the reporters that our soldiers fire heavy metal projectiles at other humans, we will never hear the end of it.
Anyway, we can agree to disagree. Thanks.
Bill
sure i won't argue that people "freak" when they hear uranium or radioactive, how then do explain these statements from the study i posted a link to?
"Still, large quantities of DU and/or radioactive decay products and other radioactive impurities can lead to substantial external exposure. A Geiger counter measurement by a correspondent in the recent Iraq war show that radiation emitting from a DU bullet fragment registered nearly 1000 â€" 1900 times the normal background radiation level. A three-foot long DU fragment from a 12 mm tank shell registered radiation 1300 times the background level. A DU tank found by the U.S Army radiological team emitted 260 â€" 270 millirads of radiation per hour compared to the safety limit of 100 millirads per year. A pile of jet-black dust registered a count of 9839 emissions in one minute, a level more than 300 times the average background level [6]."
@ WilbyInebriated
I read the article that you referenced http://www.ehjournal.net/content/4/1/17 ...... very provocative information some of which should be discarded ... mailed out questions with responses really have no scientific proof or viability in study's and doctors that are citizens of war zones with data, that needs the most scrutiny of all. The article "acknowledgments" Sunny Miller, executive director of Traprock Peace Center of Deerfield, MA and staff could have alternative agendas which leaves some other portions of the article questionable .... I'll go 40% + %60 - in article content.
I do agree that types of spray, mist, aerosol and vapor have different micron sizes and at a certain sizes pathogens can be inhaled or absorbed easily into ones system. A good example is agent orange or "paraquat" in a spray being used less than 4 feet from the ground compared the release from a plane 100 feet off the ground at 100 MPH it creates different micron sizes some more easily physically absorbed and ambient temperature with humidity could also factor in. This could explain why people like me that used "paraquat" have no effects but around plane spraying people got sick.
Being this type of munition is more expensive, and not used normally "willy nilly" in conventional wars only really for special applications at this point, is a good thing until more is known about "DU".
There are many "hidden" and unknown dangers out there some of which can be regulated and controlled some may never be, this I know first hand having lived thru many bad situations unscathed, only as a contractor being unknowingly exposed in several homes that were at one time illegal meth labs ....
A cuppla thoughts...
I heard of DU having an impact on the next generations.
When trying to decide whether something is harmful or not...its always a much safer bet to believe the opposite of what "governments" tell you.
It is the rich white sociopaths that pull the strings of all nations.
Watch the puppeteers...and not the puppets.
Regards...
It is never those who grant status of harmful or not that go to fight it off.
DU used in the first Gulf war is doing ravages in the Iraqi population and amongst the vets. Birth deformations, leukemia, cancer and Gulf war syndrome to name just a few. Those who say that DU is not harmful should go get a wake up call, mix in with the vets and see how they feel about it. It is deem safe by those who don't want to cover the staggering medical fees to those affected by it.
Wake up people, they have a history of lying and they are not going to stop.
Take care and stay away from DU,
Michel
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Live Gaza border webcams.
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Quote from: brian334 on January 12, 2009, 05:45:00 PM
I could be wrong but I don’t think Israel worries about war crimes.
It’s only a war crime if you lose the war.
It’s not likely Israel will lose the war with the Palestinians.
That Statement is correct but they will not win the War against Iran even with the obvious Help from their Brother U.S.A., no one will win WW3.The depleted Uranium supplied by the U.S.A. was also used in Iraq.
Its no different than a Dirty Nuke but as long as it is not used against Israel or the U.S.A. it is permissible.
If the use of Gas and chemical or biological warfare is forbidden, Who makes the decision of differentiation?
Those that are in Control,and who are they?
I better not say any more or this Thread will be closed because of those that feel exposed and therefore construe it as usual to be hate.
A word that has been given the ultimate Power to silence anyone that opposes their agenda.
professor
Its really all about simple business maintenance.
The manufacture and selling of weapons...to kill the mass numbers of people...who they have openly talked about getting rid of in their discussions on 'population reduction'...and keeping that cycle going.
All the rest is window dressing.
Regards...
_
Quote from: professor on January 16, 2009, 05:05:26 PM
That Statement is correct but they will not win the War against Iran even with the obvious Help from their Brother U.S.A., no one will win WW3.The depleted Uranium supplied by the U.S.A. was also used in Iraq.
Its no different than a Dirty Nuke but as long as it is not used against Israel or the U.S.A. it is permissible.
If the use of Gas and chemical or biological warfare is forbidden, Who makes the decision of differentiation?
Those that are in Control,and who are they?
I better not say any more or this Thread will be closed because of those that feel exposed and therefore construe it as usual to be hate.
A word that has been given the ultimate Power to silence anyone that opposes their agenda.
professor
come'on the thread that has been closed really had to be
dont let all of this make you paranoid
stefan is no other than you or me, why would he open a overunity forum in the first place? to close threads?
Its even his thread and as long as nobody hijacks it it wont be closed
I stumble upon these things more often nowadays - people dont know whom to trust
we should lay back and chill to save our power for the real thing :-\
I've been 'censored' on a blog for using rude language (Israel-wise) - i'm ok with it because the blogger told me that his blog is 'watched' and he wants to keep it up - why should i turn mad about this?
calm down - you'll have your chance - you paranoid (i wrote that with a smile ;) )
there are no rules when it comes to war, it's either kill or be killed by all means necessary! who gives a fuck if innocent women and children die right? i know it's fucked up but it's how it is so deal with it. sad isn't it? so it's either we start a revolution or get fucked by the NWO controlled by these fucken evil pieces of shit! so wake the fuck up or get smacked the fuck up until you die! or be a slave? you decide.
oh and stop using MS Windows you're only helping the NWO happen even faster! what you think Bill Gates is for the people? HA! think again!
use linux or any other open source systems, for the people by the people!
WW3 and beyond will be white hats Vs black hats choose your side and join the revolution! see you at the finish line! and for those gray hats...you won't have a chance either!
peace
Hartiberlin,
People that use nasty language should be kicked out of this forum,
People that want to debate current events should not.
Quote from: reada on January 16, 2009, 05:30:35 PM
come'on the thread that has been closed really had to be
dont let all of this make you paranoid
stefan is no other than you or me, why would he open a overunity forum in the first place? to close threads?
Its even his thread and as long as nobody hijacks it it wont be closed
I stumble upon these things more often nowadays - people dont know whom to trust
we should lay back and chill to save our power for the real thing :-\
I've been 'censored' on a blog for using rude language (Israel-wise) - i'm ok with it because the blogger told me that his blog is 'watched' and he wants to keep it up - why should i turn mad about this?
calm down - you'll have your chance - you paranoid (i wrote that with a smile ;) )
I am not mad about the closure maybe paranoid for good reasons.
I am sure that stefan was pressured to do so I hold no grudge, why should I.
It just makes a mockery of free speech if there ever was such thing
It is hard to calm down when innocent Women and children get slaughtered
even if they believe in a different god as myself.
I remember the 10 Commandments ,the question is does anyone else even care?
professor
Yes, you should care. Hamas has been killing innocent Israeli women and children for a long time now and it is about time that they retaliated. I do not blame them at all.
Bill
professor, i care, more than 90 % of the world care, otherwise humankind would by now be a joke in the extraterestrial historybooks
and by the way i'm mad as hell too about the zionist attacks - does it help? i make movies to let people KNOW what really happens. If i would do a movie with all this hate i feel in it nobody would care to watch it. Got it?
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/532.html
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/534.html
Modyfied 18.jan:
Most of us... are only "spectators"
so we understand (first) only parts of the "true"
decades of years later.
If you see back in the past as: 911 WW2 and history
you will find, you change the mind, because
the time will discover most , so that comes to
the light of the sun ...
GP
Hey Gustav,
From all I've seen and read its evident that those at the very top giving the orders to kill are not Israeli's in the true sense.
They masquerade as Israeli's...but in reality they are members of an exclusive cabal of rich criminally insane inbreds in the war/mass murder business.
Many of them can be found at the Bohemian Grove worshiping at the feet of a huge wooden owl.
All this 'nation' stuff is all contrived keep people in a mental coral...and their focus away from the game of manipulation they are caught up in.
None of it is real...unless you play along.
Regards...
Quote from: pese on January 17, 2009, 06:01:21 PM
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/532.html
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/534.html
Hi Gustav
A picture or a Video clip is worth a thousand words which can be twisted any which way.
No more needs to be said the proof is in the puddn.
professor
Here is a good example. Israel initiated a cease-fire which lasted 8 hours until Hamas began, once again, (tonight) firing rockets into Israel's civilian neighborhoods. Everyone has a right to defend themselves. Enough said.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on January 18, 2009, 04:04:37 AM
Here is a good example. Israel initiated a cease-fire which lasted 8 hours until Hamas began, once again, (tonight) firing rockets into Israel's civilian neighborhoods. Everyone has a right to defend themselves. Enough said.
Bill
Bill
Politics are very dirti buisnes.
One can not be shure,that the rockets are fired by palestinians.
They might be fired by israeli agends to keep the war going.
It is not known now, that they even start the war by such a action.
Thanks to Gustav for the link
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/534.html (http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/534.html)
helmut
Like I keep saying..its not about anything but...
- war for profit
- mass murder for depopulation.
They have openly discussed depopulation...what do you think this is ?
The names, the issues, and religious turf, are all interchangeable.
Regards...